The European Refugee Crisis

[removeduser_487563287433]

As we know, the European Refugee Crisis rumbles on. In Western Europe this week the French are set to clear "The Jungle" - the illegal migrant camp outside Calais where migrants hope to make the crossing to the UK, living in squalid conditions. There are known to be accompanied child refugees living in the camp, the documentation of whom has been passed to the British Government this week, who have agreed to take them in. Some 500 unaccompanied child refugees have already made the crossing on their own and are cared for by the local Government in Kent - my home county.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36714617
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-35403862

Unfortunately, despite the large numbers of unaccompanied child refugees arriving in Europe and the trials they undergo during their journeys (female child refugees are disproportionally less likely to successfully make the journey, and fall victims to sex trafficking), there is a persistent accusation that these are not in fact under-age individuals. In response to this David Davies, Brexit supporting Tory MP, has demanded they have their teeth checked to check their age.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37700074

The British Dental Association has obviously objected immediately based on the practice being unethical. Worth rememinding that there are some genuinely trying to keep even minors from shelter.

[Fanest]

Rename this to UK migrant trading or migrant teeth inspection because based on OP we have nothing else to discuss about.

[janessa642]

Rename this to UK migrant trading or migrant teeth inspection because based on OP we have nothing else to discuss about.

yes. you are right.. we cant

[Incontinenta Buttox]

"The British Dental Association has obviously objected immediately based on middle class virtue-signalling"

Fixed that for you. Most of these "children" look older than me. "Shave the children" ...how apt!

[Prodromos]

Sorry, how reliable is this teeth thing? Can it tell the difference between a 19 year old and a 16 year old? The effects of malnutrition on growth are well-documented. Since most of these people are malnourished beyond belief, their "medical age" (bone age for example) could be a decade below their chronological age.

[Ludicus]

their "medical age" (bone age for example) could be a decade below their chronological age.

Nope, sorry.There is a delay in bone maturation, but it is does not significantly affect the bone age. (11-18 months, no more. Not a decade)

[Prodromos]

Nope, sorry.There is a delay in bone maturation, but it is does not significantly affect the bone age. (11-18 months, no more. Not a decade)

In more severe cases, bone age can trail chronological age by years. In cases of long-term anorexia nervosa, for instance, people in their mid 20s often have a bone age of 15 or even less, depending on when the illness started. If you're severely malnourished, your growth essentially halts. And I don't think most refugee-producing countries are known for having excellent nutrition.

The British definition of a child seems to be any <18 year old, regardless of physical, psychological or other development. There is no way they will be able to tell a 19 year old, or maybe even 21 or 23, from a 17 year old. Many of these tests were designed with healthy, well-nourished Western children in mind. They are utterly useless on other populations.

And I don't see why 17 year olds deserve protection more than 19 year olds. Probably a PR stunt, as always. They're saving "the children", you see.

[Harith]

In more severe cases, bone age can trail chronological age by years. In cases of long-term anorexia nervosa, for instance, people in their mid 20s often have a bone age of 15 or even less, depending on when the illness started. If you're severely malnourished, your growth essentially halts.

There's a difference between growth stunt and bone age. Two fundamentally different things.

If a person is malnourished, osteoclast activity is significantly higher, meaning that the body breaks down bones to supply itself with enough calcium. Often times this results in less bone density (hence why the elderly are prone to bone breaking), but if the malnourishment is severe, it can also stunt growth.

Bone's age doesn't change. Samples taken from mid points of the long bone should reliably tell use the age of that person. New bones only grow on the end points and on the inside of the bone (where the bone marrow is) to increase density.

[Prodromos]

There's a difference between growth stunt and bone age. Two fundamentally different things.

If a person is malnourished, osteoclast activity is significantly higher, meaning that the body breaks down bones to supply itself with enough calcium. Often times this results in less bone density (hence why the elderly are prone to bone breaking), but if the malnourishment is severe, it can also stunt growth.

Bone's age doesn't change. Samples taken from mid points of the long bone should reliably tell use the age of that person. New bones only grow on the end points and on the inside of the bone (where the bone marrow is) to increase density.

Bone age stunting and growth stunting usually go hand in hand, so that the potential for growth after the growth-stunting illness is gone [mostly] remains. Bone age doesn't refer to the bone's actual age, but merely how similar it looks to the bones of healthy, well-nourished children. The bones examined are usually those of the wrist or hand. If an XRAY examination shows the bones to look most similar to, say, the bones of a healthy 16 year old, the examined child is said to have a bone age of 16. This is useful for determining growth potential or the presence of growth-retarding illnesses, but it isn't a good way to determine chronological age in most human populations.

An XRAY of refugees will give a significantly lower bone age than their chronological age. This is quite common in adopted children from poor countries. All these refugees probably grew up on nutritionally-empty vegetarian food. Their growth patterns are not similar to those of Western children at all.

Unless you are referring to a different test on a different bone, then this method is very unreliable for non-Western populations. What specific bone exam are you referring to? I am not sure how reliable teeth exams are, but I am guessing they similarly don't account for variation caused by environmental factors or genetics.

