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Thread: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2019-08-21)

  1. #381
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar BEARDED MODERATION
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    De ai Arbitriis and Cultural Tension compatibility is a nice addition, indeed.

  2. #382

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Hi!

    I hope you like it!

    It works with Arbitriis, Cultural Tension and Hardcore AI aggression only-version. As for other submods, name a few since I don't know which others you mean

    You don't really need hardcore submod for this though, as "normal" campaign difficulty in DV is harder than very hard in DeI.
    Cool! Thanks @Ygraine.

    I don't have a full list of mods I would like to try with it yet, but I was wondering what you play it with.

    I'm in the process of trying to figure out the best experience based on what I am reading.

    Visual: Trees & Grass, Terrain, Dust, Mud, Lighting, Blood, etc.
    Diplomacy: More realistic AI decisions, factions not refusing to trade when it makes no sense to refuse
    Campaign AI: sensible alliances, factions opposing hegemony, not sending armies all the way across the map and leaving their own territories undefended
    Battle AI: anything that makes battles more realistic and challenging without buffing AI units (just added the 41 unit change - amazing!)
    Unit composition: harder to recruit and develop elite faction troops, more emphasis on auxiliaries as IRL
    Occupation/Expansion: more realistic advancement based on cultural affinity and realistic opposition to an overlord

    Suggestions?

  3. #383

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    I added DV + DAIA for my latest play through. I did about ~20 turns of a test run as Roma to get a quick feel and just because I was curious how the start may differ from my other recent Roma campaign. My expansion has been relatively equal, a bit faster maybe, and I managed to secure Latium and Italy in about that time. I stopped at being prepared to move into Cisalpina and Apollonia(I may have even taken Apollonia). I went ahead and started a Carthage play through to ~10 turns. No expansion or loss yet but already two big stacks met my defenses on the opposite ends of my empire. I may be forced to turtle, even though I don't think that is one of my better moves.

    Now, most notably, what stood out to me in both of these campaigns and their early turns was the number of the big, bloody battles. The AI recruit fast and had no hesitation on moving for my settlements. I immediately felt the pickup in tempo and felt their was too much risk of turtling as I would just be chipped away and constantly putting out fires around my borders-- now c'mon how often does that happen? That's great! I don't think I have ever felt like I need to brace myself while playing as Carthage. It's already been very entertaining. Back to Roma for a sec, the Veneti and Pyrrhus came at me very quickly and were not messing around. The Estrucans had a sizeable force as well. But lucky for me, I didn't realize how powerful the roman fortification stance was going to be so that ended up helping me out a lot, especially with so many low tier units on each side. Plus, very noticeable, ranged units and cavalry charges are absolutely devastating early game in comparison to my non-DV Roma campaign. It's a great change of pace and I especially enjoy a devastating cavalry charge. A couple decisive victories and the fort battle was a heroic(vs Etruscans), I think it was 5k vs 13k - while still super fun there is an unfortunate reality in that only ~41 units at a time can be deployed on the field per side so they didn't really get to attack me using their advantage of overwhelming numbers. This aggression is not just against me either, I saw Massalia and Liguria each lose a ~full stack against each other already.

    Once I got a bunch of Hastati I realized they are more durable here than vanilla DeI so I was also able to use that to my advantage and focus my recruitment around them. I can't wait to siege either. IIrc, the siege weapons fire multiple rounds and were very interesting to use my last time through DV and I know my Hastati are going to have a rough go of it running through the broken parts of wall while the towers are machine-bolt-gunning them. Last takeaway, not sure if this is just a coincidence or attributable to the mod because I don't remember all of the changes, but I also like that the Veneti sued for peace after they lost the vast majority of their army in battles to me. I gave them no such thing but almost never do you see peace once war breaks out, maybe very rarely and they're really only willing to accept peace if I offer them an absurd amount of money even though I am crushing them.

