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Thread: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

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    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread


    The purpose of this thread is to serve as a place where can be created and improved new hotseat rules and styles. Do you have an idea for a new hotseat? Bring it here!
    This thread is also the place you should visit for ideas before starting a new hotseat.

    You can also find here a list of basic rules and bugs recommended by Gaming Staff of main section

    A - The list of basic rules and bugs recommended by Gaming Staff of the main section

    I - List of known bugs

    1) The naval fort bug: No using ships to bypass a fort's or a settlement's Zone of Control.

    2) Spam siege bug: Besieging a fort/settlement with a force far superior in it, in order to either prevent that army from reinforcing or in order to cut down settlements income is not allowed. Same goes for blockading ports with ships.

    3) Ambush fort bug: No luring men in ambush position into ZoC of forts\settlement's as such robbing them of their movement points.

    4) Siege reinforcement bug: when the army is adjacent to a fort or a settlements that has been put under siege it cannot reinforce armies adjacent to him which he should have been able to reinforce on normal occasions. Attacking an army which the siege reinforcements bug applies to is not allowed
    Navy inside ports attacked bug: no using this bug to attack ships which are inside ports.

    5) Yoyo armies\forts bug: no attacking an army which the bug has been used on multiple times. You can see when this bug occurs, as the enemy army enters the fort and then leaves it.

    6) Attacking ships inside the port - Attacking ships that are inside ports is not allowed.

    7) Recruitment pool fill up - Quing up units in the recruitment sloots to increase artifically units/agents maximum number you can recruit in one settlement.

    8) Recruting mercenaries in forts with depleted movement points - Using forts to get illegal maximum movement points to mercenaries in a depleted army.

    9 ) Using ships to get more movement range - Using ships to give more movement range to armies on seas.

    + See the Universal Exploit List

    II - General rules

    1) Time limits - Time limits for hotseats where each player controls only one faction should be 24 hours. If players control more factions or its team based HS, the time limit can be increased. Maximal extension should be 24 hours. If a player is late, admin should sub/skip right away instead of sending a reminder.

    2) Exploits - Moves that are not actual bugs, but are considered as a break of fair play - Posting defeats, making walls of units on map to disallow enemy agents to move and stomping/killing agents with units, surrounding armies/navies to deny retreat, intentionally spreading a plague with agents/units, stepping on a merchant to remove him from a trade resource, exploiting AI factions ( for example demanding/accepting money or settlements from AI factions), and more.

    3) Suiciding - Suiciding a faction you play is not allowed, and may result into a removal from all hotseats.

    III - Military rules

    1) Battles - a) All battles are auto-resolved. Screenshots must be posted with: odds and result screens, mouse over the odds bar to show the ratio, the armies involved with their banners visible on the campaign map, unit card of siege unit must be visible if used to directly assault settlement.
    b) Manual battles against AI allowed should be allowed in hotseats where are AI controlled factions.
    c) Manual battles allowed against human players. This rule changes HS a lot so use carefully.
    d) Battles resolved by online battles.
    2) Defeated armies - Armies that are defeated in a battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list. Armies standing in fortifications (fort/settlement) when defeated are excluded from this rule.

    3) Starting peace - You are not allowed to attack or enter enemy land of the opponent, if he has not played his first turn yet. This is to give all players same starting chance, as in some scenarios some armies start in enemy territory or are in range of enemy units.

    4) Heroic victories - Heroic victories against players are not be allowed. However, occasionally it happens player cant get any other type of victory then heroic victory. In such cases heroic victories may be allowed, but only if the odds are higher for the attacker than 1:1.

    5) Ports - Ships cannot leave blockaded port, they must defeat blockading navy first. If there is more blockading navies, you must defeat other blockading ships or return into the port. Ground units cannot stop ships from entering/leaving the ports even if the port is blockaded in game when you step with your units on the port. It's not allowed to keep units/agents protected by placing them in ships docked in a port.

    6) Forts - a) Building of forts is not allowed.
    b) If building forts is allowed, then there should be a limit about how many forts can player build in a region. For example 2 forts per region per player. There should be also a minimal amount of units or men required per fort. Usually its 4 full units.

    7) Watchtowers - Its highly recommended to not allow building watchtowers, as it might disallow players to build a fort in such places where are watchtowers.

    8) Denying retreat of an enemy army into a settlement - You are not allowed to deny enemy retreat into a settlement/fort by putting it under siege. This is to prevent you from using the army outside to draw garrison into another battle.

    9) Siege equipment - Usage of siege equipment should be either a) banned completely
    b) or allowed with reasonable limitations
    - A unit of siege equipment can be used only once per turn.
    - 1st level siege equipment (usually ballistas) can assault wooden walls,
    - 2nd level siege equipment (usually catapults) can assault also basic stone walls/castles,
    - 3rd level siege siege equipment (usually trebuchets) can assault large stone walls/fortresses.
    - Huge stone walls or citadels cannot be taken with any piece of siege equipment.


    IV - Agent rules

    1) Spies - a) Spies are not allowed to open gates.
    b) If spies are allowed to open gates, then there should be certain limitations - Percentage an agent meeds to open a gate, garrison limit and possibly also number of spies required to open gates. For example - To open gates of a fort/settlement, spies need at least 60% to enter the city. If they were in the city in the beginning of the turn, they have to leave the city, and then enter it again. However, if garrison is higher than 720+ men, then the spies are not allowed to open gates anyway. Screenshots must be posted.
    Admin may also set up maximum amount of allowed spies per a player.

    2) Assassins - a) Assassins are not allowed to kill any agent or character.
    b) If assassins are allowed to assassinate, then it must be clearly stated whom can they assassinate and also the percentage they need to assassinate. For example - Assassins are allowed to assassinate spies/assassins, they need 60% to be allowed to assassinate. Screenshots must be posted.
    Admin may also set up maximum amount of allowed assassins per a player.

    3) Princesses - a) Princesses are not allowed to steal enemy general.
    b) If they are allowed to steal enemy generals, it must be clearly stated how high percentage is needed ( usually 35%). It is not allowed to steal a general in order to lift a siege. Screenshots must be posted.

    4) Merchants - Merchants are allowed to acquire other merchant´s assets only in your own regions, and regions that belong to a faction you have trade rights with. It must be stated how high the percentage should be to acquire other merchant´s assets (usually 60%). Screenshots must be posted.

    V - Settlement rules

    1) Destruction of buildings - a) destruction of buildings is not allowed. However, you can destroy temples of a different religion if they were not destroyed automatically when taking a settlement.
    b) If destruction of buildings is allowed, then it must be clearly stated what kinds of buildings can be destroyed. There also should be a limitation stopping player from destroying buildings when a settlement is in danger of being taken. Usually it is: Players are not allowed to destroy buildings in a settlement if superior enemy force can reach it in one turn. For three turns after taking a settlement players are not allowed to destroy any buildings here.

