Is recognition that Jews have the best ideology of the Abrahamic cults the reason Muslims and Christians hate Jews?

[Dracula]

When these standards declined among the Jewish people, the Sanhedrin… voluntarily abolished this system of penalties."

~ Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Handbook of Jewish Thought, Volume II, pp. 170-71

So the Torah is abolished now ... Pity, sounded like a cheerfull book. Lol ... And yet it is written nowhere, while ... the Torah is there everyone to see. Plus the jewish religious Council Sanhedrin does not have authority to change the Scriptures, like the Christian Church can't. So it's dust thrown in the eyes of ignoramuses.

Anti-jewish propaganda. On every strophe of your religious book is a call someone to be killed, to that - religious groups and nations - which answers the description of genocide - but then we propagated against you ...

I am aware it was not fully practised ...mainly because most of the jews had to be killed themselves by the other jews, and we didn't allow you near to be killed ...Yet, you quite eagerly would assign any kind of evil to a nonjew, being more quilty than a jew at least on your doctrinal part... And then, that means for you perhaps you are very good, because you didn't kill someone but scarred, poisoned him or destroyed his personal life. Or maybe stole away his possessions. He is not killed allthough almost dead, so you consider your law good and generous ?! ...Cause for animals if they can lick their wounds that was enough.

We shall put an end to that, and almost have. For that not every rabbi to have his own version of the story. The most barbaric story in the history of the world. And the Epitome of Falsifications.

And I didn't hear why your people themselves killed the levites, if you know, as an enthusiasted jew, since they were so righteous according to that law that exactly they didn't have to be killed. But perished - and even from the hands of the very jews..

So we witness finally the phase of death of this religion, and nothing can save the sinking ship, since practically every word was found to be a hole in the structure of the ship, so it will inevitably sink...

So we have started singing Hallellujah, allthough probably it's to Amun, but who cares, for such occassion ...

Rejoyce and fortaste bliss and ecstacy, for the great Red Whore shall perish, as it was doomed and prophesied for her in the very scriptures, regardless whose were they initially.


And yea I am morall to speak so and proud. Because I heard present interviews with jews in the holy... erhh those goats lands ... and each one said that, who is against them or Israel, they will kill him for it is their morall duty to protect themselves. So we intend to kill you too, because we find that nonsense a war against civilised ways accepted by millenia, and our duty is to protect them. I would personally kill everyone who continues to espouse any superiority of the dumbest and most retarded religion, insulting far better ones .. which are ..all others. So take care, since you have declared war on us, we'll move against you, we are more skillfull and despise you with your constant twitching and forgery. And we do not rely on religion but on centuries experience, we are Goliath who wasn't slained by the hideous David, we are the new Kings of Sodom, Tyre, Sidon, Kedorlaomer, Egypt and all the kings of the world - are coming against you and shall put you there, where your place is - with a thick fence of thorns around the goat land promised to Abraham and walls to the skies, higher than those of the giants, for not a snake of this kind to get out and start poisoning every thing it can touch again. And if you die there in isolation - the better. Shall commission greater Mass than any so far written, allthough it appears to be to the egyptian deities, but, since they fared great for our civilization and were against you - shall respect them even more.

So anathema to Moshe, Abram, the one who fought god /Jacob your father/, Judas, the pharissees who interpret everything as they wish - and to all the snakes - be them tossed in the geena and burn in saecula saecolorum ! Amen. Amen. Amen

Though areth doomed, as it was proffessied in the Apocalypse that jews shall abandon their hideous religion. And since I see even rabbies quitting ... The time is already here.

[DaniCatBurger]

so much hate

[basics]

so much hate

DaniCatBurger,

No, the Jews don't have the best ideology in their outward appearance but they certainly hold the Oracles of God with their ideology which Abraham adhered to. What is now called Christianity was from the very beginning called sainthood meaning that from Genesis on those sainted were so in the exact same manner that today's conversions of whatever creed experience. They were and are all born again of the Spirit of God believing on the Lord Jesus Christ to be their Saviour and Lord. That is why it is written that His sacrifice on that cross was a once only event that covered all time. That's the power of His blood so, as is also written, " Today if you hear His voice," don't turn away from it. Grasp it with open arms for there may never be another today.

[DaniCatBurger]

We should try to see people as individuals and alterities, not someone's object.

"No one can save himself without the others" (Lévinas).

