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Thread: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2019-08-21)

  1. #141
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Patch is out & changelog updated!



    Apologies for the slow update rate, took a while to find the db-tables that were causing the loop at starting the game. Once we did, we decided to add our new mini campaign changes along with it. You can now properly enjoy the mini campaigns with the correct starting treasury, removed client states, removed pre-techs and other fixes.


    @Greek Strategos

    They expand pretty well, both of them.

    In my current Mithridatic campaign Rome has whole Italy, Apollonia, Thessalia, whole Illyria, Corsica, whole Cisalpinia and parts of Narbonensis (Provincia etc). Sparta and Athens confederated into Greek City-States and are trying to hold them back. As for Carthage, in one of my recent campaigns they conquered whole east coast of Iberia and made Lusitani and some other tribe their tributary states. It seems the Iberian tribes can't dominate Carthage as easily any more and you will probably not see any Turdetanis or Arevacis conquering western Africa.

    I think the tributary system really changes the playing field, and in expanding the confederation options for many factions it also added another layer of RNG to the campaigns.
    I think I'm gonna start a new game with your mod.
    Normal difficulty is suggested like DEI for battles that I know, but with your mod for Campaign as well right ???
    Do you believe I'll need to use the Hardcore submod,Hardcore Pops or other submods like I usually do with ''Vanilla'' DEI ??? I like slow expansion,slow building and research and hardcore settings generally,I can't stand easy steamrolls during the map etc Ι'll use your version of 12tpy though cause 24tpy sounds too much for me.

    Any useful tips for your mod ???
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; June 09, 2017 at 03:47 PM.

  2. #142

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    I think I'm gonna start a new game with your mod.
    Normal difficulty is suggested like DEI for battles that I know, but with your mod for Campaign as well right ???
    Do you believe I'll need to use the Hardcore submod,Hardcore Pops or other submods like I usually do with ''Vanilla'' DEI ??? I like slow expansion,slow building and research and hardcore settings generally,I can't stand easy steamrolls during the map etc Ι'll use your version of 12tpy though cause 24tpy sounds too much for me.

    Any useful tips for your mod ???

    I too am going to try this since I tend to play a slower campaign (and use 12 TPY as well). And ya, any tips?

  3. #143
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    I too am going to try this since I tend to play a slower campaign (and use 12 TPY as well). And ya, any tips?
    Ygraine will only give his tips to me.
    I could share though, if you're willing to give me some cookies.

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    I think I'm gonna start a new game with your mod.
    Normal difficulty is suggested like DEI for battles that I know, but with your mod for Campaign as well right ???
    Do you believe I'll need to use the Hardcore submod,Hardcore Pops or other submods like I usually do with ''Vanilla'' DEI ??? I like slow expansion,slow building and research and hardcore settings generally,I can't stand easy steamrolls during the map etc Ι'll use your version of 12tpy though cause 24tpy sounds too much for me.

    Any useful tips for your mod ???
    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    I too am going to try this since I tend to play a slower campaign (and use 12 TPY as well). And ya, any tips?


    Always use normal, yes. We decided to use normal and make the CAI harder there because it's the only way to play very hard/normal in coop/head-to-head due to CA's limitation. DV was after all originally a coop/head-to-head mod that we made for personal use and it was important that it worked in multiplayer correctly.

    As for tips, some factions have a tougher start than others just like in the main mod. Antigonidai is a good example, Getae another and Boii a third. I'm slowly working on making all factions playable (like Dresdens AFP submod for DeI 1.1) so there'll be opportunity to have even harder starts as some backwater desert village in the future

    Diplomatically it's not super different from standard DeI. Making friends early is a good idea, send gold and try to get them to join your wars - or join theirs if you don't have many wars already. I've increased the relations you get with others from battle support and releasing prisoners. Both are now viable means to get your relation up with factions. Many times it will be better to liberate a faction or make it a tributary, rather than conquering the region for yourself. Culture conversion is slower and negative PO higher. It's better to send some dignitaries to start converting a new province several turns before you send your army to conquer it.

    If you feel like you're an excellent player and have a strong PC you could even try playing with 41-units per army. DV is tailored to be able to handle that too (supply scripts, AI income etc). Be prepared for very large battles that take some time and a lot higher casualties. Garrisons won't be able to defend easily vs these "doomstacks" either any more and you have to reinforce critical regions with extra troops along your border.
    Only downside is that you can't play like this in multiplayer, due to some scripts in DeI desyncing it at turn 5~ (it works in vanilla Rome 2). We probably spent 7-8 hours trying to figure this out, but to no avail so far.