    2) Gifting settlements - Settlements cannot be gifted if they are in war zone. Gifted settlements must disband all spawned units except one that is can be kept to keep public order.

    3) Extermination of settlements - Not allowed


    B - List of the main hotseat styles:

    I - (Westeros) RP HS

    *Adoptions*
    1 random adoption per faction.Will need to be explained through RP, example - Fostering a random noble.
    Can adopt 2 pre-existing characters that you start the game with to help families not die out,this will also need RP reasoning.
    All reasons shall be publicly posted on thread per each adoption
    If found to be secretly adopting you shall be fined harshly and said member(s) shall be killed.

    *Finances*

    This Hotseat will be taking finances very seriously, if you allow yourself to run into debt.
    Here follows the financial fines for finding yourself in debt:
    -4000 = Troop Desertion
    -8000 = The Loss of General Loyalty Traits

    -12000 = Faction Destruction

    *Capturing Generals / Agents*
    A general can be captured if you have him trapped in a fort/castle you are besieging or could have killed him in battle
    Princesses can be captured if they are just standing in other player controlled lands where troops could get to them. Any captured general/princess can have a ransom negotiated, and the captor may decide to kill them if they wish.


    So for example a General is taken captive, trial by combat may be demanded rather than keeping him locked within a dungeon. A trial cannot be refused, if a general is at an obvious disadvantage, the odds will be effected.

    Using Random.org/lists, admin will randomize on the events that occur, and players may RP the events. (results can be pm'd to the victor before hand to make RP more newsworthy)

    Once randomized, the admin will pick the first number 1 result within the list.
    For examples;
    Two formidable warriors in a TOC

    Barristan Selmy wins
    Jaime Lannister wins
    Barristan Selmy wins
    Jaime Lannister wins
    Barristan Selmy wins
    Jaime Lannister wins

    1 poor warrior vs formidable warrior

    Mace Tyrell wins
    Robert Baratheon wins
    Robert Baratheon wins
    Robert Baratheon wins
    Robert Baratheon wins
    Robert Baratheon wins

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    If a faction leader or heir is defeated in battle, they may be captured or killed using the same results (death is a low chance)

    Example; 5/9 on escape, 3/9 on capture, 1/9 death

    Viserys Targaryen is captured
    Viserys Targaren escapes
    Viserys Targaren is captured
    Viserys Targaren escapes
    Viserys Targaren is captured
    Viserys Targaren escapes
    Viserys Targaren dies
    Viserys Targaren escapes
    Viserys Targaren ecapes


    If there is an outcry for this not be implemented, we shall not. Admin is more than willing to put the work into it and i think brings more of a realism / risk environment


    *Spoils of War*
    After every 5 turns, you may request the swords of fallen enemies.
    For example; If Targaryen defeats Robert Baratheon and kills him, Targaryen may claim his Warhammer.
    Other Ancillaries is admin decision, however lordships cannot be taken

    *Sidenotes*
    Realistic RP is expected within this HS.
    For example, for Tyrell to break a marriage alliance with Dorne. Serious RP justification is required.
    If a faction has a family member hostage, you cannot simply ignore it so you can attack that faction.
    RP is expected to follow the cannon of the era to a certain degree, grudges etc is expected to play a part in diplomacy.

    *The Iron Bank*
    The Iron bank will be brought into this hotseat to make the world feel more financial dependant.

    All factions can request loans with a 5% interest rate per turn of not being payed back, the size of the loans will be the banks own choice depending on your current financial capabilities, size of your territories, the success rate of any war and of RP PM's sent to the designated head of the bank.

    The consequences of not paying your debts will mean your enemies will receive the same amount of gold to help fund there war efforts instead, if you have no enemies the Iron Bank will fund however much it finds appropriate to create enemies for you

    The selling of Debt to another faction in exchange is allowed but will require all parties involved to inform the bank and has to be agreed by him.
    Selling or trading Debt can be done through exchanging settlements or in return for military aid.

    *Diplomacy and crowning yourself King*
    Everyone will be considered at peace at the start of this Hotseat, the claimants of the Throne such as Stannis or Renly must follow the rule that is below.
    This Hotseat is to work with hard work of diplomacy and financial security, this prevents everyone building massive forces and just blitzing enemies, if you become minus twenty thousand gold in your finances you will be removed from the hotseat and the Iron Bank will sell off your remaining provinces to the highest paying contender.
    In this Hotseat if you wish to declare an invasion of a country you are at peace with you must post a RP lawful reason for this to be allowed.
    This declaration must be done either before or on your uploaded save.
    (This does not apply when fighting for your King)

    If you wish to name yourself King of your Kingdom or of Westeros a sum of twelve thousand gold must be payed towards the Iron Bank for the Crown, you are allowed to loan this money, this is to prevent this hotseat becoming just a "everyone at war scenario"

    a) The Elder Scrolls variation

    - Every important event and decision of your faction(s), such as declaring war, surrendering, important battles, etc, must be provided with RP, in accordance with the lore if possible.
    - In the beginning of the game Elsweyr is vassal of The Aldmeri Dominion, Breton kingdoms are vassals of The Empire, Skyrim is in open rebellion against The Empire, The Redguards are independent, so is Blackmarsh and Morrowind Houses.
    - The Empire wishes to gain its former pow
    er by gaining control of all Tamriel again. The Dominion wishes to restore the power elves had in The First Era and convert Tamriel. The Stormcloaks are fighting for independence of Skyrim, for free worshiping of Talos and they consider The Dominion as the major threat. The Redguards intend to keep their hardly gained independence. Morrowind is trying to take back what it had lost and The Argonians want to exterminate dunmer race as payback for centuries when they served them as slaves.
    -The White-Gold Concordat
    The Peace Treaty made between The Empire and The Aldmeri Dominion ending the Great War.
    Terms for The Empire are following - The worship of Talos is banned from all provincies of The Empire ( so also from High Rock and Skyrim if you consider it as part of TE), so religon of TE is actually The Eight. Another term is that The Blades and religious knight orders (
    Knights of The Nine, Knights of The Iron, Knights of The Circle, Order of The Lily, Knights Mentors and The Crusaders) have to be disbanded and outlawed. The Thalmor have free reign to enforce these terms in Imperial provincies ( they can have 1 stack per castle in TE). AD cant take any more castles in TE unless they are allowed to do so.
    If The Empire breaks these terms, the war will begin again. However, as long as TE follow these terms, The Dominion has no right to attack them.

