Italy's PM Renzi resigns after defeat in referendum

[alhoon]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38204189

The gist: Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi has resigned after suffering a heavy defeat in a referendum over his plan to reform the constitution. He is one more unified-EU casualty.


Renzi resigned after a humiliating loss over his suggestions for reform. Italy was on the verge of a political crisis amongst an economic one. Populists and Euroskeptics are gaining steam. It seems that the five-star movement and the far-right Northern League may gain significant power in the coming political storm.

My opinion: Renzi over-reached. I kinda agree with the Italians that didn't want to weaken their upper-house and strengthen the PM. Add in that the "burn the establishment" and you get a powerful "Screw you" \ "no" vote.
The 5-star movement however is more a "we disagree with everything!" party than "We have these suggestions party. It's more a gathering of figures that disagree with the establishment and less an actual party with coherent views except "this is not working".
Northern League is a far right party.
All in all... Renzi's over-reaching caused his country to suffer.

[Diocle]

No, he has not over reached, the fact is that his parliamentary majority has now vanished cause half his own party supported the NO against him.

The Economist:

.
IT WAS, said a hoarse, red-eyed Matteo Renzi, an “extraordinarily clear” result. His plan to reform Italy’s constitution was not rejected on December 4th by a margin of five or even ten percentage points, as the polls had suggested: the gap between No and Yes was a mortifying 20 points in Italy proper.

Official figures showed the rejectionist front winning by 60% to 40% in metropolitan Italy (and by 59% to 41% counting ballots cast by Italians abroad). And that was with a high turnout, which Mr Renzi’s advisers had believed would favour his cause. The humiliation came at the end of a 66-day campaign into which Mr Renzi threw himself with frenetic energy. He had little choice but to resign in the face of such an unexpectedly decisive outcome.
.

This is the map of the vote:



It's a historical debacle for the ex-Communists; while the Washington Post doesn't miss the occasion to show they are still in Soros' service with crap like this: "The Italian premier resigns in a populist revolt",
the truth is that Leftists are being defeated all over the world by their own demented policy, by their own corruption, by their own ideological bankrupt.

We should ask ourselves, is there a Trump effect working on European Policy Framework? My answer is "Yes and no!", this because if it's true that the partecipation to the vote has been impressive for Italian standards and possibly this is really the Trump effect, we must consider that in Europe the first signal has come from the Brexit, so from inside Europe; we have to wait the French Election to see if this annihilation of the Left will go on, in any case this is my hope, to save this continent in fact we need the total annihilation of the Left in cultural, moral and political terms.

Let me add a warning to the news of this good day: don't follow the demented habit of hacks all over the world in Soros' pay: Renzi has not been defeated by populism, he has been defeated cause his reform was a large amount of indecent crap; he has been defeated by the votes of his fellow citizens, even those belonging to his own party; Grillo and his party are no more populist than the ex-Stalinist party of Renzi, the PD, the only difference it's that M5S and Lega Nord have more contents to offer to Italian citizens than the ex-Stalinists of Renzi; the truth is that Socialists in Europe are close to vanish for their own ideological bankrupt, not for populist assassination.

Of these five ****bags, four are now gone forever, one stands ..
.. how long? To the the Germans finding an answer!

[Humble Warrior]

Brexit, US, now Italy. The effect is spreading across Western Europe. Great stuff.

[EU Empire is fubar]

Brexit, US, now Italy. The effect is spreading across Western Europe. Great stuff.

Indeed. Germany will get rid of the evil Merkal and France will elect Le Pen and we will break the EU Empire which has failed people served banks and enslaved races of Europe.

[Basil II the B.S]

The funny thing is that within the European Commission and similar they are in denial of what's going on.

Malcontent has been piling up for a while.
Revolution was clearly brewing in the Greek summer and it was only a matter of time before it spread. Did they do anything to change the tide? Nope. They double down on failed policies.

Now mainstream politicans want elections in Italy in February because they can't keep going like this with no consensus, but the globalist elite backing them doesn't want to, because it'd lead to a M5S government and the referendum on the Euro right next year.

