PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2 (included in 097+)

[Eldgrimr]

Oslo's name should be Áslo, and it should have this seal, which is from 1300, the oldest seal of Oslo. (same as the modern seal but instead of a woman lying at the bottom, it should be an armed warrior)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bergen can still be called Bergen, as you can see on the seal below (Bergensi). Bergen's old seal from the 1290s had two sides, but you can use the castle, as that was probably the most common.

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Skara can just be called Skara, here is the old seal.

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I can't find any old names for Sigtuna, so just go with that. You can use the same seal, considering it has barely changed over the years, except for the crown.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kalmar's name should be Calmar, and here is their oldest seal, from the 1250s.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Visby should be called Wysby, here's the seal.

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I can't find any old names or seals for Lund, sorry.

Roskilde should probably be called Roskilde. Here is the oldest seal I could find, but it's a bit broken.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ribe is Ribe, and their seal seems to be the same as it is today.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Jurand of Cracow]

Thanks, Eldgrimir for the material! This is exactly what we need!
So what do you think if you open the j.a.luna's file: which pics are ok and which should be changed?
Bear in mind that:

1) a pics in the game is really small: 33x41 pixels (like Oslo above). It should be visible and distinct from the other PTs so that a player looking at a general recognizes which PT he holds.
2) the player's prefer rather colours so only part should be dark. We may change it of course, but then - see point 1.
3) Visual depiction changed through the centuries so we're looking for the best choices from 12-16 centuris (or later, if unvailable or didn't exist - like, I suspect, in the case of some Cumanian provinces).

[Eldgrimr]

You can keep Oslo's (Áslo) modern seal, considering it's so small that you won't notice a difference.

For Bergen you can use this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can keep Skara's seal, considering the only difference is the size of the buildings.

You can keep Sigtuna's seal, as it almost looks identical to the old one.

The only coloured seal of Kalmar (Calmar) I could find is based on the seal from the 1300s, but that will have to do. Use this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For Visby (Wysby), use this:

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Use this for Roskilde:

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You can use the seal of Ribe that you already have, considering it looks the same.

Some rep would be appreciated.

[Lifthrasir]

That shouldn't be a problem to color the old Kalmar seal based on the "modern" colours
I'll see what I can do.

Edit: Just found that doc while looking for something else: https://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/2a%20rev%20order.pdf
That's a pdf doc about the Swedish seals in which you can see the one for Kalmar and the one for Visby (beside a bunch of information)

[Jurand of Cracow]

Using the opportunity I repeat my request from the other thread:
have a look at this entry and this entry and could you tell me
1) if the names of the provinces in-game are right,
2) what titles should I use for these cities (for the catholic factions, for the rest they'll be generic),
4) what descriptions should be made (see the end of the entry here).

For instance, for Cumania part of the work is as folows (actually, I don't have any new ideas for the names of the provinces yet):

Iasi ___ Moldavia ___ Dux Moldaviae ___ the land of cattle farmers and traders as well as the cultured townsfolk.
Sharukan ___ Chazaria ___ Comes Chazariae ___ the endless steppes.
Azaq ___ Lower Dnieper ___ Comes Tanais ___ the endless steppes, feritile waterlands and trade run by the nomadic tribes.
Sarkel ___ Don Basin ___ Comes Scythiae ___ the vast steppes controlled by the lords respected and admired by the nomadic tribes.
Tmutarakan ___ Kuban ___ Comes Bosphoris ___ the land where trade has been vibrant since the ancient times.
Saqsin ___ Volga Delta ___ Comes Saqsinis ___ the feritile lands and swamps of the huge river.
Aktobe ___ Aktobe ___ Comes Actobae ___ the land of vast steppes with swift but ferocious horse riders.
Bulgar ___ Volga Bulgaria ___ Dux Bolgharis ___ the land of deep forests, endless steppes and proud and dreaded warlords.

[Lifthrasir]

From what I could find so far regarding Denmark, the only titles I could find beside the King one are Jarls (early days) and Counts (from the 13th century). All other titles seem to be from the 17th century.

I need a bit more time for Norway and Sweden

[Jurand of Cracow]

They should be universal for the catholic factions so Counts are better. But it's an English word, how it would be in a kind of lingua franca?

[Lifthrasir]

Norway is bloody complicated again
From my opinion and from what I've found so far, you should keep Jarl for Norway.

