Is recognition that Jews have the best ideology of the Abrahamic cults the reason Muslims and Christians hate Jews?

[Ludicus]

I hope you realize those Historians don't have a Monopoly on Vatican Papacy and their Metaphysical(Faith) rules.

I still don't understand what you are saying, sorry, fkizz. My fault, probably.
--

Well seeing the History of Convertions that gave you maybe, just maybe...

I just said that Manuel I didn't want to expel the Jews (cherchez la femme). After the expulsion, he tried to protect the New Christians. (money, money, money).
But later, things changed. Dom João III, an anti-Semite, became king in 1521.
The father Jesuit António Vieira (anti-Inquisition) said later, "the difference between the Jesuits and the inquisitors is that the former die for the Faith while the latter live off it"- because Jews and New Christians were viewed as rich foreigners,despite their long history in Iberia.( source, The Marrano Factory: The Portuguese Inquisition and Its New Christians 1536-1765)

For the Inquisition, the greatest crime was the possession of wealth, not exactly/exclusively the faith.Kamen(1965) explains "the inquisitors were as discerning in points of property as they were in points of theology".
Bethencourt (1903)writes "The last cry of the Inquisition was a request for money. Its officers had to receive payment".
Jones and Palin, 1999, "Inquisitors did not display "an enormous fanatical devotion to the pope" but would ignore him when convenient"
---
To sum up, New Christians were viewed as foreign in religion, foreign as a people, and hated as businessmen.
Source,Measuring the Portuguese Inquisition- R. Warren Anderson, 2013,

In short, the institution established to keep religion pure was not about keeping religion pure: it was about power and wealth

--
fkizz

...adding the pile of ones I have yet to read

Sure. As you know, I wish you all the best for your personal and professional future

[fkizz]

I still don't understand what you are saying, sorry, fkizz. My fault, probably.

You follow the tendency that only those born on Christian families can ever hope to reach Papacy. The opposite is the Truth. Even if outside Europe and not originally Christian, it is possible to be Pope one day.
The idea that one is pre-destined or has pre-destined conditions to be Pope is Calvinism flavoured and Calivinism is a dissidency from Catholicism. That's the irony.

In reality, even a Jesuit or an ex-Jew can reach Papacy.

I just said that Manuel I didn't want to expel the Jews. (cherchez la femme). After the expulsion, he tried to protect the New Christians. (money, money, money).
But later, things changed.

He married the (virgin) Bride of his Son in exchange for allowing Spanish Inquisition into Portugal. Nuff said.

Dom João III, an anti-Semite, became king in 1521.

His father had nothing to do with 1) his education 2) taking away his women from him?

For the Inquisition, the greatest crime was the possession of wealth, not exactly the faith.Kamen(1965) explains "the inquisitors were as discerning in points of property as they werein points of theology".

There were several Inquisitions with different Inquisitors, and different agendas. When Jews fled to Portugal under "Catholic" Kings, we still had a de-facto Inquisition here, but highly softened up. Medievel Inquisition.

On Inquisitor Agenda, there can be written rivers of Ink about it before reaching a conclusion. To think it can be reached in TWC is naive.

To sum up, New Christians were viewed as foreign in religion, foreign as a people, and hated asbusinessmen.
Source,Measuring the Portuguese InquisitionR. Warren Anderson, 2013,

Which is in direct open conflict with the idea of converting people. Inquistors were not always like that. Something happening in between, and it involves "Catholic" Kings and Pope Alexander VI.

[basics]

No, he didn't, these are just lies propagated from far-right charlatans, who, in their usually despicable way of hesitating in front of nothing, in order to gain money from gullible people, distorted his answers. Thankfully, their incompetence matches their ruthlesness of accusing a 14-year old Jew of collaborating with the Nazis. Take Invest Watch, for a example, a fake-news blog which forgot to omit Soros' response clarifying that he's fond of 1944, because of the strong family values and not of the extermination of his fellow Jews by the far-right. Then, we have the circulation of photos of an SS thug supposedly depicting a boy in his early teens and Soros allegedly sadistically enjoying witnessing Jews being evicted, despite even paranoid Youtube accounts again accidentally forgetting not to include his answer, which reveals that he never said such a thing. In my opinion, the statement of the Anti-defamation League is perfectly appropriate.

