Erdogan's prelude to war.

[AnthoniusII]

In the thread about the latest coop in Turkey i wrote that the Turkish leadership will have some delimas to solve inorder to re-unite Turkey's heavily divided society.
What we know for start is the fact that Turkey had managed -so far- to hide more or less how divide its society was by :
a) The finasial status of several areas such the "rich west" over the poor east.
b) The tribal /racial divisions by minorities such Alevites or Kurds (if a 20 milion population over a total of 78 ones can be seen as typical minority), Asyrians.
c) The religion separation between the modern Muslims and the fanatic ones.

Few days ago Erdogan made a speach that said that Turkey CAN NOT longer stay in the borders of the International Treaties but to act according to the "borders of their hearts".
In his "arguments" pointed out the Muslim populations that still live in Bulgaria, in Greece , the turkmenic populations of Mosul and northern Syria. An other argument was the existance in those areas Muslim Ottoman Mosques and other sights that give Turkey the "right" to interfear to "protect" them. Erdogan called his vision about the new Ottoman Expansion as the "New Contract" with the Turkish nation.
After Erdogan's speach Turkish ministers talked the Turkey's right over 16 Greek islands simply because they were in some era Ottoman islands and because they are closer to Turkey than Greek mainland. Also other turkish officials spoke about the right Turkey has to "protect" the Mulsim populations in Greek and Bulgarian Thrace as "protector" of their faith.
On the other side Turkey apears its self as protector of Mosul's Suni Muslims against the legitimate Iraqi goverment that has a Shia Mulsim majority in this time.
In the last week in the Aegean mutiple "Dogfights" between Greek and Turkish planes too over going to close to open fire to each other.
A Turkish Frigade went to Castelorizo Greek island (inside the 6 miles teritorial waters) and tried to force a Greek Oceangraphic ship to leave the area claiming that that region was Turkish!
The incident took over an entire week with two Frigades aiming eachother in less that a mile distance!
Erdogan in several speaches tried hard to show to people that the "old treaties" must be reconsidered.
A month after the Turkish coop there was a reveal of another Turkish plan of invasion in Greece with the code name South Arrow.

In any case Turkey is in a cross road . The new "Ottoman Vision" of Erdogan works both as a re-uniting tool of the Turkish society over common enemies and serves the need of Turkey to expand because its over population that leads the country in to a new civil war according to the recently inprisoned leader of HDP party.

Ofcource there are voices of sence in Turkey. Like this article that "answer's" Erdogan's argument about "borders of our heart". But Erdogan continues to inprison journalists and close papers that do not share his egemonical vision.
The article : So Instabul is a Greek City in Hurriyet newpaper.

In Erdogan's eyes Turkey will "secure" it borders in the east by invading Armenia and divide the country with its most loyal ally Azerbaitzan that still have a conflict about Nogorno-Karabag regions. Also Turkey will control Mosul's oil giving the new empire an energy indipendance that now lacks.
In the Syria Turkey will try to secure Turkman regions and eliminate YPG that now fears because in a future Syria that Kurdish regions will be a defacto Kurdish state claiming other Kurdish areas inside Turksih borders.
In the west by invading Thrace Turkey will have a permanent threat over Thessaloniki because Evros river is a heavy opsticle in any invasion plans today. Also by taking south Bulgaria regions, Turkey will create a buffer zone arround Andrianople that now does not exist after the hard lessons Turkey learned in its attempt to invade Greece in 1986!
With the east Aegean Greek islands under its control , Turkey will divide that archipelago controling oil deposits, Russian's trade routes etc.
Arresting 50% of Turkish pilots , THK (Turkish Air Force) is in despert condition with almost no pilots. By starting a war everyone will accept to join for "mother land's" sake forgeting Erdogan's policies.
The atmospeare is similar to Europe's 1020's-1930's before the great war. The question is...Are Turkish people willing to follow Erdogan in his plans or not?

[Akrotatos]

I find it perfectly plausible that Erdogan will cause a hot incident with Greece in Thrace or some islands (which will lead to concessions from our side) but not that he is going to go Hitler-mode on all his neighbours.

[Tureuki]

I seriously started to think you spend half of your time thinking about war with Turkey. We forgot there were even issues with Greece. Nobody cares about Greece anymore. Surely the Aegean issue will continue but it will never escalate. And Turkey wont do poop in mid east either.

