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Thread: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

  1. #801
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by ode289 View Post
    @ygraine I'm having a really hard time getting this mod to work. Currently only using DEI parts 1,2,3 and this mod. Is there anything else I need to do? Usually don't have any issues with this type of thing, but can't figure this one out! Any help would be appreciated!
    I doubt the sub mod is the problem, personally I use the two DEI downloads and Data Venia here on the forums rather than the steam versions, my son and I are just about to click over to 200 turns on a multiplayer head to head match, and have had very little in the way of crashes.

    When you start up Rome 2 do you check the mod list? making sure that Data Venia is loaded before vanilla DEI? also when you hit play it will show a summary of mods, you must also check that list as it sometimes will show the mod order different to what is set in the launcher.
    If it is different, the launcher folder needs to be deleted and recreated, which is done when you start up the game again.

    When you say a hard time getting it to work, is it not starting the game? crashing during startup? or crashing during the game?

  2. #802
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by zonks40 View Post
    I doubt the sub mod is the problem, personally I use the two DEI downloads and Data Venia here on the forums rather than the steam versions, my son and I are just about to click over to 200 turns on a multiplayer head to head match, and have had very little in the way of crashes.

    When you start up Rome 2 do you check the mod list? making sure that Data Venia is loaded before vanilla DEI? also when you hit play it will show a summary of mods, you must also check that list as it sometimes will show the mod order different to what is set in the launcher.
    If it is different, the launcher folder needs to be deleted and recreated, which is done when you start up the game again.

    When you say a hard time getting it to work, is it not starting the game? crashing during startup? or crashing during the game?
    Thank you for your reply! It ended up being a much older version of the mod that I had buried in a folder somewhere that was causing the issue. Deleted it and the mod now loads properly!

    Thanks again for the reply, it is much appreciated!

  3. #803

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Hello and thank you for this wonderful sub-mod.

    Even though this has been a great experience , i do have a few issues that i would like to adress for the sake of feedback.
    Note that none of those makes the game unplayable , but still - i believe it's worth discussing.

    First of all and most importantly , i don't think i can get this mod to fully load.
    Things like recruitment times , battle changes , building tweeks etc seem to load just fine but starting money is always 21k. Wasn't it supposed to be 15k ?
    That makes me suspect other things are not fully loaded as well.
    I've tried getting the steam version of DEI and this mod AND the forum uploads , both of which provided the same results.
    I also tried disabling and even manually deleting all other mods in fear of a mod conflict.
    Also used both launchers and i am playing on normal.
    Nothing changed.

    Secondly , kids. A lot of births but also a lot of deaths. Only around 5%-10% of my kids survive to adulthood. My initial leader as Royal Scythia lost all of his kids and the family tree advanced only thanks to adoptions. It might seem like a little thing but it kind of breaks immersion. I've also seen this mentioned before , i would very much appreciate less kids and less mortality. I guess this is one of the downsides of 12 tpy but it should be fixable , right ?
    Also , about 12 tpy , you can easily finish the whole campaign without a single person in your family dying to natural causes ( i just did it with Scythia ). It's hard to find a middle ground with these things , i know , but it just feels wrong. Only Alexander the great would be able to reach campaign victory conditions within his lifetime.

    Third , Scythioi logades. This is the best foot unit i have available as Scythia that can actually hold a line. The problem is , it does it way too well - meaning OP..
    It doesn't have an hoplite phalanx ( not sure that matters ) only a formation attack , but for god's sake , this unit NEVER breaks. The only scenario this unit goes down is when i use it offensively , then sure , it just gets demolished vs swords etc , but when it plays defense ? NO WAY , those guys are somehow better than spartans. Getting surrounded , cav charged and barely get any losses. I'VE NEVER seen this unit route when it plays defence , N E V E R . I take on battles while outnumbered 4 to 1 or more , this is absolutely crazy. I am not sure if this applies to more similar units but i believe this needs a nerf or it's simply a problem on my end.

