Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Kingdom of Castile

[tomtucker]

First of all, the Kingdom of Castile is one of my favourites factions and in my opinion this is a very good looking roster so thank you for all your work, but i have some questions:1. is this the final roster? 2. the adventurers and the religious military orders would be recruitable in every city and in every moment or are they like special units? 3. will the rodeleros shield be changed for other one more similar to a rodela? 4. why the spanish knights and the equestres militares horses are not barding?
Thats all and as i said great job and thank you for the work and the answers

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

I took some time to re-look the Castilian roster. In particular re-did my original interpretation of Almogavars, and redesigned them to look a bit more along the lines of how they are described in sources:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also re-worked the VMDs for the early knights so they were a bit more color-coordinated:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For the High and Late period units, I think I didn't do a good-enough job 'regionalizing' their look, so I went ahead and completely re-worked them to make them look more 'spanish' in appearance. In particular, for the knights this meant removing most of the pauldrons, because in Spain (as well as Italy) it was more in fashion to cover the plate in cloth or maille. Also, late-period spanish knights seemed to prefer kettle helms, so I made those more predominant. Armets and greathelms are only present on mounted units (like I did with the French roster) because they were a severe impediment in combat on foot. Here is the result:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Caballeros (High)




Caballeros (Late)

Next, I took some of the new assets and added them to flesh out the look of the roster, changing the military order troops significantly. I also changed the high and late period Calatrava cloaks to black, as I found out recently that they switched from white to black by this time:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lastly, I added new assets and color-coordinated the late period units better. I also added rondels to the sides of some of the sallets, which is something you see a lot in period artwork:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, in case you didn't guess from my earlier post, Don Quixote will be a special general for Castile in Custom Battle mode. The unit only has 2 men and is pretty weak, but it amuses me to see them running around on the battlefield

[anders99]

looks fantastic!

[Knight2708]

I took some time to re-look the Castilian roster. In particular re-did my original interpretation of Almogavars, and redesigned them to look a bit more along the lines of how they are described in sources:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also re-worked the VMDs for the early knights so they were a bit more color-coordinated:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For the High and Late period units, I think I didn't do a good-enough job 'regionalizing' their look, so I went ahead and completely re-worked them to make them look more 'spanish' in appearance. In particular, for the knights this meant removing most of the pauldrons, because in Spain (as well as Italy) it was more in fashion to cover the plate in cloth or maille. Also, late-period spanish knights seemed to prefer kettle helms, so I made those more predominant. Armets and greathelms are only present on mounted units (like I did with the French roster) because they were a severe impediment in combat on foot. Here is the result:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Caballeros (High)




Caballeros (Late)

Next, I took some of the new assets and added them to flesh out the look of the roster, changing the military order troops significantly. I also changed the high and late period Calatrava cloaks to black, as I found out recently that they switched from white to black by this time:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lastly, I added new assets and color-coordinated the late period units better. I also added rondels to the sides of some of the sallets, which is something you see a lot in period artwork:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, in case you didn't guess from my earlier post, Don Quixote will be a special general for Castile in Custom Battle mode. The unit only has 2 men and is pretty weak, but it amuses me to see them running around on the battlefield

Except for the Almogavars and military order troops, I kind of prefer the old look tbh. These new units all look very uniform, especially the late period gunners, pikemen and rodeleros. Personally I thought the old look did a perfect job at combining the more heterogeneous medieval look with early signs of the more uniform appearance of a professional army, but I feel that this new look goes too far in terms of uniformity.

[miguelmm]

I took some time to re-look the Castilian roster. In particular re-did my original interpretation of Almogavars, and redesigned them to look a bit more along the lines of how they are described in sources:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also re-worked the VMDs for the early knights so they were a bit more color-coordinated:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For the High and Late period units, I think I didn't do a good-enough job 'regionalizing' their look, so I went ahead and completely re-worked them to make them look more 'spanish' in appearance. In particular, for the knights this meant removing most of the pauldrons, because in Spain (as well as Italy) it was more in fashion to cover the plate in cloth or maille. Also, late-period spanish knights seemed to prefer kettle helms, so I made those more predominant. Armets and greathelms are only present on mounted units (like I did with the French roster) because they were a severe impediment in combat on foot. Here is the result:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Caballeros (High)




Caballeros (Late)

Next, I took some of the new assets and added them to flesh out the look of the roster, changing the military order troops significantly. I also changed the high and late period Calatrava cloaks to black, as I found out recently that they switched from white to black by this time:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lastly, I added new assets and color-coordinated the late period units better. I also added rondels to the sides of some of the sallets, which is something you see a lot in period artwork:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, in case you didn't guess from my earlier post, Don Quixote will be a special general for Castile in Custom Battle mode. The unit only has 2 men and is pretty weak, but it amuses me to see them running around on the battlefield

