PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2 (included in 097+)

[Lifthrasir]

Got it

[nikossaiz]

i dont know if is possible ( i bet is not ) is a way to have city names according to what faction you are playing? not that is much difference just for immersion. And i know that i have no word but i would prefer the english names at least next to the native name. A city was called different dippented who you were. all the names as a result were paraphrese of the original / nattive. so english alphabet is somewhat the middle way. I you are not intended to, at least could you keep tracking of the changes for a possible submod??

[Jurand of Cracow]

i dont know if is possible ( i bet is not ) is a way to have city names according to what faction you are playing? not that is much difference just for immersion. And i know that i have no word but i would prefer the english names at least next to the native name. A city was called different dippented who you were. all the names as a result were paraphrese of the original / nattive. so english alphabet is somewhat the middle way. I you are not intended to, at least could you keep tracking of the changes for a possible submod??

Well, I share your feelings about immersion - it's why I've started modding ;-)
Sadly, I don't know about the city names. I believe it's possible, but somebody else should answer. I'm just modding generals' traits and ancillaries. As far as titles are concerned (ancillaries) it'd be possible, but I don't think it's worth so much effort. And already almost 200 settlements is a heavy burden.

[j.a.luna]

I think that Lifth or MWY already changed the names of cities according tolo factions...for example the spanish city of cordoba when it is in muslims hand its name is qurtuba...

[Lifthrasir]

j.a.luna is right. MWY did it. Though, I don't know which file(s) does that

[j.a.luna]

Yes, but i think that was made for important settlements in the game,not for alls, like constantinople,jerusalem,toledo...

[Jurand of Cracow]

Guys,
now another request: the titles for the British islands' PTs. What do you propose historically? Duke of ... in which cases? Preemptively: I'm against using to many of the local names, as you know, eg. concerning Poland and Hungary only Latin names were used. So I don't think very Scottish / Irish names should be used.


And this is proposal for France, given my knowledge on the country and after balancing the numbers according to the rules

[Markmilan]

Guys,
now another request: the titles for the British islands' PTs. What do you propose historically? Duke of ... in which cases? Preemptively: I'm against using to many of the local names, as you know, eg. concerning Poland and Hungary only Latin names were used. So I don't think very Scottish / Irish names should be used.


And this is proposal for France, given my knowledge on the country and after balancing the numbers according to the rules

Hi, nice mod.

Not sure if this helps but playing as England usually edit so I get the following titles;
London - Duke of Lancaster (like this title in my game but would suggest Earl of Arundel or Richmond)
Norwich - Duke of Norfolk
Bristol - Duke of Cornwall (like this title in my game but would suggest Earl of Bristol)
Lincoln - Earl of Warwick (like this title in my game but would suggest Earl of Lincoln)
York - Duke of York
Caernarvon - Prince of Wales
Edinburgh - Duke of Edinburgh
Inverness - Earl of Inverness
Dublin - Duke of Dublin or Lord of Ireland

Rennes - Duke of Brittany
Rouen - Duke of Normandy
Angers - Count of Anjou
Bordeaux - Duke of Aquitaine
Jerusalem - King of Jerusalem

Would also be really cool if had following for faction leader;
All regions in England + Wales controlled = King of England
All regions in England + Wales + Dublin controlled = King of England; & King of Ireland

I think the Kings of England used to call themselves King of England; Ireland & France!!!

Finally, not sure if this is of interest but there is a region mod on MTWII Darthmod where priests get traits which is pretty good;
York = Archbishop of York
London = Archbishop of Canterbury

Just suggestions!

Following is good as well;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earldoms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_and_Ireland

Thanks

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi Markmilan,
Concerning the British islands:
* have a look at this entry - this is going to be the balance for this part of the map. Thanks for the names. If you'd have time and wish to contribute, you could make a check if the Coats of Arms are right in the game - and for the period of 12-14th centuries (sometimes they're older, like in the case of Smolensk: there's a gun in the CoA :-)
* on France - have a look here. I think we would work on this more. Same request concerning CoAs here.
* The Crowns - I've worked on this in the past and I need to come back, right.
* I haven't moded priests and it's unlikely I would. If anything, the princesses deserve more attention.

If you spot any error - please give me know.

cheers
JoC

[Markmilan]

Hi Markmilan,
Concerning the British islands:
* have a look at this entry - this is going to be the balance for this part of the map. Thanks for the names. If you'd have time and wish to contribute, you could make a check if the Coats of Arms are right in the game - and for the period of 12-14th centuries (sometimes they're older, like in the case of Smolensk: there's a gun in the CoA :-)
* on France - have a look here. I think we would work on this more. Same request concerning CoAs here.
* The Crowns - I've worked on this in the past and I need to come back, right.
* I haven't moded priests and it's unlikely I would. If anything, the princesses deserve more attention.

If you spot any error - please give me know.

cheers
JoC

Hi JoC,

Sorry for the slow reply.

Your mod looks really good.