[fkizz]

Yeah, I would describe it as a particular evolution with the other branches mostly fading away or being absorbed into the Rabbinic interpretation. The Wikipedia article is pretty good, this particular section addresses what you're talking about:

So far article been a gold mine, I'll confess I didn't know/heard about this before:

The Gospel of the Hebrews (Greek: τὸ καθ' Ἑβραίους εὐαγγέλιον), or Gospel according to the Hebrews, was a syncretic Jewish–Christian gospel, the text of which is lost; only fragments of it survive as brief quotations by the early Church Fathers and in apocryphal writings.

Just imagine the controversy everywhere this fragment of text would cause in several religious societies if this document was around.. (fully preserved document)

Orthodox Judaism does not accept the scholarly view that Rabbinic Judaism came into being in the post-Second Temple era. Rather, it sees the Judaism of this period as continuing organically from the religious and cultural heritage of the Israelites, stemming from the Revelation at Sinai onwards.

So Orthodox reject to change in reaction to destruction of second temple... I'll be honest a person can start reading on this subjects and hours pass by.

It's why it's misleading to just say "Judaism" as one single identitical thing. Add to this the messianic judaism and Rabinic Judaism.. Then Zionism, and the fact it started as a Secular movement.
Plenty of factions to debate about who's closer to the Truth inside the own Religion or Ethnicity. And each faction with long roots that take long time to understand.
No wonder so many people get confused on what exactly are the Jews.

I still wonder which is given more importance or respect today, Torah or Talmud.

Mark 10;9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Mathew 19;8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

God is also said to never change his mind or laws and Jesus endorsed the no-divorce rule.

Let's be honest, both of those 2 passages you gave are written in a way similiar to Aphorisms rather than Direct Clear Command/Law. There's a reason the 10 Commandments are different from other passages in Old Testament.

There is no "Thou Shall Not Divorce" written in a clear non ambiguous way.

Jesus probably didn't endorse divorce, but in his full life where he died young trying to establish a new Religious Vision it's very questionable if enacting laws that banned divorce was his #1 priority in action/speech.

Though there is the subtle flattery of equating the word of the Church with Jesus himself which I acknowledge, but Church, due to being operated by imperfect Men, becomes an imperfect institution by default.

He sacrificed his Earthly life, pleasure, and comfort for what he deemed as a higher cause, not wavering even on threat of slander, libel, physical torture and slow death by crucification.

This possibly added to Charisma, Religious characters that abandon their comfort and risk their former status for a religious idea (like Moses and Buddha for example) often get more attention than ones who seek comfort and no sacrifice, or who end up better off on a personal level after founding the Religion.

[basics]

The one notable thing that comes to mind was when Jesus said to members of the Sanhedrin that they err because they don't know the Scriptures. Not only was He inferring their ignorance on these but also His authenticating the Scriptures as being the word of God. The one other aspect of Jesus' teachings, even from a tender age, was that He amazed people when gleaning out what the Scriptures meant. In fact we can read that whenever He contended with either group of leaders they were left in such anger that they wanted to kill Him. Oh the Talmud might have been their source but here we had a Man whose source was the very name by which the Apostle John gave to Him, the Word of God which was the first five books of the Bible, the Torah. In other words Jesus Christ gave to Moses through the Holy Ghost exactly what had to be written so that we the people could know and perhaps understand where we came from and why.

[Dracula]

I still wonder which is given more importance or respect today, Torah or Talmud.

Our local jews left the building of the synagogue in ruins, in order to cheat that they do not have influence. And they were in power. Guess there is a parallell only to nomadic nations on the path of war like the tatars, burning everything and drinking the milk and blood of horses. One must not expect such ones to behave as the others, nor to have a fixed and ordered system of teachings. Allthough I am with the impression the Talmud overshaddows the others. Giving them more freedom to be nomadic. Hell, in some places the jews still do not buy property and rent such secretly from clients - not to be known where they live. A system of judaism would be .. And there are jews who think, the richest - that the others are unworthy, since they didn't prove to be as skillfull as they, so that they do not know and do not interpret the law properly ..and have to be killed together with the goim, as rubbish that is obstacle to the more knowledgeable to do what they please. To expect any order in these people is ... And on the surface - this rabbi said that, that one said another thing - noone being neither priest nor religiously authorized to interpret their law, nor having lawfull and obligatory auditory, so it's ...They say something and it has absolutely no meaning to anyone, being themselves not the least obliged to follow it.

And to top it up, some jews didn't read what their religious law was, were keeping to oral tradition. And after they learned that the Torah was identical with the Old Testament, and inquired the rabbis about it, and they confirmed - started to buy Bibles, to read the old part only, because some didn't know idish on which these things were written, nor had any religious book at all. And there are even reports some have said they didn't like it ... but with jews is ...lol

The problem is of course families who for centuries tackle with that law, which is the worst, how to make out of it something even more monstreous. And the group of these who did not read the law was mostly from the eastern countries. And since noone knows which jew where went and from which jews is ...

