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Thread: [Overhaul Submod] "Data Venia" (for DeI 1.2.5 - Updated 2019-08-21)

  1. #241

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    You can post here if you like as there are no separate subforums for submods!

    I haven't played the Romans in GC yet myself so I cannot comment on how to proceed with them. I did play with them in CiG though for a bit and it was fairly enjoyable! One of my friends who played them in GC said that it was a tough nut to crack Pyrrhus first but once that was done and the Etruscans were gone he could continue up north into the Po valley. Apparently keeping half an army at the southern town is enough to keep Syracuse at bay.

    Early game I always use cheap troops (no matter what faction I play) with only a few good units, since the AI mostly does the same. Due to the Romans having some of the most expensive troops I'd probably want to mostly use levy-class units early. As for taking Taras from the Greeks, you could use a "trick". Siege it with a small force (4-5 cheap units) and have your real force standing beside it. Make sure there's a supply route into the region too - that way you can wait them out without taking attrition with your main force from besieging (and no famine in case supplies end)

    The PO negative was nerfed from -35 to -25 a few patches ago!

    Dignitary agents are very important in DV (I've increased the amount you can have, but they also cost a bit more than in vanilla DeI) for maintaining your kingdom in all its aspects. Economy, public order, culture, empire maintenance, building -% construction costs and research bonuses all come in handy from their selection of skills. I suggest the first thing you do is to tech so you can hire more dignitaries. Also keep at least one general in each province as a "city governor". Only level governor skills with these characters, it will boost your public order/income by quite a lot as they become better and better at governing.
    Thanks for the reply! I see that as a good option opting for cheaper troops so Ill try that. I did indeed go straight for extra dignitaries but I had a 2x research mod enabled so Im going to disable that unnecessary headache. I noticed the purely governor trait line from the TTT commanders mod which is great. Only way you can realistically level a general though in Rome 2 is to have them campaign tho correct? Hmmm I tend to opt for the morale skills for gens initially and aim to try to campaign with 1 or 2 generals initially belonging to my political group. Well see what I do.

    Final question I have is for anyone, what method do you find best to deal with hoplite phalanx and pike phalanx? Surrounding them with infantry seems take much to long, rear shots from skirmishers is somewhat effective but I never have enough ammo for more than 1 or 2 enemy units and friendly fire is a problem and cav charges are moderately effective as well but theyre cut down slowly after each charge.

  2. #242
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by djensen2010 View Post
    Thanks for the reply! I see that as a good option opting for cheaper troops so Ill try that. I did indeed go straight for extra dignitaries but I had a 2x research mod enabled so Im going to disable that unnecessary headache. I noticed the purely governor trait line from the TTT commanders mod which is great. Only way you can realistically level a general though in Rome 2 is to have them campaign tho correct? Hmmm I tend to opt for the morale skills for gens initially and aim to try to campaign with 1 or 2 generals initially belonging to my political group. Well see what I do.

    Final question I have is for anyone, what method do you find best to deal with hoplite phalanx and pike phalanx? Surrounding them with infantry seems take much to long, rear shots from skirmishers is somewhat effective but I never have enough ammo for more than 1 or 2 enemy units and friendly fire is a problem and cav charges are moderately effective as well but theyre cut down slowly after each charge.
    Yes, the Legendary commander "Broad Minded Thinker" is pretty good (almost too good.. I might have to rebalance it a bit), and so is the basic DeI "City Governor".

    The governing exp rate is a lot slower than constantly fighting battles, yes. I recommend putting your governor-generals in border towns/cities so they participate in defences against the enemy. That way you'll expedite their levelling since combat gives more exp than governing.
    I very rarely go for morale since I felt that veterancy and other morale bonuses (from your generals political status, tech, embedded agent etc) usually boosts it enough. I pick them more based on what kind of faction/gameplay I use.
    If I play Scythians/Sarmatians or the Parthians I go for more ammo/more range/ranged damage buffs/reload speed/cav charge/cav stat boosts. If I play Hellenic factions I go for melee defence, armour buffs - you can probably use this for the Romans too (since armour bonuses scale the best when you already have a high base value). Playing barbarians I'd go for stacking lots of melee attack and minus to enemy morale!

    I've slowed down pike phalanx movement by a lot when they're in formation, so you could kite them around forever if you're alright at microing your units. The best way is to use ranged units, like you described. Try hitting them either in the rear or on the side where their shield isn't facing. When you get better troops later with higher armour values then pikes won't be as much of a problem since your men will hold out against them frontally long enough for you to flank. With hoplites you can deal fairly easily using sword or axe units. For example Apuli Extraordinarii (AoR unit) is an excellent early choice. It'll get easier later when you hit the Polybian reforms and get access to gladius-units.
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  3. #243

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Yes, the Legendary commander "Broad Minded Thinker" is pretty good (almost too good.. I might have to rebalance it a bit), and so is the basic DeI "City Governor".

