Well they used elements from their timeframe, even isolated breastplates, helmets, weapons to put on the early saints of Constantine era much like the Vlachs, Bulgarians, Serbians and Russians put their own contemporary gear on saints. You can see vast variations of the gear saints have. In our days most are depicted as western knights. As we show them with closer dated and more easy to identify, better known armour by the great majority, soldiers and heroes of their times or even the pronoia clerics that were the main contributors to churches and priests probably expected the same thing so original gear was changed, only in present day we begin to depict them as Roman legionaries. Back then most were transformed in Medieval Romans. Many pronoia nobles gave money to be depicted as their patron saints. My thought is that there were cases of better equipped late units, I mean that 14 th century icon of a saint wearing a late breastplate is otherwise depicted as a hoplite. You can see that the breastplate copies the traditional lamellar pattern. Many breastplates were mixed with scale and lamellar on the sides and back or lower frontal area, the torso, however pectorals, the heart was protected by plate or enforced metal stripes and even central discs as it happened in the past with the Sabellians. You do not see that during the early Romans, they only had pure breastplates, chain, scale, lamellar or lorica segmentata but no mixed cuirasses. That or platemail over chain shirts. Most likely padded was added later as well. You can see that there are still some very well equiped, western like saints depicted as well. Some have the western greatsword or the Turko-Arabic scimitar. That circullar armor was later adopted by the Sipahi so contemporary, in our timeframe I mean. Most likely some had full plate and western helmets as a vast number of western helmets was found by archeologists alongside traditional Medieval Roman gear. Like the Vlachs in the late 14 th century, they imported mostly Italian gear. Still they combined gears to keep their identity as they were proud of their origin. And another thing, Vlach in the time of Radu I imported 10,000 scale suits of armor for their cavalry so scale was still "fashionable". These armors were used even by Mircea the Elder so durable as well. Scale and lamellar are much better in general against piercing damage and if I remember right the Janissary of the Ottomans still used bows alongside hand guns. Plate is better against slashing damage but vulnerable to piercing so that is why it was reinforced with chain underneath or padded and studded leather cuirasses that were used over chain but also lamellar and scale. Also as I said the torso was reinforced with plate in many cases, in the late era, you can see these kind of saints together with longswords and greatswords, hand or wrist, buckler like, shields. They also had western like tabards and cloaks. The early Romans didn't. Cavalry also started using square or round shields and many are prepared for fighting dismounted as well. You can see versatile units armed with the lance, sword and bow and wielding great shields, ready to fight in any circumstance. They replaced the cataphracts. Most likely there were still pure lancers but armed with the breastplate and western helmets. The cataphracts were last used during Manuel but they are a good addition and maybe there were still some imperial reserves used mostly for ceremonial purposes. Most of the cavalrymen of the late era should still be swift and transformed in hussar like shielded light lancers and scouts armed with lamellar round pattern shaped cuirass, bow, sword and spear together with large shields preparing to fight dismounted as well. Late cavalry was probably used for reconnaissance and skirmish activities, the base being archers and English and Venetian heavy dismounted knights clad in full plate armor. Most likely the locals acted as squires and skirmishers and were lightly armed. Still the guards could be heavy. You already know the scoutatoi late way of fighting. Javelins first, well probably arrows from the archers would harras the enemy artilery and avangard troops as well and later their ranged troops, then swordsmen and from behing the medium and heavy spearmen. A strategy still similar to the early Romans that used hastati first and then reinforced with principes. Of course auxiliary troops of crossbowmen and light skirmisher infantry and cavalry of the border guards or Akrites. Cavalry didn't have the same impact because they fought in strongholds mostly. The pronoia was fighting as Crusaders, for Christianity as the Empire was bankruped and probably were less stable and reliable, beign less disciplined and arrogant, they became similar to the feudal lords of Hungary and the west extracting tribute from their periokoi, free men, living and working on their domain, similar