    Skyrim´s intention is to gain the independence and cancel The White-Gold Concordat. They can never ally to The Dominion. As long as TE forbids worshipping Talos, Skyrim can never ally to them. However, they can gain the independence from TE if Imperial legion of Skyrim is defeated by The Stormcloaks. TE cant grant freedom to Skyrim, only if they lose the war.


    II - Westeros Tournament point system


    Victory will based on a point system.

    Each hotseat will be capped at 30 turns.
    Player with the most points wins.
    Financial, military and territory victories will be judged using the faction ranking system on turn 31.
    Point Structure
    1. Financial victory - 25 points
    2. Military victory - 25 points
    3. Territorial victory - 25 points
    4. Killing faction leaders - 10 points
    5. Killing faction heirs - 5 points
    6. Capturing settlements of importance - 10 points.


    III - Score Hotseat

    Each player is obligated to count his points each turn and post with his turn report if there is any score change. If this is not done, no score shall be assigned.
    - Your alliance gets points for every won battles. One killed enemy increases your alliance score by one point, and decreases enemy score by half in the same time( Ex: if you kill 1567 enemy men in battle, your team gets +1567 points, and enemy team loses -783.5 points. And if in the same battle your team loses 300 men, you lose -300 points and enemy gets +150.
    So the result is +1267 points for you and - 633,5 points for enemy).
    - Killed enemies are counted by "men lost". If no enemy survives (siege, surrounded,..), then you can count as killed enemies all enemies from the army.
    - You are not allowed to disband any unit that is under siege or was defeated last turn.
    - No minus points, if you reach zero you stay at zero.
    Ships
    100 points for sinking 1st level ship
    200 points for sinking 2nd level ship
    300 points for sinking 3rd level ships
    400 points for sinking 4rd level ship
    Subtract half of the above points for losing a ship
    Agents
    Assassinating a spy or an assassin is worth 200 points
    Subtract half of the above points for losing an agent
    Bonus points
    +100 for thousands of dead enemies kill in battle, or for killing a general
    +250 for taking settlement or an alliance fortification
    +500 for killing FL or FH
    +1000 for taking a capital (Imperial City, Alinor, Elden Root, Torval, Lilmoth, Mournhold, Dawnstar, New Orsinium, Wayrest and Sentinel), but only for the first time.
    +5000 for destroying a faction

    -The alliance that first achieves 50k is the winner, but the game will go on for one turn. If an other alliance manages to decrease the first alliance's score under the goal, the game goes on. If the second alliance increases his score so it is greater than the 50k (and greater than score of first player), then the second alliance will wins.

    The Three Banners War variaton
    - Each alliance is fighting for The Ruby Throne in Imperial City. To become Emperor, you have to conquer Imperial City.
    - There are 9 alliance fortifications (including Weye and Fort Alessia) around Rumare Bay. Each alliance controls 3 at the beginning. You are not allowed to leave any alliance fortification.
    PIC
    - The distance between any new fort you build in Cyrodiil and an alliance fortification must be longer than can a character with regular movement points march in one turn ( so far it cant reach even ZoC of the alliance fortifications).
    - You get 250 alliance points per turn for the each fortification you control at the beginning of your turn.
    - To access Imperial City, you have to conquer all 9 alliance fortifications. Then you can enter Imperial Isle, and take the city.
    - If you manage to take Imperial City, you get boost of 5k points per turn ( but alliance points for forts are disabled).
    - The Boost lasts only as long as you hold all 9 fortifications. Once you lose even one, you lose the boost and you have to leave Imperial Isle, leaving there half stack as a garrison. When an alliance hold all 9 alliance fortifications, the other two alliances may join their forces. Once the threat is over, they to have to fight each other again


    IV - Claim Hotseat

    - You are playing as faction leader of your faction, not your faction as whole. Thus you are not allowed to suicide your FL or your faction ( imagine you play CK2)
    - This HS will be focused mainly on your in-game characters and politics. Important events and political decisions has to be RPed, or at least announced.
    - No adoptions allowed ( if your faction is in danger of being destroyed because lacking FMs, you are allowed to make a regent (by adoption) to rule instead of your children until they grow up). You have to take care of your family members ( there are large family trees). Important family events should be RPed or announced - death of FH/FL and weddings with other players.
    - For breaking RP rules you will be kicked from the HS.


    Claiming titles
    - You are not allowed to take any settlement without a claim ( except civil wars, crusades, etc). Even from AI/rebels.
    - Only settlements that lie at your borders can be claimed. HRE factions can claim any settlements ( not home settlements) withing HRE or at its borders.
    - You are not allowed to claim a settlement from a faction, if your armies are in lands of the faction ( or occupying settlements that should be theirs)
    -To claim a settlement you must pay 5k ( including AI factions).
    - To claim all home settlements of the faction that you were related to by marriage (the factions is now destroyed) you must pay only 5k.
    - Settlements that were yours once ( rightfully) can be reclaimed with 2,5k.

    - You have 10 turns to take the settlement/ you have claim ( or conquest etc) for, if you dont manage it, you lose your claim and the war ends.
    - You can claim settlement of the faction that has claimed your settlement for 2,5k as long as you are invaded ( so there will be two claims/wars in the same time).


    - Once the invader ( or his allies) holds claimed settlement for 3 turns, the war ends. The war also ends if you have under siege enemy´s last settlement, and they have no hope to lift it. The settlement the invader/defender fought for remains their, other settlements that has been taken must be returned ( from both sides).
    - You cannot claim a settlement from the same human faction twice in row, unless 5 turns passed.

    - You are not allowed to claim home settlements of the other factions. Home settlements cant be gifted. If your home settlements is in the hands of other faction, you can start war to take it without paying anything ( after for example imperial ban or excommunication).

    - Vassal states of HRE and The Pope cannot press more than 1 claim in the same time.
    - Independent kingdoms can claim 2 claims in the same time.
    - The Roman king can press 3 claims in the same time.
    - Holy Roman Emperor can press three 4 claims in the same time.


    -After all players play theit turns, turn will be "admin turn", when he does all money changes. After he does it, he will check all factions ( by entering their next turn with preset passwords), if they will be in debt, the claim will not be granted. Their money will not be returned.
    - Your claim has to be posted in thread, and also PM admin (PM will have title "HRE-number of turn-settlement")



    Independent kingdoms

    - If an independent kingdom claims a settlement/faction within HRE, the kingdom is at war with the entire HRE.
    - HRE factions should claim settlements from other independent kingdoms only with approval from their liege.
    -They can participate in HRE wars if they are invited. After the war they have to return all settlements they took within HRE. If they supported new Roman King/Emperor, he can let them keep some settlements as reward. Ïf they are defeated (last settlement under siege), they cannot participate in the civil war anymore, but their settlements will be returned immediately, not after the war.
    - Independent kingdom can take settlements from other independent kingdom without a claim if each of them is participating in HRE civil war on different sides ( but cannot destroy the faction). After the war they have to return all settlements they took. They can keep settlements they claimed before their armies entered the other kingdom.