    The governing exp rate is a lot slower than constantly fighting battles, yes. I recommend putting your governor-generals in border towns/cities so they participate in defences against the enemy. That way you'll expedite their levelling since combat gives more exp than governing.
    I very rarely go for morale since I felt that veterancy and other morale bonuses (from your generals political status, tech, embedded agent etc) usually boosts it enough. I pick them more based on what kind of faction/gameplay I use.
    If I play Scythians/Sarmatians or the Parthians I go for more ammo/more range/ranged damage buffs/reload speed/cav charge/cav stat boosts. If I play Hellenic factions I go for melee defence, armour buffs - you can probably use this for the Romans too (since armour bonuses scale the best when you already have a high base value). Playing barbarians I'd go for stacking lots of melee attack and minus to enemy morale!

    I've slowed down pike phalanx movement by a lot when they're in formation, so you could kite them around forever if you're alright at microing your units. The best way is to use ranged units, like you described. Try hitting them either in the rear or on the side where their shield isn't facing. When you get better troops later with higher armour values then pikes won't be as much of a problem since your men will hold out against them frontally long enough for you to flank. With hoplites you can deal fairly easily using sword or axe units. For example Apuli Extraordinarii (AoR unit) is an excellent early choice. It'll get easier later when you hit the Polybian reforms and get access to gladius-units.
    Good idea. Ill do that, use them to suppress those pesky rebellions. Interesting. I didn't take those other factors into account, minus experience of course, but I like the dread perk atleast, I feel that combined with Show of Force could be quite effective, will have to test. As for the phalanx info, thank you. Ill toss a couple of those guys into my rank asap. Appreciate the replies. I look forward to further work of yours!

  4. #244

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Yes it is. I already changed the amount of traps significantly from vanilla DeI. What did you have in mind?
    To get rid of the barricades in fort battles because full stack of enemy cant even break them down before towers shoot them on the run. Maybe add lots of other placeables instead ?

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    I'm digging the new names for confederations. Is there one of these for the Belgae tribes?

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by djensen2010 View Post
    Good idea. Ill do that, use them to suppress those pesky rebellions. Interesting. I didn't take those other factors into account, minus experience of course, but I like the dread perk atleast, I feel that combined with Show of Force could be quite effective, will have to test. As for the phalanx info, thank you. Ill toss a couple of those guys into my rank asap. Appreciate the replies. I look forward to further work of yours!
    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mouth Of Sauron View Post
    To get rid of the barricades in fort battles because full stack of enemy cant even break them down before towers shoot them on the run. Maybe add lots of other placeables instead ?
    I'll add it to my notes for one of the upcoming updates!


    Quote Originally Posted by Dead*Man*Wilson View Post
    I'm digging the new names for confederations. Is there one of these for the Belgae tribes?
    Belgae tribes use Celtic culture so sadly they don't have an unique name. I wish I could have more unique confederation names, but we're limited by the amount of cultures/sub-cultures. We were experimenting with letting Blemmyes, Meroe and Axum confederate into "The Kingdom of Kush" a few weeks ago but hit a snag. But it's possible we'll re-add it later.

    There are still some "default" confederation names that I haven't come up with a decent name for... If you have any suggestions for those, feel free to drop them in the thread!



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Played a coop campaign for a few hours today and tested two AFP-factions! Seems like everything is working fine with the exception of some Germanic factions using duplicate emblems. Once I fix these minor issues I'll release the update - tomorrow or on Friday. Perhaps I'll even have time to add some new edicts!
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 21, 2017 at 05:46 PM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    There are still some "default" confederation names that I haven't come up with a decent name for... If you have any suggestions for those, feel free to drop them in the thread!
    Which are the default ones ???


    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Played a coop campaign for a few hours today and tested two AFP-factions! Seems like everything is working fine with the exception of some Germanic factions using duplicate emblems. Once I fix these minor issues I'll release the update - tomorrow or on Friday. Perhaps I'll even have time to add some new edicts!
    Sounds cool. I'll try to have time during the weekend so to test new factions like Insubres,Veneti etc I always wanted to play with them.
    Cheers.

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    Which are the default ones ???
    Britannic Confederation, Celtiberian Confederation, Celtic Confederation, Gallic Confederation, Germanic Confederation! Been a little difficult for me to find suitable alternative names for these groups.
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  9. #249

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Britannic Confederation, Celtiberian Confederation, Celtic Confederation, Gallic Confederation, Germanic Confederation! Been a little difficult for me to find suitable alternative names for these groups.
    My 2 cents, maybe names that involve geography? Only one I can think of might be Confederation of the Rhine, for say Germanic? Idk.