to the klerouchoi and katoikoi of the ancient era of diadochoi. Like the western knights most likely were capable of fighting dismounted if the situation demanded. They preffered defensive tactics instead of the famous cavalry charge copied later by the Sipahi. They still used the Varangians as shock troops to disrupt formations and reintroduced native excubitores, the Paramonai and the Varangians of Hungarians, probably reinforced by other settling nomads of Turkic origin and Tartars as well. They were the scouts or avangard cavalry similar to the Cumans regiment or the Szeklers and were prepared to fight dismounted as well, most likely having a spear instead of a lance using tactics similar to the Curteni Horse Archers of the Vlachs. The Paramonai were armed with swords and also mounted horses. I think, I am not sure, they acted as early Excubitores. Scutatoi evolved in heavier spearmen, the Kontaroi and acted as dismounted MAA using similar knightly small shields as found depicted in churches. The light swordsmen were most likely fast gathered and trained conscripts of free people used as meat shields and to aid the knights who if fallen had to be helped to get up because of the heavy armor and even directed because of the poor vision and hearing. Also they got tired fast and were the men of the hour, many times saving the day so had to remain fresh or literally draw their breath. You can also observe the monstrous pavise like shields the spearmen have of concave form to better defend them, even surrond their body completely, present at heavy archers as well. They also have greatswords probably acting as MAA in close quarters. Many are depicted with both heavy shields and lighter bucklers so probably a wrist secondary shield. Horse archers have them as well for close quarter dismounted fighting. Some horsemen even are depicted with shoulder concave square shields. I guess they were lancers as they have breastplate. The ones with light shields are dressed in lamellar and scale. You can see that the cavalry armor is present at spearmen and foot archers as well so probably the cataphracts were disbanded and the gear was reused. There are depictions of kite and tear drop both straight and concave shields of all sizes, including pavise like oblong shields, also both straight and concave. In most cases a extra heavy spearman, heavy archer-swordsman and lighter swordsman are depicted together so probably a strategy of spearmen holding the line and protecting archers untill they finish amo and light infantry as screening forces. Archers would then reinforce the spearmen. Possibly some even carried spears as they are depicted with very heavy shields, not suitable for cavalry, bows, swords and spears. Light spearmen and swordsmen are also depicted together in the sides of more important and better armed warrior saints so my guess is they were squires of knight like guards. There are depictions of swordsmen with medium shields and wearing breastplates as well. Some cavalrymen also have tabards but fewer than the spearmen, both medium and heavy and greatswords. By heavy spearmen I mea with breastplate and medium with scale or lamellar. The mixed plate and lamellar is present mostly at greatswords so a native unit of greatswords as well. The Paramonai!? Some warriors with sword and small tear trop shaped shield have it too. The Spatharioi!? Or the other way around as spatha means greatsword. Next some spearmen and cavalrymen have it too but most have pure plate cuirasses, lamellar and scale. Also some spearmen, archers and cavalrymen have pure plate cuirasses and chain underneath. So a interesting mix of new possible late units.
Is it possible to make mixed spearmen and greatswords, having the greatsword as secondary weapon!? If so they should be the proposed Excubitores Kontaroi. Some could carry two shields, the small buckler like round one beign used as a wrist shield for dual wielding. Then from the proposed Paramonai Spatharoi and Excubitores Kontaroi only one unit could be made called
Kontaroi Spatharioi I gueass. I think it is possible as we made that for the Thracian Rhomphaiophoroi of Roma Surrectum 2 who used the rhomphaia falx like, polearm sword as both "deffensive and offensive spear". That would be something different wouldn't it!? The greatsword is a polearm too if we come to thing about it. Now that would be a unique unit! And look at it! It's all over the place! Units depicted in multiple spots and ocassions in the Byzantine Orthodox Christian world, church paintings, icons, as having both the spear and the greatsword. Also many units have both large and small shields, both spearmen/swordsmen and spearmen/archer/swordsmen. I know that unfortunatelly three weapons can not be implemented even if I think I remember it was done by the Divide et Impera team for their Parthian Cataphracts. Now that would be even greater!
