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Thread: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2 (included in 097+)

  1. #101
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    I guess for now you can keep the initial name until we find out. It might take a while to find all settlements' names for each culture (if possible )
    Yes, but if Svir@c is ready to assist, then I wouldn't mind if he delves into this subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldgrimr View Post
    I can't seem to find any old Swedish/Norwegian/Danish word for it, but it seems to have been borrowed from "krone".
    so: Krone Danmark ?

    Quote Originally Posted by j.a.luna View Post
    mmm ok it is a pity...but for romans(byzantines), no is more correct the tittle of dux or strategos of...than knyaz of...(this is more for russians)
    When you begin for iberian peninsula tittles i will have the correct tittles hehe
    Ortodox names: for some provinces the titles will indeed be Greek (like Chersonesos), but for the other Knayz ... skyi.

    BTW -I'm I've already used your files to make some work on the crowns for Britain, Italy and Spain. I'd be very grateful if you could do the same with France and Northern Africa and also with Egypt (up to Ascalon).
    Mod leader of the SSHIP: traits, ancillaries, scripts, buildings, geography, economy.
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    If you want to play a historical mod in the medieval setting the best are:
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    Recently, Tsardoms and TGC look also very good. Read my opinions on the other mods here.
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  2. #102
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    I guess the best title would be "*country*s krone" If you wanna use "crown of *country*".

  3. #103
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Hold on a second. I take France if you don't mind

    Also, it seems that there are several old Norse words for king: buðlungr (also used for prince), fylkir, gramr, jǫfurr, lofðungr, þengill and as already mentioned konungr. I also found that king of the English can be translated in old Norse by Engla konungr. The old Norse was spoken at least until the 13th century. Some sources say even until the 1st half of the 14th century. All in all, for Denmark, what about Danmǫrk konungr
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  4. #104
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    For Denmark, the correct term would be Danakonungr (Dane-king).

  5. #105
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Thanks Mate. That was my feeling but I couldn't find the translation in old Norse for Danes
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  6. #106
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Also, the correct term for the king of Norway would be Noregskonungr.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    I found that Norrœn could fit for Norwegian
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  8. #108
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    I found that Norrœn could fit for Norwegian
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  9. #109
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Norrœn most often means "Norse" or "Northern".

  10. #110
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    So in that case and if I get it right, we can reasonably use the following titles:
    - King of Norway: Noregskonungr
    - King of Denmark: Danakonungr
    - King of Scandinavia (admitting the player has conquered Norway, Sweden and Denmark): Norrœnkonungr

    Is that correct?
    Question: should we include Finland for the last title?
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  11. #111

    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    BTW -I'm I've already used your files to make some work on the crowns for Britain, Italy and Spain. I'd be very grateful if you could do the same with France and Northern Africa and also with Egypt (up to Ascalon).
    Your wishes will be granted...
    Tonight FRANCE:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    FRANCE
    -Roazhon
    -Angers
    -Rouen
    -Poitiers
    -Bordeaux
    -Toulouse
    -Clermont
    -Arles
    -Lyon
    -Nizza
    -Orleans
    -Troyes
    -Dijon
    -Paris
    -Rheims
    -Gand


    DOWNLOAD HERE:
    FRANCE.7z

    THE MORE YOU SWEAT NOW,
    THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE!!!



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  12. #112

    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Furthemore here you have the other part, NORTH AFRICA AND EGYPT
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    NORTH AFRICA AND EGYPT

    -Murrakus
    -Fas
    -Sigilmasa
    -Tilimsan
    -Al-Jaza´er
    -Tunis
    -Al-Mahdiya
    -Tarabulus
    -Al-Qahira
    -Dumyat
    -Al-Iskandariyya
    -Qus
    -Asqalan
    -Tayma
    -Makkah



    DOWNLOAD HERE:
    NORTH AFRICA AND EGYPT.7z


    Last edited by j.a.luna; April 02, 2017 at 05:43 PM.
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  13. #113
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    So in that case and if I get it right, we can reasonably use the following titles:
    - King of Norway: Noregskonungr
    - King of Denmark: Danakonungr
    - King of Scandinavia (admitting the player has conquered Norway, Sweden and Denmark): Norrœnkonungr

    Is that correct?
    Question: should we include Finland for the last title?
    That is correct, but you don't have to include Finland, considering they were never counted as Nordic.

  14. #114

    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldgrimr View Post
    That is correct, but you don't have to include Finland, considering they were never counted as Nordic.
    So there will be crowns for all factions(England,Castille,Poland,France...)? and also hypothetical crowns when unifying countries or large regions like Spain,Italy, Restori Imperi for Romans, maybe also Great Khalifa(for all muslims)...
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; April 03, 2017 at 12:54 AM. Reason: Off-topic part removed
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  15. #115
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    @ Eldgrimr, thanks for the confirmation. I had doubt since I've read that Finland was actually a real Swedish colony.