Trying to draw a realisticall picture, allthough to make a picture of snakes in their hole which snake what is , is an impossible task.

p.s. And the power of the Oral Tradition itself doesn't have to be underestimated. Since from this group, that didn't read their law were these jews, who were surprised that I didn't spit passing by the synagogue, said they didn't miss a chance to do that passing by churches. Even wanted to know why I didn't spit,were thatsurprised ! But take that only tradition alone - is enough to destroy civilization - seeing what efforts jewish controlled media make to spit on every single non-jewish thing, and protect anything connected to a jew.

[basics]

Dracula,

According to the written word, the Torah, every Jew is just another sinner who as long as they cannot grasp it are no different from the Gentiles they look down upon. So whether it's the Talmud or the Torah they follow the Law of Moses condemns them just as any other creed of humanity. I stand on the Torah because Jesus stood on it and it to the latter that the state of Israel exists and will continue to exist. The Torah guarantees this and that is why Christianity of the Evangelical source does too in protecting that nation state. As long as God has a remnant of that people still to be saved from out of each generation right up until the eve of the last day Christians have an obligation to ensure its safety. Indeed God having given them the land forever can only be disavowed when He brings in the new heaven and earth and then only to them that have Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour through rebirth.

[Dracula]

Dracula,

According to the written word, the Torah, every Jew is just another sinner who as long as they cannot grasp it are no different from the Gentiles they look down upon. So whether it's the Talmud or the Torah they follow the Law of Moses condemns them just as any other creed of humanity. I stand on the Torah because Jesus stood on it and it to the latter that the state of Israel exists and will continue to exist. The Torah guarantees this and that is why Christianity of the Evangelical source does too in protecting that nation state. As long as God has a remnant of that people still to be saved from out of each generation right up until the eve of the last day Christians have an obligation to ensure its safety. Indeed God having given them the land forever can only be disavowed when He brings in the new heaven and earth and then only to them that have Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour through rebirth.

The christians have an obligation to guard someone that doesn't believe in Jesus, in the name of Jesus, for him ?! Put to that that he has the opposite law of Jesus ...
Is that faithfull to Jesus Christ ?! Or the politicians have done that Church ?

[basics]

The christians have an obligation to guard someone that doesn't believe in Jesus, in the name of Jesus, for him ?! Put to that that he has the opposite law of Jesus ...
Is that faithfull to Jesus Christ ?! Or the politicians have done that Church ?

Dracula,

I assume you are talking of the Jews here and so yes, we do have an oblication to them, why? Because as a nation they were chosen to carry the Oracles of God as well as out of a particular tribe God would take up union with a virgin from it. But remember they weren't Jews originally that name coming after Abraham and his followers were all circumcised. The Law that they were given was not just to show sin in the nature of man but also as a pointer to Jesus Christ as the Redeemer for sin and the only One. Of course the Law never saved anyone as none but Christ could ever keep it so many fell unsaved yet in spite of that God has kept a remnant who will be or have been saved. Therefore we protect Israel because of their connection to God but we also love other sinners as well by us spreading wherever possible the Gospel of Jesus Christ as it is and always will be the power of God unto salvation, it being unto all and upon all them that believe, Jew or Gentile.

[Dracula]

Dracula,

I assume you are talking of the Jews here and so yes, we do have an oblication to them, why? Because as a nation they were chosen to carry the Oracles of God as well as out of a particular tribe God would take up union with a virgin from it. But remember they weren't Jews originally that name coming after Abraham and his followers were all circumcised. The Law that they were given was not just to show sin in the nature of man but also as a pointer to Jesus Christ as the Redeemer for sin and the only One. Of course the Law never saved anyone as none but Christ could ever keep it so many fell unsaved yet in spite of that God has kept a remnant who will be or have been saved. Therefore we protect Israel because of their connection to God but we also love other sinners as well by us spreading wherever possible the Gospel of Jesus Christ as it is and always will be the power of God unto salvation, it being unto all and upon all them that believe, Jew or Gentile.

Their connection to God is when they came to Pilattus and asked the Son of God to be crucified. And then sent Paul and perhaps others, as he confesses, to persecute christians. And to that, half of the jewish prophets themselves in the OT prophesied to the jews not a connection to God but their destruction, for having abandoned him. I can cite them if you like.


And do you, as protestants base your obligation in the Scriptures or you are free from that, as a trustworthy Church ?

John 3:18
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 6:58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever."