Let's recapitulate: extra heavy greatswords, spearmen, swordsmen, archers and lancers, medium spearmen, archer-spearmen, lancers and archer-lancers and light spearmen and swordsmen. If we try to name them they would be: * extra heavy:
Paramonai Spatharioi - greatswords, with mostly the "mixed plate and lamellar cuirass" and some having buckler shields, tabards and cloaks,
Varangopouloi (Varangian Poulain/Norman Knights!?) - greatswords of English origin clad in full plate,
Excubitores Kontaroi and
Cretan Kontaroi, two separate units or simply
Constantinople and Cretan Kontaroi and made a single mixed unit of Medieval Romans of Constantinople and Cretan diaspora - spearmen, probably reintroduction of Comnenian like guard spearmen and having large round shields, immense both straight and concave, oblong, tear drop and kite shields alongside breastplate and the "mixed plate and lamellar" and simple scale cuirasses. Guess there were "mixed plate and scale cuirasses too". If united with the Cretans than isolated highly decorated studded leather cuirasses with chainmail shirts underneath too. Some could be given pure soldid metal plate cuirasses and chain underneath, padded or decorated studded leather cuirass and chain underneath too even, cloaks, isolated western allied spearmen in full plate or partial plate can be added too,
Paramonai,
Cretan Excubitores or
Paramonai and Cretan Excubitores (two separate units but similar, first beign native Palace guards while the later diaspora guards, fled from Venetian Crete or Crusader Crete, they could be even made a single unit if I think about it as they can be mixed and called exactly that, to show the late mixing and gathering of units from all the Philhellenes) - swordsmen, longsword, concave square, oval, round all sizes, normal but highly decorated breastplate, also studded leather decorated cuirasses, cloaks, isolate western allied and/or mercenary shielded shordsmen wielding the longsword can be added too, full and/or partial plate,
Excubitores Mourtartoi - archers, higly decorated breastplate, some heaving chain underneath, large concave square, oval, tear drop, kite shields, large round as well, longsword and bow, Venetian full plated heavy archers isolated appearences too,
Athanatoi (replacers of Kataphraktoi), no horse armor, cataphracts are only depicted in a church in Mani and in a painting of St Artemios) - lancers, higly decorated breastplate, cloaks, lance and sword, isolated presence of Western Knights amingst their ranks,
Kavallaroi - lancers acting as avangard hussars, shield cavalry with mixed west and native gear,
Western Allied Knights, Latinikon {1,200 French in Constantinople 300 Burgundians in the service of Despot of Mystras} (optional as their 2,000 representatives will be included in the units of the late roster of the Empire of Constantinople) - western,
Western Allied Knights Dismounted, Latinikon Pezoi or Pedites (optional) - full plate armor and with polearms, poleaxes and greataxes, longswords, medieval pikes * heavy:
Western Allied Spearmen, Latinikon Kontaroi (optional) - full plate and partial plate heavy western spearmen,
Kontaroi Mourtartoi - archer-spearmen, lamellar round shaped pattern, scale, both bucklers and large kite and tear drop straight and concave shields, some having breastplates, spear and bow,
Vardariotai (mixed natives, Hungarians of Vardar, Turkic settled nomads, allies and mercenaries) - archer-lancers, lamellar, scale, spear, bow, bucklers,
Vardariotai Dismounted, Pronoiaroi - "the mixed plate and lamellar cuirass", breastplate, lamellar, scale, tabards, sword, concave square and round shields, sword cavalry acting as squires for the western style cavalry,
Pronoiaroi Dismounted, Skutatoi Spearmen - scale, lamellar, "the mixed plate and lamellar cuirass", tabards, oblong, kite, tear drop, round medium and small shields like western MAA have, isolated Western Spearmen in partial plate too,
Skutatoi - lamellar, scale, tabards, round shields of all sizes, oblong, kite, tear drop shields of all sizes both straight and concave, "V" shaped as well, isolated presence of breastplate Western Swordsmen medium:
Tzangratoi - native crossbowmen, Toxotai - native medium archers with lamellar and scale, Genoese, English and Venetian crossbowmen and English and Venetian Archers with breastplates (made two single units of mixed native and allied and mercenary western troops,
Tzangratoi and
Toxotai),
Spatharoi - greatswords or shielded swordsmen with longswords with only breastplate of mixed west allies and natives,
Paramonai Khoursores - higly decorated cuirass, shield and sword light hussars, sword melee supporting cavalry, somewhat light but fast and elite, swift supporting cavalry, mostly used as scouts and driving away enemy skirmishers, supporting allied ranged troops as well * light:
Akritai Equites or
Prokoursatores,
Akritai Prokoursatores or both units added - horse archers instead of javelin cav, with bow and sword,
Akritai - javelin precursors swordsmen,
Stratiotai - Albanian and Italian mercenary hussars and scouts. Also some representants of the allied autonomous Despotate of Morea and for the separate and rival Empire of Trebizond and Theodoro. Some native and mercenary handgunners too. Mercenaries from west were mostly used as knights, crossbowmen and handgunners. For Allied Western Troops can be used Italians, Venetians, Genoans and English. No Germans from what I know, only Hungarians and Serbians used them. Oh yes and Catalan Almughavars for tier 1 and 2. Other Catalan units too as they were 6,500. Tartar Allied Cavalry, Vlach Horse Archers for tiers 1 and 2. Knights of Rhodes. Serbian Allies. Bulgarians mostly were enemies. Karamanians and Georgians and Zengids for Trebizond. Some Albanian settlers of Attica too for Morea, the Amartoloi or how were they called? The Arvanites. Amartoloi and Klefti were involved in future riots. Amartoloi were border guards and Klefti were like Robin Hood, what was he? Not thief... well you get the picture!
Morea {Moreas or Morias in Greek}: Moreas or Despot Latinikon (300 Burgundian knights), Moreas or Arvanites Stratiotai (Albanians), Moreas, Mystras, Despot or Maniates Pronoiaroi (natives and western successors, especially Frankish but including Catalans as well as briefly a Catalan knight seized control in Morea devastated by constant Maniot and Albanian revolts), Arvanites (Albanians fighting at first as mercenaries but then resettled to fill the gap of many Greeks decimated by wars and epidemics, light infantry with javelins but versatile), Arvanites Spatharoi (great and/or longswords including the curved sword), Arvanites Handgunners, Moreas, Despot or Mystras Kontaroi (dismounted knights with spears), Moreas or Maniates Skutatoi Spearmen (Maniots), Moreas or Maniates Skutatoi (mixed polearms of natives, Albanian Arvanites and western successors), Moreas, Mystras or Despot Spatharoi (western and native greatswords), Armatoloi (Maniot borderguards), Armatoloi Handgunners, Kleftis (Maniot pirates and later guerilla mountaineers), Kleftis Handgunners, Latinikon Tzakones (western mercenary crossbowmen), Latinikon Handgunners (western mercenaries). Let's see:
Despot Latinikon (western look, 300 Burgundian knights in the service of the Despot of Mystras), Despot Kontaroi (western look, dismounted knights with spears and halberds), Mystras Pronoiaroi (mixed noble cavalry), Arvanites Stratiotai or Arvanites Khoursores (Albanian hussars and scouts, mixed style), Maniates Skutatoi Spearmen (natives dressed mixed style), Maniates Skutatoi (natives dressed in western style and with polearmes, poleaxes and medieval pikes, greatswords), Moreas Spatharoi (mixed greatswords or longswords), Arvanites (javelin precursors swordsmen), Arvanites Spatharoi (curved longswords), Arvanites Handgunners, Armatoloi (could be archers or light spearmen/swordsmen or even archer-spearmen), Kleftes (pirates and guerilla mountaineers, resistance fighters), Maniates Peirates (levies and pirates, light swordsmen, curved blade, corsairs), Armatoloi Handgunners, Kleftes Handgunners (militia), Latinikon Tzakones (crossbowmen, mercs) and