    Speaking of 12 tpy (and 4tpy) I need to update those two packs with the latest DLC campaign changes... Thanks for reminding me!


    Edit: TPY-packs updated!
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 09, 2017 at 05:27 PM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post

    Do you believe I'll need to use the Hardcore submod,Hardcore Pops or other submods like I usually do with ''Vanilla'' DEI ??? I like slow expansion,slow building and research and hardcore settings generally,I can't stand easy steamrolls during the map etc
    What about the submods ???
    Thanks for the tips

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    What kind of submods?

    Faster/Slower battles won't work, same goes for the hardcore/softcore submods most likely (diplomacy only version will work). All other kinds of mods like different emblems etc will work - just load them before DV.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    What kind of submods?

    Faster/Slower battles won't work, same goes for the hardcore/softcore submods most likely (diplomacy only version will work). All other kinds of mods like different emblems etc will work - just load them before DV.
    Hmmm then I guess I'll have to live without them. Hardcore Pops Won't work as well right ???
    Have you edited pops at all ??? How about slower research and increased building times ???
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; June 09, 2017 at 08:06 PM.

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Hardcore pops? No idea what that is, never heard of it

    You mean the population scripts? Yes I have, multiple times. All cav is 120 in DV, whilst in DeI it's a mix of 100 and 120. Then there's a bunch of other units that I changed amount of soldiers in, like for example recently I increased a merc unit from 200 to 300, and indian levy spearmen from 300 to 400.

    Yes, the research is slowed in the normal version and a bit faster in the TPY versions. I haven't increased the building times, but due to 50% cost increase you won't be able to build everything right away any way.
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 09, 2017 at 08:12 PM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Hardcore pops? No idea what that is, never heard of it

    You mean the population scripts? Yes I have, multiple times. All cav is 120 in DV, whilst in DeI it's a mix of 100 and 120. Then there's a bunch of other units that I changed amount of soldiers in, like for example recently I increased a merc unit from 200 to 300, and indian levy spearmen from 300 to 400.

    Yes, the research is slowed in the normal version and a bit faster in the TPY versions. I haven't increased the building times, but due to 50% cost increase you won't be able to build everything right away any way.
    No I was talking about this DeI Hardcore 1.2 Population
    400

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    That one should work since it just slows the pop growth and I haven't touched those modifiers. Just load it before DV and you're golden.

    They're the worst levies in DV and cost as much as persian levies who are better stat-wise. But with 400 there's a point in getting them to absorb arrows or just stand in the way for the enemy. It also fits the indian theme of more men per unit, since their archers/skirmishers have 200 men instead of 175 like other cultures.
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 09, 2017 at 08:28 PM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    That one should work since it just slows the pop growth and I haven't touched those modifiers. Just load it before DV and you're golden.
    Sounds like the beginning of a beautiful campaign for me...
    ''Humphrey Bogart Casablanca''

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    I hope you'll have fun!




    Updated first post with instructions for how to increase units per army for those that want it (below download links).
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 10, 2017 at 08:11 AM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    I'm really stumped, you know. I love the Data Venia mod, I absolutely can't play regular Dei anymore(well since battles feel slower with DV on) but It's a long slog that feels like I'm climbing the side of the tower of Babel. I fight of like 3 armies just to capture the arevaci capital and there arent any warriors left to draw upon, everybody goes to war with me and I've never had diplomacy work for my end. I just don't get it but I can't play without dv FeelsReallyReallyReallyBadMan

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock'n'Awe View Post
    I'm really stumped, you know. I love the Data Venia mod, I absolutely can't play regular Dei anymore(well since battles feel slower with DV on) but It's a long slog that feels like I'm climbing the side of the tower of Babel. I fight of like 3 armies just to capture the arevaci capital and there arent any warriors left to draw upon, everybody goes to war with me and I've never had diplomacy work for my end. I just don't get it but I can't play without dv FeelsReallyReallyReallyBadMan
    You're playing with Normal dif setting right ???

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock'n'Awe View Post
    I'm really stumped, you know. I love the Data Venia mod, I absolutely can't play regular Dei anymore(well since battles feel slower with DV on) but It's a long slog that feels like I'm climbing the side of the tower of Babel. I fight of like 3 armies just to capture the arevaci capital and there arent any warriors left to draw upon, everybody goes to war with me and I've never had diplomacy work for my end. I just don't get it but I can't play without dv FeelsReallyReallyReallyBadMan


    Sounds familiar! But hey... It feels extremely rewarding when you manage to beat back the odds and make progress!