Abdulmecid I,

Are you saying that Soros does not invest vast amounts to destabilise countries from within?

[Ludicus]

You follow the tendency that only those born on Christian families can ever hope to reach Papacy

How did you come to that conclusion? not at all.
I said a different thing. I said that the Pope Alexander VI was allegedly marrano.His adversaries called him marrano, and the Pope Julius II was also called marrano by Leo X; according to many sources, as I said before, the term marrano was also used as a insulting term for a real or presumed ethnic-religious affiliation, a general synonym for hypocrite/traitor.

---
fkizz

even a Jesuit or an ex-Jew can reach Papacy.

...and there were also Jesuits of Jewish ancestry. In fact,Francis is the first Jesuit Pope.

fkizz

Which is in direct open conflict with the idea of converting people

(I wrote/quoting, "New Christians were viewed as foreign in religion, foreign as a people, and hated as businessmen")

Historically speaking, formally, just formally.
But in reality, much to the contrary, considering the pejorative name "marrano" given by suspicious Christians during the Inquisition. D Manuel I was aware of the sense of loathing conveyed by the word, and issued a decree where it says,

We forbid any and all persons to call a man who has become a Christian "Marrano" or a woman "Marrana."

fkizz

On Inquisitor Agenda, there can be written rivers of Ink

Indeed, and that's the reason why we may also read some books on the particular subject.
But, in a very simple way, the Inquisition was empowered by king Felipe in Portugal to finance itself, and the Inquisition was a bureaucratic form of pillage,a vehicle for distributing money and other property to its numerous personal; in Portugal, nearly all of the Inquisitorial victims between 1540 and 1765 were unremarkable Catholics who often had minimal Jewish ancestry (Source, Antonio José Saraiva)

Generally speaking, Goa Inquisition was the most cruel, and in Spanish America the Inquisition pursued "heretics" with much greater determination than in Brasil.

[basics]

It's amazing how easily man, Gentile man has fallen into the same trap that beguiled the Jews where what was written has been superceded by what man thinks and not what God says. When Jesus said, " Call no man father except your Father which is in heaven " does one really think that these words meant nothing? He is the Head of the church and in all His teaching He pointed to the Father alone as being the one who gave Him His authority to enact all that He was given to do, the Holy Spirit relaying that to all that were and have been born again of the very same Spirit. The others are but interlopers as shown in the parables of the wheat and tares or the sheep and the goats following what Paul says is a false gospel that is no Gospel at all. Today we are seeing Jews discovering Jesus Christ as actually being their Messiah and Roman Catholics discovering the same in that He is their Lord and Saviour powered alone by the word of God because that is all it takes.

[Dracula]

It's amazing how easily man, Gentile man has fallen into the same trap that beguiled the Jews where what was written has been superceded by what man thinks and not what God says. When Jesus said, " Call no man father except your Father which is in heaven " does one really think that these words meant nothing?

If taken literally, these words would mean that it is improper to call your father by blood father too, which is idiotic, whoever said it.

[fkizz]

How did you come to that conclusion? not at all.
I said a different thing. I said that the Pope Alexander VI was allegedly marrano.His adversaries called him marrano, and the Pope Julius II was also called marrano by Leo X; according to many sources, as I said before, the term marrano was also used as a insulting term for a real or presumed ethnic-religious affiliation, a general synonym for hypocrite/traitor.

You're basically saying because his opponents called him a marrano therefore he couldn't have been a marrano.

His opponents called him X therefore he wasn't X.
Makes no sense. Is that your best?

And Spanish Inquisition started with Pope Alexander VI, and "Catholic" Kings Isabella and Ferdinand. King Philip II of Spain I of Portugal just rode the wave. Oh for Financial reasons? King Philip II had a record high number of Royal Bankrupcies.
If Inquisition was for materialistic/monetary gain, then why did his Treasury keep failing? Third inconsistency you present.
The truth is hard to

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

swallow

[Ludicus]

His opponents called him X therefore he wasn't X.
Makes no sense. Is that your best?

That's an (unexpected) provocative attitude, fkizz...
But, look at the other side of the coin- are you trying to say that three consecutive Popes (Pope Alexander VI ,Julius II and Leo X) were Jews? (PIO X was Pope only for a few days). Implausible.