    All in all, in terms of the battles they are a nice change of pace with the difference in some units, cavalry and ranged, more specifically. Comparing the Roma play-throughs, while the battles results are generally more in my favor in DV in the comparable points of each campaign, I may just not be properly utilizing DeI vanilla units, especially ranged when thinking about both Carthage and Roma. I need to check to really feel sure it but they are definitely devastating in DV and I feel similarly in terms of some units durability, such as Hastati. I also want to get into a siege and get a good feel for those. As for campaign map, the pick up in tempo with the early battles was a welcome change of pace. I will have to give DV the full review it deserves once I have completed a more full campaign and really got into the meat of it's diplomacy and faction interactions.

  4. #384

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    I just a played couple of custom battles with this mod. What a nostalgia for old battle system... What I wanted to say is that 99% of killing animations are decapitations, especially when units are routing, which gets super boring and fast. Can you please give more variety to this aspect please?

  5. #385

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    @Ygraine - I notice that with DV, the Phalanx on/off options that KAM put into DeI are not available. I will go back and re-read your OP and I guess it's because you wanted the battle system from previous releases?

    Just wondering if there is a specific reason why that function isn't included for phalanx units. Thanks!

    EDIT: Is this the reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    I wanted a phalanx formation that you can toggle (like in the old DeI-version), unfortunately the new formation has some issues that KAM has not been able to solve so far. I feel that the combat-issues it brings is not worth the toggle-effect. On the other hand I'm slightly increasing the speed hoplites are moving at in DV in the next version, so they should be a little less slower (I'm assuming this was the main issue some players had with it).


    P.S. I noticed that it only takes 6 turns to build the next level up for the city of Rome. If it's 24 TPY, shouldn't that be at least 36 turns?
    Last edited by MrMerisi; January 06, 2018 at 05:49 PM.

  6. #386
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    @Mr Merisi

    I'm playing with Celty's ocean textures, Republican vegetation, Attila campaign map, More towns and cities, ZBGJ original blood mod, Agent portraits, Aztec and GEM! So it's pretty much only graphical mods, haven't had time yet to try some of the famous submods that change mechanics yet so it's possible some of them work quite well with DV!

    About the phalanx, it was made when the new version wasn't working well in base DeI. It's possible that KAM has since then fixed it, but since I've barely played lately I cannot say. Does it work well in normal DeI now? Or do they still have funky behaviour in combat and does the AI use it properly?


    About building turn-time, I felt that multiplying that would make the game quite boring and unrealistic in some cases. Now I'm not an expert on ancient building techniques, but I assume that it didn't take them three years to build some basic temple for example But stuff like Pyramids is obviously a completely different matter. I was also investigating the possibility of increasing recruitment time for troops (mainly elites), but unfortunately the AI will rarely train anything that takes more than one turn.
    On the other hand my change to ship cost increase/upkeep decrease made sense, since making a ship was very expensive (special timber had to be imported from certain regions in most cases), while it didn't make sense that 60-100 marines would have the same upkeep like 300 medium tier soldiers on land.


    @Satansblofish

    Thanks a lot for the feedback! I always try to play the game myself after each major patch to find quirks and imbalance issues, but it's difficult to notice everything (like when I didn't know about the Roman faction UI-bug). The AI does indeed have increased recruitment capacity (by default two more slots than the player). One easy tactic was to rush the closest AI at the start of a campaign (since the player has the first turn), but since the campaign now starts in winter, all armies get less movement. I couldn't rush Daci as Getae in 2 turns any more 41 units per army also has a big difference to normal 20-unit per army gameplay. With 41-units settings you will have less battles but big ones and a one town/city faction will have one full army. Once you beat that they won't have much else. With the 20-unit setting on the other hand there's much more "stack spam".
    Also watch out for crappy CA pathfinding in sieges, especially with 41-unit settings

    @Vardano

    Glad you also like it!
    We haven't edited animations as far as I remember, but I'll take a look!
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  7. #387
    boblikesoup's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    Great mod! It's made my game much more interesting.

