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Thread: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2019-08-21)

  1. #61
    Ygraine's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    A sneak-peak from the patchnotes for 1.2 (more to come):

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    *New Confederation exclusions and names
    *All land_unit-tables finished (changed stats on all new units to fit with the different balance)
    *Satrapy changed to Tributary and available to all factions (client state disabled)
    *Reworked PO negatives (a lot less negative from farms, yellow chain, industry etc. A lot more negative from city/town core buildings simulating that larger cities/towns are more unruly instead of a random farm pissing people off)
    *Text_string fixes (tributaries, Antioch, introduction pop-ups etc)
    *Removed -% provincial upkeep from all buildings that aren't barracks/stables/archery-ranges/workshops/military wharfs
    *Increased ship price by 50% and decrease ship upkeep by 50%
    *Increased price of all buildings by 50%
    *Fixed missing/wrong buildings in startpos
    *Replaced new hoplite formation
    *Reworked formation bonuses for hoplite/pike (for better balance) and wedge (for more usefulness)
    *Merged new Legendary Commanders
    *Decided what to do with units that had hoplite formation in 1.1 but don't have it in 1.2
    *Added new miniscule bonuses to dignitary baseline skills to make them a viable option
    *Increased time required for research
    *Replaced all political incident occurrence & political action costs with research bonus speed to compensate for longer research times and make these techs useful with the new political system in 1.2
    *Added larger amounts of dogs per unit, with increased price and upkeep
    *Tweaked some skills from new Legendary Commanders that were OP to slightly lower values
    *Changed how the AI behaves in diplomacy



    Still waiting for the Hellenic overhaul patch to hit for the final steps before public release.
    Last edited by Ygraine; May 06, 2017 at 03:19 AM.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  2. #62

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    A hard and phenomenal work which make DeI much better. Thousand thanks.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Thanks! Glad you like it

    Now that I've replaced all political action costs with research % bonuses I decided that for political incident occurrences I'll go with small diplomacy bonuses.

    Not necessarily final since I still have to test it to make sure it's not OP - but the idea fits well with Data Venia since the AI is a bit more unforgiving in diplomacy than in the main mod. Now you'll be able to counter-weight some of their aggressiveness if you choose to pursue philosophy early on.
    I've been unable to find a way to show exactly how much the diplomacy bonus gives so far, but since the values are modest it shouldn't be a problem to use this tooltip.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Last edited by Ygraine; May 07, 2017 at 09:39 AM.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  4. #64

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    What changes are you making to diplomacy? I am interested because I am always messing about in those tables so its good to see any ideas you have come up with for that area.

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  5. #65
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    *Higher relations needed for things like NA/Access/Defensive pact etcetera but once you have the relations it's easier to sign these with an AI. Mind you they will still cancel these eventually if relations are dropping because you aren't fighting your common enemy.
    *No more random peace request spam by the AI unless you inflict heavy losses on them or if you have enough green relations from fighting the same enemies.
    *Slightly easier to get a tributary (renamed satrapy) offer from a small and weaker faction seeking your protection to avoid being destroyed.
    *Easier to get trade by lowering required relations (works well with the DEI change to how much money you can ask from the AI) , this has shown that the AI factions are now a lot more willing to trade with each other making things like raiding trading lanes more profitable and making the world feel more alive. Before this usually the player had like 10+ trading partners while the AI traded only with two or three, or often not at all. Now in my beta pack I've seen AI Rome have whole whooping seven trading partners and the Seleucids six - which is a record in my experience.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  6. #66

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Wow, congrats Ygraine! Your submod is very extensive and interesting. Looking forward to trying it when 1.2.1 arrives!

    By the way, would you make a 4TPY version?

    Thank you very much in advance!

  7. #67

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Sorry for double post.

    Dresden or Ygraine, did you consider adding a similar concept as Kulturkampf submod into DeI 1.2.1 and Data Venia? It might add interesting gameplay, if correctly balanced.

    Thanks again!

  8. #68
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Thanks Jdofo.