The Christian Church does not have a doctrine that anyone is saved except by believing in Jesus. I see the jews are mentioned nowhere as an exception. Nor is it said anywhere that Jesus would like to just like that, frivolently, gift salvation to the jews.


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[basics]

[QUOTE=Dracula;15217493]Their connection to God is when they came to Pilattus and asked the Son of God to be crucified. And then sent Paul and perhaps others, as he confesses, to persecute christians. And to that, half of the jewish prophets themselves in the OT prophesied to the jews not a connection to God but their destruction, for having abandoned him. I can cite them if you like.


And do you, as protestants base your obligation in the Scriptures or you are free from that, as a trustworthy Church ?

Dracula,

Remember that the original protestants were Roman Catholics who saw that what they were expected to do was quite different from what the word of God said and so the question then was do we believe God's word as was written or do we follow the rules applied by man? These guys followed the word and thus began what is called the Reformation of the church.

There are some who say quite wrongly that all the Jews will be saved but fail to take into account all them that are already in hell. My own feeling on the subject is just what I wrote previously that only those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved, Jew or Gentile and rebirth has to play its part in that process just as Jesus said. " A man must be born again of the Spirit of God to enter heaven." The effect is that there must be change in any person making such a claim and we know from Scripture that many do make one falsely aka the parables to the sheep and goats or the wheat and tares. When asked about this Jesus said that these will be swept up at the judgement when they will be cast out into eternal torment.

Back to the Jews. When Abraham received the promises of God and by circumcision Jews became Jews every ritual that surrounded that event and all rituals subsequent to it were types and shadows of the Lord Jesus Christ so the connection was there especially through Abraham and Sarah and Isaac. The important thing to remember here is that all the saints prior to that family were accounted righteous by the very same belief and faith that we saw in Abraham and would follow right up until Jesus died on that cross and even subsequent to it because being born again is being made righteous before God through the very same faith.

[Dracula]

My own feeling on the subject is just what I wrote previously that only those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved, Jew or Gentile and rebirth has to play its part in that process just as Jesus said. " A man must be born again of the Spirit of God to enter heaven." The effect is that there must be change in any person making such a claim and we know from Scripture that many do make one falsely aka the parables to the sheep and goats or the wheat and tares. When asked about this Jesus said that these will be swept up at the judgement when they will be cast out into eternal torment.

Exactly my thoughts.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

Back to the Jews. When Abraham received the promises of God and by circumcision Jews became Jews every ritual that surrounded that event and all rituals subsequent to it were types and shadows of the Lord Jesus Christ so the connection was there especially through Abraham and Sarah and Isaac.

Don't start with the worst twisting of the Catholic Church ! lol.

The important thing to remember here is that all the saints prior to that family were accounted righteous by the very same belief and faith that we saw in Abraham and would follow right up until Jesus died on that cross and even subsequent to it because being born again is being made righteous before God through the very same faith.

Since christianity added much more things to believe, and better than before, to that thousand times overexceeding, I cannot see how it can be the same faith. Allthough since the doctrine is that it is the same god, guess you can say that. Yet the jewish faith was not perfect by the understanding of the Church, they were given small things from what was to believe, the fullness of which revealed in christianity /at least that's the theory I do not identify with it/. If they believed only small portion of it then, and the most important things not, I guess it can be said simply they didn't know god, not taking to the letter.


And since apparently not all christians will be saved just so for believing in Jesus, it is out of the question the jews to be saved for jewishness.




.

[fkizz]

Erhm I'm very pragmatic in this. A religion who does not hold Jesus Christ in highest regard is not Christianism and therefore plays by different rules. Be Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhsm, Islam, Shintoism, anything. If they do not hold Jesus as the Messiah and more than that, then they will obviously have their own inside set of rules which applies to their own religion but not Christianity rules, given they miss the basic required component to play by Christianity rules.

On this "christian rules" Ambiguous cases such as Messianic Judaism do exist, and Orthodox Judaism raises some question marks aswell. On the rest it requires more research for honest conclusion. But regardless they follow their own set of rules which are not part of Christianism anymore.

protect anything connected to a jew.

There's a lot of "jewish" infighting and several factions inside Judaism, who in some cases only barely considers the other as jewish.. To see "jew" as belonging to a single tribe/agenda is naive flattery. Even before King Solomon it was the 12 tribes of Israel, not the Single tribe of Israel.
Why do you think Zionism was started as a Secular movement?

It's much less clear and black vs white than that.

