Debate: Educative potential of TW games and forum

[Kabeloko]

Hello everyone, I´m a student of sociology from Brazil currently working on my term paper on educative potential on video-games in general and on-line forums; I would like to propose the following public panel discussion: Is there an educative potential on the TW video-games series and on-line forum? I chose the TW videogames series and forum because they are the chosen objects of my research, they may give me the micro insight inside the macro(big picture) insight; this is also why I posted this thread in here and not the "Athenaeum"´s forum section. No usernames, post signatures, reputation rank or any particular information that could lead to your account will be shown in the final paper, they will be painted over, but i should highlight that this thread would be quite easy to find considering the tags and that this is a public forum; printscreens of our conversation might be used for exposition. I will post the finished work in this thread when it´s done, wich should be sometime in January or February; unfortunately, it will be in portuguese except the abstract. Every opinion is welcome and highly appreciated. Thanks in advance for every participant, you are being of great help.

[Frunk]

I'm not too sure what type of responses you're looking for, but I'd say there certainly is an educative potential in both the Total War series of games, and various online forums including twcenter.net. I know that a large part of my interest in history comes from what knowledge I discovered whilst playing the game, and this led to further discussion, research and learning here on the forum, especially of modding-related things, which in turn I believe has improved my general competency with computers and the like.

[Kabeloko]

Thanks for the answer and sharing your personal experience Frunk, that´s exactly what I was looking for: the opinion of the forum members on the matter, their experience after playing the games and joining the forum, pros and cons of it if they judge there is any, if and how it impacted their lives in the way they socialize on-line and off-line, if it changed how they view the world as it was in the past, in the present and could be in the future, if it affected their use of foreign languages; has it changed how they view other countries, be it by talking to members from other countries or simply playing a game that includes said countries? In my case for example, I had no idea what a medieval myaphisite kingdom looked like before playing the Broken Crescent mod and Crusader Kings 2, but after playing them, i could get some leads to research further. Sorry I didn´t properly especify the discussion before, I was afraid I would bias the answers.

[Alwyn]

Playing Empire Total War, making mods and writing After Action Reports using ETW in the Writers' Study has motivated me to read several history books on the 18th century. Some After Action Reports use historical characters. You mentioned that you are interested in whether playing the game has affected people's use of foreign languages. Some people who write Shogun II After Action Reports, such as Takeda, Way of the Bow and Yokai, use Japanese words as well as cultural and/or historical references.

As I see it, playing the game increases my motivation to learn about the relevant historical period. Playing the game and modding, or playing the game and writing an After Action Report, dramatically increases that motivation. As I see it, playing the games, creating mods and writing After Action Reports are all catalysts which increase people's motivation to learn about history.

[Kabeloko]

Thanks Alwyn, I appreciate how you brought the Writers´ Study into play, it´s something to consider and that I should better explore on this term paper. It seems the three of us got some motivation and impulse for historical research from the same sources.
I would like to ask to everyone that reads this: Has it affected how you perceive other cultures? Comparing as in how you imagined them to be before and after a game, an AAR, a on-line talk, etc? Has it made you reflect, for exemple, about your morals, sense of beauty, ethics and other ways of thinking? Has the experiences with the games and forum helped you "place yourself in someone else´s shoes", as in it bringing some kind of understanding of others?
How do you feel other perceive you, your culture and country here in the forums?

[Frunk]

I would say it definitely has. I have developed a much greater interest in the histories and cultures of Europe, the Middle and Near Easts, and the Americas almost purely from playing Medieval 1 and Medieval 2. I would even go so far as saying I have a far greater fascination with other cultures than with my own.

[Sirlion]

It was the other way around for me. Having a strong passion for the 18th century and the napoleonic era I came naturally to the TW series. But as for education... eh. Once you understand how game-y the battles are and how silly the whole system looks and feels, it is hard to get immersed properly. Especially when there are literally armies of clones that jump up and down a rope like mad rats. Or ships that sink into the ground thinking that its the sea. Nothing beats a good diary of a real veteran. I would love to be able to care about my troops and feel the weight of my choices, believe me when I say that it would give me an overwhelming feel of loss and adrenaline at the same time. But until they get into the games the battle speeches back, and / or introduce at the very least a video montage of troops training or letters sent by random soldiers that I just ordered to march on the enemy, I will feel next to nothing for those nameless clones. So yeah, as far as respect for human life or sacrifice, patriotic spirit or historical realism / precision of any kind, TW is deeply lacking at the moment. But I understand that it is a good parody of history and it might attract someone to other media to learn more.

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

it is simply illustrated by the fact, when I started playing total war games I had almost no knowledge of the geography of Europe & other parts of the world & limited historical understanding but after getting into "modding" the game I now have expanded historical understanding & an expert significantly above the average ( I think) knowledge of European & general Geography & modding has inspired to do personal research to expand my knowledge base greatly, & this personal research has been done with the same intensity &enthusiasm (more actually) as needed for "traditional" academic pursuits

[biasedplatypus7]

A lot can be learned from The Total War series and its a big reason I like history, however I do not think it could or would ever be used for educational purposes in schools, at least in American ones, mainly because of the violence and impracticality. I am not saying that Total war is incredibly violent but schools are very sensitive and would not allow the game to be used in the classroom. Also, it would be quite expensive if you were to have a full class of kids playing total war.

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

it could be homework? LoL HaHa

[biasedplatypus7]

Video games for homework! lol, what a world that would be.

[Finlander]

You know, education is the most effective before you realize that you’re being educated.

I recall reading somewhere that the US Marines had an experiment in their military college where the cadets were set to play one of Paradox’s games as part of their education. Anyhow, I find it hard to imagine that normal schools anywhere involved playing Total War games as part of their curriculum. The closest thing the titles could be used for would be to demonstrate some tactics used in a historic battle, but then again, most education systems are already struggling even with teaching the general history to their students. I don’t think they’d be able to bring such a detailed look into the general tactical concepts to their lessons without having to shorten education on another subject. At least in the basics level education.

For me these kinds of games have been best at rising the general interest in the era, making myself to see things from a different perspective and having a sense of familiarity that further expands my ability to understand the era from another point of view - Though they can also give a wrong impression of the era and making something seem to be there that wasn't for centuries, thinking of things like depictions of nationalism or absolutism in medieval Europe; or depicting the warfare as organised and strategic whereas it probably was less so. They definitely have educational value but I still think that enjoying TWs are best left to home.

[Kabeloko]

Sorry for my absense in such a long time, november and december were restless months; Everyone, your insights were awesome, I got a lot to think and write about, I already translated more than half the answers and will include everyone in the final paper; and as promised, as soon as the final version is ready, i will post it here, it will probably be somewhere around late january or february. I can´t fully express my thanks through the internet for your participation, but if any of you come to Brazil, let me know and we will hang out.
Also, I´m leaving my full bibliography below. Please, feel free to contact me for whatever reason through here, the profile page or through personal message, lets stay in touch.

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Hine, C. (2004). ETNOGRAFIA VIRTUAL. Barcelona: Editorial UOC. Disponivel em: http://ethnographymatters.net/blog/2...s-e3-internet/> Acesso em: 06/09/2016

Hine, C. Virtual Ethnography: Modes,Varieties,Affordances. In N. Fielding, The SAGE Handbook of Online Research Methods (1st ed.). (2008).

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