Japanese and nazi-chic

[Copperknickers II]

In Japan it is.
Like we view tattoos as ambiguous, but in Japan tattoos are heavily loaded with meaning, I've seen people being kicked out of restaurants, saunas, shops etc., with a shocking level of contempt (and borderline abuse), just for having tattoos. We view this abhorrence the Japanese feel for tattoos as peculiar, it is quite alien to us, just as they view our abhorrence for Hugo Boss apparel. To us: they're just tattoos. To them: they're just clothes. We haven't been conditioned to view them in the Japanese way and they haven't been conditioned to view them in the European way.
The Japanese have very different cultural conditioning to us, it doesn't mean they're more likely to reform the Nazi party and resume the holocaust, just as we with tattoos aren't more likely to join the Yakuza.

That's not a remotely convincing comparison. Japanese and Western tattooing traditions are entirely separate and independent from each other. Whereas the SS uniform was directly taken from Europe and is directly suggestive of Nazism in any cultural context, whereas Western tattoos are not suggestive of criminality in and of themselves.

No, you are concerned about particular purportedly nazi symbols because you've been subjected to European cultural conditioning, as have I. The Japanese have not. They have a different set of cultural conditioning. To assert that their cultural conditioning is somehow inferior or morally wrong; is a level of arrogance that is laughable.

It's not 'cultural conditioning' to identify unambiguous Nazi symbolism with the Nazis, because it's nothing to do with European culture. A Martian would still be able to identify an SS uniform as a Nazi symbol if they read a history book.

Would you say people with tattoos who don't consciously follow Yakuza ethics are somehow not showing respect for the victims of Yakuza crimes? Well in Japan that is essentially how it is viewed. Japanese culture conditions them to think along those lines (well it's changing now coming up to the 2020 Olympics, but let's not get into the semantics), just as our culture conditions us along the lines you have described concerning what we consider Nazi symbols.

That is absolute and you know it. Firstly, the victims of the Yakuza are not the victims of history's worst genocide. Secondly, if Westerners chose to get Yakuza style tattoos then I probably would question why they would want to identify themselves with such people, albeit that comparing common criminals to the Nazis is like comparing a drop of water to the Pacific Ocean.

I in no way claimed or implied that the holocaust is somehow less relevant to the Japanese people than it is to Europeans.
However their views on (what we consider) its symbols are undeniably very different.

An SS uniform is not the same as a Swastika: there was no SS uniform before the Nazis, it was invented specifically as the uniform for the Nazi elite military unit. A uniform is more comparable to the Nazi flag, black diagonal swastika in white on a red background. You can argue that a Swastika is not a Nazi symbol, but you can't try to claim that the Nazi flag is not... a Nazi flag.

To insist that others should obey your conservative, personal and extremely strict fashion taste for "moral" reasons, regardless of differing perspectives; is puritanical. That's like, literally the definition of the word.

If opposing Nazism makes me a Puritan, then call me Oliver Cromwell. Although some might say that restricting the Japanese wardrobe to 'literally anything other than the military uniforms of the German state from 1932 to 1945' would perhaps not be considered history's strictest fashion constraint.

[Phier]

When I first saw this, I thought of this thread.



Oh Lady Gaga, you so crazy.

[Diocle]

It's possible that millenials don't even know who he was, but to allieviate the charge on the poor Japanese guys in the questionable OP, here the Greatest Legend of Heavy Metal, his name is a legend in itself, he was Ian Fraser Kilmister (24 December 1945 – 28 December 2015), known as Lemmy Kilmister or simply Lemmy, the leader of Motorhead:



Instead this guy is the unforgettable Sid Vicious of the Sex Pistols:



.. and this is on the cover of Beatles' most famous album:



While this guy is Brian Jones, the founder of the Rolling Stones, in Nazi uniform:



So, what's the matter about Nazi stuff and pop music? She summarizes very well the matter the Punk rocker Siouxsie Sioux of The Banshees:



".. And you know what? I have to be honest, but I do like the Nazi uniform. I shouldn’t say it, but I think it’s a very good-looking uniform…It’s almost like you feel like saying, ‘Aw, come on. Nazis — they’re brilliant.’ Political correctness becomes imprisoning. It’s very…what’s the word? It’s being very Nazi! It’s ironic, but this PC-ness is so f..cking fascist.” *

* You can read the full article on this site: http://hipquotient.com/heil-heil-roc...and-the-reich/
​
I fully agree with Siouxsie, of course, but at this point what have we to think about Nazi uniforms, pop music and .. Japan? If we follow the OP, the lesson should be something like this:

- If you are WHITE, ANGLO SAXON, and PROTESTANT (it would be better if you are also born in UK), then you can wear Nazi stuff whenever you want, whereever you like, doing and saying whatever you feel right, nobody will be offended and no one will condemn you. But, if you are Japanese, beware, you cannot wear Nazi stuff in public, it's severely and strictly forbidden! -

This because Political Correctness follows a very strict racial policy! Didn't you know this fundamental truth of international PC-ness?


