Some questions

[Maetharin]

Hey guys!

I´ve re-read Bar-Kochva and I have to say that in some cases, I have more questions than before.

He sometimes refers to Griffith´s "Mercenaries of the Hellenistic World", but completely omits his IMO rather reasonable assumption that Ptolemy only had about 5000 kleruchoi at hand at Raphia. Has this assumption already been discussed and/or disproven elsewhere?
Because Bar-Kochva never even mentions it and cites a gigantic numerical advantage for Ptolemy´s forces.
(Edit: ok I've jumped the Gun on that one, but I'm not quite convinced, both Griffith and Bar-Kochva make great arguments)

Concerning the Hypaspists of the Agema, doesn´t Bar-Kochva argue that they got rid of the additional "of the Agema"?
Furthermore, Griffith once writes about Hypaspists in the context of a Ptolemaic palace intrigue, perhaps as part of the standing army at Alexandria.
Do you think perhaps there were Hypaspists in the Ptolemaic field army? Maybe as part of the Agema

That´s as far as I´ll go, but be ready for more curiosity later on^^
Thx in advance

Best regards

[Maetharin]

Heya another question, when Plutarch says the Achean Thureophoroi aren´t as steadfast as the Phalanx, does he compare them only to the Macedonian Phalanx or Phalanx in general?
IMO it´s confusing when historians use the word Phalanx, because it can mean many things, a Hoplite Phalanx, Macedonian Phalanx, Shield Wall aso.

Furthermore, I´m quite confused about the actual size of Thureoi.
They seem to have come in several sizes or the word could mean any shield as opposed to the "heavy" Phalangite or Hoplite shield.
Or, if Thureoi all were relatively similarly sized, the increased staying power of Thorakitai could have come from their armour,
as Bar Kochva indirectly suggests when he says they were able to climb without their shields since their body armour offered them protection from the enemy skirmishers.

What are your thoughts on this?

Best regards

[Petellius]

Heya another question, when Plutarch says the Achean Thureophoroi aren´t as steadfast as the Phalanx, does he compare them only to the Macedonian Phalanx or Phalanx in general?
IMO it´s confusing when historians use the word Phalanx, because it can mean many things, a Hoplite Phalanx, Macedonian Phalanx, Shield Wall aso.

Interesting question, especially as thureophoroi troops (not sure the achaean ones but definitely other thureophoroi) were able to form a phalanx themselves. I believe the Thureophoroi phalanx was more of a hoplite phalanx than pike (they didnt carry pikes and that would make them not very light, light troops, so hoplite/shieldwall makes sense. As such maybe he means a hoplite phalanx, or a phalanx made by more heavier troops than the relatively light thureophoroi. It's an interesting question for sure.

[Maetharin]

Another question that bothers me is the availability of armour in greece and the hellenistic world
F.e. the military Codex of Amphipolis only states fines for officers who lost their body armour,
but does that mean that only officers wore armour or that only officers were issued armour by the state?
Also, what did the Greeks consider body armour, was it only metallic armour or were organic armours just not mentioned, since they were so readily available

I could f.e. Imagine that only officers of the Phalanx wore proper breastplates, whereas Pikemen were simply supposed to take care of their own armour, be it leather, quilted linen or wool aso.

Concerning the Thureophoroi, from what I remember, their shield was always considered light and smaller in comparison to Phalangite shields(?). Does that in turn mean that Phalangite shields had become bigger again? Or because Thureoi didn't have any metal covering? It's also sometimes described as too narrow to protect the body, and as I wrote before, Thorakitai could own their staying power to their armour, or there were different kind of Thureoi. From the pictoral evidence I gather it was in fact their armour, because their shields IMO always look rather puny, but that could be attributed to artistic freedom...

Anyway Thx in advance

[Willhelm123]

The vast majority of our Greek units wear no body armour or linothoraxes. People play a lot with the armoured units which says the perception a little, but AE in general has less armoured units than most other mods or vanilla TW.

Our Thureophoroi have thureos shields which are fairly big but not huge and they are quite light. The thureophoroi units have good stamina and they are improved in the next update with the ability to use skirmish mode, loose formation and shield wall, very versatile units. Same for thorakitai, their armoured brothers.

[Maetharin]

Hey Guys, another question
Who actually came up with increasing the length of the Sarissa?
I somehow remember that it was Antigonos Monophthalmos,
who if I remember correctly also increased the size of the shield.
But no matter which of my books I consult, I can't find anything on the topic.
So does anyone have an idea where I could read up on it?

[Petellius]

Hey Guys, another question
Who actually came up with increasing the length of the Sarissa?
I somehow remember that it was Antigonos Monophthalmos,
who if I remember correctly also increased the size of the shield.
But no matter which of my books I consult, I can't find anything on the topic.
So does anyone have an idea where I could read up on it?

I was about to say Will, until I noticed you meant historically xD

[Maetharin]

All of this Is meant historically

Else I'd ask in the corresponding threads
But I'm also happy for knowing how you're doing in the mod

[Maetharin]

Another little question, when Diodorus puts 9000 greeks in Antigonos' Phalanx at Paraitakene, what does he mean by that?
Does it mean they fought in their native fashion (Peltasts and Hoplites) or where they trained to wield the Sarissa?
Because IMO this could have serious implication for some units in the hellenic roster.

Also, where the silver shields of Eumenes Phalangites or Hypaspists?
Their outperforming other Phalangites indicates the former, but they originally were Hypaspists.
We know that Hypaspists were often used with alternating equipment, but how did they fight in field battles?
As part of the Macedonian Phalanx or as Hoplites?
Because their role would be occupied by other crack Corps in later periods and therefore their Equipment would be also similar IMO

thx in advance