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Thread: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

  1. #1

    Default [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    Hello people,

    I have recently finished the first step in creating a little submod that I have made mostly for my own amusement.
    The main goal of this submod, as the name implies, is to make the faction rosters of the factions I am playing with historical, or as close to that as possible.
    I have found the current situation of DeI in that regard is very much lacking, so I have undergone through creating this.

    While doing this, I have mostly concentrated to use the existing units of DeI in a way that would make them more historical, while plugging any "gaps" that were made by removal of units (and removals there were...)
    There are currently no new units added with this submod, and although I do plan to add some with time, it will probably take a long time before that happens, as I have a very rudimentary knowledge of that part of TW modding.


    So without further ado, here is the submod:

    https://sabercathost.com/1D0o/@@@@hi...nits_pack.pack

    A BIG disclaimer:

    This submod is a WIP.
    God knows when it will be finished, or will it ever be finished. I plan to keep working on it as I play the game, and find stuff that really needs tweaking.

    The current version of the mod features a redone roster for Carthage only (as that is the faction I have been playing the most, and for which I did fairly extensive research).
    Other factions will come with time, but it will take time.

    Also, the current version of the mod is bundled with the submod that translates most of the unit names into English. I might do a separate version later on, but atm, I have no time for doing that.

    I would like to thank, and give credit, to the wonderful modders of the DeI team, and all other people who have took part in creating the content I have further modified here. Without them and their effort this game wouldn`t be worth playing.

    Changelog:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    v. 1.0.
    -Redone roster for Carthage.

    -Removed the following units:
    Libyan Pikemen (Early/Late)
    Liby-Phoenician Pikemen (Early/Late)
    Carthaginian Hoplites (Early/Late)

    -Renamed a few units:
    Elite Liby-Phoenician Infantry->Elite African Infantry
    Carthaginian Infantry->African Infantry

    -Libyan Hoplites buffed, and moved a "tier" higher, now tied to basic barracks.
    -Libyan Infantry buffed, and moved to tier 2+ barracks.
    -Carthaginian Citizen Militia buffed. Now supposed to take the role of Libyan Hoplites.

    -Fixed the non-sensical descriptions of certain units (Libyan Hoplites, Libyan Infantry etc.)

    Probably some other stuff I forgot.


    Installation:

    Same as with any other submod. Drop into your "data" folder in your Rome 2 directory, then enable it in the Mod Manager (it should be in front/above other mods by default).
    Last edited by popovic; December 09, 2016 at 02:30 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    Feel free to discuss this here. If anyone is interested, I will write down why exactly did I change this or that.
    I considered writing it all down in the OP, but I figured that would make a mess out of it.

    Also, take note, that even for Carthage there are still further changes that I feel I really need to add.
    Like, for instance, their factional mercs roster. Currently, they have neither Balearic Slingers there, nor Numidian Light Cavalry. While both of those were pretty much standard in the armies of Carthage.

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    Some of your ideas from that thread awhile back will be in 1.2, btw - like pike changes and some roster reorganizations. I like the idea of some of these Carthage changes, they are in need of some tweaks.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    Ok guys (and gals)...

    After taking a rather long hiatus from strategy games in general (and thus from DeI), I started playing 1.2, and as usual, felt the need to tweak a few things.

    Let me just point out that I absolutely LOVE what the DeI team did with 1.2, and that I feel that the team is headed in the right direction, but as always, there is always room for improvement (or tweaking stuff to one`s liking ).

    As is usual for me, I started with Carthage (again). In 1.2 Carthage roster is considerably improved over 1.1, but there are still a few things that irked me enough to make me do this mini-mod before I actually start playing them.

    So, this is the very basic submod I came up with: https://sabercathost.com/4Jjp/@@@Mor..._Carthage.pack

    Take note, this is a "quick and dirty" version. I intend to keep working on this, and with time do a much more in-depth mod, that will feature among other things 1 or 2 new units for Carthage, and a new, faction specific building chain for Carthage.