In any case, I would like to close this post, summarising what I think about Political Correctness and the OP, using Lemmy's voice:

"Highway to Hell"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[fkizz]

Seems the Original Post lacked research in the matter even more than I imagined.

[hellheaven1987]

Nazi chic in Japan is nothing now; in Taiwan HS student vote they want a Nazi parade during school festival.

[wartop]

The Japanese military also wanted to know how best to treat injuries, but to do this they would often use alive prisoners to operate on as test subjects. It is said that some of these prisoners were given deliberate diseases. Then the prisoner’s bodies would be opened up without anesthesia so as to learn about the effects of the disease before the body started to decompose.These people were called Marutas or Logs. The New York times with testimonies revealed what a surgeon of that time had to say about the act. “We just wanted to know what has happened inside!”Subjects had appendages cut away and reattached to the opposite side of the body, while others had their appendages squashed or solidified, or had the flow sliced off to watch the advancement of gangrene. At long last, when a detainee’s body was totally spent, they would normally be shot or slaughtered by deadly infusion, however, some may have been covered alive. None of the Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, or Russian detainees allocated to Unit 731 endure their repression.

See the image - https://www.thewhyculture.com/wp-con...orld-war-2.jpg

[Ukiah]

However, Nazi symbols are worryingly popular in pretty much every East-Asian country, like

Taiwan

or

Myanmar

and also propagated by

South Korean bands

, too.

Not in South Korea. And I really didn't see any being used in the other Asian countries except on the internet. It's not as popular as you think it is. The Korean Buddhists used to use a lot of swastikas, but remember that the Buddhists began to use that symbol long before the Nazis did. The Koreans stopped using it on their road signs to indicate a temple because the foreigners got offended by it. In my opinion, Asians really don't need to try to fit in every single thing that the others think is appropriate. The Asian Buddhists didn't tell the Nazis to use the swastika.

In Japanese (and Korean and Taiwanese) present culture there is a strong trend of cutification of everything: pandas are cute, food is cute, clothes must be cute and generally one should be very happy surrounded by cuteness. This is the second axis on which SS uniforms are inscribed: teenage (and teenage looking girls have to be cute).

School uniforms make that work

as the ultimate pedophile fantasy, and nazi uniforms as well. The themes of bondage, torture and sexual domination are very common in pop culture here and what better then dress your object of desire in vestiges casually evocative of such practices.

The real reason for the school uniforms in Korea is to prevent inequality in the price of clothes. As Korea became wealthier, more children began to wear expensive clothes. However, not every children had expensive clothes, and this caused a problem for their parents. It had nothing to do with Nazism.

Oh wait. You posted this in 2016...…….. Nazi symbols weren't prevalent in Korea at that time either.

[Love Mountain]

Not in South Korea. And I really didn't see any being used in the other Asian countries except on the internet. It's not as popular as you think it is. The Korean Buddhists used to use a lot of swastikas, but remember that the Buddhists began to use that symbol long before the Nazis did. The Koreans stopped using it on their road signs to indicate a temple because the foreigners got offended by it. In my opinion, Asians really don't need to try to fit in every single thing that the others think is appropriate. The Asian Buddhists didn't tell the Nazis to use the swastika.

Nobody is saying that it's something an average person might fancy to wear on any given day. I would liken it to the cosplay/anime culture in United States. It's definitely popular enough for it to be a concern. It's understandable that most Asian cultures don't have the same context that Western society does that makes any kind of Nazi-chic completely inappropriate for any reason, but that's really not a good excuse for a country like Japan where this trend seems especially prevalent. Admittedly, it is mostly based on fashion, but it's still disturbing.

