GTCS - Generals' Traits' Common Sense fix (for 0.9.2)

**Lifthrasir** · February 20, 2017, 03:44 AM

About alcohol in Europe, I've read recently that it was considered as food somehow, briging the necessary missing vitamines and nutriments during Winter time. However, it has to be confirmed.

Alcohol could be used as medicine by Muslims. There are several records of that fact.

The university system existed also in the Muslim countries as well.

**Jurand of Cracow** · February 27, 2017, 08:46 AM

One observation on the GTCS traits, from a recent experience: it is very easy for a general to became coward. It's described in the guide:

"If he withdraws pre-battle, especially when the odds were even, or loses battle without a serious fight, or is routed, or doesn’t engage personally in fighting during even a won battle, he is very likely to get cowardly (50% in each situation). He may also get this trait if he fights weaker forces (50% if odds are more than 2-1)."

I think it's a right approach: in the middle ages the generals were required to personally fight the battle, so you cannot keep him safe, you've got to risk. Also constantly fighting weaker forces is dangerous from this perspective - it serves to the purpose Byg had trait "Over Confidence" in his BGR IVE.
And keep in mind that: "If a general gets the first level of Coward, there’s a self-perpetuation of this trait (3%, learning generals are immune)." It's actually quite powerful given the low thresholds (1,2,3)

**XXZit** · March 11, 2017, 03:46 PM

There are a couple of typos as well. Sorry, I don't know how to edit my post.

**Jurand of Cracow** · October 07, 2017, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow

One observation on the GTCS traits, from a recent experience: it is very easy for a general to became coward. It's described in the guide:

"If he withdraws pre-battle, especially when the odds were even, or loses battle without a serious fight, or is routed, or doesn’t engage personally in fighting during even a won battle, he is very likely to get cowardly (50% in each situation). He may also get this trait if he fights weaker forces (50% if odds are more than 2-1)."

I think it's a right approach: in the middle ages the generals were required to personally fight the battle, so you cannot keep him safe, you've got to risk. Also constantly fighting weaker forces is dangerous from this perspective - it serves to the purpose Byg had trait "Over Confidence" in his BGR IVE.
And keep in mind that: "If a general gets the first level of Coward, there’s a self-perpetuation of this trait (3%, learning generals are immune)." It's actually quite powerful given the low thresholds (1,2,3)

I think here is the answer to the question why Coward is so easy to get in my submod. It's not intended, I'll fix it somehow in the next release.

Code:

;-------- Coward from Battles -------------;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward1_No_Killed_Enemies
 WhenToTest PostBattle
 
 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 5
       and GeneralFoughtInCombat
       and GeneralNumKillsInBattle < 2
 
 Affects Coward 1 Chance 50

**Jurand of Cracow** · February 07, 2018, 03:37 PM

In the export_desc_character_traits.txt replace:

Code:

;-------- Coward from Battles -------------;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward1_No_Killed_Enemies
 WhenToTest PostBattle
 
 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 5
       and GeneralFoughtInCombat
       and GeneralNumKillsInBattle < 2
 
 Affects Coward 1 Chance 50

with

Code:

;-------- Coward from Battles -------------;------------------------------------------
Trigger BattleCoward1_No_Killed_Enemies
 WhenToTest PostBattle
 
 Condition IsGeneral
       and BattleOdds <= 5
       and GeneralFoughtInCombat
       and GeneralNumKillsInBattle < 2
 
 Affects Coward 1 Chance 1

(the difference is just 50 to 1)

It's save-compatible so you can use it in your current game.

**Menqel** · February 07, 2018, 09:12 PM

Oh ok thanks! Speaking of the code, isn't also a problem with the ChivalriousLegacy? The first trait has a threshold of 5, I think it should be 1, right?

**XXZit** · March 11, 2017, 03:44 PM

Hello there. Thank you for the well thought out, immersive and realistic changes. I agree with most of them. However, I've found a few syntax bugs; most are easily fixable by adding the missing "Trait" keyword.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I wasn't able to solve the ancillary errors though. I checked the ancillaries file and those crown ancillaries are defined and seem to be correct. I don't know why the game can't parse these lines.
Perhaps it will be more apparent to you, I barely know anything about modding the game.

If you do find how to fix them, a post with the solution would be very greatly appreciated. I quite like those triggers and it's a shame they're not working right now.

Thanks.

**Jurand of Cracow** · March 12, 2017, 12:44 AM

Hi XXZit, actually tmodelsk found solution to most of them and I've introduced it into my files. I'll try to post it next week or something.
In any case, these glitches don't break the game (no CTDs, afaik), and they marginally impact on the work of the traits.
(you cannot edit your posts untill you reach 25 entries)

**XXZit** · March 12, 2017, 07:17 AM

Well, that is good to know

If he couldn't solve the ancillaries problem, I found a workaround. I noticed all of the triggers do the same thing, affect FatherLegacy for one point with a 100 percent chance; that is if the father of the new general has a crown, be it Polish, English, Dane, etc.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

So Instead of checking each crown, I made a hidden trait called CrownedRuler which is updated when a crowned faction leader becomes a father. A trigger checks for this trait when the faction leader's children come of age, if the leader has it, then the children get 1 point of FathersLegacy. This way we make sure that the king has has had a crown for long enough to ensure his children will grow up under its influence. Instead of getting the crown one turn and the next his child comes of age.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Here's the export_character_traits file with all the fixes:

**marcp** · December 08, 2017, 05:16 PM

Thanks for pointing this out JOC. I cannot quite recall but the two battles I noticed cowards trait coming from were ones where the general lost half his company in a close victory...I was all set to have the youngster gain 1 exp. point and just maybe a decent trait.