    Number 4 , arrows and projectiles. I like the increase in ammunition , but when you play vs AI , this is simply too much of an advantage.
    For example , a couple of trash sword/axe units costing only 60$ upkeep have enough javelin ammo to drop a similar enemy unit to 60% or so , basically a free routing. By just skirmishing... Again , all these are observations by me playing as royal scythia , which defo have an extra advantage on this matter due to technologies and faction traits.
    Also , elite archers get ~600 kills per unit on an open battle and ~750 on settlement battles using focus fire on stupid AI that stucks up like crazy.
    Yes , my armies are built for it , general traits like missile dmg/ammunition , armies traits like missile dmg and similar technologies are all used. But still , too much imo.
    All of the above are mostly result to increased ammunition.

    Number 5 , banditry. On the last couple of imperiums its very hard to manage it , due to not having the minus banditry option from the provincial capital main building.
    I noticed that we have 3 options on tier 3 , +4 - +4 and +6 banditry only. I strongly believe that the option with the least income ( usually the fortified option ) should offer +0 banditry , if not -8 like DEI.

    Lastly , number 6 , diplomacy. I love it but there is still one thing i hate. Sniper declare war from the other side of the map for absolutely no reason.
    Example : i discover iweriu on turn 90 or so , BOOM , they declare war. We don't have a conflict of interests or anything , we are just neutral and they are on the other side of the map ffs. Then on next turn i offer them peace and they are willing to PAY me 5k for it and then pay more to trade with me. How does that make any sense ?

    I am not trying to be overly critical , as i said at the start i really LOVE this mod and i appreciate the free time you invested into this.
    Just my 2 cents. Thanks bud !

  4. #804
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zharrazul View Post
    Hello and thank you for this wonderful sub-mod.

    Even though this has been a great experience , i do have a few issues that i would like to adress for the sake of feedback.
    Note that none of those makes the game unplayable , but still - i believe it's worth discussing.

    First of all and most importantly , i don't think i can get this mod to fully load.
    Things like recruitment times , battle changes , building tweeks etc seem to load just fine but starting money is always 21k. Wasn't it supposed to be 15k ?
    That makes me suspect other things are not fully loaded as well.
    I've tried getting the steam version of DEI and this mod AND the forum uploads , both of which provided the same results.
    I also tried disabling and even manually deleting all other mods in fear of a mod conflict.
    Also used both launchers and i am playing on normal.
    Nothing changed.

    Secondly , kids. A lot of births but also a lot of deaths. Only around 5%-10% of my kids survive to adulthood. My initial leader as Royal Scythia lost all of his kids and the family tree advanced only thanks to adoptions. It might seem like a little thing but it kind of breaks immersion. I've also seen this mentioned before , i would very much appreciate less kids and less mortality. I guess this is one of the downsides of 12 tpy but it should be fixable , right ?
    Also , about 12 tpy , you can easily finish the whole campaign without a single person in your family dying to natural causes ( i just did it with Scythia ). It's hard to find a middle ground with these things , i know , but it just feels wrong. Only Alexander the great would be able to reach campaign victory conditions within his lifetime.

    Third , Scythioi logades. This is the best foot unit i have available as Scythia that can actually hold a line. The problem is , it does it way too well - meaning OP..
    It doesn't have an hoplite phalanx ( not sure that matters ) only a formation attack , but for god's sake , this unit NEVER breaks. The only scenario this unit goes down is when i use it offensively , then sure , it just gets demolished vs swords etc , but when it plays defense ? NO WAY , those guys are somehow better than spartans. Getting surrounded , cav charged and barely get any losses. I'VE NEVER seen this unit route when it plays defence , N E V E R . I take on battles while outnumbered 4 to 1 or more , this is absolutely crazy. I am not sure if this applies to more similar units but i believe this needs a nerf or it's simply a problem on my end.

    Number 4 , arrows and projectiles. I like the increase in ammunition , but when you play vs AI , this is simply too much of an advantage.
    For example , a couple of trash sword/axe units costing only 60$ upkeep have enough javelin ammo to drop a similar enemy unit to 60% or so , basically a free routing. By just skirmishing... Again , all these are observations by me playing as royal scythia , which defo have an extra advantage on this matter due to technologies and faction traits.
    Also , elite archers get ~600 kills per unit on an open battle and ~750 on settlement battles using focus fire on stupid AI that stucks up like crazy.
    Yes , my armies are built for it , general traits like missile dmg/ammunition , armies traits like missile dmg and similar technologies are all used. But still , too much imo.
    All of the above are mostly result to increased ammunition.