That said, I have already extensively quoted some history books- and you?

-----

fkizz

Oh for Financial reasons If Inquisition was for materialistic/monetary gain, then why did his Treasury keep failing?Third inconsistency you present.The truth is hard to swollow

And again, another childish provocation.
......
Yes, for the king -and for the Inquisition itself, as I said before. Listen, read the recommended books.
Just one more reference. A History of Portugal and the Portuguese Empire, A Disney, Volume one, page 185

... the Inquisition routinely seized and administered the estates of the prisoners.The possessions of the relaxados and also of the reconciliados were retained or sold off as the Inquisition saw fit, leaving families destitute.
In theory the revenue from confiscations reverted to the crown; but in practice the Inquisition retained it to "cover costs".

The Inquisition therefore had a strong interest in securing confiscations, becoming an effective agent for pillaging the New Christian burgeosie. Morever, goods in possession of a suspect were liable to be seized even outside the New Christian Community.

Old Christians had been conditioned to see Judaizers as anathema and so applauded their exposure and removal from society. Thousands of Old Christian from all classes eagerly competed to enlist to enlist as Inquisition familiars

And because Filipe II desperately needed gold (later)

...conditions eased under his corrupt valido, the duke of Lerma.Portuguese New Christians were granted a formal pardon for past "Judaizing" and allowed freedom of movement in return for a 1.700,000 cruzados subsidy... when Olivares assumed control he was determined to utilize New Christians capital and financial expertise. "Judaizers" were again pardoned, and New Christians were permitted to settle anywhere in Castile

---
Quoting again Antonio Jose Saraiva,

in Portugal, nearly all of the Inquisitorial victims between 1540 and 1765 were unremarkable Catholics who often had minimal Jewish ancestry.Inquisition was a bureaucratic form of pillage,a vehicle for distributing money and other property to its numerous personal.The Portuguese Inquisitorial procedure was not designed to distinguish between guilt and innocence, but considered any defendant, once categorized a New Christian, a Judaizer.

Luís da Cunha (1662-1749), Portuguese nobleman,1737

The procedure of the Inquisition, instead of extirpating Judaism, propagates it. Friar Domingos de Santo Tomás, a deputy of the Holy Office, used to say that just as on Lisbon’s Calcetaria there is the mint, where coins are stamped out of metal, on Lisbon’s Rossio there is a building where Jews are stamped out of Christians.

From the book, brief excepts,

...Ascertaining that the Inquisitors are acting, not as pastors of their New Christian flock, but as robbers and mercenaries [sic], Pope Clement VII(1523-1534) (the document goes on to say), “following the example of Christ, whose distinctive trait is to have pity and forgive, has not merely ordered the Inquisition suspended but also, as a form of reparations for the harm he has unwittingly inflicted on the victims, desiresto present them with an amnesty.”

This document, which epitomizes the accusations to be leveled perennially at the Portuguese Inquisition shows up João III’s motivations for what they were.

Pope Paul III (1534-1549) took the radical step of ordering the Portuguese Inquisition “suspended” by his brief of September 22, 1544. He took the precaution of having the briefsecretly brought to Lisbon by a new nuncio who published it upon hisarrival.Now King João III staked his all. He demanded from the pope the revocation of the suspension order and the reestablishment of the Inquisition with unlimited powers.

----

By an anonymous Portuguese Jew at Amsterdam:

In this appalling, dour and doleful
Tribunal, which the people call Holy,
The brave at once turn cowards,
Ignorant the well-informed.
Here the righteous are criminalized,
Swearing things unseen undreamt.
Here such conjuring, such legerdemain,
Christians into Jews transmogrified.

As you can see, The Portuguese Inquisition was a.."Marrano Factory".
A factory of money.

[fkizz]

So you see no reason for existance of Inquisition, known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition, existed merely for Material gain, Isaltino Morais/Luis Filipe Vieira style? That speaks for itself. Very materialistic view of History.
And yes I did make provocations but made them as obvious as possible so they would be easy to spot and yet you fell for them. (otherwise we would fall asleep). Don't take it too personal.

Note: All your sources are by Gentiles. This is a topic regarding persecution of Jews, not persecution of Gentiles. And most of the sources are not about Pope Alexander VI, which is the on-topic issue.