And they want to change the electoral law again, because they changed it 2 years ago to keep M5S out, but now that method will inevitably cause their triumph. So they are frantically seeking a new method to count votes to keep them out of the government.

Dishonest and anti-democratic to the very end.

[fkizz]

The funny thing is that within the European Commission and similar they are in denial of what's going on.

They are professional denialists by now.

[Roma_Victrix]

Interesting development. I had no idea Renzi was in any sort of big political trouble. This comes as a pretty big surprise. Then again, with Brexit I should have seen this coming. If Le Pen wins in France after the ever unpopular Hollande resigns, that will be a huge upset for the continent. The only country that doesn't seem affected by this is Germany. They seem to still have a strong distaste for anything even remotely far-right.

[caratacus]

Interesting development. I had no idea Renzi was in any sort of big political trouble. This comes as a pretty big surprise. Then again, with Brexit I should have seen this coming. If Le Pen wins in France after the ever unpopular Hollande resigns, that will be a huge upset for the continent. The only country that doesn't seem affected by this is Germany. They seem to still have a strong distaste for anything even remotely far-right.

Except Brexit isn't anything to do with Far Right, nor most of the 60 percent who voted in the Italian election would describe themselves as that. Even Marine Le Pen, cannot be described as extremist and has moved her party to a position that appeals to the casual voter.

What they are however, is anti establishment and/or anti EU, something the German voter seems to be more inclined to be favourable towards.

[Humble Warrior]

Except Brexit isn't anything to do with Far Right, nor most of the 60 percent who voted in the Italian election would describe themselves as that. Even Marine Le Pen, cannot be described as extremist and has moved her party to a position that appeals to the casual voter.

What they are however, is anti establishment and/or anti EU, something the German voter seems to be more inclined to be favourable towards.

This. Of course some small truly far-right put their chips in, but it`s not about them. It`s about the people being sick of the regressive totalitarian Left and the unrestrained immigration bs to the point that being right is far more preferential. In some ways the Right has become the true representatives of real freedom and common sense.

As for Germany, I`m still amazed that Merkel stays in power. We even kicked Mrs Thatcher out when she went too far. What`s wrong with the men in Germany?

[justicar5]

This. Of course some small truly far-right put their chips in, but it`s not about them. It`s about the people being sick of the regressive totalitarian Left and the unrestrained immigration bs to the point that being right is far more preferential. In some ways the Right has become the true representatives of real freedom and common sense.

As for Germany, I`m still amazed that Merkel stays in power. We even kicked Mrs Thatcher out when she went too far. What`s wrong with the men in Germany?

1)Because,a,foreign,policy,of,mass,murder,is,sensible...right.

2)Because,they,had,the,'alt-right',before,looks,like,the,right,needs,putting,back,in,it's,place,I,just,hope,it,doesn't,take,yet,another,world,wa,but,pappy,putin,and,his,lap,dog,Trump,really,want,one...

[Kyriakos]

Interesting development. I had no idea Renzi was in any sort of big political trouble. This comes as a pretty big surprise. Then again, with Brexit I should have seen this coming. If Le Pen wins in France after the ever unpopular Hollande resigns, that will be a huge upset for the continent. The only country that doesn't seem affected by this is Germany. They seem to still have a strong distaste for anything even remotely far-right.

indeed

Germany is what caused the collapse of the Eu in the first place. Still surprised their gov is there, and even moreso that they keep that cretinous goon lawyer as economy minister. He even looks like a concentration camp guard/officer/monster :/

[the_mango55]

I haven't followed the Italy situation all that closely, but why did pro Trump people support the No vote on this?

Getting rid of a political quagmire that doesn't allow legislation to pass seems like it would be right up Trump's alley (or at least up the alley he campaigned for).

How can keeping everything the same possibly be considered anti-establishment?

[Basil II the B.S]

I haven't followed the Italy situation all that closely, but why did pro Trump people support the No vote on this?

Getting rid of a political quagmire that doesn't allow legislation to pass seems like it would be right up Trump's alley (or at least up the alley he campaigned for).

How can keeping everything the same possibly be considered anti-establishment?