Regarding Denmark, you can keep Jarl or, as most of the Danish Count families had German origins, you can use the same as for HRE. I'd personally stick on Jarl for the whole Scandinavia (just for the immersion )

Edit 1: for the King of Norway, it should be Norvegr Konungr if you want to keep the old Norse name (subject to correction as I'm not the best specialist)
Just to be pedantic, there were several old Norse languages depending on regions. It looks like there was a kind of latinized version of one of them at least after the 9-10th century. Unfortunately, I can't find more info about it. That's a shame because it would have fitted perfectly for your stuff. That's basically just the old runic writting "translated" into the latin alphabet

Edit 2: I'm disgressing a bit. For those who are interested by the old Norse, have a look here: http://www.vikingsofbjornstad.com/Ol...onary_E2N.shtm

[j.a.luna]

Ok sship team, after a lot of research and spend a lot of hours i made the IBERIAN PENINSULA PTF for help to Jurand in his minimod and improve this wonderful region( my country)
But before of download the file, i left some notes about PTF as correct descriptions,correct images,suggestions...

FOR THE NEXT RELEASE:

1.Renamed the spanish agents and generals,captains,priest...of kingdom of Castilla y León as "CASTILIANS or castillians"(in spanish CASTELLANO/S) ,not leoneses,the people of these regions were know in the middle age and during the Spanish Empire as castilians, so castilian priest,castilian captain, castilian spy,castilian king...
2.Renamed the Comitatus Portucalense as "REGNUM PORTUGALLENSIS", at the beginnig of the game Portugal is a county and vassalof Kingdom Of Castille and León but only 7 years after it become a Independent Kingdom to the present, so we have to keep in mind the rest of the game and general history(similar to fatimids in mamluks but a lot of years before)
3.If is possible, and nikkosaiz or someone can, make new banners and coat of arms for Aragón, they have castilians coat of arms in the game(is very annoying to see, It is as if the Venetians had the same coat of arms as the Pisans)
4.About name for the catholic spanish or iberian tittles is a little difficult, but in general and as Jurand said"should be universal for the catholic faction" so for castilians and portugueses should be "CONDE of..." and particularly for Aragón should be "BARÓN of...", examples: "Conde of Toledo"(castilians), "Barón of Barcelona"(aragoneses)

NOTES ABOUT THE PTF FILE FOR IBERIAN PENINSULA:

1.The first image or picture below to settlement name is the original picture of the game, the next are better quality for me AND HISTORICALLY CORRECT(Granada fail)
2.VALLADOLID settlement dont have ancillaries and picture, Jurand have to make a new file for it
3.i made new descriptions for all iberian peninsula according to the game and history, not more ridiculous only one mini sentence, is a so little summary about the most important characters of settlement and important historical facts(economy,religious,borders,culture...)
4.i made a possible effects for the gameplay, but it is also a recomendation regarding the characteristics of the settlement for help Jurand minimod, after Jurand have to make new according effects...


SO HERE THE DOWNLOADABLE FILE FOR HELP JURAND PTF:
IBERIAN PENINSULA.7z


If i can i will continue with italians and romans settlements...

IBERIAN SETTLEMENTS:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

León
Santiago de Compostela
Toledo
Barcelona
Sevilla
Córdoba
Granada
Zaragoza
Valladolid
Valencia
Murcia
Pamplona
Burgos
Coimbra
Lisboa
Badajoz
Silves
Palma

NOTE ABOUT CROWN OF SPAIN:The current Crown of Spain and the historical is the union of Crown of Aragón(ARAGONESES) with Crown of Castilla y León(CASTILIANS or CASTELLANOS) and the conquest of all Andalucia (little kingdom of Granada and the rest of muslims settlements in the peninsula)
so The only settlements that not belong to Crown of Spain are portuguese settlements(Coimbra, Lisboa and Silves)only after they were part of Spain(s.XVII) but if you want can include as requisits for Crown of Spain,there you obtain the control of full iberian peninsula...

[j.a.luna]

Norway is bloody complicated again
From my opinion and from what I've found so far, you should keep Jarl for Norway.

Regarding Denmark, you can keep Jarl or, as most of the Danish Count families had German origins, you can use the same as for HRE. I'd personally stick on Jarl for the whole Scandinavia (just for the immersion )

Edit: for the King of Norway, it should be Norvegr Konungr if you want to keep the old Norse name (subject to correction as I'm not the best specialist)
Just to be pedantic, there were several old Norse languages depending on regions. It looks like there was a kind of latinized version of it after the 9-10th century. Unfortunately, I can't find more info about it. That's a shame because it would have fitted perfectly for your stuff.

