PTF: provincial titles’ fix for SSHIP 0.9.2 (included in 097+)

[Eldgrimr]

In the Scandinavian languages, we usually don't use the word 'of', so when it comes to for example 'Jarl of Svealand', it would most often be 'Jarl in Svealand/Jarl í Svíþjóð'.

[Lifthrasir]

Great!!! Exactly what I wanted to know
Now we just need to check if the game can handle the special letters unless people prefer to stick with the English version

[Eldgrimr]

Just tell me if any of the letters don't work, and I'll tell you a game-friendly alternative. By the way, won't Gigantus' minimod fix that problem?

[Lifthrasir]

Not sure it fixes the "nordic" letters. I have to test it

[j.a.luna]

Now we just need to check if the game can handle the special letters unless people prefer to stick with the English version

In the languages, we usually don't use the word 'of', so when it comes to for example 'Jarl of Svealand', it would most often be 'Jarl in Svealand/Jarl í Svíþjóð'.

i prefer Jarl in Svealand, so better in english, i think that for not scandinavian people is better to understand it,
"Jarl í Svíþjóð'." with this only understand Jarl hahahaha, is how if you put arabic letters for us

[Lifthrasir]

That's a good way to learn another language

Thanks for your input. As said, it depends what most of the people prefer
Another option "in between" could be the game-friendly way that Elgrimr has mentionned.

[Lifthrasir]

For Russian factions, it should be Knyaz + province + suffix 'skyi. Your example would be Knyaz Gulaþingslǫg'skyi.

For Muslim factions, until we can find something better, I'd stick as you mentionned

[Eldgrimr]

Here's a simple way to read the unique letters in the names:
Þ/þ = Hard '"th" sound like in "thin"
Ð/ð = Soft "th" sound like in "then"
Ó/ó = "o" sound like in "tool"
Ǫ/ǫ = "o" sound like in "coffee"
Í/í = "e" sound like in "feet"

[Jurand of Cracow]

@ Eldgrimr - thanks, I've put it into the entry. I've got a question. Norðmans Konungr means King of Northmen. However, how would you call "Crown of". Like in Poland I've got Rex Poloniae, but the crown is "Corona Poloniae".
@ Lifth - you're right, -skyi
@ j.a.luna - for the ease of the players I'm going to add in the descriptions "Granted fiefs around X" where X is the name of the settlment in the province. eg. Jarl í Svíþjóð: "Granted fiefs around Sigtuna".

Everybody else: why not to do similar things for other regions? Poland I can do myself, HRR we can do together, France perhaps Lifht, but Hungary, Ruthenia, Lithuania, Cumania also need fresh ideas. Not to mention Muslim factions.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Here's a simple way to read the unique letters in the names:
Þ/þ = Hard '"th" sound like in "thin"
Ð/ð = Soft "th" sound like in "then"
Ó/ó = "o" sound like in "tool"
Ǫ/ǫ = "o" sound like in "coffee"
Í/í = "e" sound like in "feet"

I think for the sake of safe compatibility we need to do it in ASCII.
So how should a transcription of þ and ð look like ? I'd propose the following: t and d

Jarl í Borgartingslog
Jarl í Gulatingslog
Jarl í Vestrgautland
Jarl í Svítjod
Jarl í Smáland
Jarl í Gutland
Jarl í Skáney
Jarl í Sjáland
Jarl í Jótland

[Eldgrimr]

I think for the sake of safe compatibility we need to do it in ASCII.
So how should a transcription of þ and ð look like ? I'd propose the following: t and d

Jarl í Borgartingslog
Jarl í Gulatingslog
Jarl í Vestrgautland
Jarl í Svítjod
Jarl í Smáland
Jarl í Gutland
Jarl í Skáney
Jarl í Sjáland
Jarl í Jótland

I think the best thing to do is this: þ=th and ð=d

[j.a.luna]

Jurand a little question about tittles...for pagans factions like mongols,cumans and lithuanians,what is the name for the tittle? Lord of...? I think that could be ''chieftain of...''

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hungary, somebody mention Magyarország!?

Yes, you may have a look here and here, then meditate a bit, and tell us what do you think and maybe you'd have better ideas. Bear in mind that I'm pretty confident about using Latin in these titles . However, I wonder how the orthodox titles should look like. Maybe you can make a list how the Russians would call the Knyazs in these provinces.
To be sure - the crown for the kings was called in Latin: Corona Hungariae? (we need a short name)

Norðmans Konungr is grammatically incorrect, it's a bit too literal. In my opinion, the best title would be Norrœn konungr (Northern king). Bear in mind that I am not an expert, so if someone knows better Old Norse, then you're welcome to correct me.
I can't seem to find an old Norse word for "crown", probably because we borrowed that word from the Germans.

Good. How then is this borrowed from the Germans word? (to have an option to chose from)

Jurand a little question about tittles...for pagans factions like mongols,cumans and lithuanians,what is the name for the tittle? Lord of...? I think that could be ''chieftain of...''

The problem is there're are only catholic, orthodox and muslim titles in the game. So they have to use one of them, I think they use orthodox ones, but I haven't checked it.
Britanin, Italy, Spain - great! we'll make use of it down the road. I hope you've checked the map accrodingly so that "no province is left behind" ;-)

[Eldgrimr]

Good. How then is this borrowed from the Germans word? (to have an option to chose from)

I can't seem to find any old Swedish/Norwegian/Danish word for it, but it seems to have been borrowed from "krone".