Complex political games.
Renzi was never elected, he was chosen in one of the typical mash ups of Italian politics after 2 failed technocratic goverments, thus he used the referendum as a way to get legitimacy; plus, since why not, the changes the referendum was about was giving him more powers.

Italians simply rejected him, giving him more powers and what he stands for, meaning the sacrifice of Italian prosperity in the name of the European political union.

It is anti-establishment because giving the establishment even more powers would be suicide.

Interesting development. I had no idea Renzi was in any sort of big political trouble. This comes as a pretty big surprise. Then again, with Brexit I should have seen this coming. If Le Pen wins in France after the ever unpopular Hollande resigns, that will be a huge upset for the continent. The only country that doesn't seem affected by this is Germany. They seem to still have a strong distaste for anything even remotely far-right.

Afd has gone from 0 to 20% within a year.

[Diocle]

In Italy the ex-Communists are the establishment, so, the NO is anti-establishment cause it prevents the ex-Communists to create a new costitutional model tailored on their infamous, disgusting, filthy party of bandits and robbers.

Anyawy Renzi is still there .. the man is firm in his decisions! .. My God what a shameful show!

Believe me guys, it's a hard thing living and loving this ing country in this continent of Socialist Zombies!

[caratacus]

In Italy the ex-Communists are the establishment, so, the NO is anti-establishment cause it prevents the ex-Communists to create a new costitutional model tailored on their infamous, disgusting, filthy party of bandits and robbers.

Anyawy Renzi is still there .. the man is firm in his decisions! .. My God what a shameful show!

Believe me guys, it's a hard thing living and loving this ing country in this continent of Socialist Zombies!

Perhaps not for long.

Europe’s Left Loses Further Ground With Matteo Renzi’s Resignation
Rejection of Italian reform package is latest instance in a broader downward slide for left-of-center parties across the continent
By Jeannette Neumann
Dec. 6, 2016 5:30 a.m. ET
http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-...ion-1481020240
MADRID—Support is collapsing for Europe’s mainstream leftist parties, long a pillar of the establishment in countries across the continent.

I wonder if the deceit about the extent of Italy's financial problems after Renzi now starts to unravel. Italy isn't Greece though and if the banking system fails, so does the Euro.

ITALY ON THE BRINK: Desperate Renzi begs Qatar for help as top bank tries to secure £4BN
ITALIAN Prime Minister Matteo Renzi is facing a race against time as Europe's oldest bank teeters on the verge of collapse amid a constitutional crisis in the country.
By Siobhan McFadyen
PUBLISHED: 19:12, Sun, Dec 4, 2016 | UPDATED: 20:23, Sun, Dec 4, 2016
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-gets-underway
As voters go to the polls today to take part in their referendum, bankers at Banca Monte dei Paschi de Siena are attempting a last minute bail-out deal from bondholders, supported by the Prime Minister who has gone all out to request help.

The government has gone cap in hand to the Qatari royal family and a number of US hedge funds in the hope they can request a £4.2BN bail-out ahead of the crunch vote.

Italy's third largest lender has been in trouble for months and needs to plug its hole by the end of this year or face being wound down.

But the bank is struggling to raise the capital it needs putting the entire Eurozone in jeopardy.

[Basil II the B.S]

Renzi is former Democrazia Cristiana though.

[Wallachian]

There seems to be some sort of propaganda war with this Soros boogy man coming from everywhere. Everywhere we go everything is blamed on Soros, jeez this guy must have some crazy super powers to have enough time to meddle in the politics of every single country in the world. I mean in my home country of Romania we have the leftist ex-communist ruling party claiming that Soros is sponsoring the centre right parties, the foreigners, the big corporations etc. Here we have people claiming in Italy that Soros is supporting the left-wing ex-Communist establishment. Which one is it?

It's funny how the disenfranchised people always flock to the extremes. So was in Russia in 1917 and so was in Germany in 1933. Could 2016 be the next big year? Probably not. But the pendulum is obviously swinging back in favour of populism. Obviously we haven't learned that populism leads to one thing and one thing only: a way bigger disaster than the one that it was supposed to fix in the first place.