    Number 5 , banditry. On the last couple of imperiums its very hard to manage it , due to not having the minus banditry option from the provincial capital main building.
    I noticed that we have 3 options on tier 3 , +4 - +4 and +6 banditry only. I strongly believe that the option with the least income ( usually the fortified option ) should offer +0 banditry , if not -8 like DEI.

    Lastly , number 6 , diplomacy. I love it but there is still one thing i hate. Sniper declare war from the other side of the map for absolutely no reason.
    Example : i discover iweriu on turn 90 or so , BOOM , they declare war. We don't have a conflict of interests or anything , we are just neutral and they are on the other side of the map ffs. Then on next turn i offer them peace and they are willing to PAY me 5k for it and then pay more to trade with me. How does that make any sense ?

    I am not trying to be overly critical , as i said at the start i really LOVE this mod and i appreciate the free time you invested into this.
    Just my 2 cents. Thanks bud !
    I agree there are some issues there, I had read that civil wars has been disabled, and because of this I totally ignored the loyalty, and then a family broke away and took a decent portion of my empire, sorted it out and the mechanic worked fine, but being a head to head multiplayer game it put me behind my opponent.

    The births and deaths is as follows.

    6% chance per turn of a family have a child.
    2% reduction of having a child per existing child.
    0.8% mortality rate for very young child per turn.
    0.3% mortality rate for young child per turn.
    50 Husband age decreasing child chance.
    55 Wife barren age.

    Traits will affect these chances, some wifes will give a bonus of up to 6 I think, and the husbands, which means they could have up to 6 or more children, personally in my current campaign I've give up caring about the characters, the family is so big it's just too much work.

    Arrows and projectiles are a bit much, but we have learned to deal with it, light cavalry now has a function.

    Banditry: My head to head opponent has complained about it a few times but I haven't had many problems, tax wagon robbed a few times.

    Diplomacy I fully agree, I am currently at emperium 7 as the Seleucids, I have single town factions declaring war on me from Britain, and all but crushed enemies refusing peace, it may be great material for the ballads, but it has no place in reality.
    I don't know if distance has any bearing on war declaration and it may not be something that can be modded.
    Last edited by zonks40; March 22, 2020 at 01:41 AM.

  5. #805

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by zonks40 View Post
    I agree there are some issues there, I had read that civil wars has been disabled, and because of this I totally ignored the loyalty, and then a family broke away and took a decent portion of my empire, sorted it out and the mechanic worked fine, but being a head to head multiplayer game it put me behind my opponent.

    The births and deaths is as follows.

    6% chance per turn of a family have a child.
    2% reduction of having a child per existing child.
    0.8% mortality rate for very young child per turn.
    0.3% mortality rate for young child per turn.
    50 Husband age decreasing child chance.
    55 Wife barren age.

    Traits will affect these chances, some wifes will give a bonus of up to 6 I think, and the husbands, which means they could have up to 6 or more children, personally in my current campaign I've give up caring about the characters, the family is so big it's just too much work.

    Arrows and projectiles are a bit much, but we have learned to deal with it, light cavalry now has a function.

    Banditry: My head to head opponent has complained about it a few times but I haven't had many problems, tax wagon robbed a few times.

    Diplomacy I fully agree, I am currently at emperium 7 as the Seleucids, I have single town factions declaring war on me from Britain, and all but crushed enemies refusing peace, it may be great material for the ballads, but it has no place in reality.
    I don't know if distance has any bearing on war declaration and it may not be something that can be modded.
    Thanks for your reply.

    Civil wars proc for me normally as well.