[Akrotatos]

I seriously started to think you spend half of your time thinking about war with Turkey. We forgot there were even issues with Greece. Nobody cares about Greece anymore. Surely the Aegean issue will continue but it will never escalate. And Turkey wont do poop in mid east either.

Sure, it's not like your dictat....I mean President does not question the Lausanne treaty or half of your establishment didn't recently talk about islands that should be in Turkey (hilariously including Gavdos which is more close to Libya than Turkey) or that his words were a big enough issue for Hurriyet to write about it.

And of course you buying more F-35s while you keep violating our aispace daily should not really be our concern.

Add to the fact that you are bordered by two countries in the midst of war but somehow choose to keep your most modern equipment on the Greek borders, as if our hordes are waiting for a moment of weakness to pounce and take back Instanbul for the glory of God

[Tureuki]

Sure, it's not like your dictat....I mean President does not question the Lausanne treaty or half of your establishment didn't recently talk about islands that should be in Turkey (hilariously including Gavdos which is more close to Libya than Turkey) or that his words were a big enough issue for Hurriyet to write about it.

And of course you buying more F-35s while you keep violating our aispace daily should not really be our concern.

Add to the fact that you are bordered by two countries in the midst of war but somehow choose to keep your most modern equipment on the Greek borders, as if our hordes are waiting for a moment of weakness to pounce and take back Instanbul for the glory of God

talk is regular part of the Turkish politics. You are taking it too seriously. Its all about appealing to voters. If Erdogan done everything he said, Turkey would be gone a decade ago.

Strenghtening your military is about having more political power in the entire region. Nothing spesific againts Greece. There are way more projects btw. Around 1800 new armoured vehicles will be bought(all indigenous). Altay tank will start its serial production next year. 16th T-129 has ben delivered a few weeks ago. Indigeneous armed drones are rapidly entering service. List is pretty long. Modernizing the inventory with local stuff was really needed.

Greece is the only proper military in our neighbourhood so its normal that newer stuff are stationed near Greece.

[Abdülmecid I]

There are no racial minorities in Turkey (or any other place in the world, because there is no such thing as different human races) and Alewites are a religious, not a tribal or an ethnic, group.

I personally believe that the Hürriyet article covered the issue pretty accurately, as usual. Erdoğan's irredentist rhetoric is a typical populist tactic of gathering votes, when you have nothing concrete to offer to your people. It also allows him to take a jab at CHP, by implying that the Treaty of Lausanne was not as beneficial for the Republic of Turkey as it has been presented by the Turkish historiography. Not that it excuses Erdoğan's nationalist statements, but similar rhetoric is not that uncommon, in the Balkans and the Middle East. Patriotism still unfortunately remains a powerful tool to appeal to the masses...

Now that being said, concluding from these abstract historical references that Turkey is planning to invade almost everyone of her neighbors, including two NATO members, Greece and Bulgaria, is simply paranoid, to say the least. There is neither any factual evidence nor any relevant historical precedent that a country, manipulated by a single crazy person, will go rogue and start attacking her allies here and there, while also annexing huge swaths of foreign lands. Claims like these are nothing but the other side of the coin, ultra-nationalist phantasies and victim complexes of someone's homeland being before some sort of an Apocalypse, when the carefully orchestrated conspiracies against his beloved country will finally take place.

Let's all calm down, just like we eventually did exactly one year ago, when chauvinists from both sides imagined of a Caucasus mountainous war between the Russian and Turkish armies. Only in the Iraqi front, tenses are indeed high, but that still doesn't mean that Mosul is going to be incorporated to Turkey.

[Kyriakos]

There are no racial minorities in Turkey (or any other place in the world, because there is no such thing as different human races) and Alewites are a religious, not a tribal or an ethnic, group.

I personally believe that the Hürriyet article covered the issue pretty accurately, as usual. Erdoğan's irredentist rhetoric is a typical populist tactic of gathering votes, when you have nothing concrete to offer to your people. It also allows him to take a jab at CHP, by implying that the Treaty of Lausanne was not as beneficial for the Republic of Turkey as it has been presented by the Turkish historiography. Not that it excuses Erdoğan's nationalist statements, but similar rhetoric is not that uncommon, in the Balkans and the Middle East. Patriotism still unfortunately remains a powerful tool to appeal to the masses...

