Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.2r released!

[QuintusSertorius]

I think this time I really found a bug. I besieged a city that had a "Nomad" society mark, but I needed to make a ram anyway.

Not a bug, intentional to stop people being able to roll over camps without any kind of siege activity at all.

[tiepilot98]

Not a bug, intentional to stop people being able to roll over camps without any kind of siege activity at all.

Oh, I didn't notice an information in the description about "at least one ram". Sorry.

[bordinis]

I am playing Lusitanne at the moment.I noticed that CAI makes more |"factional|" governments than democracy or oligarchy. So noticed how roman and celtic armies are more centralized in more "factional troop stacks|" by a lot it seems. Huge win. Also noticed that Scutarii units a lil bit weaker in armour. So now, what is the difference betveen Scutarii spearmen and regular Lusitanne spearmen|? Were those Scutarii spearmen better equiped in armour and all that historically|?

[Trarco]

Also noticed that Scutarii units a lil bit weaker in armour. So now, what is the difference betveen Scutarii spearmen and regular Lusitanne spearmen|? Were those Scutarii spearmen better equiped in armour and all that historically|?

The current regular Lusitanne spearmen represent Lusitanian freemen separated from the more professional groups of military clients (our Lusitanian swordsmen). However, in theory, they can be considered a placeholder because in the distant future they can be replaced by Vettonian infantrymen. The current Iberian Scutarii spearmen represent Iberian free men who have adopted some elements of a Mediterranean panoply (like the thureos) because of the Carthaginian and even the Roman and Celtiberian influence. BTW, currently all the Iberian (i.e. the regional units of the eastern Iberian Peninsula) descriptions are placeholders (the only one that isn't a placeholder is the one of the caetrati spearmen), so they will be changed eventually and we will try to explain historical facts related with the panoply that will be related to your questions.

In regard with the better armour historically speaking, the most common Lusitanian armour was the linen armour (the chain mail was only available for the few). In the Iberian case, a few bronze helmets, a lot of leather helmets together with the thureos and the caetra were the main defensive panoply. The armour was secondary but when it was used, it was made of felt and leather (the traditional bronze cardiophylax was only available for the aristocracy and it was an archaic armour that wasn't used in the Iberian Peninsula anymore in the time frame of EB2).

[LusitanianWolf]

Great read Trarco! I'm particularly interested in ancient iberian history and currently playing a very interesting lusitanian campaign (through they have always been one of my favourite factions I didnt had a serious go with them in a very long time, probably since eb1).
You said the current lusitanian regular spearman are to be replaced by the vettonian infantry (im quite excited to know that more tribes are going to be represented ingame) does that mean that there's going to be a diferentiation of military roles between the tribes? Did the lusitanians historicaly have more tradition of fighting with swords and the vetonnes with spears or its a way to represent the diversity of tribes (in this case allied with each other) using less slots?
Will we eventualy have (in the future) units representing other peoples like the Astures, the Turduli, the Vacceus, the Edetani, the Ilergetes, etc? Also how would the armies of the diferent iberian peoples differ in terms of composition? I've been roleplaying tribal/local armies (ex: lusitanian/vettonian, callaecian, turdetanian, mauretanian) and would like to know if i should use difference in unit ratios and tactics.
My tipical 10-13 units field army composition is 1fm, 1-3 cavaly, 1-3 swordsman, 2-4 spearman, 2-4 skirmishers (with Neizes either occupying the skirmisher or spearman slots), would that be accurate? I've read (I think it was in a old mod, Iberia total war) that it was common to iberian armies to have 1/4 of cavalry, if true would that be appliable as a general rule to the iberic armies or only in certain tribes like the cantabrians and some celtiberians? Should i use scutati units as the heavy infantry core in late armies or should them be considered rare, kind of specialist/elite troops? How widespread and common did the thureos became in iberia?
Thank you for your atention and for the great work! I will post feedback and faction progression info soon.

Btw, love the music, Keltika Hispanna ftw! What are the other groups?
Also is there any way to reenable the battle horns/carnyx that would sound when commandd were given in some old versions? I understand many people didnt like them but I realy did!