But, look at the other side of the coin- are you trying to say that three consecutive Popes (Pope Alexander VI ,Julius II and Leo X) were Jews? (PIO X was Pope only for a few days). Implausible.

No offense, but this shows you poorly understand the metaphysics behind on what is considered able to Papacy and big confusion on what constitutes a Jew or Gentile. This materialistic view spills over in an ironic manner that gives Bloodlines more credit and inportance than they have, which give ironic credibility points to Feudal Monarchy bloodline distinction "world facts".
But point was, whatever the origin as long as he converts, anyone can/could end up as Pope. (as long as male, of course).

You don't have to be born "Chosen" or "Saved" to be the Pope. There is no controversy in a former Judaism practicioner Pope, the controversy is that Pope Alexander VI, one of them, enacted some of the bloodiest laws the Vatican ever did that enabled/ordered killing of Jews regardless of their conversion process. And killing means "burning alive". This is big, big Irony.

I hope I don't have to repeat this point for a 3rd time. Many people do confuse Calvinism with Catholicism..

[basics]

If taken literally, these words would mean that it is improper to call your father by blood father too, which is idiotic, whoever said it.

Dracula,

The point was that Jesus was telling them that once they experienced rebirth they would only have one Father, Him who sent Him to bring into reality new life in Christ. Therefore all those adopted into the family of God are His, the Father's children which He can recognise through the Son.

[Ludicus]

Pope Alexander VI enacted some of the bloodiest laws the Vatican ever did that enabled/ordered killing of Jews regardless of their conversion process

Not at all, you are confused, fkizz, reread my last posts.
Alexander VI was one of the worst Popes in history, probably the most corrupt Pope of Renaissance, but he refused to back down when it came to treating people of other faiths with Christian charity. The Pope, after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, made living arrangements for them in Rome: after the expulsion from Spain, 9,000 refugees arrived at the Papal States, and the Pope welcomed them into Rome. He also welcomed the Jews from Portugal.

A very interesting episode, have you read the book "The First Global Village"? quoting,

So many jews fled from Portugal to Rome, that the leaders of the established Jewish community there protested to the Pope that the influx would cause disruption to the city.The Pope responded by welcoming the refugees from Portugal, and expelling the Jews already resident to beyond the city walls. After camping out in the fields for a while, they apologized, paid a fine, and were allowed to return

On a side note, the Jews of Portugal were welcomed, more than anywhere else, in Turkey.
I would like to add...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

that the Spanish kings ruled the Inquisition (by Papal bull), not Torquemada.The Spanish Inquisition differed from the medieval papal inquisitions because of the prominent role the kings played in its institution.When the Pope Sixtus IV tried/attempted to reassert his own authority, Ferdinand, the main architect of the Inquisition, won after intense negotiations. The Inquisition served served to reinforce the political as well as the ideological interests of the Catholic State

--
Even after 1492, when the Jews were expelled from Spain, it was not a religious or racial question. The main cause of the expulsion was a military question, for military reasons of state security.

fkizz

Inquisition, known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition, existed merely for Material gain,

In Portugal certainly- but also for religious and political reasons.

[basics]

Of course the most prominent part of the problem for Jews was/is that they were to be seen and preached against as Christ killers by what had become organised and politicised religion. The passage of time has not assuaged this to any great extent and possibly never will for they are now faced by a greater enemy perhaps even greater than the ambitions of Hitler. Their only apparent allies are evangelicals with a political clout so it is perhaps a great blessing that America just elected Donald Trump as President thus ensuring that nation's safety for at least the next four years.

[Dracula]

Of course the most prominent part of the problem for Jews was/is that they were to be seen and preached against as Christ killers by what had become organised and politicised religion. The passage of time has not assuaged this to any great extent and possibly never will for they are now faced by a greater enemy perhaps even greater than the ambitions of Hitler. Their only apparent allies are evangelicals with a political clout so it is perhaps a great blessing that America just elected Donald Trump as President thus ensuring that nation's safety for at least the next four years.

You are speaking as if the jews are endowed with grace by some magical reason no one can understand, as jews - and are by that automatically excluded from the cathegory of the people that sin and commit crime, and have to be protected as such unable to fall in these quilts, as jews; and the other ones as evangelicals ?!