Now that being said, concluding from these abstract historical references that Turkey is planning to invade almost everyone of her neighbors, including two NATO members, Greece and Bulgaria, is simply paranoid, to say the least. There is neither any factual evidence nor any relevant historical precedent that a country, manipulated by a single crazy person, will go rogue and start attacking her allies here and there, while also annexing huge swaths of foreign lands. Claims like these are nothing but the other side of the coin, ultra-nationalist phantasies and victim complexes of someone's homeland being before some sort of an Apocalypse, when the carefully orchestrated conspiracies against his beloved country will finally take place.

Let's all calm down, just like we eventually did exactly one year ago, when chauvinists from both sides imagined of a Caucasus mountainous war between the Russian and Turkish armies. Only in the Iraqi front, tenses are indeed high, but that still doesn't mean that Mosul is going to be incorporated to Turkey.

Well, having a dictator speak of getting more spheres/territory against neighboring countries may be normal in Turkey, but it is surely a very dumb and appalling thing to do. If we were living in any rational world order there would finally be sanctions against the dangerous and demented clown you have as president.

Btw, i am not afraid he will actually declare war on us. Usually countries which are in perpetual civil war build-up don't do well in a war.

[Akrotatos]

@ Abdulmecid

While I appreciated the post (and repped you for it) and I agree there will never be a WW2 style conflict you have to at least accept the fact that Turkey is not a country to feel comfortable with.

I know it's difficult but please try to put yourself in other's shoes. You have the largest country in the region which in the last five years:

a) Has funded and armed civil conflict in one neighbor (Syria)
b) Has now brought troops in said neighbor's land to support its backed armed groups.
c) Has troops in the lands of a second neighbor (Iraq) and in an area that it informally claims as its own (Mosul)
d) Still occupies half the lands of a third neighbor (Cyprus) when there is really no reason for it (surely Cyprus would not invade the north if TSK left)
e) Supports a fourth neighbor's enemy (Armenia & Azerbaijan)
f) Constantly makes hostile remarks, violates sea and air borders and has a casus belli against a fifth neighbor (Greece).

And now this country which has bullied almost everyone around it, is under a weird quasi-dictator, has a low intensity armed conflict within its borders, bombs explode almost weekly and has arrested pretty much everyone in opposition to its leader.

Surely, being concerned is not THAT paranoid is it? There are plenty of examples in history where dictators have done disastrous moves. especially when threatened.

[Abdülmecid I]

a) Has funded and armed civil conflict in one neighbor (Syria)

Although I believe that the Turkish intervention in Syria has only managed to strengthen Salafists and Kurdish extremists, to the detriment of the Turkish and Syrian people, through losses of human lives and unnecessary wasting of taxpayers' money, the situation is simply not comparable to Greece. Turkey participated in an ongoing civil war, started after a relatively widespread uprising, like pretty much every one of Syria's neighbors, freinds and enemies did. Nothing particularly exceptional, apart from a comparatively powerful state sloppily attempting to promote its interests.

b) Has now brought troops in said neighbor's land to support its backed armed groups.

The intervention's goals were officially to fight ISIL and perhaps unofficially to prevent the Kurdish cantons from uniting. Anyway, for any response see above.

c) Has troops in the lands of a second neighbor (Iraq) and in an area that it informally claims as its own (Mosul)

The Turkish Army has a legal presence in Mosul, following an agreement with the Iraqi government, before ISIL's emergence. As I said however, even disregarding that, a neighbor almost indefinitely plagued with civil war, whose territories are freely crossed by various foreign armed forces is not really comparable to Greece.

d) Still occupies half the lands of a third neighbor (Cyprus) when there is really no reason for it (surely Cyprus would not invade the north if TSK left)

The Turkish intervention in Cyprus was perfectly justified, due to Turkey's special diplomatic agreements with Cyprus (like those of Greece and the United Kingdom), which allowed her to participate against any effort to undermine the Cypriot authorites (in that case, a coup d'état instigated by the Greek dictatorship, threatening the Turkish-Cypriot community with ethnic cleansing). Of course, many crimes against civilians were committed (by both sides), while the Turkish prolonged presence is understandably viewed as a much more controversial affair, but again, I don't believe that 1974 Cyprus is comparable to 2016 Greece

e) Supports a fourth neighbor's enemy (Armenia & Azerbaijan)

Indeed, but Turkey is actually an ally of Greece, both being NATO members, so the only party that should be concered with the Turkish support towards Azerbaijan, should be the future enemies of Greece.

f) Constantly makes hostile remarks, violates sea and air borders and has a casus belli against a fifth neighbor (Greece).