The darthmod MTWII heraldry is excellent (incs priests as well) which may be of interest to you; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...r-DarthMod-1-4

Hope this helps.

Thanks

[j.a.luna]

OK sship team, continue with the next step for PTF submod, this time are the descriptions and effects for differents settlements in the file of export_ancillaries.txt
here the new descriptions and effects for the regions of CUMANIA AND GERMANY(HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE)

NOTE: Jurand, i reuploaded again the file of list of settlements for germany, because in my list were not Prague and Olomoc (coat of arms and ancillaries), i saw in your excel file for 67 provinces...


DOWNLOAD HERE:

REUPLOADEDGERMANY,SCANDINAVIANS,CUMANS.7z

DESCRIPTIONSPTs DESCRIPTIONS CUMANS AND GERMANY.7z

[Jurand of Cracow]

here the new descriptions and effects for the regions of CUMANIA AND GERMANY(HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE

Great, j.a.luna! Thank you, very helpful!
Now you've got here the material for the East European provinces.
With Scandinavia we have to wait for decision what to do with the alphabet issues.

East_Europe_provinces.zip

[Lifthrasir]

JoC, is "culture" related to the education such as universities for example? Same question about "authority"; does it include the administration factor?
I'm asking because some settlements were famous for their univerty which provided clerk, lawers, etc who basically helped the royal administration who itself was able to centralized its authority over the country and even outside for some cases.

[Jurand of Cracow]

JoC, is "culture" related to the education such as universities for example? Same question about "authority"; does it include the administration factor?
I'm asking because some settlements were famous for their univerty which provided clerk, lawers, etc who basically helped the royal administration who itself was able to centralized its authority over the country and even outside for some cases.

I understand your question in 2 ways.
I. it's about education system: is education culture-related.
Yes and no.
There're 4 cultures. Pagans have a different system, not yet modded by me, working somehow, but I haven't analysed it. At some point I may have a go on it.
3 other cultures have the same triggers. This was a difficult choice. For instance, I had a problem with castle library - accessible just for some factions, so I haven't included it. In future it's possible to differenciate between cultures, but there's a precondition: stabilization of the building chain (ie: declaration from the SSHIP team that the buildings will not be changed - otherwise the work would be wasted).
However, the 3 cultures have different effects - as described here. So you may say that education is culture-differentiated.
II.
Should the traditions of education / administration a region / city taken into account in assigning the benefits for the PTs (provincional titles).
Yes, they should. Eg. Paris - culture and authority.
However, keep in mind that the PTs should probably be about whole provinces. So Montpellier, even with it's great university, wouldn't weight much in the province, I think.
Furthermore: balancig, balancing. There should be PT typical for military leaders even if for each French province you'd think about particular features for governors - agriculture, culture.

[Lifthrasir]

The problem I have with your example for France is how to define culture and authority. If you take Orleans for example, it was part of the royal domain. 2 kings were sacred in its cathedrale. It has an university (Law one if I remember correctly). So from my understanding, the title for Orleans should reflects these somehow.

Toulouse also had an university later than Orleans, but for medicine if I remember it correctly as well. So, in that case, that shouldn't have any influence on the title.

See my point

[Jurand of Cracow]

I absolutely see your point. And there're many simplifications, untrue things etc. But we just need to provide a feel for a player. So don't delve into the issues, just tell if there're major problems or the feel is bad or you've got different fees.
Eg. I've assigned +Mining for Clermont. Maybe there're no mines in the Clermot region? Or maybe Reims is not associated with Authority? That would be a major mistake and I'd change it.

Somehow unrelated: Riga. If we take the approach to apply the names as there're in 1st half of the 12 century - as we do with Lubeck: Liubice or Koenigsberg: Twangste, or Nuernberg, then Riga should have a different name (probably Seaborg). However, from the beginning of 13 century it should be Riga indeed.

[Lifthrasir]

I think for such cases as Riga, we just need to consider for how long during the game period, the settlement has each name and only keep the longest one.

Noted about the titles. Btw, many French titles have a different spelling. For instance, Duke title can be found written Duc or Dux. For Count, it can be Conte, Cuens or Quens. It depends how deep you want the immersion into the game

Also, for some regions, there's no specific names or titles. Orleans and Paris regions don't have a specific name as far as I could find so far. No title for Paris or Reims except Bishop. Even considering that many Bishops were nominated by the King instead by the Pope, I'm not sure you want to use it.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I think for such cases as Riga, we just need to consider for how long during the game period, the settlement has each name and only keep the longest one.