[basics]

You are speaking as if the jews are endowed with grace by some magical reason no one can understand, as jews - and are by that automatically excluded from the cathegory of the people that sin and commit crime, and have to be protected as such unable to fall in these quilts, as jews; and the other ones as evangelicals ?!

Dracula,

No, I am not saying that at all as Jews are just as much sinners as anyone else in the eyes of God but I think you would agree that no person of any other national group have been treated the way Jews were and still are. Like any other nation God has kept a remainder to be saved and apart from them, the others will go down the path reserved for unbelievers but because God gave them His words to carry to all the nations He holds them in a certain esteem even now, plus the fact that when He gave them the land it was by immutable promise and even though they lost it at times, at no time was there never a Jew on it thus ensuring the legality to their claim to it.

[Dracula]

Dracula,

No, I am not saying that at all as Jews are just as much sinners as anyone else in the eyes of God but I think you would agree that no person of any other national group have been treated the way Jews were and still are. Like any other nation God has kept a remainder to be saved and apart from them, the others will go down the path reserved for unbelievers but because God gave them His words to carry to all the nations He holds them in a certain esteem even now, plus the fact that when He gave them the land it was by immutable promise and even though they lost it at times, at no time was there never a Jew on it thus ensuring the legality to their claim to it.

It wasn't an immutable promise. In the OT it says because they had sinned Jehova took it away from them and enslaved them, a few times. Not that I care in any way about such a land, but such stuff is completely made up. I mean nationalistic crap etc. If God in one place of the OT gives land "forever" but in a posterior /in time/ place takes it away, he must had thought it off, changed his mind.

The jews are not in other position than any other of the pre-christ period. If god gave promises to Adam and mankind but then killed them in the flood, and others posteriorly, so did he the jews, as it is testified in the OT. And for some time no jew had lived there, it wasn't continuous claim. Tho noone cares about such a land of course.

And there is no "special esteem". By the words of Christ in the Gospel of John, who does not believe in the Son of God doesn't know him, as well as "Noone comes to My Father except through Me" /Jesus/ and is deprived of salvation. It means they do not have grace. The things you are saying is secular falsifications, not the words of God.

[fkizz]

@Ludicus

Since you are de-railing, lets go back on topic.

The source that Pope Alexander VI was a Marrano (Crypto-Jew in Portuguese/Spanish terms) is..

Page 73 of Atlas Ilustrado da Civilização Judaica. (Ilustrated Atlas of Jewish Civilization, Portuguese version)
Feel free to buy the Source and check it yourself.

Even the Jews themselves literally admit/confirm Pope Alexander VI was of Jewish origin/linked to Judaism practicing families originally (marrano). But you deny such for what purpose?
On the rest you talked on offtopic things. I'd love to discuss gossips on Portuguese Monarchy, but that's off-topic.

The time of spicing up Spanish Inquisition and Jew deportations was in 31 July 1942, under Kings Ferdinand and Isabel. (page 64 of same Jewish Atlas). They fled and got shelter under Portuguese King D. João II, but D.Manuel I as a coin of exchange of marry his son's bride extended the spanish inquisition to Portugal. This can be confirmed on both jewish and non-jewish sources aswell.

Now when the jews themselves admit/conform to all of this openly, why do you make such efforts to cloud the truth just because some Italian merchants rambled on Papacy of the time? All you did was a show off on how you know about history (a tad offtopic but oh well) but made little remarks to the topic on hand: was Pope Alexander VI a marrano or not? Did he enable Spanish Inquisition with King Ferdinand and Isabel or not?
Even Atlas of Jewish Civilization says: Yes.

[basics]

Dracula,

Yes, the Israelites did turn away from God on many occasions and were punished for it but not all were removed from the land at any time. Oh the name of the land may have been altered by the Romans but they still knew it to be the Land of Israel by retaining its original Jewish names in each region. Yes we can argue the merits of the times and places over the intervening years but who can deny that Israel is still Israel the natural home of the Jews.