    As for the changes in this mini-submod I posted, they are as follows:

    -Redid the Carthaginian faction mercenary pool. For some reason, Carthage had neither Balearic slingers as faction mercs, or Numidian cavalry (even though they were both extensively used IRL, and even though they have a bunch of other units, some of them historically doubtable). So, I:
    --added Balearic Slingers and Numidian Cavarly to their faction roster. In order to balance it somewhat, I removed Liby-Phoenician Hoplites from it, and I believe
    Mercenary Libyan Infantry. Also, I left the cap for them at 2, and lowered the replenishment chance slightly (again, trying to make it balanced).
    --Liby-Phoenician hoplites were removed from the region roster of Africa as well (ahistorical, there is no evidence these troops were ever used as anything except
    cavalry).

    -Removed Carhaginian hoplites (they will make a comeback, I just need to figure out how to implement them.

    -Removed Carthaginian infantry (100% ahistorical). I understand why it is in the mod, and I intend to redo the roster, and implement something more historical, while keeping it with a function similar to this unit. But more on that later on.

    -Changed the names of the starting generals and faction leaders to both something close to history (though not fully historical, I couldn`t find info on the members/leaders of most the featured families at the exact start of DeI timeline).

    -Changed some of the names for Carhaginian characters in general. Either CA had MUCH better sources than me, or half of those names aren`t even Carthaginian/Phoenician.
    As they were, they were a HUGE immersion breaker for me so I re-did them a bit.

    -Changed the campaign map appearence of starting Carthaginian diplomat. Changed it to Eastern look (rather than Greek).


    There are probably a few things that I changed here and there. Basically, I was just going around and changing things that really broke immersion for me.

    Let me just add that this is probably best used when you yourself are playing as Carthage. It will probably make the AI somewhat weaker when playing as that faction.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    I just wanted to add that I was and am intending to write one thorough and in-depth post about why I am doing things the way I am with this submod, and get some more discussion on the matter going (while hopefully avoiding a heated debate like the last time this was on the plate...)

    However, RL is taking almost all my time, and I don`t want to post something like that until I can really make it a quality post/discussion.

    (This is mostly @Kam; keep doing a great job mate).

  6. #6
    Maetharin's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    May I ask what sources you use for this?
    The latest book looking at Carthage´s military I read was Griffith´s "Mercenaries of the Hellenistic World", which was written in 1930´s
    "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse!"

    Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius

    "I concur!"

    ​Me

  7. #7
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    I originally intendted to add Carthage to Hellenic Overhaul but I lack the time to make it happen so I am not sure if we will touch that subject soon. Anyway, I have some ideas on how to make differences between citizen troops (so they would be rather used as last resort troops) and mercenaries. I will PM you some stuff once I will combine it a bit more.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: [Submod] More Historical Faction Rosters

    I agree that Liby-Pho Hoplites should be removed but that’s is mainly because all hoplites except militia hoplites should be removed IMO. I don’t recruit hoplite units as Carthage unless merc. I on the other hand actually believe that a Liby-Phoc type of Infantry unit like the “Carthaginian Infantry” actually did exist in Barcid armies though the numbers were probably low. But may very well increased had Carthage defeated Rome.

    Just finished a campaign using basically only AOR and Mercenary troops as Carthage. I had one barracks in Africa for Libyan Infantry and Carthaginian Cavalry units. Very fun and am currently playing a campaign as Macedon with only one Barracks. Why should I build Macedonian pike men in Africa or Libyan infantry in Gaul? Just wish the AOR had some better units. To be historical, only build a barracks in your home region, then all faction troops will need to come from there. JMO

    EDIT: I have a few pages of notes on Carthage and Iberia also. I would be happy to send them to you, though they are just notes and not completed papers or anything. Some interesting stuff. Thanks
    Last edited by JCB206; March 15, 2017 at 08:28 PM.

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