    Ive been playing an Arverni campaign and so far have enjoyed it. I started out by blitzing, with mercenary sword band who are quite strong early game, to the main province of Aquitania and secured that. Having cheap spear to hold the line and then a few more elite sword merce and a mix of 9-10 skirmishers proved very strong. Cheap units hold the line, swords reinforce, and skirms flank the right to get optimal shots into the enemies unshielded flank. This was brutally effective with each skirm getting on average 100 kills a battle. Next I established as many trade agreements as I could, not mighty difficult having gold to trade. I then allied with Massallia who were very strong early. This provided a distraction for the Volvcae and their rebels allowing me to build up and then move in. I liberated Toulousa and Massallia conquered the Volcae. Since then the Pictones declared war so I conquered them securing my first province then finally knocked off the Aedui and secured their provincial capital. Of late I canceled my trade with all the factions occupying Celtica and knocked them off 1 by one to secure that province. That one proved more difficult due to my dumb idea of rapidly conquring all three regions. I ended up with, at its peak, -28 PO for 28 turns. Luckily I had a governor gen with PO household and a strong PO governor.

    So now for a few things Ive noticed.l, mostly minor things. First, Gaelaiche, spear unit avaible to most Celts, is listed on the Camp map and tooltip as light spear but in battle their tooltip says they are heavy spear units. Next, idk if my ambush chances are just too low at 55-65% but I even noticed this on my short playthrough of the Nervii who have a much higher 75-80% ambush chance, but neither I nor the enemy have been successful in launching an ambush. When either of us get in stance we disappear but AI always finds me and is able to attack. Normally I recall when this happens itll say something like "ambush failed, the enemy spotted you" or something like that. Instead it jus has the default battle set up either auto resolve or fight or retreat. I can kinda cheat the system if I saw and army diappear Ill jus multi click bit by bit to their position and ill run into them and theyll appear, no ambush, iterception or anything. They are jus standing there open to attack. Next, and its too late now to send you a save game because it resolved but was a pain for a while. I and Massalia were at war with the Celtic confederation, based out of the northern italian valley and surrounding hills. Suddenly, the tribe I liberated attacked Massalia. At this point Massallia had all their armies in mainland province in Celtica, who by the way completely desimated the supplies creating a total wasteland and any army in the area suffered attrition. Instead of marching back to defend they all jus sat there dumb and lost one of their settlements and only kept the capital because i counter attacked and wiped the enemy out. One the enemy was gone the went back to normal and continued their campaign against the Celtic confederation. Next, probably not a bug and maybe more of a question but is it supposed to be that the AIs units are stupid cheap? Like a unit that cost me 200-300 may cost the AI 50-75 in upkeep. This would make sense to allow them to have the 3-4 armies instead of the 1-2 as you indicate in the despotic of this mod. So jus wondering. Also, for diplomacy, every faction have the personality of Aggresive/Reliable, like every single one. The Reliable may be green or yellow but none the less the same. And this is far into the campaign. Lastly, is cultural affinity. Is this based on techs you research that give a minor or major diplomatic boost or you and a faction having similar culture or other things? If its based on having same culture then its kind broken cus as Arverni is diplomacy it says I have cultural affinity with nearly every faction from the Iberians to the Greeks, and I havent seen a negative effect on diplomacy, cultural aversion or w/e. Sorry for the long winded post <3


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  10. #250

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Also forgot to mention, I was in fortify stance occupying a small path narrow enough for what I thought my zone of control was able to prevent any army from entering my region. Welp, that didnt happen. They walked right in next to my army, then walked right out and attacked a small reinforcing army I had sitting back behind quite a ways. Abnormal or no?


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  11. #251
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Britannic Confederation, Celtiberian Confederation, Celtic Confederation, Gallic Confederation, Germanic Confederation! Been a little difficult for me to find suitable alternative names for these groups.
    Ι'll give it a thought and let you know.

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by djensen2010 View Post
    Also forgot to mention, I was in fortify stance occupying a small path narrow enough for what I thought my zone of control was able to prevent any army from entering my region. Welp, that didnt happen. They walked right in next to my army, then walked right out and attacked a small reinforcing army I had sitting back behind quite a ways. Abnormal or no?


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    Averni is one of my favourite factions! Lots of fun to play them, especially in CiG

    In regards of Gaelaiche, I haven't touched unit masses light/medium/heavy-tags so it's probably something in DeI. But maybe it's time I took a pass and checked all units for tag-consistency!

    I'll buff ambush stance %-chance in the next update, especially for "barbarians". Seems that the AI can "detect" you quite often though.. Probably #JustCAThings, like most other stuff.

    There had to be a lot of armies in that region for it to deplete its supplies (considering my regional supply values can even support 41-units per army). But it's just another AI behaviour thing, sometimes they do extremely stupid things - other times they go into "clever-mode" and actually surprise you.