    The best part is that it will still be fairly hard later on due to large coalitions forming.
    In my 250+ turn Parthian test campaign (was testing out how mid-game feels in DV) I was afraid of around 7-8 smaller factions in Armenia/Caucasia/Pontus who were pacted against me. I could easily destroy all of them one and one, but since they were guarding each others lands it meant a massive troop commitment on my part to make a move against them and with a second front open against the arab-peninsula I had to create three buffer states between our borders.

    I'm assuming you play a faction that has cultural aversion? It's pretty rough playing one of those (especially early game). The good news is that most factions usually have more than one war, so even if they declare war on you they might be busy with someone else.
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 10, 2017 at 08:36 AM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    You're playing with Normal dif setting right ???

    Yeah normal settings

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Sounds familiar! But hey... It feels extremely rewarding when you manage to beat back the odds and make progress!

    The best part is that it will still be fairly hard later on due to large coalitions forming.
    In my 250+ turn Parthian test campaign (was testing out how mid-game feels in DV) I was afraid of around 7-8 smaller factions in Armenia/Caucasia/Pontus who were pacted against me. I could easily destroy all of them one and one, but since they were guarding each others lands it meant a massive troop commitment on my part to make a move against them and with a second front open against the arab-peninsula I had to create three buffer states between our borders.

    I'm assuming you play a faction that has cultural aversion? It's pretty rough playing one of those (especially early game). The good news is that most factions usually have more than one war, so even if they declare war on you they might be busy with someone else.
    It's like such a tough battle overall, I had to fight 4 armies without replenishing as the edetani to capture an arevaci town, and they had a population of 20 warriors. So my men couldn't replenish and I lost XD. Honestly can't tell if I'm doing it right or wrong which is the part that bums me.

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    You rarely can replenish right away after taking an enemy region since it takes a few turns for your population to migrate to that new area. Foreigners is the only prevalent population right after a capture! That means either AoR (if available) or mercs is the way to go. You might have to disband some near-dead unit and replace it with a merc/AoR if you know the enemy is on the move against you.
    Another method is to have a second army that moves in to replace the wounded units which you then take home to your own region for them to rest and replenish!

    I had this happen in my Getae campaign! I finally managed to take the Odrysians capital by the coast, but their ally Thyni had two massive warbands moving towards it, and I would have no chance against them since I won a pyrrhic victory against the town (they had an army inside it).
    I decided to liberate it instead of occupying it and then disbanded my remaining soldiers so Thyni wouldn't kill my warchief. That way I had a new ally in Moesia and I could re-hire my skilled warchief back in Dacia interior. Other times it might be more prudent to subjugate, rather than liberate. But it's important that you have scouts that keep an eye on your enemies to know if you'll be able to hold the region you're taking or not before you make that choice.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    You rarely can replenish right away after taking an enemy region since it takes a few turns for your population to migrate to that new area. Foreigners is the only prevalent population right after a capture! That means either AoR (if available) or mercs is the way to go. You might have to disband some near-dead unit and replace it with a merc/AoR if you know the enemy is on the move against you.
    Another method is to have a second army that moves in to replace the wounded units which you then take home to your own region for them to rest and replenish!

    I had this happen in my Getae campaign! I finally managed to take the Odrysians capital by the coast, but their ally Thyni had two massive warbands moving towards it, and I would have no chance against them since I won a pyrrhic victory against the town (they had an army inside it).
    I decided to liberate it instead of occupying it and then disbanded my remaining soldiers so Thyni wouldn't kill my warchief. That way I had a new ally in Moesia and I could re-hire my skilled warchief back in Dacia interior. Other times it might be more prudent to subjugate, rather than liberate. But it's important that you have scouts that keep an eye on your enemies to know if you'll be able to hold the region you're taking or not before you make that choice.
    Huhuhu I don't wanna have to disband my scutarii, they've got like 3 chevrons at the time D: if only I could afford a new army. But I guess I'll persevere, dv changed so much that I can't go back anymore

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 9th june)

    I know the feeling, but if you know they're going to die 100% the next turn it might be better to disband them right away. That way you'll get more income that turn from less upkeep and you'll save your general from dying too!

    Speaking of generals since it takes a lot more exp to level them than in normal DeI, once you have one with a few levels they become very valuable. I got really annoyed when I managed to lose even a level 3 one since even that level requires time and investment. My friends who play coop in DV got really enraged when one of their level 6 generals got killed by a random stone thrown by a slinger at 117/120 bodyguards left
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