Best Paradox grand strategy game for beginner?

[Jay the Byzantine]

I've never played any of the Paradox GS titles like CK2 or EU or Hearts of Iron. Considering that and that I have to learn the game systems from scratch, what would be the best GS title to get me started? I'm currently looking into getting something older, and EU3 during the Christmas sale seems like a good deal, since I don't know how much I'll be able to invest in the future and seems there aren't many DLCs. Also, I want to get a game that's considered to be the best / good example of the series; ie not dumbed down like R2TW vs. RTW. So which game would you guys recommend?

Thanks for the help guys, have a great weekend!

[herne_the _hunter]

I was going to say go with the time period that interests you but I think you've answered that yourself. EU3 is a good place to start as it's a good game.

Worth remembering that EU3 Complete doesn't include all the dlc as it's missing the expansions Heir To The Throne and Divine Wind. Of course with all the exspansions it feels differrent than just the free demo.

Also check out For The Glory which is essentially EU2 with the AGCEEP mod included. It's relatively less freeform than EU3 as being more historically focused. It looks graphically dated in comparison but when it goes on sale you would be hard pressed to get a cup of coffee and a sticky bun for the same amount.

Shame you couldn't stretch to EU4 and Art of War (which is the only dlc you need) and possibily Common Sense (you only need that if playing a non european nation) But EU3 makes a good alternative.

[Jay the Byzantine]

Thanks for the info and recommendations! My budget for this sale is quite limited so getting EU4 is less of a priority as opposed to getting a more ''complete'' package; and I also don't want to spend so much on a series that I may not mesh with.

Would you say that those two expansions are the only essential ones to make the game mechanically complete?

Thanks again for your recommendation of the other game BTW. It was on my wishlist (as are most games) but I wasn't considering it for this sale until now. I checked it out and it piqued my interest instantly.

Would you say FtG at its low price and no expansions is comparable to EU3 with the essential expansions? Graphics don't mean much to me, especially in strategy games so that is not an issue.

[Basil II the B.S]

Probably CK2. It's the most overwhelming in terms of initial impact, but it's actually the easiest of the group. Losing in EU3-4 is actually not uncommon, while managing your economy in CK2 is mostly automatic.
All games require 100+ hours of play to learn at a decent level anyway. I'm not ting you. The fact is that most of them have 5-6 addons and each one of them adds important features you have to learn. Don't let this discourage you, they are great games.

[empr guy]

I would say Art of War is the one "necessary" DLC for EU4, Common Sense is also good but I've been enjoying the game plenty without it. A lot of the other DLC's add some flavor but only to specific areas, like if you don't play republics a lot then Res Publica isn't going to be worth the buy.

And I'm throwing my vote in for EU, imho HoI lacks the same level of replayability because it's WWII from a hundred different angles, and the family politics of CKII don't appeal to me as much as the military/country focus of the EU games.

[Jay the Byzantine]

@ Basil : I'm actually looking for the most complex game / a very complex one for the price to learn all the fine details. I'm shying away from CK2 and EU4 because they're expensive and I won't be able to get the expansions on my budget.

@empr : would you recommend EU3 with the 2 main expansions?

[Basil II the B.S]

@ Basil : I'm actually looking for the most complex game / a very complex one for the price to learn all the fine details. I'm shying away from CK2 and EU4 because they're expensive and I won't be able to get the expansions on my budget.

@empr : would you recommend EU3 with the 2 main expansions?

Then go for EU3.
Complexity wise, as I said, even after 100+ hours you'll still be learning new stuff. It's still a good game even if a bit outdated.

That being said, what's your favourite historical timeframe? I'd take that into account too.
CK2 is mainly second half of the Middle Ages, hence the dynastic focus makes sense more than a ''nation'' focus like in EU3/4.

[herne_the _hunter]

EU3 with all the expansions is good but...

I would go with FTG it's a good game and it ticks all your boxs

Here's a thought if you find you like it you can start looking at Crusader kings 1 (yes the first one) as you can import your gave save in to FTG and export to Victoria Revolutions (Victoria 1 with the Under the Sun Expansion) export into Hearts of Iron 2. With these four games you can start from 1066 and then play on until 1964 if you so wish.
I play with Victoria into Hearts of Iron 2 as that's more managable time wise.
Those four games will work out cheaper than just regular EU4 on it's own. That's with them all on sale. It's not because they are cheap or not complex; no it's because they are good games that were made when expansions were expansions and not dlc

Second thought...
Why do you think some people play Darkest Hour instead of HOI4?

[Jay the Byzantine]

I don't hate any time period particularly, but want my first purchase to be from the medieval / colonial era. Currently I'm leaning EU3 or FtG.

The continuance certainly seems very interesting, but I doubt I'll live long in any of the four games. Its something I'll eventually have to do though, so thanks for planting that bug in my head I read on the steampage that CK1 isn't quite refined / is buggy. Since I'm learning the cause and effect of everything for the first time, I want something that's as not-buggy as possible, so I understand the systems first. I can maybe get FtG now and get the rest for the complete playthrough as I learn. But currently, CK1 seems like a bad choice to me.

[PikeStance]

I think any Paradox game will be complex and daunting to play at first. It depends what your aptitude is. If you understand economics, the Vic 2 is best game. If you want more of a military emphasis, then HOI3 or 4 will do. If you like interpersonal relationships, then CK 1 or 2. EU is a little bit of everything.

[Petrucci]

You can get base EU4 for like 9$, art of war for 7$ and most likely all other dlcs for like 50$ in total so don't waste your time with old titles like eu3 and Vicky 1 and 2 when EU4 is the best game ever made by paradox Period.

[Jay the Byzantine]

I have $30 at most for the entire sale.

[empr guy]

yeah that's the part about paradox games, endless DLC even if they aren't all necessary for EU4, common sense and art of war make the game complete. EU3 i'd go ahead and get both expansions. It's hard for me to say which is "better" since they play so differently now and EU4 is going to keep getting updates for years probably.

I don't think either one is a "wrong" choice since they're both good, but EU3 might be better considering that if you play mods, the EU4 ones get broken every patch, and 99% of the EU4 guides I find online are either for out of date versions or written for all DLC enabled which makes them useless to me.

[Jay the Byzantine]

Got EU3 complete for Rs.169 (approx >$3) and will begin learning it! Thanks all for the advice and have a great new year!

[Prodromos]

They're map painting simulators. Whether you're playing EU, CK, Victoria or any of the others, you basically pick a color (country) and paint the map with it.

But I recommend EU3. It's a bit outdated, but a good introduction to the genre. It's also better than the 4th game in a few ways. It's a shame you got Complete. The name is misleading. That version doesn't include all the DLC; Chronicles does.

Anyway you'll still like it, probably. But be warned: you will probably ragequit the first time you play. Trying to load troops onto transport ships is what did it for me, personally. So I highly recommend the Wiki. Anything you don't understand will be explained there.

EDIT: For a first game, you should probably play as England. It is very good for beginners.

[ikyu828]

victoria 2 is quite fun too and very cheap during steam sale
it has industrial, colonial and the population system

but if you have the money definitely eu 4 or ck 2