    AI gets a reduction in upkeep, yes - otherwise their treasury would go into negative.

    You sure you don't have a mod that alters AI personalities? In my game reliable is a very rare AI personality! Maybe many emergent factions were set to be aggressive/reliable by Dresden, I haven't investigated this so cannot say for sure.

    The diplomatic boosts from tech increases/decreases the "cultural affinity/cultural aversion" bonus. So if you play Macedon for example, you will get less penalties with this tech!

    "Zone of Control" (the magic area around cities/armies that "blocks" movement) was lowered in DV, because I felt it didn't make much sense that already massive cities would also make it impossible for armies to pass through a region. Unfortunately it looks like cities and armies use the same value, meaning if I increase the ZoC for armies then you won't be able to circumvent cities in many locations. Perhaps I'll try with a small boost in a test-game.






    Edit: Going to be a delay on the patch due to some issues popping up.
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 23, 2017 at 04:49 PM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Britannic Confederation, Celtiberian Confederation, Celtic Confederation, Gallic Confederation, Germanic Confederation! Been a little difficult for me to find suitable alternative names for these groups.
    there was a western confederation formed by the Markomanni:

    Markamannoz

    including these factions:

    1. rom_suebi
    2. rom_cherusci
    3. rom_marcomanni
    4. rom_frisii
    5. rom_rugii


    and a eastern one formed by the Lugiones:

    Lugiones
    including these factions:

    1. rom_lugii
    2. rom_aestii
    3. rom_anartes
    4. rom_budini
    5. rom_gutones



    maybe this helps you a little bit - very nice ideas by the way!

  14. #254
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 17th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritter-Floh View Post
    there was a western confederation formed by the Markomanni:

    Markamannoz

    including these factions:

    1. rom_suebi
    2. rom_cherusci
    3. rom_marcomanni
    4. rom_frisii
    5. rom_rugii


    and a eastern one formed by the Lugiones:

    Lugiones
    including these factions:

    1. rom_lugii
    2. rom_aestii
    3. rom_anartes
    4. rom_budini
    5. rom_gutones



    maybe this helps you a little bit - very nice ideas by the way!
    Thanks, I'll have to scrounge the historical sources for more!

    Unfortunately you can only have one confederation-name per culture so unless there's a method I don't know about, we can only have one Germanic confederation-name at a time (since there are no Germanic subcultures in DeI). I did see the Markamannoz confederation in the subculture tables, but I've never seen it work. Does it work in vanilla DeI?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Patch is out & changelog updated!


    This was a massive update and I haven't had time to polish everything yet... Right now "Semnonoz" (celtic tribe) seems to crash the game when you try to start a campaign with them. I've tested a bunch of other random minor factions and they all seem to work. If some other minor faction crashes the game when you try to start a campaign with them, please report it so I can take a look at it!
    There's also some duplicate emblems among the minor factions (only in the faction-selection screen, for the Germanic tribes), they all have unique emblems in the actual game.

    There's a bunch of other changes like the edicts, new effects for chariots etc that I haven't had time to implement. They'll appear soon!


    If you play using 4TPY or 12TPY submods, you'll also need the latest version of these packs - otherwise you won't be able to play the new factions!
    Last edited by Ygraine; June 24, 2017 at 03:41 PM.
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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 24th june)

    @Ygraine.
    We could use Ancient Empires: Legions for DEI along with DV without issues, right ???

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 24th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    @Ygraine.
    We could use Ancient Empires: Legions for DEI along with DV without issues, right ???
    They have wrong stats, a manpower script needs to merged and possibly some db-tables!
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  17. #257

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 24th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    They have wrong stats, a manpower script needs to merged and possibly some db-tables!
    You mean can't play with this submod with yours?Only use one?

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 24th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by HuoShan View Post
    You mean can't play with this submod with yours?Only use one?
    You probably can, but things won't be working properly. The legions will have imbalanced stats and one manpower script will overwrite the other (depending on which one you load first).

    It's not a difficult task to make that mod working with DV, just time-consuming. I might consider it if more people want it compatible, but we'd also need permission from the original authors before doing anything.
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  19. #259

    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 24th june)

    I already read some other requests for making the 2 mods compatible, I'll look into it in the next few days, considering it's only a text/script patch it wouldn't really use need any of Caesar's/UMCenturion's content aside from the text/names/etc.
    Last edited by Dardo21; June 25, 2017 at 06:04 PM.

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    Default Re: [Submod] Data Venia - Overhaul (for DeI 1.2 - Updated 24th june)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dardo21 View Post
    I already read some other requests for making the 2 mods compatible, I'll look into it in the next few days, considering it's only a text/script patch it wouldn't really use need any of Caesar's/UMCenturion's content aside from the text/names/etc.
    Good to know Dardo.
    Cheers.

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