Latinikon Handgunners (mercs). This could and should be a entire new faction with Maniots, Albanians and Western successors and mercenaries. It should be called Morean Despotate or Despotate of Mystras. First it was allied with the Latin Empire but then the Despot gave his territories and strongholds as ransom for his liberty. They continued to face the Ottomans even if divided. Some joined the Ottomans including Greek and Albanians to suppress the Maniot-Arvanites riots. The Maniots continued to resist however and joined the Venetians. In the 18 th century they migrated in Crimea and Odessa tofether with Fanariots, Macedonians, Epirots, Cypriots and Pontians by sea to form the Filiki Eteria. Epirotes and Macedonians used caravans and left Greece by land. Their revolution started the Greek War of Independence in the 19 th century. Maniots were skilled sailers and pirates alongside Fanariots, Cypriots and Pontians and many times used the pirate flag as a symbol alongside other flags and the inscription: Niki I Thanatos, I tan I Epi Tas (Victory or Death, Come Home With This {Shield} or Upon It) or Ek Tis Koneos Mou Anagenomai (From My Own Ashes I Will Rise Again {Phoenix}). They are the successors of the Spartans. I chose Mystras Pronoiaroi instead of Moreas Pronoiaroi because since like forever cavalry was scarce in the Peloponnese, probably most of the nobles fighting as infantry so Moreas Spatharoi. I added Mystras Pronoiaroi because Mystras was the capital and likely the place of the Royal stables together with foreign mercs and allies in the direct service of the Despot. I also added Khorsores, predecessors of Hussars, Serbian Gusars more exactly of Albanian Arvanites settlers from the Autonomous Principality of Arbana, Arvana or Arvano, Arbanon, future Albania that started migrating since the 12 century in Thessally, Atica and Mani in the service of both Roman and Latin lords, settling the desolate lands, decimated by war and plague. They continued their migration until the 16 th century.
I said above that I do not know of German knights as Latinikon but they existed. First Goth and Vandals, Lombards, Normans, Germans, Franks, Hungarians, Italians, French, Burgundians. Antiochian westerners too.
The correct terms would be Kleftes and Armatoloi. Kleftes or Kleftis after the Ottoman occupied Morea retreated in mountains and acted as resistance guerilla troops and Armatoloi were hired by the Ottomans to stop their insurgence but many times allied the Klephts and turned against the Ottomans. It was a place of constant riots, hard to pacify. Armatolos means soldier.
I made some research regarding Byzantine painting of Saints in churches and icons using their contemporary military gear. Do check the previous page of the Research Thread as well as there is another post there. Well I'll just add the link to that page too. Also I avoided using secondary sources like Ospray illustrations. I am aware that there are some manuscripts depicting the regular army but my point of view is that the officers and guard elite troops were left out, included though in places of worship where most likely the nobles contributed as it happens in our days as well. For instance my great grandfather, a wealthy noble, owner of large estates in many surrounding villages, of both Greek and Bulgarian origin funded the church from his village, helped building it alongside other important local structures and his name is inscribed on the walls alongside other contributors, bought icons and chandeliers from Greece and was a model for some of the Saints depicted on the church walls as most likely happened with the patrons of fine arts earlier on.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Thread/page10
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Thread/page11
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...RA-units/page4
https://stefanosskarmintzos.wordpres...-of-byzantium/
Byzantine greastwords:
Byzantine Extra Gear (new types to fallow)
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Originally Posted by You_Guess_Who