[Svir@c]

Yes, you may have a look here and here, then meditate a bit, and tell us what do you think and maybe you'd have better ideas. Bear in mind that I'm pretty confident about using Latin in these titles . However, I wonder how the orthodox titles should look like. Maybe you can make a list how the Russians would call the Knyazs in these provinces.
To be sure - the crown for the kings was called in Latin: Corona Hungariae? (we need a short name)

So, I saw I read it! There's, really not much to add, you got it! Back then Hungarians ("high" borns-nobility) used Latin language mostly, court, writings etc... shikaka did the great jobb! A title is Corona Hungariae (Szent Korona or Holly Crown), don't know about short one but will look again for this one. Croats and Serbs have Župan (Ispán - Hungarian) in title, but there's also a Knez (Knyaz-Comes-Knyáz) in King reference, and Vojvoda, but came much latter. So, if the, one of, slav faction conquer Hungary think they've been using a Latinised title name or the (everyday average people) translations: Knez-Knyáz (maybe it will stayed the same Knéz or Comes of course), then Župan-Ispán, Vojvoda-Herceg or Kéz (Prince).
Sorry I forgot, an interesting list of titles:

• Nádor (Regni Hungariae palatinus)
• Országbíró (iudex curiae regis) - Judge
• Dalmácia, Horvátország és Szlavónia bánja (regnorum Dalmatiae, Croatiae et Sclavoniae banus) - todays Croatia
• Erdélyi vajda (vayvoda Transsilvanus) - Transilvania
• Temesi ispán (comes Temesiensis) - Temesvar or Timisoara
• Pozsonyi ispán (comes Posoniensis) - Bratislava

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hungarians ("high" borns-nobility) used Latin language mostly, court, writings etc...
A title is Corona Hungariae (Szent Korona or Holly Crown), don't know about short one but will look again for this one.
Croats and Serbs have Župan (Ispán - Hungarian) in title, but there's also a Knez (Knyaz-Comes-Knyáz) in King reference, and Vojvoda, but came much latter. So, if the, one of, slav faction conquer Hungary think they've been using a Latinised title name or the (everyday average people) translations: Knez-Knyáz (maybe it will stayed the same Knéz or Comes of course), then Župan-Ispán, Vojvoda-Herceg or Kéz (Prince).

Crown: Corona Hungariae
PTs for the orthodox: Knyaz, as usual.
PTs for the catholics - Comes, as it is.

Sorry I forgot, an interesting list of titles:

• Nádor (Regni Hungariae palatinus)
• Országbíró (iudex curiae regis) - Judge
• Dalmácia, Horvátország és Szlavónia bánja (regnorum Dalmatiae, Croatiae et Sclavoniae banus) - todays Croatia
• Erdélyi vajda (vayvoda Transsilvanus) - Transilvania
• Temesi ispán (comes Temesiensis) - Temesvar or Timisoara
• Pozsonyi ispán (comes Posoniensis) - Bratislava

Perhaps to be used sometime in future. Pozsony, Temesvar are not on the map, the other are offices. Actually, Hungary is now exceptional to have it's own version of office - Palatinus. But the offices are something different, not provincial titles or crowns.

[Svir@c]

Crown: Corona Hungariae
PTs for the orthodox: Knyaz, as usual.
PTs for the catholics - Comes, as it is.

Perhaps to be used sometime in future. Pozsony, Temesvar are not on the map, the other are offices. Actually, Hungary is now exceptional to have it's own version of office - Palatinus. But the offices are something different, not provincial titles or crowns.

Ok, the names-titles you already have are good I'm just giving you another ones (and the same also) to get the picture or information how to used them!? Like, instead of Temesi ... you can used it for region which you have in game, already (can't be wrong by much and neither un-historical, to much)! And there I wrote about two regions Zagreb and Zadar (Zara) to (ingame), and with title Ban-similar of Vayvoda or Zsupan Choose wisely ...
And Serbia, that's another tematic also, not by much, but similar like Croats, Hungary, Byzys ...

[Jurand of Cracow]

So, I saw I read it! There's, really not much to add, you got it! Back then Hungarians ("high" borns-nobility) used Latin language mostly, court, writings etc... shikaka did the great jobb! A title is Corona Hungariae (Szent Korona or Holly Crown), don't know about short one but will look again for this one. Croats and Serbs have Župan (Ispán - Hungarian) in title, but there's also a Knez (Knyaz-Comes-Knyáz) in King reference, and Vojvoda, but came much latter.

Svir@c,
I wondered whether the provincial names in-game are right: Lower Hungary, Upper Hungary, Pannonian Plain.
What do you think?

[Svir@c]

Svir@c,
I wondered whether the provincial names in-game are right: Lower Hungary, Upper Hungary, Pannonian Plain.
What do you think?

Well, from one point of view I think it's ok but (oh my God here it comes ... ), just maybe-rethink, Szekesfehervar-Balaton or West Hungary, Varad (Nagyvarad in that times)- Middle or East Hungary or Bihar region or maybe 'cause it's close to Temesvar and we don't have it yet/Banat region (not perfect ones for this province but still?!), Gyulafehervar-Erdely (Transilvania comes later on), Esztergom-Upper Hungary (actually this one with Erdely is spot on!), Zagreb - Croatia & Slavonia. Did I missed one, or??? We need Kassa, also ... hehehe ...
Again, choose wisely!

[Eldgrimr]

Norðmans Konungr is grammatically incorrect, it's a bit too literal. In my opinion, the best title would be Norrœn konungr (Northern king). Bear in mind that I am not an expert, so if someone knows better Old Norse, then you're welcome to correct me.
I can't seem to find an old Norse word for "crown", probably because we borrowed that word from the Germans.