    I'm planning to add a few TPY-variations somewhere around release. The standard TPY is currently 24 and that's what tech, reforms, culture conversion, character experience gain/troops veterancy gain etc are balanced around - meaning it's quite some work to make a few extra versions but I might settle for an extra 4 tpy and 12 tpy for those who prefer it.

    About Kulturkampf I'll see if there are any ideas that look interesting.

    Culture tensions are super easy to mod and perhaps I will increase the tension between certain cultures that disliked each other (example Punic and Roman). I will definitely make cultural conversion a bit slower than the current value.

    As for public order, I've changed the whole building template for how public order is given and taken. Now it's mainly cities and towns that give a lot of minus to PO and the more you upgrade it the worse it gets. For example, I really disliked that a farm gave like -8 PO and felt it made little sense. Now that same farm only gives -2 PO, but the city gives -12 PO instead of the vanilla DeI -4 value. This means it's not always a good idea for you to upgrade your city or town if the public order is unstable even if you have the money and unlocked the tech to do it. And you don't need to worry that rebels will overthrow your whole region just because you made one farm and one amphorae maker... Those rebels get really mad when you give them that extra food and they hate pottery!!
    I also added extra minor culture conversion bonuses so I don't think adding culture on buildings like ports will fit the current system I'm trying to create as there will simply be too many numbers stacking - I would have to remove culture from other sources. All in all the more I mod and learn, the more I understand how a massive undertaking it is for Dresden to make sure everything is more or less balanced.

    One interesting thing in Kulturkampf is the sanitation building idea he mentions. I will definitely try to make those buildings useful as I NEVER build them myself and feel they're completely useless in their current state.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  9. #69

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by jdofo View Post
    Sorry for double post.

    Dresden or Ygraine, did you consider adding a similar concept as Kulturkampf submod into DeI 1.2.1 and Data Venia? It might add interesting gameplay, if correctly balanced.

    Thanks again!
    Kulturkampf concept is excellent, but I have one point: ''war happiness'' with highly antagonistic cultures as well.

  10. #70

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Looking forward to Data Venia for DeI 1.2.1!!!

    How is testing going?

  11. #71
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    It's going fine!

    I've been testing some long campaigns in 1.2 Data Venia beta (370~ turns, 240~ turns etc) and I feel that "end-game" is sufficiently challenging. This was a big problem for me with Rome 2 in general, at some point everything is super easy once you're big enough. But with my current changes, even at roughly turn 200~ I couldn't steam-roll the map with Parthia like I used to be able (picture below).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    As you can see I did get a fair bit of territory (the war between Baktria, their tributaries against me and mine alone took like 60-70 turns, was fun and challenging) but once I reached Armenia, I met a large coalition of tributaries belonging to Cimmeria that were quite powerful. There was also a famine in a key region there, so I proceeded to use my agents (spammed incite revolt in undefended towns with my authority-skilled spy and poisoned their garrisons with my cunning-skilled spy) and once the rebels became emergent factions, I made them my tributaries. In the end we had several buffer kingdoms between us that were doing most fighting. I instead proceeded to defeat the Arab tribes (which had their own coalition) in the Persian gulf and conquer their coast.




    The change I made that allows all AI factions to create tributaries (renamed satrapy, client state was removed completely) is awesome, because now you can meet very strong AI coalitions where 5+ factions band together in one big bloc against you, led by the strongest one of them. That means that end-game is finally challenging again.

    As for 1.2.1 patching, we've done most of the ground-work already on the first day of the patch. I will most likely release a playable version this week since we managed to solve all crashing issues very quickly. The version released won't be complete though as many factions still need custom banners/colours, still need to fix starting unit size in startpos (this takes a lot of time), push elites into higher tier barracks (I really dislike how you get access to super elites from turn 1 for many factions in normal DeI), re-add many older units that were removed (levy pike for example) and some other miscellaneous things. None of these will break save-games though so you'll be able to start a campaign.

    I do plan to eventually replace some buildings with others (example: near useless Meadow building for Antigonidai, replacing it with the Greek cattle farm that they don't have for some mysterious reason) and this will create a blank slot if you've built one in your campaign and update the mod version. But then you can send me your save and I will replace the building with another farm using EditSF if you tell me in what regions you've made them.