    - If independent factions attack excommunicated factions within HRE, they might be at war with the entire HRE, as no of sides of a civil war is interested in giving up part of HRE to a foreign realm without a permission.

    - They can claim the entire AI christian kingdom for 15k.

    - They can declare conquest on another human independent faction. Conquest can be declared only with approval of pope/antipope, and 15k paid to admin. Conquest allows you to claim 2 home settlement of the enemy faction after the war with same requirements of winning as in "claiming titles". If the enemy faction doesnt manage to take it back in 10 turns, the settlement will be removed from their home settlements.
    - In case the conquest is declared upon HRE, 2 home settlements dont have to be from the same HRE faction.
    - You can declare conquest against the same faction only once per life of your FL.
    - HRE faction can become independent state if they have their own kingdom within HRE. They have to pay 15k, and they need official approval of the pope/antipope and The Roman King/Emperor ( if he refuses, the war might begin).

    Aquiring a kingdom
    - You can claim crown of a destroyed christian kingdom if you control all its starting settlement for 15k. You need official approval of pope/antipope and also official approval of your liege. HRE must be at peace.
    - There are two bonus historical kingdoms - Kingdom of Bohemia and Burgundy. These can be claimed only by Duchy of Bohemia and County of Burgundy, or, if they are destroyed, by the faction that was related to them by marriage ( only if it was kingdom before it was destroyed).
    - Becoming king

    (also The Roman king) allows you to pick one more home settlements. Becoming Emperor allows you to pick another.

    Crown of Italy

    - Crown of Italy can be claimed if you own more than 50% of Italy. You have to pay 15k, and you need official approval from the pope/antipope, who will crown you in Rome ( your FL has to travel here).
    - HRE factions cant claim the title, only The Roman King/Emperor if HRE control more than 50%. Exception is Milan ( or Sicily/Venice if they become vassals of HRE), if it manages to fulfill the requirements, Milan becomes independent and is renamed to Kingdom of Italy.
    - Crown of Italy allows you to to start a war against other italian factions ( except Pope). If you win, they become your vassals (you can keep all settlements you took from them except their home settlements). Declaration of war costs you 7,5k.

    Bishops
    - (Arch)Bishops can be appointed by hiring priest/recruiting general(or sending recruited general here for 1 turn) in a city with vacant (arch)bishop title.
    - Independent rulers believe, they have the right to appoint (arch)bishops in their lands instead of pope. Appointment of (arch)bishops can become subject of dispute between the pope and a ruler, with possible future consequences.

    -(Arch)bishops appointment has to be officially confirmed by pope/antipope. If you dont have approval, you have to pay 2,5k to admin to make bishop confirmed, 5k for archbishop/patriarch.
    - As long as you are excommunicated, no new (arch) bishops can be appointed, unless you have support of antipope who cancels the excommunication upon you.
    It all has to be done publicly in the thread. If you ask to name (arch)bishop, you have to post a pic of him, showing he has the ancillary. Confirmation has to be also done publicly.
    - Only confirmed (arch)bishop can be used in following in situations (all (arch)bishops that you start with are already confirmed). You have to state the name of the (arch)bishop in these actions:
    To claim a settlement, you need at least one
    (arch)bishop in your faction to approve the act in the name of church. To claim a faction, you need archbishop, he is also needed for a conquest.
    (Arch)Bishop is required to wed your characters. Without him no wedding can happen.
    If you wish to be crowned king, only archbishop/patriarch may crown you ( he can be from other faction if its player approves).
    If you wish to appoint an antipope, the factions that intend to appoint him, need at least 3 archbishops/patriarchs and 10 bishops. If you dont have enough bishops, but have more archbishops/patriarchs then you need, they can count as bishops.
    Pope
    - Pope cant claim any settlement from AI or human factions, he can be only gifted with settlements. He can take settlements only from rebels ( with a claim), excommunicated faction or from the factions the crusade has been declared on.
    - Pope can declare crusade.

    - Pope is hostile towards factions that has less than three crosses. In the most extreme cases, the faction can be excommunicated. Pope has to protect factions that has more than 6 crosses, although he always should protect the faction with more crosses than the one with less crosses.
    - He can declare war only upon factions that has 2 or less crosses. Being at war with the pope means you are excommunicated ( the pope player can ask admin to set the war between him and the character that should be excommunicated.) Excommunication costs 10k per piety of FL who shall be excommunicated.
    - The excommunicated faction can be attacked by anyone, it can be even destroyed. Settlements of the faction can be taken and kept as long as the excommunication lasts.
    - Vassals or allies of the excommunicated faction are automatically excommunicated. ( their excommunication ends when the faction that caused the excommunication is not excommunicated anymore).
    - The excommunication ends either with death of excommunicated character or with atonement. Or if the pope dies, and new pope has good relations with excommunicated faction (more than 2 crosses), the excommunication is cancelled.
    -Pope is hostile against all factions supporting antipope.

    - Playing pope will require player to change his diplomacy often depending on who becomes the pope.

    Antipope
    - Antipope can be appointed by The Roman King/Counter King/Emperor or any independent faction if they hold

    ecclesiastical council where the decision is made( must be RPed)
    - To appoint antipope, you or your ally/vassal (with his approval) must have a confirmed archbishop/patriarch/cardinal ( bishops cant). Only

    archbishops/patriarchs/cardinal that are present in game as a general can be made antipope.

    - Antipope is played by the player who owns him.
    - Antipope cancels the effect of excommunication upon those who support him.
    - Antipope can excommunicate factions, he has to pay 10k/per piety of the excommunicated character.

    - Pope can grant claim for 2,5k at the setlements of those who support antipope to those who support the pope. Antipope can do the same.
    - The faction that initiated his appointment and the faction he belongs to must support him until his death.
    - The schism ends with death of antipope ( or when cardinal antipope is elected pope). New antipope can be appointed with the same procedure as before ( money need to be paid again).
    - Appointment costs 30k. If you are the faction who owns antipope, you can cancel his appointment by the same amount of gold you paid to appoint him.

    - During papal schism, no crusades can be declared.

    Crusade
    - Crusade can declared only when no faction is excommunicated and when there is no antipope
    - To declare crusade you have to pay 10k.
    - Crusades can be declared only against a faction with different religion ( first crusade must be declared into Jerusalem, in this case, all settlements in Holy Land can be conquered).
    - Characters that join the crusade mustnt abandon it. Crusaders are allowed to fight only factions of the religion the crusade has been declared on. They can keep any settlement they take from the faction.