I can say exactly the same about Greece and every state that has some sort of trivial territorial dispute with one of his neighbors. Akrotatos, I'm not denying that Turkey is a state, which, like everyone else, is rather keen on defending her interests, or that the relations between Greece and her are not the best possible. Absolutely no disagreement here. However, from my experience, such fear-mongering, usually originated from populist politicians, unreliable blogs desperate for some click-baiting, fascist parties anxious to rise from obscurity to parliamentarian relevance and army generals or Defence Ministry officials, who would love to justify the renovation of the army's equipment, in order to be able to get a few more bribes.

[Akrotatos]

Although I believe that the Turkish intervention in Syria has only managed to strengthen Salafists and Kurdish extremists, to the detriment of the Turkish and Syrian people, through losses of human lives and unnecessary wasting of taxpayers' money, the situation is simply not comparable to Greece. Turkey participated in an ongoing civil war, started after a relatively widespread uprising, like pretty much every one of Syria's neighbors, freinds and enemies did. Nothing particularly exceptional, apart from a comparatively powerful state sloppily attempting to promote its interests.

The intervention's goals were officially to fight ISIL and perhaps unofficially to prevent the Kurdish cantons from uniting. Anyway, for any response see above.

The Turkish Army has a legal presence in Mosul, following an agreement with the Iraqi government, before ISIL's emergence. As I said however, even disregarding that, a neighbor almost indefinitely plagued with civil war, whose territories are freely crossed by various foreign armed forces is not really comparable to Greece.

Patterns Abdul...I am not comparing this to Greece, I am showcasing two different times when Turkey exploited its neighbors when they could not resist for its own personal gain. It's one thing to promote your interests politically and economically and another militarily.

The Turkish intervention in Cyprus was perfectly justified, due to Turkey's special diplomatic agreements with Cyprus (like those of Greece and the United Kingdom), which allowed her to participate against any effort to undermine the Cypriot authorites (in that case, a coup d'état instigated by the Greek dictatorship, threatening the Turkish-Cypriot community with ethnic cleansing). Of course, many crimes against civilians were committed (by both sides), while the Turkish prolonged presence is understandably viewed as a much more controversial affair, but again, I don't believe that 1974 Cyprus is comparable to 2016 Greece

This is why I did not mention the invasion but rather the continued presence (not to mention the colonisation by Anatolian settlers which even Turkish-Cypriots oppose) of the Turkish army which serves only to bully Cyrpus.

Indeed, but Turkey is actually an ally of Greece, both being NATO members, so the only party that should be concered with the Turkish support towards Azerbaijan, should be the future enemies of Greece.

Oh come on, you don't really believe this for a second.

[removeduser_487563287433]

In the thread about the latest coop in Turkey i wrote that the Turkish leadership will have some delimas to solve inorder to re-unite Turkey's heavily divided society.
What we know for start is the fact that Turkey had managed -so far- to hide more or less how divide its society was by :
a) The finasial status of several areas such the "rich west" over the poor east.
b) The tribal /racial divisions by minorities such Alevites or Kurds (if a 20 milion population over a total of 78 ones can be seen as typical minority), Asyrians.
c) The religion separation between the modern Muslims and the fanatic ones.

Few days ago Erdogan made a speach that said that Turkey CAN NOT longer stay in the borders of the International Treaties but to act according to the "borders of their hearts".
In his "arguments" pointed out the Muslim populations that still live in Bulgaria, in Greece , the turkmenic populations of Mosul and northern Syria. An other argument was the existance in those areas Muslim Ottoman Mosques and other sights that give Turkey the "right" to interfear to "protect" them. Erdogan called his vision about the new Ottoman Expansion as the "New Contract" with the Turkish nation.
After Erdogan's speach Turkish ministers talked the Turkey's right over 16 Greek islands simply because they were in some era Ottoman islands and because they are closer to Turkey than Greek mainland. Also other turkish officials spoke about the right Turkey has to "protect" the Mulsim populations in Greek and Bulgarian Thrace as "protector" of their faith.
On the other side Turkey apears its self as protector of Mosul's Suni Muslims against the legitimate Iraqi goverment that has a Shia Mulsim majority in this time.
In the last week in the Aegean mutiple "Dogfights" between Greek and Turkish planes too over going to close to open fire to each other.
A Turkish Frigade went to Castelorizo Greek island (inside the 6 miles teritorial waters) and tried to force a Greek Oceangraphic ship to leave the area claiming that that region was Turkish!
The incident took over an entire week with two Frigades aiming eachother in less that a mile distance!
Erdogan in several speaches tried hard to show to people that the "old treaties" must be reconsidered.
A month after the Turkish coop there was a reveal of another Turkish plan of invasion in Greece with the code name South Arrow.