    Interesting numbers on childs. However , what i noticed ( i might be wrong about this ) is that the larger the empire grows , the more kids survive.
    This could be a pure RNG thing , but it seemed to me that whenever imperium grew , there were more childs and thus more survivors.
    My first leader had 0 childs survive , the 2nd in line ( adopted guy ) had 1-2 , and the 3rd in line has 3+.
    It's like the game limits your family tree the smaller your empire is.
    Again , i could be full of , but i really hope the great modder looks into this , since it doesn't seem too hard to fix , at least on the eyes of a noob like me. ^^

    As for banditry , it's not game-breaking for sure. For me it's like a mini-game on late game campaigns.
    However , as a barbarian faction , without that OP farm with minus banditry and now lacking the minus banditry option on main settlement , it becomes extremely hard to manage.
    I got 3 buildings on capital and 2 buildings on minor settlements that help with it. So assuming i build all 3 on the capital , 1 in each minor settlement and max them all out , i am still left with around 20+ banditry. That goes for imperium VII+ , the last couple of them.
    Problem is , you can't produce enough food to sustain those buildings , most of them require food , especially after you upgrade them. On the above example , even if i fill the gaps on minor settlements with just farms that produce max food , i am left out sort , because i also have to feed the capital/minor settlement main buildings. So what i ended up doing , is having a number of food regions , in which i managed banditry through generals stationed as governors.
    Found a build that includes a couple of minus banditry traits plus all the necessary governor traits and moved on.
    However , there's not enough generals for every region , and you also need to keep some as army commanders.
    There is also the option of simply going all out minus banditry and disabling taxes on the regions completely , since money is not an issue that late in the game ,
    which works but it just feels wrong.
    If i didn't have 10+ spies stealing food from enemies , this whole food/banditry relation in data venia would be unplayable.

    This got a bit too long for sure , all in all , i believe there should be an option with minus or zero banditry on capital main buildings to sort of balance it out , like it is on normal DEI. In fact , there is already an option in my data venia install with zero banditry , but for some reason it's only on historical capitals ( which are limited ) , like pergamon/zarmatigetusa ( if i spelled that correctly ) etc , at least that's what their description card claims.

    Lastly , i want to talk about public order and i promise i'll stop all QQ for good.
    I think the occupy/raze/... changes are very good. Occupy can save you a LOT of money depending on the culture of the conquered and the extra provincial instability is welcome. In mid game , i had more armies on patrol than on garrison , all in an effort to balance public order because i ended up with 30+++ provincial instability in newly conquered areas which took forever to go down.
    The problem is LATE game. While i share Ygraine's vision and agree having public order penalties on things like farms is ultra stupid in theory , late game becomes a joke.
    You end up picking up technologies and your generals upgrade way too much , so after 250 turns or so , you can charge into an enemy region , occupy a couple of settlements and still have +50 public order per turn. On my own areas , i ended up having over +100 public order per turn without any generals stationed or edict bonuses. This is a direct result of having no penalties on buildings like farms. My provinces were so disgustingly happy , that i even went into the politics , spammed gather influence all the way to 100% , in order to get -12 public order from ''hated by tribes''.

    Also , some buildings become way too strong compared to their counterparts because of removing the public order penalty. I noticed there has been an effort to balance this , through lowering income and more but we are not there yet.
    I wonder if the lovely modder is interested in balancing this somehow for end game. For example , significantly boosting the public order penalties on main buildings tier 3/4 even further.
    This has been an issue on vanilla and even normal DEI , but in DV late game , it's simply overkill.

    Just food for thought.

  6. #806

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    I don't know if distance has any bearing on war declaration and it may not be something that can be modded.
    As far as I know, map distance has ZERO affect on declarations of war; if a faction on the other side of the world has bad diplomatic relations with you or think they're stronger than you are, they will likely go to war with you, regardless of whether or not they'll actually ever be able to mount an attack form that distance, and the CAI is bad at pathing and making decisions in general so they'll likely never make it across the map (but there's the rare occasion where it's surprising how far a navy or army on transport ships will travel and attack you).

    Jake Armitage has made a DIGS submod affecting diplomacy, and one idea he has is adding to the submod's scripts a maximum map distance between factions for establishing diplomatic relations, which increases with imperium. If that ends up working, it should completely solve this problem.
    Last edited by Aureliae; March 22, 2020 at 08:48 AM.