First, fantastic units and faction, but I have to ask, why do you remove the headband on caballeros helmet? As you posted on post # 21 they appeared to be dressed by Castilian knights for that time.
As a faction, Castile is by far, my favorite one, however, there is an error with the shield shown on the faction banner, which represents the red and yellow strips of the flag of the Crown of Aragon, which was an independet kingdom throughout The XVth century (anyway, both banners, Castile and Aragon first appeared merged in 1473, after the wedding of Elizabeth I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon).
The same error occurs with the use of the cross of Burgundy, which was not used by the Spaniards until the first half of the XVIth century. This mistake I think is worst, beacause it wasn't until the reign Charles V of Holy Roman Empire that the Crown of Castile and the Duchy of Burgundy were under the control of the same monarch.

[abelaxor]

If I can ask, How much do you think it would take you finish this mod?

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

First, fantastic units and faction, but I have to ask, why do you remove the headband on caballeros helmet? As you posted on post # 21 they appeared to be dressed by Castilian knights for that time.

Crap, you're right. Don't remember why I removed the bands and feathers. I'll add those back in there before we release the faction.

there is an error with the shield shown on the faction banner, which represents the red and yellow strips of the flag of the Crown of Aragon, which was an independet kingdom throughout The XVth century (anyway, both banners, Castile and Aragon first appeared merged in 1473, after the wedding of Elizabeth I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon).

Tier 3 represents then entire 15th century. I made a conscious decision to go with the arms after the union of the crowns, so that all 3 tiers would have distinctive banners.

error occurs with the use of the cross of Burgundy, which was not used by the Spaniards until the first half of the XVIth century. This mistake I think is worst, beacause it wasn't until the reign Charles V of Holy Roman Empire that the Crown of Castile and the Duchy of Burgundy were under the control of the same monarch.

Ok, so I have some explaining to do with this...First of all, I have been to many places in Europe, but Central Spain is my favorite place. I love the people, I love the architecture, I love the culture, the climate, it's amazing and I wish I lived there. When I started making this faction, I was really caught up in the golden age of Spain, with the tercios, pike and shot, the Alatriste adventures and all of that. But, since the mod ends in 1500, technically I couldn't do any of that, and that made me really sad. Also, there were a lot of people asking me about making tercios and whatnot, so I know it would disappoint them as well. This mod has some room for...creative interpretation, because some things in history developed because of very specific things that happened caused them to be so, and those things likely won't happen the same way in the mod. Mostly, I avoid this 'creative interpretation' where I can, but sometimes I have to, such as the case with the Kingdom of Jerusalem and Cyprus, which did not exist all the way to 1500, and has very little sources to tell us how their soldiers dressed anyway. This sort of thing will likely happen with Spain, because by the time the player progresses to Tier 3 as Castile, it's very likely you will at least have conquered all of the Iberian peninsula. Or, maybe you went north and conquered France or Britain. The point is, things in game's campaign probably won't go exactly the same as they did in real life. Heck, in this mod, Portugal or Aragon or the Andalusians might conquer castile and it doesn't even exist by Tier 3.

A few things happened: I designed the whole faction with the colors red/white/yellow/black, and tier 3 around a color-coded uniform system, with missile units being black/yellow, melee units red-black, and polearm units red/white. That symbol, the red cross on an all white field is very recognizable as a Spanish symbol, from a time when the Spanish Empire was at its height, and fits perfectly with the color scheme. In my mind, nothing symbolizes the awesome military might of a united Spain like that cross, so I just had to use it. Personally, as a military history buff, I really wanted to incorporate the amazing Spanish military innovations into the mod for the late period, so I stretched the timeline a bit to encompass a portion of the 16th century, so the tier 3 is a sort of fusion between the late 15th century Castilian military and the early-mid 16th century Spanish military.

So, there's my explanation. I know it's not a great one, and I'll probably get pressured into changing it at some point, but for now I'm working on other factions so I don't have the time anyway. There is the addition of the rodelero shields that I want to be made, so maybe I'll make the change once those are finished. I hope this makes sense, and I value accurate historical portrayals just as much as anyone, so believe me I understand your consternation.

Thanks a lot for your comments, I'm glad that otherwise you like the faction. It is an honor to get that sort of praise from an actual Spaniard.