    Holy Roman Empire

    - Ruler of Holy Roman Empire is The Roman King who is elected by all vassal states of HRE .
    - The Roman King can become Holy Roman Emperor if he is crowned by the pope.
    - When the ruler of HRE dies or is overthrown, the elections begin.


    Elections
    - The beginning and end of the elections is announced by the admin. The Electors have one week to decide. Their decision has to be RPed and posted in the thread. You may choose not to vote anyone.
    - Every Faction leader of any HRE faction can candidate.
    - Candidate, who is heir of the previous Roman king has boost of one vote, heir of The Emperor has boost of 2 votes.


    Results
    - Character with the greatest support becomes The Roman King, unless the other candidate(s) claim the title. Any candidate with at least one vote from other faction ( or boost) can claim the title.
    - The Winner of the civil war becomes The Roman King.


    The Roman King
    - The Roman king leads diplomacy with other independent kingdoms, if HRE is at war, he is chief commander.
    - He can claim AI settlements for 2,5k, or he can claim the entire AI faction that is bordering with HRE for 10k ( only once per his life unless he becomes The Emperor). All HRE factions can participate in both cases, who takes the settlement first, becomes its owner.
    - He can declare conquest (see independent kingdoms)-
    - He can declare war upon vassals who broke the laws of HRE. The Dispute becomes civil war - Rebellion.
    - Becoming Roman king allows you to pick one more home settlement.

    Counter King

    - When a group vassals decide The Emperor/The Roman King is unworthy of his title (excommunication, attacking his vassals, etc), they can raise counter king. Everyone from the rebelling coalition has to pay 5k. They elect counter king amongst themselves. If The Roman King/Emperor is excommunicated, the pope can choose whom from the coalition whom shall be counter king if the coalition lets him. If they let him choose, they dont have to pay anything. If the counter king dies, they can elect another (everyone hast to pay 5k again, if they cant afford that, they lose or the pope chooses). If the coalition is excommunicated, antipope can choose whom shall be counter king if they have his support( or they pay 5k).

    - If the coalition succeeds, the counter king becomes The Roman King ( not Emperor).

    Becoming Holy Roman Emperor
    - To become Emperor, you must be The Roman King, you need approval from The Pope, 15 000 gold and you mustnt be excommunicated.
    - If all these conditions are fulfilled, Imperial Ride may begin ( the money shall be removed by admin).
    - The Roman King has to travel to Rome, where he will be crowned emperor by the pope. He can be also crowned by antipope, if the faction the antipope belongs to holds Rome.


    Holy Roman Emperor

    - Holy Roman Emperor leads diplomacy with other independent kingdoms. If HRE is at war, he is chief commander.
    - Emperor can place Imperial Ban ( once per 15 turns) upon the faction for breaking the laws of HRE ( fighting the other factions withing HRE, refusing to obey The Emperor, etc).
    - Holy Roman Emperor can claim the entire AI faction for 2,5k ( once per 10 turns). He can claim a human independent kingdom once per his reign. If he wants to make them part of the Empire, he has to pay 15k to start a war. If he wants to destroy them, he has to pay 30k. In all three cases all HRE factions can participate and become owners of the settlements they take ( unless the faction become vassal, than it keeps its home settlements).
    - Holy Roman Emperor can declare crusade if he has more than 8 crosses.


    HRE status
    At Peace
    - No war within the Empire ( The Roman King/Emperor vs someone else) or with another kingdom. Wars between two(or more) vassal states isnt civil war.

    At war

    - HRE is at war with other independent kingdom.

    Civil War
    - During the civil war you can change sides/join war only once per life of you FL ( with RP). For at least five turns after your decision you mustnt change it.
    - During the civil war, no new claims can be granted to HRE factions.
    - Ongoing war for claims can continue only if both sides are neutral in civil war, or if they choose different sides. If this doesnt happen, the claim is lost and the war ends.

    Neutral faction are the factions that didnt vote for any candidate. Although, they can join the war later ( 5 turns after the elections).
    - The faction that was supporting a candidate can become neutral if they pay 5k to all sides.
    - During civil war you cant destroy enemy faction by taking all their settlements ( except imperial ban and excommunication). If their last remaining settlement is under siege that cant be lifted, their participation in the war ends. They cannot join the ongoing civil war anymore. Once the civil war ends, their home settlements must be returned to them.

    - System for fines: Kings purse + 1k for every home settlement + 1k for every other settlement that the faction still own after the war.

    War between candidates for the title Roman King
    Last surviving candidate becomes The Roman King. Home settlements must be returned.

    Rebellion
    -The War ends with death of The Roman King/Emperor ( not caused by rebels), or if the agreements is made. Home settlements must be returned.
    - The Rebels wins if they kill The Roman king/Emperor or when his last settlement is under siege, in this case he would be overthrown. His home settlements must be returned, his other settlements may be kept by the rebels if they took some. All settlements that was taken from the rebels during war must be returned to them, settlements taken from the supporters of The Roman King/Emperor must be returned ( doesnt count for settlements that was taken by a successful claim).
    -It might also end with defeat and punishment of rebelling faction(s) ( not destruction of the faction). Punishment is removal of all their not home settlements. Half of their home settlements can be occupied by The Roman King/Emperor for 5 turns. They also have to pay full fine to the Roman King/Emperor.

    War for independence
    - The war ends with agreement.

    Home settlements must be returned.

    - If the rebelling faction wins, it gains independence. Although, all HRE settlements taken by the rebelling faction during the war are returned to the original owners,

    settlements taken from the rebelling faction must be also returned ( doesnt count for settlements that was taken by a successful claim).
    - If The Roman King/Emperor wins, the punishment is the same is in "Rebellion".

    Counter king

    -The war ends if an agreement is made, or with death of The Roman King/Emperor (not caused by rebels). Home settlements must be returned.
    -The counter king wins if The Roman King/Emperor is killed ( by the forces of the coalition) or if he is forced to abdicate (last remaining settlement under siege) of The Roman King/Emperor. All settlements taken by the coalition from The Roman King/Emperor and his supporters may remain in their hands.
    - The Counter king is new Roman king.

    -If the coalition loses ( last settlement of counter king under siege), The Roman King/Emperor and his supporters can keep all settlements they took (except home settlements). All settlements will be removed from the faction the counter king comes from ( except home settlements). The faction counter king comes from has to pay full fine, other factions just half fine.

    - If the counter king dies during the war, and the coalition cant afford to elect another, they lose. In this case, all factions from the coalition have to pay fine in amount of half of their budget to The Roman King/Emperor, the settlements they lost may be kept by their enemies ( not home settlements).