As for the natural esteem that God has for the Jews despite their behaviour is still there simply because in each generation He has reserved a remnant to be saved and as Paul states when that is all wound up, all Israel is saved, meaning Jew and Gentile who recognise the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

[Dracula]

Dracula,

Yes, the Israelites did turn away from God on many occasions and were punished for it but not all were removed from the land at any time. Oh the name of the land may have been altered by the Romans but they still knew it to be the Land of Israel by retaining its original Jewish names in each region. Yes we can argue the merits of the times and places over the intervening years but who can deny that Israel is still Israel the natural home of the Jews.

As for the natural esteem that God has for the Jews despite their behaviour is still there simply because in each generation He has reserved a remnant to be saved and as Paul states when that is all wound up, all Israel is saved, meaning Jew and Gentile who recognise the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

But they do not recognise him as such.

And on the continuous claim - when they were in persian captivity jews didn't remain in Israel. At other times, one person to have lived there is not enough, lol, question is who held the possession over the land. I wouldn't imagine 1 patagonese laying claim on britain because one has always lived there or smth alike...

[fkizz]

Yes, the Israelites did turn away from God on many occasions and were punished for it but not all were removed from the land at any time.

In OT several times God threatens (Torah-timeline) Jews of abandoning them and shows disgust towards the way their kingdom is going. Especially when it goes borderline polytheistic (see: Book of Isaiah)
Then outside the Bible after this, Emperor Hadrian wipes out Judeah in combat, forbid Jews from re-visiting Judeah or their Holysites and re-names area to Syria-Palestine.
This kept for ~2000 years until the Zionist movement of today. Which is a Secular started movement, by Judaism texts the conditions for a return to Homeland have not been met yet.

[Ludicus]

@Ludicus
The source that Pope Alexander VI was a Marrano (Crypto-Jew in Portuguese/Spanish terms) is..Page 73 of Atlas Ilustrado da Civilização Judaica. (Ilustrated Atlas of Jewish Civilization, Portuguese version)

I see, an Atlas...would you mind to quote the Atlas?...it seems a very bad source,

The Illustrated Atlas of Jewish Civilization: 4000 Years of Jewish History

As a coffee table book to grace a home, the book may serve a useful purpose. As a reliable history book , however, the book is not to be trusted. It is not a much value to historians ,and is of questionable value to laymen seriously interested in accurate history...Bacon is not a professional historian, and the book suffers a result. It is marred by repeated factual errors, superficial narratives, arbitrary interpretations, and periodic sermonizing... the salient feature pointing to her inadequate preparation in writing this text is that the only historian cited in the entire book is Max Diamond

--------
You see, I have already extensively quoted some history books.
The point is,in Italy for the Italian rivals/factions, all Spaniards were "Marranos".

Another source,
Book, "The Mirror of Spain, 1500-1700:The Formation of a Myth". page 236/237, etc

From the late fourteenth century onwards attempts to prohibit the use of the term Marrano (which derives from pig), for converted Jews proved totally ineffective. Although some papal bulls do not use the term, there was a general and increasing tendency to extend its application not only to Jews but to Spaniards in general.
During the 1490s the arrival in Italy of Spanish Jews, fleeing from Inquisition, fixed in the mid of Italians the conviction that virtually all Spaniards were Jews.

Pope Alexander VI, himself a Valencian by birth, was called a "faithless Marrano" by Savaranola, a "circumcised Marrano" by his successor, Julius II (*).

"I will become a Jew, with the Spaniards", remarked Pasquino in Rome at the time of election of a Spanish protégé as Pope Hadrian VI in 1521.

When Charles V came to Bologne in 1529 to be crowned by Clement VII he was accompanied, according to Arentino, by "Don Rodrigo of Valencia
(surely an allusion to Rodrigo Borgia, Alexander VI), with a suite of 1,000 Marranos"

For another Italian poet, writing in 1540, the whole of Italy under Spanish rule was subject to "Marranos"

Its slightly more surprising to find one of the greatest Reformation Popes, Pius V, describing the ministers of Philip II as " barbarians and Marranos", so daring that they think they can guide (the king) in any religious matter

(I could go on quoting the pages 238, etc, if you want, but I hope this will suffice)
(*) Check my previous source, Exile and Religious Identity, 1500-1800, quoting again "Curiously enough, Julius II would also be called a marrano by his successor Leo X")
--
So, I repeat, what the books say?:Alexander VI was allegedly Marrano. Maybe yes, maybe no.