[Trarco]

Great read Trarco! I'm particularly interested in ancient iberian history and currently playing a very interesting lusitanian campaign (through they have always been one of my favourite factions I didnt had a serious go with them in a very long time, probably since eb1).

If you like the Iberian factions, you should try the Celtiberians in the next big release, they will have new colonies (even with a specific one for Sicily), a lot of new governments, minor events and even some interesting traits and ancillaries that have been added by Genghis Skhan. Also, all the ethnicities of the Iberian Peninsula have been reworked and rewritten (even with some new ones like the ones that add Greek and Punic presence or more variety among the Celtiberian peoples). However, the Lusitanian faction is a bit "generic". We will change that in the future and we will add specific Lusitanian governments, colonies, reforms and a mission. Probably, the Lusitanian campaign will be much more enjoyable.

BTW, I am not sure if it appears in the description, but the Lusitanian elite unit is a placeholder. The description is also a placeholder.

You said the current lusitanian regular spearman are to be replaced by the vettonian infantry (im quite excited to know that more tribes are going to be represented ingame) does that mean that there's going to be a diferentiation of military roles between the tribes? Did the lusitanians historicaly have more tradition of fighting with swords and the vetonnes with spears or its a way to represent the diversity of tribes (in this case allied with each other) using less slots?

The rough idea is that you won't play as a Lusitanian anymore. Instead, you will play with several independent confederations (Callaeci + northern Lusitanians, Lusitanians + Celtici + Vettones + Turdetani + Bastetani, Vettones + Celtiberians + Vaccaei, etc). However you will have more options, like developing a minor kingdom (it won't be easy) or plundering other areas where you will have both allies and enemies.

In this way, it will be some differences among the roles of these peoples as you say, for example, among the second confederation, the Lusitanians would be the hegemonic people, the Vettones and Celtici would be close allies, and the Turdetani and Bastetani would be "less traditional allies".

Historically speaking, Vettones and Lusitanians would have had a similar panoply, so again as you say, this is a way to represent the diversity of tribes using less slots.

Will we eventualy have (in the future) units representing other peoples like the Astures, the Turduli, the Vacceus, the Edetani, the Ilergetes, etc?

The limitation of the slots doesn't allow us to have all the Iberian peoples, but more or less yes: in the future we will have some new ones like the Celtici, the Carpetani, the Vaccaei, the Vettones, the Ilergetes and the Turdetani.

Also how would the armies of the diferent iberian peoples differ in terms of composition? I've been roleplaying tribal/local armies (ex: lusitanian/vettonian, callaecian, turdetanian, mauretanian) and would like to know if i should use difference in unit ratios and tactics.
My tipical 10-13 units field army composition is 1fm, 1-3 cavaly, 1-3 swordsman, 2-4 spearman, 2-4 skirmishers (with Neizes either occupying the skirmisher or spearman slots), would that be accurate? I've read (I think it was in a old mod, Iberia total war) that it was common to iberian armies to have 1/4 of cavalry, if true would that be appliable as a general rule to the iberic armies or only in certain tribes like the cantabrians and some celtiberians? Should i use scutati units as the heavy infantry core in late armies or should them be considered rare, kind of specialist/elite troops? How widespread and common did the thureos became in iberia?

Probably in the future (when we will have more units) I will have to post a better "guide" about this matter, but as a rough idea:

-More or less, each unit could represent around 1.000 men.The armies of the Iberian Peninsula could be formed by small armies whose objective was to plunder a neighbouring area, in this case, the army was formed by a few hundred of warriors (difficult to represent in game). The main Celtiberian city-states were able to gather around 3.000-8.000 warriors (thanks to the population of the countryside) and a complete Celtiberian confederation in extreme cases, around 25.000-30.000 warriors. You can use this scheme for the Lusitanians.


In the case of the Iberians (the eastern populations), the most important chiefs/kings that ruled over several oppida and had a lot of clients were able to lead armies of 3.000-7.000 warriors. And finally, the biggest Iberian confederations were formed by 25.000-40.000 warriors.