    I will also finally be able to work on the unique historical characters that I wanted to create (Cleopatra, Boudicca etc, but this will only work in a new campaign due to CA's limitations) along with new units like a steppe nomad light horse archer unit with steppe hunting dogs! My co-modder who is very knowledgeable about the Thracians will also be making an overhaul to them, both stat-wise and visual (closer resemblance to how the Thracians were in EB2/Roma Surrectum).

    There's alot more stuff already done and planned, but enough with the wall-of-text for now
    Last edited by Ygraine; May 22, 2017 at 07:10 PM.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  12. #72
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Feeling industrious ??? You certainly have done many interesting changes mate.
    Can't wait to see the final product.

    Cheers

  13. #73
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    My co-modder who is very knowledgeable about the Thracians will also be making an overhaul to them, both stat-wise and visual (closer resemblance to how the Thracians were in EB2/Roma Surrectum).
    Well, glad that you both helped when I was working on Thracians... ; P
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  14. #74

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Wow, it seems so challenging and appealing!!! Even Rome took two centuries to fully conquer Iberian Peninsula due to Lusitanian, Celtiberian, Cantabri and Asturian wars/coalitions, not just 20 turns (e.g.). That's actually the kind of gameplay that I'm looking for: slow, challenging but very rewarding when achieving success.

    Thank you so much for the feedback and the update offer! Love thracians falx, by the way, all love is welcome.

    Keep up the great work, cheers!

  15. #75
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    Feeling industrious ??? You certainly have done many interesting changes mate.
    Can't wait to see the final product.

    Cheers
    Thanks. I feel I've done enough talking here. I'll let people decide for themselves once the new version is released!

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    Well, glad that you both helped when I was working on Thracians... ; P
    We were busy with lots of other stuff when you were making the Thracian overhaul, besides I'm not sure your preferences would coincide in all changes! There's no ETA on it still, he'll make it when he has time since he's helping me with lots of other stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by jdofo View Post
    Wow, it seems so challenging and appealing!!! Even Rome took two centuries to fully conquer Iberian Peninsula due to Lusitanian, Celtiberian, Cantabri and Asturian wars/coalitions, not just 20 turns (e.g.). That's actually the kind of gameplay that I'm looking for: slow, challenging but very rewarding when achieving success.

    Thank you so much for the feedback and the update offer! Love thracians falx, by the way, all love is welcome.

    Keep up the great work, cheers!
    Thanks.

    This is exactly what I've tried to create here. A longer campaign where you just can't rush (aka town-hopping) randomly any more throughout all the game and how the lengthy campaigns are more a kin to historical campaign lengths.
    You can still rush from time to time so it's not impossible. Especially early game is easy to rush (like conquering the Daci as Getae on the 3rd or 4th turn). This longer campaign fits a lot with the standard 24 TPY that the mod uses and will probably work similar with 12 TPY once I release that version. I recommend getting some of the excellent music mods to increase immersion even further (like Tyso3's epic music pack, or the Rome 1 pack).

    I do realize that this type of gameplay won't fit everyone's taste as some players prefer a faster pace and might not have patience to spend 40+ turns in defeating a tough medium-sized neighbour. But for those that do, this will hopefully be an enjoyable experience.
    Now I just hope that CA gives us more deeper gameplay with their next patch (family tree, more nice features from Attila etc) to even further the immersion.
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  16. #76
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Thanks.
    Now I just hope that CA gives us more deeper gameplay with their next patch (family tree, more nice features from Attila etc) to even further the immersion.
    Is this a possibility ??? I have a friend who worked for CA and we could get inside info, but he left for Sony Studios before a few months
    Bad for us good for him I guess.

  17. #77

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Thanks. I feel I've done enough talking here. I'll let people decide for themselves once the new version is released!



    We were busy with lots of other stuff when you were making the Thracian overhaul, besides I'm not sure your preferences would coincide in all changes! There's no ETA on it still, he'll make it when he has time since he's helping me with lots of other stuff



    Thanks.