    - If the counter king dies, the coalition that was supporting him has one turn to decide whether they will continue in the war by electing new counter king or bend the knee and suffer the punishment. During this turn the war continues with no change. The civil war may end sooner, if they make the announcement of their decision before the 1 turn has passed. If 1 turn has passed, and a decision still hasnt been made, they lose automatically.

    Imperial Ban
    - The War Ends either with death of The HRE Emperor ( not caused by the banned faction), or if an agreement is made.

    Home settlements must be returned.

    - Emperor loses if he is killed by the banned faction, or when his last settlement is under siege (=abdication).
    -Emperor wins if the banned faction is destroyed. Factions that were supporting banned faction will be punished samely as in Rebellion.

    Excommunication
    - If one of the sides is excommunicated during these civil wars, then the excommunicated factions can be destroyed unless the pope/antipope cancels the excommunication.
    - In such case the normal civil war rules are implemented again.


    Blood alliance
    - Blood alliance is the highest form of alliance in game formed by a marriage. Breaking marriage alliance will cost you 10k. As breaking of blood alliance isnt considered standing on different sides of civil wars, as long as your armies dont fight each other.
    - Blood allies gain one additional claim that is shared by them. Each of them has to pay 5k for the shared claim, it is up to them to decide who will own the settlement once it is taken by their forces.
    - If the blood allies are two independent kingdoms, they gain an additional allowed shared conquest ( *rules allows you to make only one conquest against the same faction per life of your FL). In that case, at least 10 turns have to pass since the last conquest declared by any of the allied faction against their enemy. They both have to pay 10k and they need approval of pope/antipope. Each of them gets one of the claimed home settlements.
    - Once the claim is succesful ( a claimed settlement is held for at least 3 turns), they have to wait at least five turns before they are allowed to make another shared claim.
    - A player can take part only in one shared claim/conquest in the same time.
    - Pope cant form blood alliances
    - If the marriage alliance ( or forced marriage) is broken, you can claim enemy home settlement of the faction the princess belonged to (once per 10 turns).

    - You can also force marriage, if a princess from an other faction without an escort is in your lands and your units can block her, so she cant escape (pics needed) If she has an escort, you need to defeat it first. If the escort is defeated then you can also force marriage. Forced marriage costs 5k.
    - The player who owns the princess that was captured must use her as the player who captured her wants. Thus if he wishes to wed her to some of his characters, the player who owns her has to wed her to a character he is ordered from the other player. However, she can seduce the general if she has more than 35%.


    V - Objective Hotseat

    The Council of Nobles decided that each and every one of you should complete a couple objectives. Completing them will not only make you respectable and honourable, but also a true Lord of Middle-Earth. Worthy of ruling it.

    All players receive their personal victory objectives via PM.
    - Objectives will remain private!
    - All objectives must be completed to achieve victory.
    - Victory can be achieved by either completing all your objectives as provided by the admins, or as in any other hotseat, by destroying all other factions.


    - There are no rules, other than the ones below, to complete objectives. It doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you complete your objective!
    - If a player completes one of his objectives, it will not be shared to the other players by the admin.

    Last edited by Jadli; January 20, 2023 at 01:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    OP was finally updated with the list of basic rules and bugs recommended by Gaming Staff of the main section. If you think something should be changed or added ( the most important are bugs and exploits, so if you think there is some missing lemme know), send it to me in PM. Me and Dragon will discuss your suggestion.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I would still like to see the required number of units raised from 4 to 6, but I'm probably in the minority on this.

  4. #4
    ArBo's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I think 4 units is more or less a perfect number in regard to the amount of required units in a fort. I can certainly see where you're coming from, since a fort wall is often easily made and very hard to get around, which is particularly frustrating if you outnumber the enemy but you can't use this to your advantage because the forts force you to make yourself vunerable by besieging them.
    In this case though, the forts are being used as purely defensive tools. On the other hands, forts can be used to support highly aggressive playstyle, such as when you're besieging a settlement and building a fort at the bridge where a reinforcing army would have to cross. This increases the overall pace of the hotseat, and makes for interesting plays besides collecting stacks near the border and forting them up.
    If we were to increase the number of units neccesary for such a fort to 6, this would in many cases become unviable, and the pace of the hotseats would slow down a lot.

  5. #5
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    Well, in some older hotseats the rule was "at least 4 full units", so it might be a compromise to not make it so easy

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I could live with the four full strength units rule so long as it was enforced. I think that for the most part forts just slow down the game. This is especially true in westeros hotseats where the use of artillery and agents are prohibited. Which I hate more than anything else, because fort walls almost always happens in those hotseats. And they are largely unbreakable if done correctly.

  7. #7
    ArBo's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    The problem is that sometimes you can't spot some or all units in an enemy fort, and so you would have to ask the admin to check every time, or the rule will be mostly ignored anyway. The amount of units, on the other hand, is something that can easily be spotted anytime.
    I do agree though that purely the amount of units is a bad criterium, but requiring the units to be full ones just overcomplicates the matter imo.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    No, At some point you would gain vision of the units in a fort. Then if all the units weren't full strength you report it to the admin who handles it. Personalty, I think the appropriate repercussion would be to remove the fort from the map and render the player open to attack. The only way to ensure a rule is followed is if the repercussions are grave enough to prevent players from breaking the rule. A small fine would do nothing if the player has a rich faction with a decent war chest.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    Maybe something for Westeros, but there are so much ways to deal with forts here. Even 4 full units isnt required, being able to play around forts is part of the game and if you cant yet try to think of a way to make sure you are prepared next time.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I'll point out that bug #2 is not a bug at all, merely a personal preference.

    And that the cause of bug #4 is having an army adjacent to more than one garrison. A clear-cut way of preventing that bug from arising would be to ban building a fort within 2 spaces of another garrison (which would avoid situations like in TTFAF where there is no way to actually attack an army without the bug being triggered)
    Last edited by Ventos Mustel; December 02, 2016 at 12:29 PM.

    I am the Air Bud of Total War

  11. #11

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    Yeah, I was speaking for westeros exclusively. There is no way around a fort wall if it is erected turn one before you are allowed to step foot into enemy territory. Especially if the player uses high loyalty generals or princesses to prevent the fort from being bribed.

  12. #12
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I have been in talks with some members of MIITW Gaming group, and they actually found a way how to play hotseat with "online" battles. However, its going to be pretty complicated and demanding. Shortly, it works that way that when there is a battle, players take pics of all armies that attend it, and also the exact location where the battle takes a place. Then they use pre-made excel able, add there all units that attend, and general bonuses etc. After the online battle, all attendants have to take pics of result, put it into the table, etc.