-In regards to the tactics, Iberians and Celtiberians are very similar. Pitched battles, the skirmishers start the battle, and after that the line infantry try to break the enemy lines. The cavalry is just used to support the infantry. If you want to represent this fact, your cavalry should be focus on the use of javelins and soliferra instead of just making numerous charges since the start of the battle.

The sources show that like the above cases, the Lusitanians were able to fight in close order in pitched battles (the traditional guerrilla is just a stereotype), however, in this case, the Lusitanians were able to move fastly: an army splitted in groups of warriors or using the feigned retreat could be good ideas, although I don't know if they will be useful in game.

Additionally, you can develop a wedge formation with the Celtiberians. They used it against the Romans several times. So, try to gather your best troops in the centre, and after that develop a wedge, finally you could try to charge in order to break the centre of the enemy lines.

-In regards to the proportions, we have several examples in the Ilergetes and Celtiberian armies. As a generic rule for the infantry of all the Iberian Peninsula: 1/3 skirmishers and 2/3 of line infantry. About the cavalry, 1/4 of cavalry is just appropriate for a Celtiberian confederation (25.000-30.000). In the case of the Iberian and Lusitanian armies you should reduce the horsemen. For example, the Ilergetes (a classic Iberian army) gathered 2.500 horsemen, but the Celtiberian confederation leaded by Segeda and Numantia had around 5.000 cavalrymen.

-The thureos wasn't common in Celtiberia and Lusitania (however some future units will have it). Among the Iberians it was more common thanks to the contacts with Carthage (maybe since the IV century B.C. according to the last researches). So, you can create a core of warriors that use the thureos if you develop an Iberian army (i.e. non-Celtiberian/Lusitanian), however, that doesn't mean that you should forget the caetrati, the caetra was always the traditional shield in the Iberian Peninsula, and it was even used by the auxiliares that fought in the Roman armies.

-About the FM, Lusitanians should use one. Iberians and Celtiberians can use one or even two (since there were some cases in which there were two generals). It's your decision.

Thank you for your atention and for the great work! I will post feedback and faction progression info soon.

Thanks for that future feedback


EDIT:

Btw, love the music, Keltika Hispanna ftw! What are the other groups?Also is there any way to reenable the battle horns/carnyx that would sound when commandd were given in some old versions? I understand many people didnt like them but I realy did!

Thanks to Keltika Hispanna we have some great songs! The other "group" is Ángel Román Ramírez, he has composed most of the amazing songs we are using for the Iberian factions and he will appear in the credits of the new release. Some links to his webs:

https://www.youtube.com/user/angelromanramirez/videos

https://angelromanramirez.bandcamp.com/


In the Iberian Peninsula, the peoples didn't use the carnyx, but I think Kull is working on adding the sound of the Celtiberian "trompas" when command an Iberian army. The sound (min 30:58):

[bordinis]

Thank you for your answer, Trarco I was so stupid to think when EB2 team removed few cavalry units in the peninsula, that this is it, no more units for these two factions, no one of us knew that whole Lusitannan faction was a placeholder lol.. ;D

[Trarco]

Thank you for your answer, Trarco I was so stupid to think when EB2 team removed few cavalry units in the peninsula, that this is it, no more units for these two factions, no one of us knew that whole Lusitannan faction was a placeholder lol.. ;D

You are welcome. Actually only the spearmen and the elite would be placeholders, the other ones aren't (the limited resources don't allow us to focus on the existing units, so the new ones have preference). And yes, the heavy cavalry didn't exist in Iberia, so we simply removed them in order to add new peoples of the Peninsula

[LusitanianWolf]

If you like the Iberian factions, you should try the Celtiberians in the next big release

I surely will, though I'm the kind of player that likes to play with every faction so I will probably make some games in the east and the steppes before returning to sweet home hispania ^^ [/QUOTE]

BTW, I am not sure if it appears in the description, but the Lusitanian elite unit is a placeholder. The description is also a placeholder.

It did in previous versions but not anymore. I like them as they are but yeah, I'll be eagerly waiting to know what the more definite version will be!