  7. #807
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    haven't started yet but yes, it should work fine, only problem is the exact first turn 2 factions meet each other. have still to understand how to build a callback for that.
    aside from first turn everything else should be ok. I think that it will work depending on army distances more than faction capitals, and yes imperium level or something similar will be surely put in.

  8. #808

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    haven't started yet but yes, it should work fine, only problem is the exact first turn 2 factions meet each other. have still to understand how to build a callback for that.
    aside from first turn everything else should be ok. I think that it will work depending on army distances more than faction capitals, and yes imperium level or something similar will be surely put in.
    Excellent news! If it depends on army distances too, maybe that's a good reason to move the RPGu diplomat BG around the campaign map more. But let's not fill the DV thread with too much talk of Testudo...

  9. #809

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    I wonder if someone could help me or point me to where I can find help.
    I want to edit the empire type of government to make it better. Right now I just dont feel like its worth switching over to.

    Thank you in advance!

    And great mod btw. Im having a blast!

  10. #810
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    if you just want to change the effects the govs give you should be able to modify them inside dei TWC 1st pack > db > effect_bundles_to_effect_junctions > "the tab called something like imperium/politics"
    check the names in the first column, something with government inside

  11. #811

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    I am finally going to try this submod. I can't find the link to the version that keeps the DEI politics and civil wars. Is that still available with the latest version of DV? Also, can I run Data Venia with Age of Hellenism?

  12. #812
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gioseppe View Post
    I am finally going to try this submod. I can't find the link to the version that keeps the DEI politics and civil wars. Is that still available with the latest version of DV? Also, can I run Data Venia with Age of Hellenism?
    The civil wars work in the version on the forum, not sure about the compatibility with Age of Hellenism, Data Venia uses different stats for melee attack and melee defence compared to vanilla DEI, so if Age of Hellenism has some different units the stats may be out.

  13. #813
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gioseppe View Post
    I am finally going to try this submod. I can't find the link to the version that keeps the DEI politics and civil wars. Is that still available with the latest version of DV? Also, can I run Data Venia with Age of Hellenism?
    If you want to use AoH with DV, then you've got to go for the Lite version of AoH. The full version is not compatible.

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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zharrazul View Post
    Thanks for your reply.

    Lastly , i want to talk about public order and i promise i'll stop all QQ for good.
    I think the occupy/raze/... changes are very good. Occupy can save you a LOT of money depending on the culture of the conquered and the extra provincial instability is welcome. In mid game , i had more armies on patrol than on garrison , all in an effort to balance public order because i ended up with 30+++ provincial instability in newly conquered areas which took forever to go down.
    The problem is LATE game. While i share Ygraine's vision and agree having public order penalties on things like farms is ultra stupid in theory , late game becomes a joke.
    You end up picking up technologies and your generals upgrade way too much , so after 250 turns or so , you can charge into an enemy region , occupy a couple of settlements and still have +50 public order per turn. On my own areas , i ended up having over +100 public order per turn without any generals stationed or edict bonuses. This is a direct result of having no penalties on buildings like farms. My provinces were so disgustingly happy , that i even went into the politics , spammed gather influence all the way to 100% , in order to get -12 public order from ''hated by tribes''.

    Also , some buildings become way too strong compared to their counterparts because of removing the public order penalty. I noticed there has been an effort to balance this , through lowering income and more but we are not there yet.
    I wonder if the lovely modder is interested in balancing this somehow for end game. For example , significantly boosting the public order penalties on main buildings tier 3/4 even further.
    This has been an issue on vanilla and even normal DEI , but in DV late game , it's simply overkill.

    Just food for thought.
    I play a modified version of DV, I've a totally different economic system, plus a whole lot of other changes here and there, I play multiplayer campaign only, for some reason I cannot stomach single player for long, so late game is never an issue for me when I am always up against a player, who 19 times out of twenty plays as Rome.

  15. #815
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    Sorry for the absence, just wanted to drop by and say that there will be an update once the Media update for base DeI is out.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  16. #816

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2020-01-20)

    please use alternate links!! thank you!

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