    This is exactly what I've tried to create here. A longer campaign where you just can't rush (aka town-hopping) randomly any more throughout all the game and how the lengthy campaigns are more a kin to historical campaign lengths.
    You can still rush from time to time so it's not impossible. Especially early game is easy to rush (like conquering the Daci as Getae on the 3rd or 4th turn). This longer campaign fits a lot with the standard 24 TPY that the mod uses and will probably work similar with 12 TPY once I release that version. I recommend getting some of the excellent music mods to increase immersion even further (like Tyso3's epic music pack, or the Rome 1 pack).

    I do realize that this type of gameplay won't fit everyone's taste as some players prefer a faster pace and might not have patience to spend 40+ turns in defeating a tough medium-sized neighbour. But for those that do, this will hopefully be an enjoyable experience.
    Now I just hope that CA gives us more deeper gameplay with their next patch (family tree, more nice features from Attila etc) to even further the immersion.
    Thanks for your replies. Yeah, it sounds more historical, epic and rewarding!

    Well, I was thinking more in playing it with 4TPY, as it's my old-TW personal preference (that's why I had previously asked you if you were planning to release a 4TPY variation). That's not at all a demand, I can't demand anything to anyone here and I'm not this kind of people rushing modders to release what they want. I would be very glad if you ever release it, but no pressure at all. In fact, if you convert your testing turns to years in 4PTY, they would be around 92,5 and 60 years for reaching the empire that you're holding in your map. That sounds like a historical/more realistic pace in my opinion, except from historical exceptions (e.g. Alexander the Great and so on).

    In fact, I believe that one of the most interesting feature/mechanic to include in a TW mod would be to assure that the more blitz you have done to accomplish your empire, the more probability that it will disintegrate as soon as your blitz conqueror dies (e.g. Alexander the Great and Macedonian Empire after his death). That means, real deep political struggles, usurpers, higher assasination chance by other political parties, that could even make your empire falls, keeping only a few settlements and loosing entire regions/most of your empire to new founded factions (e.g. Macedonia loosing territory, and the start of Seleucid and Ptolemaic Empires, etc etc).

    I already have both music mods, switching them from time to time and they glorify the excellent and impressive work made by DeI modders

    Is CA planning to release a new Rome 2 patch with family trees and Attila's features??? The family tree is possibly one of the things I miss the most... To have EB II RPG kind-of character development + DeI would simply make Rome 2 what it should have been since the beginning! I'm also looking forward to Ancient Empires due to incorporating family trees and Attila new mechanics.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    I'm planning to make two more versions jdofo, 12 TPY and 4 TPY. Can't say when though, since there's still so much modding to do in other areas. Maybe I'll make two quick TPY versions without scaling techs and other stuff (since these changes take a lot of time to fix). Only way to create more instability due to quick blitz-conquering right now without using custom scripts is higher PO penalties from foreign culture and/or conquest unrest. Mine is already set on harder than default DeI.



    The "patch" I mentioned is just my assumption that they will release one based on that CA blog post a while back where they were talking about "revisiting" older games to add new DLC/expansion/content.

    Apparently Attila already had new steamdepots appear (meaning some new content is coming), and since a lot more players play Rome 2 and it sold A LOT better, I made a rational guess that they would add content to Rome 2 too since it would gain them more revenue this way. But who knows, CA sure have made some sub-par marketing choices before - maybe they'll just release one DLC for Attila (even though there's usually several thousand more people playing Rome 2) and be done with it... *shrug*

    Family tree and other features from Attila is just my own wish-list, and things that should have been in Rome 2 from the start (but they had to cut some of them out due to early release). Maybe they'll just release another boring and bland "culture pack" with generic units (example AFRICAN KINGDOMS! African Levy Spearmen, African Royal Bodyguard, African tribal painted warriors etc) when our modders have made excellent culture packs that are ten times better.
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  19. #79

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Looks interesting! Good luck!
    I have a bad feeling that CA won't give to Rome II any of those features which are beloved by fans. It is shame that Family tree is not part of the game anyway. It is very likey to be another shallow culture pack. But perhaps they can surpise us and even give 64 bit engine haha

  20. #80

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    I'm planning to make two more versions jdofo, 12 TPY and 4 TPY.
    And you adapt recruitment and technology turns accordingly ? Most TPY mods didn't bother to look on that aspect and make the game SF.

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