[miguelmm]

Thanks for the answer. I just try to help as long as I can. I also think so that it's very appropiate to include such vibrant way of dressing, basically cause it was indeed in that time when that way of dress begun, making that way the Spanish armies to be known in the XVIth century in the whole Continent by its colourful uniforms.

You are also right by making some kind of "tercios". Despite the whole army did not follow that strcuture completely until the first half of the XVIth century , it is truth that the first time an army was structured following that way (pikemen and arquebusiers mainly) was the Castilian Army in the War of Granada in 1492, with success.

What I mean definitely, is that I agree your explanation, the possibility in the mod of achieving the unification of the Iberian Peninsula by the Crown of Castile at the beggining of the XVth century, or even the conquest of territories in north-western Europe, is a very certain possibility, and makes sense.

I'm also very grateful for your words, the center and center-north of Spain is very little known abroad in comparison with the coastal regions or the isles (with the exception of Madrid, I suppose), and it has a lot to offer, here one can feel a big part of the essence of this country, the Castilian essence concretely.

Thanks a lot for your work and for your words.

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

I also think so that it's very appropiate to include such vibrant way of dressing, basically cause it was indeed in that time when that way of dress begun, making that way the Spanish armies to be known in the XVIth century in the whole Continent by its colourful uniforms.

Thanks! One thing I hate about many modern portrayals of the middle ages in general is the use of very dull, boring colors. Not just the Spanish, but most medievals were very colorful! You can see it in their manuscripts and in surviving pieces of clothing and armor. I strive to make all my units colorful.

I'm also very grateful for your words, the center and center-north of Spain is very little known abroad in comparison with the coastal regions or the isles (with the exception of Madrid, I suppose), and it has a lot to offer, here one can feel a big part of the essence of this country, the Castilian essence concretely.

Thanks a lot for your work and for your words.

This is so true. Though I hope it stays a secret, because I liked that there were few tourists by comparison.

Central Spain really captured my imagination. In addition to my love of the middle ages, I am also into American Western films and books. I am from Southern California/Arizona, and I live in Texas now, so the dry deserts of the American West are very much a part of my blood. Central Spain's climate is very similar to these places (in fact a lot of the old Spaghetti Westerns were in fact filmed there), so it's so cool to me that it is a place which combines--in my mind--the wide open spaces and beautiful deserts of the west, and yet everywhere you look are the ruins of medieval castles. So Central Spain combines my two favorite things in the world!

[Slytacular]

Personally, as a military history buff, I really wanted to incorporate the amazing Spanish military innovations into the mod for the late period, so I stretched the timeline a bit to encompass a portion of the 16th century, so the tier 3 is a sort of fusion between the late 15th century Castilian military and the early-mid 16th century Spanish military.

For the sake of game design, that is a big no no. We have to keep tier 3 within the 15th century because everybody else is doing that for their faction rosters. Otherwise it wouldn't be fair to the rest of us that you are including 16th century style of units, and that could potentially bend the authenticity of the time period we're trying to portray. Every faction has their own turn of the 16th century progression and evolution. I would rather you attempt to portray the army that led to the down fall of Granada, than an army that resembles the might of Charles V.

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

For the sake of game design, that is a big no no. We have to keep tier 3 within the 15th century because everybody else is doing that for their faction rosters. Otherwise it wouldn't be fair to the rest of us that you are including 16th century style of units, and that could potentially bend the authenticity of the time period we're trying to portray. Every faction has their own turn of the 16th century progression and evolution. I would rather you attempt to portray the army that led to the down fall of Granada, than an army that resembles the might of Charles V.

So, I really didn't explain that well. Really the only 16th century anachronism is the cross of burgundy. It doesn't affect the balance of the game, not that that's really an excuse. Tercio is a way of organizing troops for a new sort of tactical employment that happened in the 16th century. Otherwise, the Spanish did have Pikemen, handgunners, and halberdiers in the 15th century. It would be up to the player to use those units like the tercios if he wants to. This decision came out of a whole discussion between me and several people in the Toulouse thread.

[Heisenburrg]

Perfect adjustments!

[Visarion]

Cool

[Knight2708]

Just to add to my earlier post, as i cant edit my post for some reason, I just wanted to clarify that I dont think the new units look bad or anything, I just thought that the old look was perfect. Personally I generally think (unless taken to unreasonable extremes of course) that its usually better to have more different colors and assets within a unit. Realism aside, I feel that greater diversity makes the whole unit feel more alive and highlights the look of individual soldiers. Basically, in a more uniform looking unit, the soldiers' looks can fuse into one and it becomes difficult to focus on specific details, whereas if a unit is less uniform the contrast between two soldiers will make both stand out more and give he observer a focal point to concentrate on.