    @ j.a.luna, that's the idea. Btw, I said I was taking care of France

    @ JoC, still regarding France, do you still want to use the local language for the titles?
    I'm asking to check it in the right way. Also, the question for Flemish settlements will be: should we use their French names or their Flemish names? For instance, Gand is French where Gent is Flemish. The region's name in French (nowadays French, not the old one) is "Flandre Orientale" (East Flanders) where it is "Oost Vlaanderen" in Flemish.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; April 03, 2017 at 01:26 AM.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  16. #116
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    General remark on the crowns: guys, please refrain from the sweeping comments until I publish a thread on the crowns. They exist now in the EDA/EA, some are broken already on coding (not existing names), some are broken on conditions (crown of England requires you having Coimbra), in general they're just a chrome with little use in the game. The names are also generic, with some totally ahistorical ones ("King of Slaves").
    I'll try to fix it without extending - at least for the first version. And before any modding the analysis will be submitted to your comments.
    For now, I'm in the analysis phase collecting the necessary information. j.a.luna's work is very helpful, as is your info on possible names.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldgrimr View Post
    I guess the best title would be "*country*s krone" If you wanna use "crown of *country*".
    There's just King of Skandinavia titel. Wait to see the analysis :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    - King of Scandinavia (admitting the player has conquered Norway, Sweden and Denmark): Norrœnkonungr
    Question: should we include Finland for the last title?
    This will be in the analysis and proposal. You need to take both history and gameplay into consideration - and this case is pretty straightforward, the answers are: yes, yes. (they concept of the crowns will also be defined also in terms of the countries' ambitions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    @ j.a.luna, that's the idea. Btw, I said I was taking care of France
    @ JoC, still regarding France, do you still want to use the local language for the titles?
    I'm asking to check it in the right way. Also, the question for Flemish settlements will be: should we use their French names or their Flemish names? For instance, Gand is French where Gent is Flemish. The region's name in French (nowadays French, not the old one) is "Flandre Orientale" (East Flanders) where it is "Oost Vlaanderen" in Flemish.
    j.a.luna's work is very helpful irrespectively who's in charge of France
    France: you'll have an initial and final voice on the titles, Lifth
    This is a question about our approach to the names of the titles. We need to find a way between different approaches so that the players feel it historical, as I've described here.
    I think up to the HRR the titles should be in French. This was the language mostly used. And we should not make too many versions I think. It was my approach eg for Poland and Hungary - they're in Latin, even though I could apply local languages.
    Actually, I would also consider applying French to the English titles. But I'm not sure. However, the name of the crown of Britain should be in French, I suppose (or Latin?).
    For Spanish province I think Spanish language should be applied (old version, if known), and for Italian - Latin. For the Balkans - Latin, and perhaps also for whole Africa.
    (of course, I mean here only catholic titles, since orthodox and muslim are different).
    Mod leader of the SSHIP: traits, ancillaries, scripts, buildings, geography, economy.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................
    If you want to play a historical mod in the medieval setting the best are:
    Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project and Broken Crescent.
    Recently, Tsardoms and TGC look also very good. Read my opinions on the other mods here.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods (all made in 2018): SSHIP, Wrath of the Norsemen, Broken Crescent.
    Follow home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Hints for Medieval 2 moders: forts, merchants, AT-NGB bug, trade fleets.
    Thrones of Britannia: review, opinion on the battles, ideas for modding. Shieldwall is promising!
    Dominant strategy in Rome2, Attila, ToB and Troy: “Sniping groups of armies”. Still there, alas!

  17. #117
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    @ Eldgrimr, thanks for the confirmation. I had doubt since I've read that Finland was actually a real Swedish colony.
    Yeah. While Norway, Sweden and Denmark were formed through national unification, Finland were a bunch of non-Nordic pagan tribes that were conquered by Sweden in the 12th century through a crusade.

  18. #118
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Well, if you want to use French, then it should be the old French (like for the Scandinavia with the old Norse). I don't think it makes a huge difference for the titles anyway, just slight adjustments such as f.e. and for king: "Roi" in modern French and "Roy" in old one

    Regarding j.a.luna's work, I don't deny it. It is just more simple for me to find the old names in my native language, a bit like Eldgrimr for Scandinavia

    Edit: I've made a mistake above "Roy" is not from the Middle Ages but later. Below, the titles in old French.
    - Emperor - Emperere
    - King - Reis or Rois (depend on the regions)
    - Duke - Duc
    - Count - Cuens or Cons (depend on the regions)
    - Baron - Baro (not sure it will be used - from "sacerbaro" meaning something like law clerk)

    I also confirm the the old French (as it was spoken in Paris) was used by the English Nobility until (at least) mid-15th century. Prior to the 13th century, it was more a Normand dialect named the franco-normand but I don't think it is useful for the game
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; April 03, 2017 at 04:53 AM.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  19. #119
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Ok, Lifth, so you can have a go and assign the names of the titles:
    Roazhon
    Angers
    Rouen
    Poitiers
    Bordeaux
    Toulouse
    Clermont
    Arles
    Lyon
    Nizza
    Orleans
    Troyes
    Dijon
    Paris
    Reims
    Gand

    j.a.luna - could you also check the names of the provinces as they appear in the game? Then Lifth can assess if those names are still ok.

  20. #120

    Default Re: PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2

    ok, here i go...
    Roazhon/Britanny
    Angers/Anjou
    Rouen/eastern Normandy
    Poitiers/Poitou
    Bordeaux/Aquitaine
    Toulouse/Languedoc
    Clermont/Auvergne
    Arles/Provence
    Lyon/Dauphiné
    Nizza/Nice
    Orleans/Orleanáis
    Troyes/southern Champagne
    Dijon/Burgundy
    Paris/Ile-de-France
    Reims/northern Champagne
    Gand/Flanders


    NOTE:For Spain and Iberian Peninsula i can help with tittles,names...i would like do more historical my country and i can be helpful, also my descriptions for settlements are very historical and with each characters for unique settlements
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