Of course, for scandinavians regions should be called JARLS

[Lifthrasir]

If we change Silves into a castle, then a city has to become a castle

[Jurand of Cracow]

I'd personally stick on Jarl for the whole Scandinavia
Edit 1: for the King of Norway, it should be Norvegr Konungi

What's genetivus ? Jarl ... Oslo? Jarl ... Skara? Or maybe from the province names? in the other areas they're mixed - some come from the settlements, some from provinces. I think it's ok.
I'm more interested in the name for "King of Scandinavia" - there's such a title for the crowns. However, I think I'd use the Danish name, as in the Union of Kalmar.

[j.a.luna]

If we change Silves into a castle, then a city has to become a castle

mmm why?...i dont understand why we need to change other city for a castle...but maybe palma also could be a wooden castle, it also had a great "alcazaba" or inner castle..but if you dont have many difficults you can continue keeping the same settlement style, it is only a suggestion(due to there is less historical information about Silves in middle age...)

[Lifthrasir]

@ j.a. luna: 1. That's to respect the principle enounced by Fair Prince, the former leader of SSHIP. Basically, the idea is to keep more or less the same proportion between towns and castles.

2. During the medieval period, numerous towns/cities had an inner castle. So they are often referred by that castle without being only and necessarely a castle.

@ JoC, "Jarl of + province name" seems the best option

[j.a.luna]

1. That's to respect the principle enounced by Fair Prince, the former leader of SSHIP. Basically, the idea is to keep more or less the same proportion between towns and castles.

2. During the medieval period, numerous towns/cities had an inner castle. So they are often referred by that castle without being only and necessarely a castle.

Roger!, but for the rest of suggestion are correct!(Damn Lifth)hahaha

[Lifthrasir]

Feel free to continue on that castle/town topic in the General Discussion thread if you want to.

@ JoC, I've also found some records with Baron title for Norway but it was abolished by Haakon V in 1308. I'm not convinced about the Kalmar Union title for the whole Scandinavia crown. Basically, that union didn't take place before 1397, which is quite late for the game. I'll look for a better option

Edit: On a 2nd thought, I'd suggest the title of "King of the Norsemen" for the whole Scandinavia as basically, the word Norse doesn't only refer to Norwegian but to the medieval Scandinavian people in the general meaning (same/similar language, same culture, etc...) even if sometimes more related to Faroese and Islandic people than to Danish and Swedish one (depending on the sources).
So it could be Norðman(s) Konungr but need to look for more "evidence"

[j.a.luna]

Feel free to continue on that castle/town topic in the General Discussion thread if you want to.

No Lifth, i respect this decision of Fair Prince about equal proportion in castles and cities for the gameplay...so Silves will continue being a town
And about my IBERIAN PENINSULA PTF post, what do you think? It has many resources and corrects descriptions,pictures and also issues that should be correct in the future release

[Jurand of Cracow]

I'm not convinced about the Kalmar Union title for the whole Scandinavia crown. Basically, that union didn't take place before 1397, which is quite late for the game.
Edit: On a 2nd thought, I'd suggest the title of "King of the Norsemen" for the whole Scandinavia as basically, the word Norse doesn't only refer to Norwegian but to the medieval Scandinavian people in the general meaning (same/similar language, same culture, etc...)
Norðman(s) Konungr

Ok, this will be useful for the crowns' fix. I'll put it in the info on this crown.

On PTs - look at the names of the provinces. Are they ok? I think that especially Norway need a change. Furhtermore, I understand that I should use Jarl of Westro-Gothia etc. However, should I use "of"? If not, can you propose forms for each of the titles, pls :-)
Oslo ___ Eastern Norway
Bergen ___ Western Norway
Skara ___ Westro-Gothia
Sigtuna ___ Uplandia
Kalmar ___ Smolandia
Visby ___ Gotland
Lund ___ Scania
Roskilde ___ Zealand
Ribe ___ Jutland

Besides, I have got a question: why there're no mines in Uplandia? No copper in the Middle Ages (12-16c.)?

[Lifthrasir]

I'll check the provinces names

It used to be a mine in there but it was removed quite a few versions ago (probably a mistake). I have mentioned it at that time but it has never been corrected and then I forgot about it
Where would be the right place for it?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Copper mines north of Sigtuna - somewhere next to the Dal river: the Falun mine started to work before 1080. I think there're also iron mines in this area.

Further questions:
- why there's a change of name from Uppsala (or Gamla Uppsala) into Sigtuna?
- if there's Smolandia, why there's Gotland? (and not Gotlandia)
- Zealand - was it really written with Z?
- why not to call the Skara province "Götaland" (or Gothia)?
- why not to call the Sigtuna/Uppsala province "Svitjod"?