The rough idea is that you won't play as a Lusitanian anymore. Instead, you will play with several independent confederations (Callaeci + northern Lusitanians, Lusitanians + Celtici + Vettones + Turdetani + Bastetani, Vettones + Celtiberians + Vaccaei, etc). However you will have more options, like developing a minor kingdom (it won't be easy) or plundering other areas where you will have both allies and enemies.

The limitation of the slots doesn't allow us to have all the Iberian peoples, but more or less yes: in the future we will have some new ones like the Celtici, the Carpetani, the Vaccaei, the Vettones, the Ilergetes and the Turdetani.

Great to know! I'm quite happy with the current diversity of iberian units and would prioritize more love put into other areas like the steppes and northern europe that lack a bit in tribal diversity but I'm already drooling at the idea of more iberian regionals!
Quite curious especialy about the Celtici as I don't know almost anything about them....

Probably in the future (when we will have more units) I will have to post a better "guide" about this matter, but as a rough idea:
(...)

Thank you, very useful information

Thanks to Keltika Hispanna we have some great songs! The other "group" is Ángel Román Ramírez, he has composed most of the amazing songs we are using for the Iberian factions and he will appear in the credits of the new release. Some links to his webs:


In the Iberian Peninsula, the peoples didn't use the carnyx, but I think Kull is working on adding the sound of the Celtiberian "trompas" when command an Iberian army. The sound (min 30:58):

Great to know!


Thank you overall for your awesome reply and for your work in the mod!

[Apani]

I found another typo: "Masallia" in the Arverni faction description. Also Keloi.

[Kaskad]

eb.system.log.rar

HI
Playing 2.2G with Hayasdan
I encounter a CTD each time I try to play this battle (sieging Kutatisi) when the AI tries to break the siege. The CTD occurs randomly during the battle
Could someone help me check the log try to find where the error comes from ?

[Kaskad]

siege Kutatisi.rar

here is the save file, if someone wants to give a try ...

[QuintusSertorius]

eb.system.log.rar

HI
Playing 2.2G with Hayasdan
I encounter a CTD each time I try to play this battle (sieging Kutatisi) when the AI tries to break the siege. The CTD occurs randomly during the battle
Could someone help me check the log try to find where the error comes from ?

Regular processing, then an inexplicable crash:

22:51:02.175 [game.script.exec] [trace] exec <inc_counter> at line 38911 in mods/ebii/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt
22:51:02.175 [game.script.counter] [trace] counter <command_and_control> = 25
22:51:02.175 [game.script.exec] [trace] exec <if> at line 38913 in mods/ebii/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt
22:51:02.175 [game.script.exec] [trace] exec <inc_counter> at line 38969 in mods/ebii/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt
22:51:02.175 [game.script.counter] [trace] counter <deploy_check> = 4400
22:51:02.175 [game.script.exec] [trace] exec <if> at line 38971 in mods/ebii/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt
22:51:02.175 [game.script.exec] [trace] exec <if> at line 39084 in mods/ebii/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt
22:51:03.557 [system.rpt] [error] Unspecified error. Please compress your error log in a zip format and upload it on the EBII technical help forum.

Nothing illuminating there.

[Imperial Pudding Head]

Playing as nabatu turn 50-60ish, everything is great so far, parthians going south, saka is no longer a 2 province weaksauce and the yellow fever is back in action kicking the grey death out of syria, carthage is taking cyrene, rome took corsica, and in a twist of fate the greek trio traded cities with makedon taking epidamnos, kh took demetrias, and epirus took korinthos

Although some faction is a bit slow, KB and getai haven't improved and haven't expand there has been too much peace in gaul, and tbh the seleukids dies down waay too fast for my tastes, boii also always seems to be ganged up by sweboz and lugians although I haven't saw them losing yet

Army composition has been good so far with one weird exception, there's a sabaean stack that I just beat that have merc phalanx, merc hoplites, galatians, celt cavs, hippeis, and even thessalians, dunno how they got that but I saw them going on a little trip from ethiopia before they kicked the bucket so maybe smth is wrong with the merc pool there, will check again

And I may have done goofed this time as after the aforementioned battle with the sabaeans I decided to take post battle shots of my units before closing the victory screen. I figured to use the scroll lock function to get rid of everything and now I can't get out of that battle since the victory screen won't come back. Any help would be appreciated

[melvidh]

And I may have done goofed this time as after the aforementioned battle with the sabaeans I decided to take post battle shots of my units before closing the victory screen. I figured to use the scroll lock function to get rid of everything and now I can't get out of that battle since the victory screen won't come back. Any help would be appreciated

Hello,

Dunno whats exactly the issue, but if you already "won" the battle and didnt finish it ( when all foes were running away) and instead you were chasing them down till they leave the map ( as i usually do) , if you press esc key and select finish battle, it will finish as your victory. Dunno if this can help.