In any case Turkey is in a cross road . The new "Ottoman Vision" of Erdogan works both as a re-uniting tool of the Turkish society over common enemies and serves the need of Turkey to expand because its over population that leads the country in to a new civil war according to the recently inprisoned leader of HDP party.

Ofcource there are voices of sence in Turkey. Like this article that "answer's" Erdogan's argument about "borders of our heart". But Erdogan continues to inprison journalists and close papers that do not share his egemonical vision.
The article : So Instabul is a Greek City in Hurriyet newpaper.

In Erdogan's eyes Turkey will "secure" it borders in the east by invading Armenia and divide the country with its most loyal ally Azerbaitzan that still have a conflict about Nogorno-Karabag regions. Also Turkey will control Mosul's oil giving the new empire an energy indipendance that now lacks.
In the Syria Turkey will try to secure Turkman regions and eliminate YPG that now fears because in a future Syria that Kurdish regions will be a defacto Kurdish state claiming other Kurdish areas inside Turksih borders.
In the west by invading Thrace Turkey will have a permanent threat over Thessaloniki because Evros river is a heavy opsticle in any invasion plans today. Also by taking south Bulgaria regions, Turkey will create a buffer zone arround Andrianople that now does not exist after the hard lessons Turkey learned in its attempt to invade Greece in 1986!
With the east Aegean Greek islands under its control , Turkey will divide that archipelago controling oil deposits, Russian's trade routes etc.
Arresting 50% of Turkish pilots , THK (Turkish Air Force) is in despert condition with almost no pilots. By starting a war everyone will accept to join for "mother land's" sake forgeting Erdogan's policies.
The atmospeare is similar to Europe's 1020's-1930's before the great war. The question is...Are Turkish people willing to follow Erdogan in his plans or not?

Before we start... is the topic of this thread that you believe Turkey is planning to invade Greece?

[Love Mountain]

I am well versed in Russian politics however I cannot comment on the situatipn between Turkey and Greece. Can somebody explain to me why they believe that Turkey is hostile or not?

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

[Tureuki]

Same issue as middle east. Big powers after the ww1 draw artificial borders on their own without taking the delicate matters into account. Which caused a big range of problems everywhere including wars, civil wars and constant tension.

[alhoon]

I didn't know Turkish ships were trying to turn back oceanographic ships.

[Odenat]

I find it perfectly plausible that Erdogan will cause a hot incident with Greece in Thrace or some islands (which will lead to concessions from our side) but not that he is going to go Hitler-mode on all his neighbours.

Yes guys, we are coming. Wet your beds. lol

Seriously tough. Nobody in Turkey give a damn about Greece. Erdoğan is a politician, he is saying 100s things every week. I'm pretty sure he already forgot what he said at that speech so you can sleep peacefully. (And when i see your last economic data, i see you are still sleeping )

I didn't know Turkish ships were trying to turn back oceanographic ships.

And Greek fleet is doing exactly the same thing when Turkish oceanographic ships try to enter it's sea zones. Greek media says that Turkey is "making a challenge each times a Turkish oceanographic ship left its ports"! And the incident that Anthonius mentioned; there is only 2 miles between the island and Turkish coast. So, saying that the Turkish ship is inside the 6 mile zone is saying that Greek territorial waters covers Anatolian lands!

We have a problem at Aegean, that's sure. No other country at the world have hundreds of another country's islands so close to it's coasts. There would be incidents when even i can swim to Greek islands!

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016...in-the-aegean/

[Akrotatos]

Same issue as middle east. Big powers after the ww1 draw artificial borders on their own without taking the delicate matters into account. Which caused a big range of problems everywhere including wars, civil wars and constant tension.