If Renzi's resignation will lead to 5-star ruling over Italy then i guess we could have the possibility of Italy leaving the EU. I guess the Chinese and the Russians are rubbing their hands seeing how Europe is tearing itself apart. This whole anti-establishment thing seems like shooting yourself in order to spite your boss that you can't go to work and help his business, I mean sure the business will lose out but you still freaking shot yourself and you will suffer a lot more.

[Basil II the B.S]

If Renzi's resignation will lead to 5-star ruling over Italy then i guess we could have the possibility of Italy leaving the EU. I guess the Chinese and the Russians are rubbing their hands seeing how Europe is tearing itself apart. This whole anti-establishment thing seems like shooting yourself in order to spite your boss that you can't go to work and help his business, I mean sure the business will lose out but you still freaking shot yourself and you will suffer a lot more.

So the solution is keep suffering and let the elite get away with it?

Nope. The solution is seeking change and for that the elite needs to be removed from power.
And leaving the current EU is hardly shooting yourself in the foot. In its current form, the EU is impoverishing European people. The elite is unwilling and unable to reform it. If the EU can't be reformed, then it needs to go. The sole Luxembourg alone is a gigantic tax fraud scheme that is bankrupting half of Europe. If the EU at the end of the day is nothing more than treaties for the elite to dodge taxes then there's no reason to keep it together. Let it fall apart.

And no 'ebil Russians'' propaganda you can post will ever change this. This has nothing to do with Russia.

This is a battle to keep Europe democratic and prosperous. Not a plutocratic regime masqueraded as democracy.


On topic, Renzi is pushing for early elections, February next year, in the mental state of delusion that the 40% support for his reform will translate to 40% in the first turn. It'll almost certainly will at the second turn when the options are only 2 like in the referendum, but not in the first turn where options are limitless.

We are in for an M5S victory and finally a referendum on the Euro. The Euro ends in 2017.

[caratacus]

If Renzi's resignation will lead to 5-star ruling over Italy then i guess we could have the possibility of Italy leaving the EU. I guess the Chinese and the Russians are rubbing their hands seeing how Europe is tearing itself apart. This whole anti-establishment thing seems like shooting yourself in order to spite your boss that you can't go to work and help his business, I mean sure the business will lose out but you still freaking shot yourself and you will suffer a lot more.

Oh "Populism", isn’t that the new buzzword of the Left to describe and belittle popular opinion within a country, that feels they are being ruled by a political elite who no longer represents their interests.

And you feel that Jinping and Putin are rubbing their hands with glee at that happening, I doubt that very much. If it was the case, because they view it as taking out an economic competitor, then they are very short sighted indeed. Especially since China seems to be buying up European business left right and centre.

Chinese investment in Europe hits $23bn record
China’s investment in Europe and the US has reached record highs, despite the slowdown in its domestic economy...
https://www.ft.com/content/c1155e72-...b-1f8b0d268c39

However, if this was the case, then they should be careful what they wish for others, least that same populist movement comes knocking at their doors.

As for Soros, I think it highly undesirable to have a billionaire try and use his money and influence to manipulate government. I find it strange that the Left who consider the interests of the people to be foremost, would not.

[Basil II the B.S]

Oh "Populism", isn’t that the new buzzword of the Left to describe and belittle popular opinion within a country, that feels they are being ruled by a political elite who no longer represents their interests.

I wish it was just ''the Left''.

But look at Sanders and Corbyn, they are also described as ''waaah populism''.

Basically anyone who isn't a globalist scumbag is ''populist'', regardless of left or right leaning.

Ok, i haven't been following the news for sometime now, due to the news always being crap :/

Revolutionary times are always rough. Brace yourself best buddy.

This. Of course some small truly far-right put their chips in, but it`s not about them. It`s about the people being sick of the regressive totalitarian Left and the unrestrained immigration bs to the point that being right is far more preferential. In some ways the Right has become the true representatives of real freedom and common sense.

As for Germany, I`m still amazed that Merkel stays in power. We even kicked Mrs Thatcher out when she went too far. What`s wrong with the men in Germany?

Most Germans don't realize that they can't build their wealth off the suffering of Southern Europeans.

All they see is their wealth increasing and of course they are happy with Merkel.