    See your self http://www.mediafire.com/file/7fu0oj.../Britannia.xls and guide http://www.mediafire.com/file/dyy7bk...50n/Guide.docx

    (Thanks to /NC/_Tetri (steam name), who has told me about this and also translated the guide from russian and provided me with the table)

    There would be of course needed many more preparations, but let us know whether you would like to try play such HS.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I'd be interested

    I am the Air Bud of Total War

  14. #14
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I have seen few interesting rules in MTWII Gaming Group, some of them seem pretty intriguing and would bring an interesting change into the current playstyle if implemented.

    1) Siege rules applies:

    - Assault with no Siege Engine allowed, but
    - Siege equipment required - the same amount as all melee infantry units in the besieging army.


    2)
    More hardcore version

    * A wooden walled fort/town/castle may only be besieged if the assaulting army has at least one ballista unit.

    * A stone city/castle may only be besieged if the assaulting army has at least one catapult

    * A large stone city/fortress may only be besieged if the assaulting army has at least one trebuchet

    * Huge cities/citadels may not be assaulted with siege engine/equipment

    If the above criteria are met, then an army may build the following:

    At least 1 Battering Ram and as many ladders (or siege towers) as the army has formed foot units. (Not including archers, cavalry, artillery or Generals but including mercenary infantry) must be build in order to be allowed to assault a settlement

    Alternatively, if an besieging army does not fulfill the conditions above, it may only starve out the defenders.


    3) If you want to capture a settlement than you MUST occupy it. If you want to raid it, you can both sack or exterminate it but you MUST leave it the same turn.


    4) You can battle the same army only once per turn. (not really a new thing, but this rule hasnt been used for some time. Would like to hear if you would like to see this rule more often)


    What do you think? Would you like to try out these rules out?
    Last edited by Jadli; March 14, 2017 at 01:48 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I don't know if i'm 100% correct, but there is no way to spot enemy spies inside a settlement/fort with just assassins if it's properly counter-spy'd with good spies. No matter how good they are, they need a Spy already inside the settlement to spot them for the assassin to get the % odds to kill the garrisoned spy. So, players sometimes just post the screenshot of the assassination, but not the % odds of the spy that entered the settlement for the 'spotting job', cause they didn't capture no settlement.., they just went in for 'spotting', and there's no rule that demands this, unless there's a settlement capture; so, if for instance, the HS rule set specifies 30% odds as min. for a spy to get into a settlement.. When an assassination of a spy inside this settlement takes place, there should be TWO screenshots, one with the spy's % odds of entering the settlement, and then the assassin % odds of killing the garrisoned agent.
    "What enables the wise sovereign and the good general to strike and conquer,
    and achieve things beyond the reach of ordinary men, is foreknowledge."
    - Sun Tzu

  16. #16
    General Dragon.'s Avatar Champion of Dragons
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    To see if there is a spy in a fort/settlement for your assassins depends on the levels of the agents. Low level spies can be seen by high level assassins sometimes, but you can spot them with your own spies. If you move close to a settlement/fort you can see how many spies in there, for your assassin, but this depends on the agents level. To see how many spies inside even if you don't infiltrate into the settlement/fort you need a high level spy. If the enemy has multiple spies inside the lower leveled ones will get more easily revealed, while the higher might not. For instance there is 2 spy inside a settlement you have one spy and assassin. Your spy can spot for your assassin only one of the spy, which is lower level to the other one. If you kill that spy the other spy will get revealed for your assassin who can kill him next turn.
    If enemy spies inside a settlement/fort are high leveled like close to maximum and your spy level is around 5, 6 or 7 you might not be able to spot them for your assassins. This is the situation where you can only reveal them if you infiltrate into the settlement/fort and reveal them inside, however these will have like around 10% chances so you would need some reloading and luck.

    As for infiltrating to reveal spies for your assassins I don't think it was ever regulated this way. I mean it is generally accepted that you can infiltrate your spies into settlements to get exp when normally the rule wouldn't allow, because we use the spy infiltration rules for those scenarios where spies getting in could open gates for armies.
    If you would post pictures for every infiltration even if your armies aren't close just to get in and get some exp for your agents, all players would just reveal they have a spy there or around. I mean if you aren't at war with someone but you want to keep an eye if you infiltrate into one of the settlement the other player would know you are trying to spy on him. Leaving spies in the out makes them more easier to get revealed and killed and could also be used for reasoning for a war.

    The only way to get out spies from your settlements/forts is to ask an ally nation/player of yours to send a spy and a assassin to do that job.


    "The Dragon is wise, a sage among the ignorant. He knows not all that glitters is gold."

  17. #17
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    It seems like most of the "known bugs" are not bugs at all but merely features of the game that are contrary to how some people might prefer a hotseat campaign to work. However, the last few bugs do look like legitimate bugs (which I'm guessing are also present in single player campaigns), but I don't understand precisely what they're referring to. Could someone provide more explanation on how these bugs work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli
    7) Recruitment pool fill up - Quing up units in the recruitment sloots to increase artifically units/agents maximum number you can recruit in one settlement.

    8) Recruting mercenaries in forts with depleted movement points - Using forts to get illegal maximum movement points to mercenaries in a depleted army.

    9 ) Using ships to get more movement range - Using ships to give more movement range to armies on seas.

  18. #18
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    Well, its more like a list of bugs and exploits...

    Anyway, 1) is definitely a bug. It makes zero sense why the devs would do it intentionally. (and it works in SP as well of course)

    3) is also a clear bug. It basically happens when there are too many forts/settlements armies together. Then ome of the armies get bugged and dont participate in battle at all, happens quite often...

    5) Clearly also is bug. It happens when an army is supposed to enter into a fort (if there is enough unit slots for it), but instead it keeps retreating outside next to it, giving a huge advantage to the attacker. Normally, it would retreat into the fort unless, or if there are not enouhh spots, than usually elsewhere.

    7) Def works in SP as well. When you put a unit in a recruitment queue, it already starts replenishing. Hence, the more units you put into the queue, the more replenishment you have, and hence more units. There is like 10 spots, and only the 2-3 typically gets recruited at the moment, hence you can put there many units you dont even intend to recruit in the moment, or dont have money for them at the moment, and this way more of them will be availible. I suppose its not a huge issue for SP, as its less competitive. But typically if in a HS for example a player is supposed to have access to only one elite unit per 10 turns, this way he can have more.

    8) When you recruit mercenaries inside a fort, they always have full movement points, eventhough the general recruiting might have zero (or simply less). Normally, they always receive similar movement points as him when recruited outside.

    9) This is tyically just an additional tile or two, again doesnt prob matter for SP. But in hotseats, you often have to plan exactly where you put your troops, you test enemy movements, etc, so a tile or two means a lot. This bug gets created when you for example merge ships (one or two of them have units on it, etc)

    There are more bugs that those, will check if this thread miss some, as it hasnt been updated for some time. Then there are also those that shouldnt be revealed
    Last edited by Jadli; February 03, 2021 at 02:10 AM.