I know for a fact that one Governor was given this trait whilst never having fought in a battle...and as you point out her the trait did perpetuate...though at some point I was able to reverse it by 1 after a battle won. I like your redone trait system but as I mentioned in general thread, for this trait to appear in back to back turns to several of my nobles was frustrating. I find SSHIP to be quite the challenge, especially in the first, critical 5-10 turns or years. I felt this to be more of an engine obstacle and therefore it took away from my enjoyment and investent in the campaign.

I will try to stay abreast of any updates and advice.

Thanks Mark,.

**Jurand of Cracow** · December 14, 2017, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn

GeneralNumKillsInBattle: Works, but it only counts the number of kills the general himself gains, not how many kills his BG unit gains. For this reason, make sure to keep the #s used in this condition low, since even getting a few kills per battle can be difficult. There's no way to tell how many kills he's actually gotten, since the post-battle screen will only state the amount of kills/captures his BG unit gained. A big letdown as a condition IMO, since it should be tracking his BG unit kills, not how many he has personally made(no way for the player to determine that during a battle or post-battle)

For me pro-memoria: this condition may be used in a positive way: if a general really kills by himself (and not his BG) a number of the enemies (say 5), then it should get easier some traits like Scars or Brave (or SeverlyWounded for that mattter).

**Menqel** · February 04, 2018, 07:33 AM

hey Jurand! I came back to SSHIP and I want to play with your submods! I think you should edit your first post with the tmodelsk fixes!
Thank you for your work <3

**Jurand of Cracow** · February 05, 2018, 01:51 AM

You're probably right, but I think it wouldn't change anything - I haven't seen any negative impact of the errors.
However, I should fix the problem of GeneralNumKillsInBattle as it gives the Coward trait. You'd better to fix it yourself if you play it.
I you have any comments after playing - please post it here.

**Menqel** · February 07, 2018, 02:05 PM

Can you describe more the "GeneralNumKillsInbBattle" Fix? What I need to do?

For now, I think your fixes are ok! I just started to play in a different way, for example now I have a dedicated "education" city, without market and other corruption buildings

**Zooasaurus** · February 12, 2018, 08:36 PM

Is this savegame compatible?

**Jurand of Cracow** · February 13, 2018, 01:28 AM

Yes, it is save-compatible in the sense that:
- it won't make CTDs,
- the new triggers for the traits will fire,
- when the new levels of traits will be gained then the new lower-level benefits will be subtracted and the new higher-level benefits will be added,
- the new descriptions of the traits will appear immediately.

The caveat is:
- after application of the submod the characters will have the new descriptions of the benefits but in-game the characters will still have the old benefits.

For instance, consider a following situation.
I. A trait in the old version would give 2 levels:
AverageGuy: +2 Chivalry GoodGuy: +4 Chivalry
and this submod modifies it that the levels give:
AverageGuy: +1 Chivalry, +1 morale GoodGuy: +1 Chivalry, + 2 Morale.
II. Your general has the AverageGuy level.
III. After application of the submod, he will still have effectively +2Chiv, but the description will say "+1Chiv, +1 morale"
IV. When he gains the second level, only the difference changes, so he will have "+2Chiv, +1morale", while the description will say "+1Chiv, +2morale".

However, I don't think it's a huge problem and I used always newer versions of the submod over my games, and this was not misleading.

**Pyres Δt Varanasi** · February 15, 2018, 03:55 PM

Any news on a new update for this @Jurand?

**Jurand of Cracow** · February 18, 2018, 03:50 AM

JoC_traits_mods.zip

This is an update containing some work on the submods:
- Education of Generals
- GTCS (money traits, personality traits etc.)
- Princess fix (concerning NoComingBack bug)
- Loyalty (fix of Near / Far Loyalty, and also VineFynn fix of the usurper mechanics)

The two reported issues (legacy and coward) are fixed.

cheers
JoC

**Charles the Man** · August 20, 2018, 08:37 AM

Hi Jurand, do you mind if I use your mod as a base for a roleplay mod? I want to focus on settlement and ancillary triggers to guide the development of generals (eg. brothel line vs monastery line for drink/sobriety, girls/prim, etc; monk ancillary providing -drink, -girls triggers, etc.). I like many of the changes you've made and appreciate the work on eliminating NoGoingBack. It would save me some time to work from GTCS instead of regular SSHIP

**Jurand of Cracow** · August 20, 2018, 03:41 PM

Hi Charles,
I obviously don't mind. Feel free to use it.
But maybe you can post here some code and explanations for the triggers when you do them?
Besides, be aware that there're many strange things in the EDCT. As an example, a few mistakes in the code for the Priests that I've spotted while working recently on the new update:
- there's a trait for them "Corrupted", but in the triggers for "Corrupt" was used (a trait reserved for family), so it was a dead part;
- some traits didn't exist (eg. HeresyImmunityNonCatholic), but the triggers for them - yes. (actually, there's a trait Heresy_Immunity_NonCatholic)
- there;re problems with "Heresy_Immunity_AI" trait resulting in a dead mechanism.
- the "Unorthodoxy_Bonus_AI" were not present in the triggers.

Thread: GTCS - Generals' Traits' Common Sense fix (for 0.9.2)

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