[Prodromos]

"In practice, however, these punishments were almost never invoked, and existed mainly as a deterrent and to indicate the seriousness of the sins for which they were prescribed. The rules of evidence and other safeguards that the Torah provides to protect the accused made it all but impossible to actually invoke these penalties… the system of judicial punishments could become brutal and barbaric unless administered in an atmosphere of the highest morality and piety. When these standards declined among the Jewish people, the Sanhedrin… voluntarily abolished this system of penalties."

~ Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Handbook of Jewish Thought, Volume II, pp. 170-71

So those old laws weren't even laws? Just a violent figure of speech? Interesting!

[DaniCatBurger]

So those old laws weren't even laws? Just a violent figure ofspeech? Interesting!

All law is somehow connected to speech and the debate of values and norms. There is a difference between stated and applied law even nowadays. As Hume said regarding laws, you need to distinguish between “is” and “ought” and assume no direct (causal) relation between the two states. If there is one, you are on the level of a narrative.

[basics]

The secret, if it is one, is that as Jesus said, " A man must be born again if he is to enter heaven." That is he or she must be rebirthed by the Holy Ghost so that change can be seen in both appearance and outward attitude. Most of the church systems today put that down to infant or adult baptism without any evidence of rebirth at all. Rebirth is most certainly an awareness that the person being rebirthed is fully experiencing because they are the recipients of it making infant baptism something that a babe would not be. In other words they must know in their hearts that they are sinners in need of a Redeemer which a little babe cannot have. Now that all applies to Jews as well as Gentiles so there is no difference there and never has been. Laws are not put in place but for one reason and Moses' Law was no exception. They all point to the inevitable in that all will break them at some point meaning that no-one is innocent and as all were bound to sin, Moses' Law was to point people to Jesus Christ and His work for them on the cross.

[Dracula]

There's a lot of "jewish" infighting and several factions inside Judaism, who in some cases only barely considers the other as jewish.. To see "jew" as belonging to a single tribe/agenda is naive flattery. Even before King Solomon it was the 12 tribes of Israel, not the Single tribe of Israel.
Why do you think Zionism was started as a Secular movement?

It's much less clear and black vs white than that.

but they are unified in what they are against, and that is in generall what is not jewish. Otherwise who gives a .. how they picture god or their laws, do they believe in any such thing or not.

The secret, if it is one, is that as Jesus said, " A man must be born again if he is to enter heaven." That is he or she must be rebirthed by the Holy Ghost so that change can be seen in both appearance and outward attitude. Most of the church systems today put that down to infant or adult baptism without any evidence of rebirth at all. Rebirth is most certainly an awareness that the person being rebirthed is fully experiencing because they are the recipients of it making infant baptism something that a babe would not be. In other words they must know in their hearts that they are sinners in need of a Redeemer which a little babe cannot have. Now that all applies to Jews as well as Gentiles so there is no difference there and never has been. Laws are not put in place but for one reason and Moses' Law was no exception. They all point to the inevitable in that all will break them at some point meaning that no-one is innocent and as all were bound to sin, Moses' Law was to point people to Jesus Christ and His work for them on the cross.

babies can grow into evil children and then from that evil people. And babies can grow into good children. Why do you think if there is a Holy Ghost he doesn't have an effect on that ? The comforting spirit or what was it exactly in english. Cannot he have a good effect on a baby's soul ? And if a baby needs to be nourished with good milk, that applies to the soul too, for not to start tasting evil as his first experiences and to then incline to that.

[sumskilz]

but they are unified in what they are against, and that is in generall what is not jewish. Otherswise who gives a .. how they picture god or their laws, do they believe in any such thing or not.

Concerned that interest in objective research on the topic could lead to facts contrary to your agenda? Your posts certainly seem to come off as strangely obsessed with such things for not giving a .. It's remarkable that such an apparent obsession would lead to so little factual knowledge about Jews on your part, although I suppose we do have to consider your sources. At least your rants would come off as more coherent if you understood the meaning of the terms you use. Case in point:

And I didn't hear why your people themselves killed the levites

So you believe Jews killed off the Levites. That's sort an odd accusation considering that Levites are Jews and that there are currently something like half a million of them.

Your posts are a good example of why those who would stifle free speech are really short-sighted concerning the benefits of just letting people openly expose their positions.

[Dracula]

So you believe Jews killed off the Levites. That's sort an odd accusation considering that Levites are Jews and that there are currently something like half a million of them.

Your posts are a good example of why those who would stifle free speech are really short-sighted concerning the benefits of just letting people openly expose their positions.

The jews have said that themselves. Unless they cheated about it, you are worse informed than me, at that being a jew. Go ask the others, they don't hide it. And if there are twenty or smth groups of jews, each trying to clinch and cheat the other jews, and who are not jews, it's not my problem.



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