    Some feedback:
    As Syracuse it seems like Roman armies are moving twice as fast as mine. Are they supposed to? I am playing with a -20% campaign speed mod for DeI
    I was also able to sack a Roman city twice in one turn and then raise it.
    I have positive +84 relations with Athens and Sparta and they are still at war with me and won't make peace.
    Can you please add the wear & tear texture .png to the faction icons on turn order? It's weird how they stand out.
    Last edited by boblikesoup; January 08, 2018 at 10:48 AM.

  8. #388
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    @boblikesoup

    Thanks!

    What movement mod are you using? If you link it I can check it out in PFM, perhaps there's some undesired entries there that cause funky stuff to happen.
    On the other hand each region has a probability of having -% movement, due to "rough terrain" and the like. Perhaps that's what makes them march further than you? I'm also planning to add +% movement to each city/town tier representing how roads are improved in the region when you upgrade the city/town.

    No idea about sacking, we haven't touched any of those options so they should be more or less identical to DeI. As far as I remember this limitation is present in vanilla too... I think?

    The AI doesn't only look at relations when offering peace. The total amount of troops you have vs their amount matters too, if you are weaker than them they will be less likely to offer peace for example. I might lower the requirements in relations even further in the next patch but I think in your particular case it's the strength ratio or some other factor. I've gotten peace from factions on low green, yellow and even slightly red ones with the current relation-settings! The problem with lowering relation requirement even more is that factions you want to be at war with will spam you with peace every single turn. That's something I really hated in normal DeI before, so I upped the requirements a tad.

    You mean the "worn" layer on faction icons? Might do it in a future patch but it's not high on the priority list. To be honest I'd rather have them all without that layer as I'm sure they were quite adamant about having nice looking faction emblems back in ancient times
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  9. #389

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    Hi, first of all congratulations, beautiful mod.
    I would like to report a problem with animations in battle.. I noticed a poor variety of these ,,, especially sword vs shield are always the same 2 (always) ,, cuts arm and quarter body ever. If you add more variety the battles would be spectacular.. Greethings

  10. #390
    milohve01's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    already updated DEI 1.2.2.g
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; April 30, 2019 at 05:03 AM. Reason: Merged posts.

  11. #391
    Pyke's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    @Ygraine,
    What is your Attila's campaign map mod ?

  12. #392
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    @Marco1234 I did some investigating and it seems patch 18 broke animations somehow in vanilla. I don't think it has anything to do with DV since we haven't touched animations. Do they work fine in DeI?

    @milhove01 Thanks for the heads-up!

    @Pyke This one: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...rchtext=attila
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  13. #393
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    @Marco1234 I did some investigating and it seems patch 18 broke animations somehow in vanilla. I don't think it has anything to do with DV since we haven't touched animations. Do they work fine in DeI?
    Yes it's a known issue. Not sure if it's a bug though, I believe they did it on purpose, due to animation performance issues. We have talked about it on Devs thread before a few days.
    Our animations are working as they are custo,m but we'll improve them further very soon.

  14. #394
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    there is a very interesting mod of battles that works very well with DV this steam is called ...MOVIE CHARGES... you could see it to see if they like it

  15. #395
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    Quote Originally Posted by milohve01 View Post
    there is a very interesting mod of battles that works very well with DV this steam is called ...MOVIE CHARGES... you could see it to see if they like it
    I wasn't aware of this one. Not 100% it won't brake our battle balance, but I'll check it for research.

    Cheers

  16. #396
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2g - Updated 11th January)

    Small hotfix is out.

    DV works with 1.2.2g so those that don't have automatic updates can safely download the latest DeI version. The hotfix out now just fixes some minor issues and makes some balance-changes. There will be a larger patch out in the near future.