[Ludicus]

how reliable is this teeth thing?

The margin of error in determining age through dental age assessments or x-ray reports is approximately +- 2 years in protein energy malnutrition children. (PEM)
Evaluation of dental age in protein energy malnutrition children
--------
The most appropriate approach is to use a holistic evaluation.The Age Assessment Tool questionnaire has an accuracy within a range of approximately 2 years.
Table 5,
Age determination in refugee children

[DaniCatBurger]

It might be helpful to explain how relevant it is not to lie to officials and that they are just human beings that require a degree of cooperation to help.

It seems probable then that a good number of the underage refugees understand this and in consequence will provide the correct answer when they were asked.

[Prodromos]

The margin of error in determining age through dental age assessments or x-ray reports is approximately +- 2 years in protein energy malnutrition children. (PEM)
Evaluation of dental age in protein energy malnutrition children
--------
The most appropriate approach is to use a holistic evaluation.The Age Assessment Tool questionnaire has an accuracy within a range of approximately 2 years.
Table 5,
Age determination in refugee children

Thanks. I had a suspicion that it was 2 years. Very similar to bone age exams. I wonder if the MoE is larger for older children.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Sorry, how reliable is this teeth thing? Can it tell the difference between a 19 year old and a 16 year old? The effects of malnutrition on growth are well-documented. Since most of these people are malnourished beyond belief, their "medical age" (bone age for example) could be a decade below their chronological age.

It's not. As per the source (yet still the only ones provided) it would give inconclusive results.

[Pinarius]

Swedish pediatrician: Some 'children' nearly 40

[Heinz Guderian]

when i was at school, we had this new kid called Akhmed start with us one september. we were 14 at the time, and Akhmed was also officially 14 but the thing is Akhmed was built like one of those guardtowers in Balkh which kept the Mongols out. we obv deployed him as a back row in our 1st XV and other schools would complain and ask to see a record of his birth certificate. he had a full beard and arms like Hulk Hogan from the 90s when he was proper doing coke and roids not like Hogan from the noughties when he was fat. we'd give the egg to Akhmed and he would just plough through these children all elbows and knees. we'd have code words for our line outs and scrums, but the opposition quickly caught on that we would just give the ball to Akhmed and point him north. we won the national trophy that year by beating Leeds Grammar in the final. I will always love Akhmed even if he was actually 34 with 5 kids. Couldnt speak a lick of english but affable and loving.

[fkizz]

Debated to death. Previous thread closed for a reason.

[removeduser_487563287433]

German police have been shot by a member of an anti-refugee far-right group. Attacks by far-right activists have been rising in Europe alongside reactionism towards the refugee crisis:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37705054

The Home Office has ruled out dental checks on arriving unaccompanied minor migrants:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37706862

Some quarters have been questioning the age of these migrants, with the Daily Mail using face recognition software on pictures. This has been prompted a reaction from the developer Microsoft, desperately pointing out their app cannot be used as a reliable age checker.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ld-refugee-row

[removeduser_487563287433]

EU leaders meet today to discuss the migration crisis:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37680509

Another 300,000 have made the journey by sea this year.

[Iskar]

Gentlemen,

I am quite sure you will be able to continue the physiological discussion on bone based age diagnosis in the Athenaeum and leave this thread to the political side of the refugee crisis.

Thank you.

[Basil II the B.S]

Germans flocking out of Germany because of Merkel's failed immigration policies:

• More than 1.5 million Germans, many of them highly educated, left Germany during the past decade. — Die Welt.
• Germany is facing a spike in migrant crime, including an epidemic of rapes and sexual assaults. Mass migration is also accelerating the Islamization of Germany. Many Germans appear to be losing hope about the future direction of their country.
• "We refugees... do not want to live in the same country with you. You can, and I think you should, leave Germany. And please take Saxony and the Alternative for Germany (AfD) with you.... Why do you not go to another country? We are sick of you!" — Aras Bacho an 18-year-old Syrian migrant, in Der Freitag, October 2016.
• A real estate agent in a town near Lake Balaton, a popular tourist destination in western Hungary, said that 80% of the Germans relocating there cite the migration crisis as the main reason for their desire to leave Germany.
• "I believe that Islam does not belong to Germany. I regard it as a foreign entity which has brought the West more problems than benefits. In my opinion, many followers of this religion are rude, demanding and despise Germany." — A German citizen who emigrated from Germany, in an "Open Letter to the German Government."
• "I believe that immigration is producing major and irreversible changes in German society. I am angry that this is happening without the direct approval of German citizens. ... I believe that it is a shame that in Germany Jews must again be afraid to be Jews." — A German citizen who emigrated from Germany, in an "Open Letter to the German Government."
• "My husband sometimes says he has the feeling that we are now the largest minority with no lobby. For each group there is an institution, a location, a public interest, but for us, a heterosexual married couple with two children, not unemployed, neither handicapped nor Islamic, for people like us there is no longer any interest." — "Anna," in a letter to the Mayor of Munich about her decision to move her family out of the city because migrants were making her life there impossible.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9...eaving-germany