[Gongo80]

don't ask, they are very sensitive on it
i open the forum twice a day, and hope for he miracle

[Ltd.]

If we knew, we would have told you by now , don't ya think ?
We are working on a new update with several faction and unit additions and eventually there will be a campaign as well.

[miguelmm]

This is so true. Though I hope it stays a secret, because I liked that there were few tourists by comparison.

Central Spain really captured my imagination. In addition to my love of the middle ages, I am also into American Western films and books. I am from Southern California/Arizona, and I live in Texas now, so the dry deserts of the American West are very much a part of my blood. Central Spain's climate is very similar to these places (in fact a lot of the old Spaghetti Westerns were in fact filmed there), so it's so cool to me that it is a place which combines--in my mind--the wide open spaces and beautiful deserts of the west, and yet everywhere you look are the ruins of medieval castles. So Central Spain combines my two favorite things in the world!

What a coincidence!, I've just been last saturday in the location where was filmed the scene of the Cemetery of Sad Hill in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, in the Province of Burgos. Although it was dismantled after the filming, an important part of the Cemetery was rebuilt last year for the 50th annivesary of the film. I also visited the places where the scenes of the battle of the bridge and the interiors of the old mission were filmed. It was an amazing experience!

So, I really didn't explain that well. Really the only 16th century anachronism is the cross of burgundy. It doesn't affect the balance of the game, not that that's really an excuse. Tercio is a way of organizing troops for a new sort of tactical employment that happened in the 16th century. Otherwise, the Spanish did have Pikemen, handgunners, and halberdiers in the 15th century. It would be up to the player to use those units like the tercios if he wants to. This decision came out of a whole discussion between me and several people in the Toulouse thread.

Moreover, as I stated before, the first appereance of a tercio-like strcutured army was in the War of Granada and in the Italian Wars, both at the end of the 15th century, under the command of Gonzálo Fernández de Córdoba (aka "The Great Captain"). Therefore, the inclusion of such units in the game would coincide with the historical reality.

[zsimmortal]

Moreover, as I stated before, the first appereance of a tercio-like strcutured army was in the War of Granada and in the Italian Wars, both at the end of the 15th century, under the command of Gonzálo Fernández de Córdoba (aka "The Great Captain"). Therefore, the inclusion of such units in the game would coincide with the historical reality.

From what I've read, the first prototype of the Spanish Tercio was in the 1497 campaign. While it's not technically out of the mod's range (very generously speaking, as Tercios are much more of a 16th century thing), if we start making exceptions for this type of stuff, it opens up a pandora's box for all factions.

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

Whether or not Tercios existed within the scope of the mod is not the issue here. Again, Tercio is a way of organizing and deploying troops. It really has no bearing on the units themselves. A unit of pikemen is just pikemen, handgunners are just handgunners. The only way you could create a 'tercio' would be if you recruited the right amount of each and maneuvered them using tercio style tactics. But that is completely under the control of the player, and has nothing to do with how the individual units are. The pikemen and handgunners in this mod are modeled after mid-late 15th century castilian pikemen and handgunners, with the one anachronism of the cross of burgundy--only on the pikemen-- (which was used in the 15th century) as a sort of homage to the 16th century spanish military which is outside the scope of the mod.

[zsimmortal]

Whether or not Tercios existed within the scope of the mod is not the issue here. Again, Tercio is a way of organizing and deploying troops. It really has no bearing on the units themselves. A unit of pikemen is just pikemen, handgunners are just handgunners. The only way you could create a 'tercio' would be if you recruited the right amount of each and maneuvered them using tercio style tactics. But that is completely under the control of the player, and has nothing to do with how the individual units are. The pikemen and handgunners in this mod are modeled after mid-late 15th century castilian pikemen and handgunners, with the one anachronism of the cross of burgundy--only on the pikemen-- (which was used in the 15th century) as a sort of homage to the 16th century spanish military which is outside the scope of the mod.

There's more to units than just their role. It can be the name, what they look like, their equipment, etc. Everything looks fine in those regards, minus the cross of Burgundy (which I personally don't find that huge a deal, honestly). I was just responding to the Spanish poster who thought Tercios should have a place in the mod (however that would be applied). Next thing you know, the Polish Hussars will have wings because there was Hussars in Poland and Winged Hussars aren't that far off and are so cool and important. That's what I want to avoid at all costs. I don't really have a problem with your Castilian roster., it's perfectly fine and looks good IMO.