  19. #19
    Callistonian's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    I'm still not clear on what most of these are specifically referring to.

    1) It sounds like this is saying that when a fort or settlement is 1 tile adjacent to a sea tile, then fleets on that sea tile won't get locked by moving into it. I didn't know if was even possible to construct forts or place settlements 1 tile adjacent to sea tiles, does that throw an error in the log? I know you get an error when you try to put a settlement next to a river. Even if it is possible to put forts and settlements next to sea, it still doesn't seem a like a bug that fleets on those files aren't locked. That just means that the zone of control for forts and settlements only extends 1 tile over land.

    3) Can armies with no movement points ever participate in battles as reinforcements regardless of whether or not there is a fort or settlement present? Because it seems like the problem here is that these armies exhaust their movement points by moving next to the forts and then can't participate as reinforcements which seems like an intentional feature of the game. But I'm probably misunderstanding you.

    5) Are you referring to an actual "retreat", as in the first attempt to attack the army and they back up 2 tiles? Or are you referring to when you've already defeated the enemy army and the survivors flee to the closest allied territory? In the latter case, I've seen the survivors flee into forts. I'm not sure I've ever seen a retreat into a fort, usually they just back up 2 tiles in the direction you approached them from. I suppose if there happened to be a fort on the tile they land on, they might enter it but I've never gotten that lucky. In either case, if the enemy army normally enters the fort if there are enough open unit slots, then what is causing them to not enter it?

    7) I tried to reproduce this and what I found is that, normally, the "turns to next available unit" decrease by -1 per turn as long as the pool isn't maxed. For example, if you have a pool that starts at 1, increments are 0.25 per turn, and has a max of 2, then the "turns to next available unit" will count down every turn for the next 4 turns (assuming no other buildings or events or etc. happen that could affect the pool) until the pool reaches 2 (which means 2 units can now be trained simultaneously if you have the recruitment slots available for that). Once the pool is maxed, then the "turns to next available unit" does not decrease every turn but stays constant (it shows how long it would take for the pool to refresh after you train the next unit and hence add -1 to the pool). However, if you can avoid actually training (and hence buying) the unit in 1 turn (because the unit takes more than 1 turn to train or because you don't have the money or because you're using more recruitment slots than the settlement has available to it), then you can add the unit to the queue, end the turn, and then remove the unit from the queue on the next turn before it finished training. In this case, the pool size should have returned to what it was before but you will instead see that the "turns to next unit" value has decreased by 1, which indicates that the pool starts replenishing as soon as you add the unit to the queue instead of when the unit is finished training - this is surely a problem with the game code. Having noticed this bug, a clever play would then start loading up all 9 of their recruitment slots (most of which aren't available since, in a typical mod, the buildings would only unlock 2-3 slots as you said) every turn and, although the replenishment rate would technically stay the same, they would have larger unit pools than normal. What this exploit essentially does is increase the pool sizes for these units.

    This only works if you refrain from actually training the units because every time you do that you decrease the pool size by -1. So unless I'm missing something, this exploit can only be used to train a bunch of elite units at once from a settlement, perhaps to surprise an invading enemy. But it still took just as long as it normally would have for those units to replenish and become available to recruit normally and you're still paying the same amount in recruitment cost. The only savings you see is that you weren't paying upkeep on those units while the others replenished. As soon as you train all of them at once, you start paying upkeep on them, so the only tactical advantage I see with this is the element of surprise. If that's true, then this doesn't seem like a game-breaking exploit.

    8) Ah, I think I've actually heard of this bug before. This isn't a big deal for my mod as we mostly have 1 merc available per region, if any, but I can see how this would be a major problem for mods like Thera where you can recruit a full stack in mercs in every region on the map.

    9) I can't reproduce this. I tried putting some units on a ship, reducing this ship's movement points, then merging this ship with a larger fleet. The larger fleet's movement points were the same as the original ship's which is exactly how this work for land armies as well - the combined force gets the movement points of the constituent with the least movement points. I tried removing the original ship from the fleet so that the units would transfer to the fleet. This also had no effect - the fleet still had the movement points of the original ship which are, more actually, the naval movement points of the units on the ship (the original ship's movement points increase again once they offload the units).

    I would appreciate it if you could DM me any game-breaking bugs that are too exploitable to be posted publicly.

  20. #20
    Jadli's Avatar The Fallen God
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Innovations Discussion Thread

    1) No, this works for any tile, disembarking is broken. You can easily test it in amy mod... when you are disembarking, you can go through any Zone of Control tiles, no matter how far from the coast they are. (Hence that is forbidden)

    3) Afaik reinformencing doesnt have anything to do with movement points. Well, simply, when there are too many forts/settlements next to each other and armies around/between them, and you initiate a battle in such an area, some armies are simply not going to participate (eventhough they are in in such a position that they should have), depending from which direction, or which of those armies you attack. It doesnt happen often, and we have discovered any clear pattern to it.

    5) I mean when an army is defeated. Well, the question why they dont retreat inside forts when there is the space is why its a bug. There doesnt seem to be a clear pattern to it either. I suppose it might be some issue with pathfinding possibly (so maybe its fixed in some AI mods?), when something gets wrong calculated, and instead of retreating into a friendly territory (or a direction towards it), it tries to retreat to the fort, but cant, because there is not a space. And eventhough after being defeated again it could fit inside, the pathfinding is already irrevorcably bugged? Once this bug happens, it holds and doesnt go away, even if you defeat both, inside and outside army, several times, so they are almost reduced to dust. This happens relatively often, but that you actually see a general step in and outside the fort (as described in the list) doesnt happen that often, but it doesnt change anything for the army. I think this happens only for forts? Though not 100% right now.

    7) Indeed. Yea, well, I havent been so try harding as other hotseaters, so I never bothered try to exploit the game too much(before it was declared a bug), but I think you covered it well (will ask some other ppl to post their experience with these kinds of things). Finances are very important and upkeeps for elite units are much higher in many mods (and in some you cant freeupkeep), so this is perfect for you. Building up an army continuously eats more money, than spilling it all at once. If the unit takes more turns to recruit, what you can also do is let it almost recruit and then move it to the end of line. So indeed a great surprise and tactival advantage. Imagine if its being done in every settlement, would be huge. Not a game brekaing thing for singleplayer for sure, but it may matter a lot in a hotseats, depending on what kind of mod that is, and so on.

    9) Oh, I meant an aditional movement for the army, not the navy. The army (I suppose also agents) can get one or two.

    Will send some stuff later, gotta do some remembering
    Last edited by Jadli; February 03, 2021 at 03:32 PM.

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