Regards:

melvidh

[LusitanianWolf]

Some feedback on the first 200 turns of my campaign as Leusitane (2.2g, H/M)

Faction progression pictures (post #325)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?664119-EB-2-X-AI-Faction-Progression-Thread&p=15265515&viewfull=1#post15265515

The first 100 turns were pretty calm. My starting moves were to take Baeturia (Nertobriga was unguarded, I gess its guarrison was in the place Ebora used to be, so they merged wih the roaming army for a epic field battle) and also Callaecia and to fight of eleutheroi armies wandering near or inside my borders. After that I spend like 90 turns raiding Carpetania and Cantabria and later Turdetania... The Cartaginians didn't reacted at all at my incursions into their territories (probably busy in Sicily and Africa or just too letargic) while the Celtiberians were gaining influence and power in central and north iberia so Gader was submitted and the punics expelled. Later IIRC they would agreed to a fugacious peace and trade treaty. In the meaningwhile most factions were slowly expanding into eleutheroi lands.

After turn 100 there was a notorious increase in agression between AI factions. The Cartaginians never tried to recover iberian lands and didn't put much efford in stopping me gaining and mantaining influence in north africa (probably because they were too busy defending their capital from constant numidian attacks). Most factions started wars (sooner or later) that never stopped ever since. The Lugian were horded, the Makedonians and Bakrians destroyed (later reemerged). I don't remember ever seeing a peace treaty and the only alliances ongoing are mine with Areuakoi and Massilians, AS with Hayastan and Ptolomies with Pergamese. I think the switch between reasonable and bloodthirsty AI stances don't seem to work as intended.

Also, lots of naval activity and seaborn invasions! Finally the Romans are behaving in a way more historical, securing italy and after lots of naval activity, seizing mediterranian islands (though the punics still resist in Sicily and I've sucessfull defended the Balearics twice), and launching a massive land based invasion through southern gaul to Iberia (that was halted by my joint action with the Celtiberians). The closing of the Alpine pass and the changes to the AI really payed off!

I will add more feedback later.

[melvidh]

Hello,

I am playing a KH campaign 2.2g VH/M.

KH reform went like a charm but once i have built some kh8 goverments , greek league menber state i think is name, i have discovered that they lack the siege weapons in his recruitment roster. thats a bug, right?
The 2 kh7, greek league founding state , have the siege weaps in his roster though.

Regards:

melvidh

[QuintusSertorius]

Hello,

I am playing a KH campaign 2.2g VH/M.

KH reform went like a charm but once i have built some kh8 goverments , greek league menber state i think is name, i have discovered that they lack the siege weapons in his recruitment roster. thats a bug, right?
The 2 kh7, greek league founding state , have the siege weaps in his roster though.

Regards:

melvidh

Not a bug. For the other Hellenistic factions, they can only recruit them in their top-tier government, which is limited to up to three. For KH, that's the Founding Leagues (up to four of them). They can put Sympoliteia governments anywhere, so it would be excessive if they were unique in being able to get siege weaponry anywhere they liked.

[MrBlack103]

Holy shizballs why did I only just now notice that EB2 has facial animation on various units? That's awesome!

[Wulfburk]

Guys plz its a minor bug that ive repeatedly reported since the first release but still gone unnoticed....

Sweboz still speaks english in the campaign map. Diplomats, stacks, everything. Im not saying add a germanic language, just take out those english voices and leave it empty, like some other factions have it. Its basically still the reason why i havent played Sweboz yet in EB2. A real immersive breaker.......... IIRC Lugiones has the same problem.