The fact that you refer to our borders as artificial is enough to show your country's true ambitions in the region. Where are the "natural borders" Tureuki? Macedonia? Thessaly perhaps? Might we add the eastern Aegean islands as well?

Yes guys, we are coming. Wet your beds. lol

Seriously tough. Nobody in Turkey give a damn about Greece.

Sure, sure.

And Greek fleet is doing exactly the same thing when Turkish oceanographic ships try to enter it's sea zones. Greek media says that Turkey is "making a challenge each times a Turkish oceanographic ship left its ports"! And the incident that Anthonius mentioned; there is only 2 miles between the island and Turkish coast. So, saying that the Turkish ship is inside the 6 mile zone is saying that Greek territorial waters covers Anatolian lands!

We have a problem at Aegean, that's sure. No other country at the world have hundreds of another country's islands so close to it's coasts. There would be incidents when even i can swim to Greek islands!

The sheer idiocy of this post is tempting me to violate the rules of this forum. Go and educate yourself, obviously when the sea is so narrow the distance is divided in half and does not extend over land

And Turkey oceanographic ships tend to explore areas belonging to Greece so yeah, it's a challenge all right.

[dogukan]

I hate Erdoğan, I work with HDP and Kurds, I have seen the worst of this government but I seriously doubt a war with Greece is on the agenda.
Government is more concerned with proving Syriza is a failure to show it as incompetency of "left parties" in ruling. Thats as much as Greece gets mentioned in Turkish politics. Even then, they make somewhat friendly remarks about Tsipras for some reason.

[alhoon]

I hate Erdoğan, I work with HDP and Kurds, I have seen the worst of this government

I would say here, that there's a real chance for you to be arrested.

I seriously doubt a war with Greece is on the agenda.

I agree, it's not on the agenda. That doesn't mean it's impossible to happen though, and since nobody here or there plans for it, it could be chaotic and it will be unexpected.

Government is more concerned with proving Syriza is a failure to show it as incompetency of "left parties" in ruling. Thats as much as Greece gets mentioned in Turkish politics.

That's really not hard to do... if you're leftwing and want a defense though, remind them that rightwing governments were as incompetent. SYRIZA is incompetent and inherited a bad situation, making it worse. Rightwings were incompetent and inherited a bad situation and made it worse; then they passed it to SYRIZA. Center-left government before the rightwings was incompetent and inherited a bad situation and made it worse; then they passed it to the rightwings. Rightwing government before the center-left one was incompetent and inherited a bad situation and made it worse.
It goes back a few cycles of incompetent governments, till we reach 1981. An incompetent government that took the first big loan to push us out of the mire, but wasted much of the opportunity by throwing money around (and stealing it). That's when the "borrow now, worry how we repay the loan later" mentality started.

Thats as much as Greece gets mentioned in Turkish politics. Even then, they make somewhat friendly remarks about Tsipras for some reason.

Because he's not Anti-Turkish and wants closer ties with Turkey. He has made some remarks that are, frankly, unpatriotic.

[Tureuki]

Half of those problematic islands were handed over to Greece by western invaders, while the other half was invaded in the first balkan war where Greece successfully snatched them while everybody was ganging on Ottoman empire. Was what you did wrong? No, anybody would do the same, we would probably snatch an island 5 km away from Athens if we could, but those led to the current issues and Turkey is not entirely wrong either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A..._accession.svg

When you look at that map even you can see what the natural borders should have been. Red ones, pink ones excluding the Crete and that island north should have been left for Turkey. There would be not a single problem.

[Akrotatos]

Half of those problematic islands were handed over to Greece by western invaders, while the other half was invaded in the first balkan war where Greece successfully snatched them while everybody was ganging on Ottoman empire. Was what you did wrong? No, anybody would do the same, we would probably snatch an island 5 km away from Athens if we could, but those led to the current issues and Turkey is not entirely wrong either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A..._accession.svg

When you look at that map even you can see what the natural borders should have been. Red ones, pink ones excluding the Crete and that island north should have been left for Turkey. There would be not a single problem.

Wow such modest claims Tureuki are you sure you don't want Thrace and Thessaloniki too? These islands have and had solid Greek populations but I guess after killing a few million Armenians and Pontic Greeks it should be no problem to get rid of a few tens of thousands of people....

I rest my case at least what you believe is public so that nobody can say we are paranoid