Yes. I'd propose the following way forwards:
- keep all the code names of the provinces and the settlements as they are now (changes of these names made mess with the provincial titels; besides - you need to sort out what the code names actually are, as in my PM...)
- any changes for the names will be through the TEXT file, which is actually a mask put on the names. If there'd be a demand to change a name in High or Late era, then it'll be done through such a mask, not a code name.
- let's gather the informations about names in different eras. I'll do it in this thread - entry 4. (I've just checked info about Sigtuna and I think it's right for the Early era, but for High and Late it should be Uppsala; or Lubeck: at the beginning Liubice, but High and Late - Lubeck).
/note: names of the PT (provincial titles) will not be changed unless at some point somebody makes another version of EA file. However it makes any point of doing it before all the titles are done and all the provicne names are fixed, so we may think about it in 5 years time, perhaps)

INoted about the titles. Btw, many French titles have a different spelling. For instance, Duke title can be found written Duc or Dux. For Count, it can be Conte, Cuens or Quens. It depends how deep you want the immersion into the game

Given the use of French by the English and probably by the Germanic nobles, I'd say: let's make it Duc and Conte (or anything like this).

Also, for some regions, there's no specific names or titles. Orleans and Paris regions don't have a specific name as far as I could find so far. No title for Paris or Reims except Bishop. Even considering that many Bishops were nominated by the King instead by the Pope, I'm not sure you want to use it.

Yes, this is a well known problem from elsewhere on the map, eg. Hungary (Archbishop of Esztergom etc.) - actually, I think it's very rare when you've got 1:1 reflection of the real world in the game. The solution: create something resembling history. Ecclesiastical names will NOT be used, but you need to create something what a player may feel plausible (Comes X, in case of Hungary). So use your imagination

[Lifthrasir]

Your stuff, your rules

But yes, that's also my idea. Settlements/regions' names should only be changed via the text file to avoid mistakes and confusion.

Not sure that our English and German fellows will like to use the old French for their respective titles

Noted for the titles. That confirms my original thought. I'll find a solution

[Lifthrasir]

Titles and provinces for France:

1. Roazhon (name in Briton)
French name: Rennes
Province: Bretaigne (Britany)
Title: Duc (Duke)
Description:

2. Angers
Province: Anjou (should be correct but still checking)
Title: Conte de Anjou (Count of Anjou)
Description:

3. Rouen
Province: Normandie (Normandy)
Title: Duc de Normandie (Duke of Normandy)
Description:

4. Poitiers
Province: Poitou, possibly Poictou (to be confirmed)
Title: Conte de Poitiers (Count of Poitiers)
Description:

5. Bordeaux
Province: Aquitaine (became Guyenne from 1229 AD)
Title: Duc de Aquitaine (Duke of Aquitaine) or Duc de Guyenne (Duke of Guyenne) if that option is choosen.
Description:

6. Toulouse
Province: Languedoc (used from 1209 AD, before just called County of Toulouse)
Title: Conte de Toulouse (Count of Toulouse)
Description:

7. Clermont
Province: Auvergne
Title: Conte de Auvergne (Count of Auvergne)
Description:

8. Arles
Province: Provence Ocidental (Western Provence - not accurate but best guess for the game)
Title: Conte de Arles (Count of Arles)
Description:

9. Nizza (Italian name)
French name: Nice
Province: Provence Orïental (Eastern Provence - not accurate but best guess for the game)
Title: Conte de Nice (Count of Nice)
Description:
Note: Originally an Italian Republic based on Genoese model.

10. Lyon
Province: Albon Viennois (Viennese Albon)
Title: Dauphin de Viennois (Viennese Dauphin, same as Count of Albon-Viennois)
Description:

11.Orleans
Province: Orleanais (subject to change)
Title: Conte de Orleans (Count of Orleans)
Description:
Note: Can't find a real province name. Used to be considered as the French capital before Louis VI the Fat. Title of Count used until the end of the 10th century. Title of Duke used from 1344 AD (created by the French King to give it to his youngest son). Nothing found between both.

12. Troyes
Province: Hault/Hausse Champaigne (High Champagne - still need to find the right translation for "High" in old French)
Title: Conte de Champaigne (Count of Champagne)
Description:

13. Reims
Province: Basse Champaigne (Low Champagne)
Title: Conte de Roucy (Count of Roucy)
Description:
Note: the right title for Reims was Archbishop. Roucy was a county very near to Reims.

14. Dijon
Province: Bourgoigne (Burgundy)
Title: Duc de Bourgoigne (Duke of Burgundy)
Description:
Note: do not confuse with the Kingdom of Burgundy which was under HRE rule.

15. Paris
Province: Isle de France (not accurate but best guess for the game)
Title: Conte de Paris (Count of Paris - real title but under Carolingian dynasty - best guess for the game anyway)
Description:

16. Gand
Province: Flandres (Flanders)
Title: Conte de Flandres (Count of Flanders)
Description:

Additional info - Title in old French:

Empreror: Emperere or Emperéres
King: Roy (can be also Reis but might be confusing with Spanish title)
Marquis: Marchis
Baron: Barun (used for general meaning for Nobles rather as a specific title)

I'll update this post with the missing info as soon as I find them
Btw, I guess that I should do the same for the CS faction I also found that Jerusalem should be Hierusalem (as actually named during that period).