Turkey's accession to the EU may be stopped

[alhoon]

https://www.rt.com/news/367859-turke...n-immediately/


http://www.b92.net/eng/news/world.ph...4&nav_id=99779

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/11...ssion-no-value

The gist: Many Europarliament MPs have called to a freeze of the accession of Turkey to the EU based on Erdogan's crackdown and other issues. Language on both sides got heated. And today, the Europarliament passed a non-binding vote to freeze the accession talks, putting another turn on Turkey's 30 years road to the EU.
While the vote is non-binding, there was overwhelming support to stop the accession talks.
Turkey's Erdogan replied that he will not change his ways to accommodate the Europarliament, slightly downplayed the importance of the vote since it's non-binding and said his country may join the Asian Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) instead. The future of the migrant deal with Turkey is also in jeopardy.



What I think: This is an important development. Although non-binding, the vote to block Turkey yet again had overwhelming support. Erdogan's insistence of authoritarian rule and undemocratic crackdowns are valid reasons to stop the procedure. On the other hand, the migrant flow deal is very important at least to my country, Greece. The flow of immigrants has dropped significantly with the cooperation of Turkey.
On the other hand, Erdogan has used that deal as blackmail material over the EU; there are viable reasons to assume that Turkey turned a blind eye to the migrant flow until it got bribed to do what was needed to stem the flow. Because of the deal, the arrivals dropped considerably which can't be coincidence.


What do you think?

[Tureuki]

Wow such breaking news. Right when we thought we could enter after FIFTY years Does EU seriously thinks EU membership is a trump card againts Turkey? I think we should just hold moderate ties with both EU and SCO, while slightly leaning more towards SCO. Thats what the people on tvs say and politicians hint anyway.

[Kraut]

Under the current circumstances, Turkey misses the minimum standards and requirements for EU membership anyway, and by far.
So this is just of symbolic value, new negotiations could be taken up at any point when (and if) Turkey meets the requirements again.
If Turkey is still interested then, of course. And vice versa, of course.

[Akrotatos]

It was about time.

The Europeans don't want it, the Turks don't want it. Only the corporate elite wanted it to open the Turkish market and import cheap labour

[Gäiten]

Turkey threatens to flood Europe with migrants so that migrants can take over Europe:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...a-1123043.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...pe-protest-eu/

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Kicking Turkey out of NATO is long long overdue.

[Prodromos]

Turks have to decide whether they want to be a Middle Eastern Islamic country, or a secular European one. Can't have your cake and eat it too. The days of threatening to go East unless Europe begs will eventually come to an end.

[Arminur]

The only reason why the European Union wanted them on their side is because they need the gateway to the Middle East and Asia Minor on their side.

[Anna_Gein]

What do you think?

I think it is a non-event.

Here in France we had a debate over Turkey accession to the EU at least a decade ago. The general opinion was Turkey would never enter the EU as it is a Muslim country. It is clear since a long time Turkey was never to join the EU. Instead accession talk have been use for more than a decade as a diplomatic tools by EU countries to co opt Turkey. In turn Turkey co

Frankly I think it would be best for both parties to drop the pretense of accession talk and start to re build an healthy relationship. The EU needs to go back to school and learn how diplomacy works. How to build friendly relationship. And start honoring the agreement it sign (aka migrant deal). We could even start to respect the treaties about human rights we sign before we lesson our neighbors (aka migrant deal). The EU still did not paid Turkey as it was supposed to do so the country could host and keep the refugees within its border. I don't know understand why Turkey still respect its part. It should not. It would serve as a lesson to both of us.

Turkey needs to tone down its public discourse and do more work than talk. Over the last year Turkey threatened the EU but did not act. It repeatedly attacked the Obama administration over its direct support to PKK but did not act. The US still gives weapons to PKK and support it with CAS in Syria from Turkey territories. More recently it threatened Iraq PMU but won't act. It call on the EU to stop host PKK leaders within its boundaries as the EU itself consider the organization a terrorist movement. It won't change a thing. Yesterday its soldiers were attacked by the SyAF. Guess what ? It will not act.

My feeling is Turkey has a brighter future with the SCO. It is the occasion to build strong ties and an healthy environment. Turkey should re-calibrate its diplomacy. Its western partner have consistently acted against the country interests and played Turkey for years. It won't matter for long. The EU is breaking apart. The EU countries and the US are entering in a phase of decline. Turkey should give them to much credit until both EU countries and the US learn again the meaning of "alliance" and "friendly relation". The lack of support offered by the EU during the coup and Obama's public support to the plotter themselves were shameful. It betrayed all our principles and a NATO ally. The way Putin was the first leader to supports Erdogan and the legitimate government of Turkey should question everyone.

On the other hand the Europarliament should ask itself what is its purpose. The EU is breaking apart. The EU failed to honor every treaties it signed with Turkey. The EU watch idly as its Eastern frontier is threatened by a resurgent and hostile Russia. The EU has a all low popularity among its citizen. Its existence itself is questioned. Yet somehow they find the time to do non binding vote that only deteriorate an already bad relation with a non EU country. It is more than time EU officials get their priority right and work to save their project.

[juanplay]

turkey has little options if it wants to turn away completely from the west (unlikely), only a realignment with china could provide some maneuverability. dont know why people mention Russia as a possible ally (beyond political and soft power utility) the country is currently in a demographic and economic decline beyond the displays of strength from putin`s government that appeal to the siege mentality of a great share of the russian people.

[pajomife]

Convoys are loading in Syrian border to unload in the Greek one, good days for the liberal Europe will come son..., this EU MPs are a bunch of idiots playing with fire, mainly because no one else in Europe have the Orban guts to say that they don't belong here.