The real reason for the school uniforms in Korea is to prevent inequality in the price of clothes. As Korea became wealthier, more children began to wear expensive clothes. However, not every children had expensive clothes, and this caused a problem for their parents. It had nothing to do with Nazism.

Oh wait. You posted this in 2016...…….. Nazi symbols weren't prevalent in Korea at that time either.
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A Korean socialist might certainly say that. Most people would say that it's done for uniformity and discipline. Probably for the same reason that most S. Korean eSport teams have uniforms, regimented schedules, and a adherence to hierarchy.

[basics]

When I was a kid there wasn't a close in which injured men lived having returned from the war. Today these men are but a memory but the their picture never leaves me and so I hope and pray that no-one ever has to live through that again. To glamourise pure evil is done I'm sure for shock purposes and attention grabbing in the hope that a few bucks might well be the outcome. It's nothing to do with PC, no it's about decency and respect for all them that stood against such evil.

[Gromovnik]

TBH, wearing a nazi uniform could be appropriate in some cases. For instance: if you want to get shot, wearing a nazi uniform is a good way to advertise your desire. Just put on one of those and improve yourself, grow as a person.

[AqD]

TBH, wearing a nazi uniform could be appropriate in some cases. For instance: if you want to get shot, wearing a nazi uniform is a good way to advertise your desire. Just put on one of those and improve yourself, grow as a person.

You don't get shot today by wearing Crusader's outfit in Palestine or Roman armor in Israel. What's the obsession here? To many people the event means nothing but a page in the long and bloody human history.

Everyone would have to be naked if you apply the same logic to all groups who have committed genocide.

When I was a kid there wasn't a close in which injured men lived having returned from the war. Today these men are but a memory but the their picture never leaves me and so I hope and pray that no-one ever has to live through that again. To glamourise pure evil is done I'm sure for shock purposes and attention grabbing in the hope that a few bucks might well be the outcome. It's nothing to do with PC, no it's about decency and respect for all them that stood against such evil.

Are you shocked by the images of Templars and Hospitallers? Do you think the land you reside on as your own now have always belonged to your people and not stained with blood and corpse? A few centuries of peace and people have forgotten how we all got what we have now.

[basics]

AqD,

The big problem is that we have never had a few centuries of peace.

[AqD]

But more than a generation already.

The reason, I suspect, is simply to justify and deter anyone from challenging the existing borders by portraying the losing side of last war as evil. Which is purely self-serving.

[Common Soldier]

You don't get shot today by wearing Crusader's outfit in Palestine or Roman armor in Israel. What's the obsession here? To many people the event means nothing but a page in the long and bloody human history.

There is a huge differnce in time between the Nazis ane the Crusaders. Many have personally the victms of the Nazis while the Romans are ancient history. There is a huge difference that happened 1000 years ago and something that occurred less than a 100 years ago.

Everyone would have to be naked if you apply the same logic to all groups who have committed genocide.



Are you shocked by the images of Templars and Hospitallers? Do you think the land you reside on as your own now have always belonged to your people and not stained with blood and corpse? A few centuries of peace and people have forgotten how we all got what we have now.

The Templars lived a lot longer than a 100 years ago, which is the difference. No one is even remotely alive from the time of the Templars, but there are still those alive from the time of the Nazis. That is the difference.

[Gromovnik]

You don't get shot today by wearing Crusader's outfit in Palestine or Roman armor in Israel. What's the obsession here? To many people the event means nothing but a page in the long and bloody human history.

Everyone would have to be naked if you apply the same logic to all groups who have committed genocide.

And to many people it means something else. And in any case, shooting nazis is incredibly fun. BTW. not everyone walks around in a uniform, you know.

[AqD]

The Templars lived a lot longer than a 100 years ago, which is the difference. No one is even remotely alive from the time of the Templars, but there are still those alive from the time of the Nazis. That is the difference.

You explained my point

Is that logical at all, attempting to ban something globally based on the feelings of a small group of human population? It's not even over 1/3 or 1/4.

As far as I know nobody in Asia give a about Nazi and WW2 is about Japanese not Germans.

BTW. not everyone walks around in a uniform, you know.

A dress is a dress. "uniform" is just an interpretation. Surely people can find better things to do than caring what others wear and trying to get themselves pissed off over certain fashion choices?


PS: I doubt most people would still care about it today if western governments and medias haven't been so aggressively depicting negative images of Nazi. Jap atrocities are largely forgotten and nobody today is offended by the image of emperor or whatever.