    @milohve01 Thanks, I'll take a look at that mod. Right now cavalry is slightly better in DV than base DeI, so I don't think there's much else to be done in that department. Like Greek Strategos hinted at, when making major changes one has to take overall balance into account - otherwise things will end up either extremely overpowered or underpowered.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  17. #397

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2g - Updated 11th January)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    @milohve01 Thanks, I'll take a look at that mod. Right now cavalry is slightly better in DV than base DeI, so I don't think there's much else to be done in that department. Like Greek Strategos hinted at, when making major changes one has to take overall balance into account - otherwise things will end up either extremely overpowered or underpowered.
    @Ygrain can you do a separate post here that details the differences in cavalry between DV and DeI? I like some of the aspects of the latest DeI "Vanilla" battle system but I don't like how cavalry works. I am a lifelong horseman and I don't think overpowered charges and movement are the answer either.

    Also please could you make a version with the build times from DeI Hardcore? It feels unrealistic to me to be able to upgrade Rome in 12 weeks versus 2 years in DeI HC.

    Once the build times are changed I will do a full playthrough and give you detailed feedback. Deal?

    p.s. What are the unit upkeep stats for AI Barbarian factions? 20 turns in as Roma I am seeing 2 x 41 stack armies in Patavium plus another smaller army nearby. Where are they getting all this cash to upkeep them all?
    Last edited by MrMerisi; January 11, 2018 at 03:14 PM.

  18. #398
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2g - Updated 11th January)

    hello, you can see my comments I'm seeing that the update 1.2.2.g can not download greetings in relation to the mod that recommends also changes the infantry I found it very interesting what this mod does and with your experience could be used for DV I modified it myself a little and I liked it a lot I'm at your order any help you need...

  19. #399

    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2g - Updated 11th January)

    If using Cultural Tension and DAIA, what should the load order be?

  20. #400
    boblikesoup's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.2f - Updated 1st January)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    @boblikesoup

    What movement mod are you using? If you link it I can check it out in PFM, perhaps there's some undesired entries there that cause funky stuff to happen.
    On the other hand each region has a probability of having -% movement, due to "rough terrain" and the like. Perhaps that's what makes them march further than you? I'm also planning to add +% movement to each city/town tier representing how roads are improved in the region when you upgrade the city/town.

    No idea about sacking, we haven't touched any of those options so they should be more or less identical to DeI. As far as I remember this limitation is present in vanilla too... I think?

    The AI doesn't only look at relations when offering peace. The total amount of troops you have vs their amount matters too, if you are weaker than them they will be less likely to offer peace for example. I might lower the requirements in relations even further in the next patch but I think in your particular case it's the strength ratio or some other factor. I've gotten peace from factions on low green, yellow and even slightly red ones with the current relation-settings! The problem with lowering relation requirement even more is that factions you want to be at war with will spam you with peace every single turn. That's something I really hated in normal DeI before, so I upped the requirements a tad.

    You mean the "worn" layer on faction icons? Might do it in a future patch but it's not high on the priority list. To be honest I'd rather have them all without that layer as I'm sure they were quite adamant about having nice looking faction emblems back in ancient times
    The movement mod is http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...eta-12-01-2017 on this page http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1-2017/&page=8
    The marches were on the southern half of Italian peninsula.


    Regarding the diplomacy, it is a war with Athens (2 regions) and Sparta (1 region) where I am Syracuse (3 regions). Maybe number of troops weight can be brought down a little and add in some relative number of regions or income weight? It just seems pretty weird that they are +84 diplomacy and fewer regions and won't make peace. They are even at war with Rome which is like 6 regions and I am a mutual enemy of.


    For the banners I also like the newer fresher ones, but it's more the contrast between the worn ones and shiny ones that seem out of place and unimmersive.

    Thanks for being so responsive and putting so much effort into this It's pretty cool too I tried playing without this mod and Carthage would never attack me in Syracuse, but then with this mod they sent in invasion that I was happy to see.

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