[PointOfViewGun]

The relationship between EU and Turkey have been a strange one that's been showing a lot of sinister and childish behavior lately. Can't trust either side. For years, Turkey passed EU adjustment laws without really internalizing it. On the other hand, the way EU handled Turkey was anything but constructive or genuine. We learned not long ago that the development report was not published in time to help AKP win the latest election.

I never supported EU membership of Turkey as far as I remember. It's not a good fit, but then again so is not the majority EU members. Only a few of the EU countries makes sense to create a union out of while most others would only make sense to merely cooperate.

[fkizz]

Well, why would Turkey want to enter EU in the time of discontent that spawned things such as Brexit?

[alhoon]

Well, why would Turkey want to enter EU in the time of discontent that spawned things such as Brexit?

That's an interesting take. I don't think they're actually that eager to enter the EU, but they're tired of the game.

[Odenat]

"Turkey this week became the chair of the Energy Club of Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, and Erdoğan has said he could see membership of the organisation as an alternative to the European Union. The SCO was established by China and Russia in 2001 as an explicit military economic alternative to the EU, and Turkey already has dialogue status with the club. It is the first time a non-full member has become chairman of a club organisation."

As Turkish always say, "Allah close a door and opens another." And what will EU membership give to Turkey? China-Russia bloc will be more powerful than the West in 20 years, much sooner with Turkish support. Everybody with eyes can see that West is collapsing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ession-erdogan

[PointOfViewGun]

"Turkey this week became the chair of the Energy Club of Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, and Erdoğan has said he could see membership of the organisation as an alternative to the European Union. The SCO was established by China and Russia in 2001 as an explicit military economic alternative to the EU, and Turkey already has dialogue status with the club. It is the first time a non-full member has become chairman of a club organisation."

As Turkish always say, "Allah close a door and opens another." And what will EU membership give to Turkey? China-Russia bloc will be more powerful than the West in 20 years, much sooner with Turkish support. Everybody with eyes can see that West is collapsing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ession-erdogan

Except, in this context, Allah is closing a service door and opening a mouse door... It's very stupid move to play the East card as an alternative economic card.

[alhoon]

You know that we may also apply to join that, right? Russians are our buddies.

[Prodromos]

Not really. The West still blows China/Russia out of the water in terms of economic, political, military, and cultural power. There's a reason everyone speaks English instead of Chinese.

China's alleged economic powerhouse status is almost entirely reliant on Western trade and goodwill. Sanctions on China would indeed harm the West, but would utterly destroy China. The West isn't weak; it has weak leaders. There's a big difference.

[alhoon]

Not really. The West still blows China/Russia out of the water in terms of economic, political, military, and cultural power. There's a reason everyone speaks English instead of Chinese.

China's alleged economic powerhouse status is almost entirely reliant on Western trade and goodwill. Sanctions on China would indeed harm the West, but would utterly destroy China. The West isn't weak; it has weak leaders. There's a big difference.

1. Ahem... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-speaking_world About the same people speak Mandarin (Chinese dialect) with English according to the highest estimate of English speakers. 1.4B English Speakers vs 1.2B Mandarin speakers. According to the lowest estimate? Mandarin Speakers are twice as many as English speakers.
2. The reason English is the 2nd-3rd most spoken language is largely based on it's simplicity and the British Empire.
3. The West's cultural power is all around you... because you live in the West. People that live in the East or Africa have different cultural values than us. The slow migration of the Western culture to other cultures is indeed happening mainly because of things like Hollywood that produce nice movies and the Western music companies that produce nice music.
4. The Russians and the Chinese don't think like us. You're talking about people that in the Korean war had the practice of jumping on the wheels of military tracks of the enemy to slow them down, fighting machineguns with knives. Sanctions on China would harm the west less than China. But China can take it because of a far more oppressive system and a culture of "society first, individual second".
Telling the Chinese "Sorry, famine is coming. Unfortunately many of you will die of starvation" is easier than saying to Westerners "Sorry, things are tough. Many of you will not be able to afford iphones anymore". Don't believe me? Look at NK with people dying of starvation.


But we agree on political, military and economic power of the West compared to the East.

[Prodromos]

1. Ahem... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-speaking_world About the same people speak Mandarin (Chinese dialect) with English according to the highest estimate of English speakers. 1.4B English Speakers vs 1.2B Mandarin speakers. According to the lowest estimate? Mandarin Speakers are twice as many as English speakers.
2. The reason English is the 2nd-3rd most spoken language is largely based on it's simplicity and the British Empire.
3. The West's cultural power is all around you... because you live in the West. People that live in the East or Africa have different cultural values than us. The slow migration of the Western culture to other cultures is indeed happening mainly because of things like Hollywood that produce nice movies and the Western music companies that produce nice music.
4. The Russians and the Chinese don't think like us. You're talking about people that in the Korean war had the practice of jumping on the wheels of military tracks of the enemy to slow them down, fighting machineguns with knives. Sanctions on China would harm the west less than China. But China can take it because of a far more oppressive system and a culture of "society first, individual second".
Telling the Chinese "Sorry, famine is coming. Unfortunately many of you will die of starvation" is easier than saying to Westerners "Sorry, things are tough. Many of you will not be able to afford iphones anymore". Don't believe me? Look at NK with people dying of starvation.


But we agree on political, military and economic power of the West compared to the East.

Do you seriously believe China has more cultural influence in the world than the West does? Other than kung fu movies and Chinese food, I really can't think of any aspect of Chinese culture that many people are even aware of. Western languages, movies, TV, news, music are all over the world.