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Thread: Westworld (HBO series) (Season 2 Trailer)

  1. #161
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    It's obvious that Ed Harris' character isn't dead, the main proof is shown when Teddy is assisting the share holder by shooting the bottle off the other hosts head. It shows the precision capable by the hosts. When Clementine shoots him in the arm, the shotgun has more of a spread than a pistol so she obviously wasn't aiming to kill. Also, her core programming was the first to be changed to allow her to kill guests. I'm thinking that MiB Ed Harris is a host or maybe an avatar for his consciousness. This would explain his urgency to cut the rope tied to the horse meant to hang him. If he were human then the AI in the horse would not have been able to kill him. The whole reason he was trying to find the center of the maze was to bring true life or death risk to Westworld. So if my avatar theory is correct, then Ford, Arnold, Theresa, etc. are all still alive.
    Last edited by Tiryli; December 05, 2016 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Misspelled word (OCD)

  2. #162

    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    The shut down was triggered by Ford as part of his plan to get rid of the board. However, I don't think it was Ford who reprogrammed Mauve. My feeling was someone else, perhaps the board, were trying to get Mauve out to steal her technology. I think the inference was that the daughter wasn't in Westworld but one of the other themes. The location was written as a sector, not the name of a place, which would be familiar to Mauve.
    My recollection of the timing could be mistaken, but I could have swore the shutdown happened prior to the scene in question. And I don't think the shutdown answers why she suddenly started hearing distorted voices. At any rate, we know that Bernard said her programming was for her to attempt to escape, and "then once reaching the mainland..."


    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    They had bows [Ghost Nation] and very big knives in Westworld. I don't think weapons safety is really an issue. Westworld is set during the Civil war when there were still Samurai in Japan. So it could basically be the wild-west with Samurai. Besides, weapons wise Westworld isn't historically precise. The guns they have are about 20 years ahead of what was common during the civil war. It's almost as if the Civil war is raging in the 1860's while the rest of the park is set in the 1880's.
    The primary means of killing in Westworld is via gunfire, and there is a lot of message board/social media discussion on how it works with the hosts not being able to kill guests. Imagine the discussion if it were about katana duels. You can shoot a blank with a gun, doesn't work the same with a katana. I doubt the Samurai World would be based during the Meiji Restoration. It would probably be based on the Sengoku period. Regardless, I think the only foreshadowing the scene gave us the knowledge that there are other worlds. I'm willing to bet that Samurai World will not be a future setting, other than another brief appearance.

    Edit: I am thinking that there has to be more to the tech that helped Maeve than we've been told. Perhaps he knew of everything and was only playing his part.
    Last edited by ggsimmonds; December 05, 2016 at 09:36 PM.

  3. #163
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Episode 10 was the best television I have seen since probably The Wire. Everything was right.

  4. #164
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiryli View Post
    It's obvious that Ed Harris' character isn't dead, the main proof is shown when Teddy is assisting the share holder by shooting the bottle off the other hosts head. It shows the precision capable by the hosts. When Clementine shoots him in the arm, the shotgun has more of a spread than a pistol so she obviously wasn't aiming to kill. Also, her core programming was the first to be changed to allow her to kill guests. I'm thinking that MiB Ed Harris is a host or maybe an avatar for his consciousness. This would explain his urgency to cut the rope tied to the horse meant to hang him. If he were human then the AI in the horse would not have been able to kill him. The whole reason he was trying to find the center of the maze was to bring true life or death risk to Westworld. So if my avatar theory is correct, then Ford, Arnold, Theresa, etc. are all still alive.
    Avatar? You mean as a remote-controlled drone? I think it would be convoluted in this setting.
    That said, we never saw the mainland, so maybe it is decades into the future.

    I think that the horse wouldn't realistically be factoring such details. Which is another plot-hole, of course. Such an animal could just kick a guest to death, as happens in real life with minimal cause, or could run over him if other stuff caused it to move that way.

    I am more wondering what that massive thing Ford was building in the desert was. If the show was futuristic then it could even be some weapon against the mainland. Well, maybe the hosts have already destroyed the rest of the planet, and re-invented humans as hosts so as to have the same loop of enemies (i doubt it will be something like this, but it is a simple iteration of the theme).
    Last edited by Kyriakos; December 06, 2016 at 06:08 AM.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    My biggest gripe with the finale, is that if Ford was trying all along to undue his mistakes, why did he try so hard for the first 9 episodes to maintain control of the park?
    I think in light of recent events his actions should be re-read as ensuring the transition from human control to host emancipation, rather than maintaining his dominance.


    Now instead of the Game of Thrones season 5 Schrodinger Stannis,

    There's no Schrodinger Stannis: Brienne has declared the outcome of that encounter...... well okay, she may lie, but come on her code of honor couldn't allow that, could it?
    As for the Man in Black, surely the narrative needs him to stay alive as his true identity has only just been explicitly revealed, implying a major major role in the second season, being the majority share-holder, the owner and therefore the new king or whatever and his questionably unresolved feelings for Dolores, his whole quest has been to find a game with real stakes and so forth. There are many exciting and interesting, possible avenues open for the second season including William in Black.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  6. #166
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    While in a season2 things will be even worse without Ed Harris, i still think they should have ended the show in this season, cause Hopkins was virtually all of it in the first place.

    Then again, maybe the next season is set in another of the parks alltogether, without the characters of this season. Again, though, i find it very unlikely it will be of comparable entertainment value as season1 was
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
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  7. #167

    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    I reached the centre of the maze.

    Westworld is actually a more serious take on Sausage Party.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  8. #168
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Quote Originally Posted by ggsimmonds View Post
    My recollection of the timing could be mistaken, but I could have swore the shutdown happened prior to the scene in question. And I don't think the shutdown answers why she suddenly started hearing distorted voices. At any rate, we know that Bernard said her programming was for her to attempt to escape, and "then once reaching the mainland..."
    I think it was the train leaving that triggered the shut down of that section. Too many civilians to kill. Bernard was just reading her diagnostic, he didn't seem to have any knowledge of her awareness before that. I still have the feeling Mauve's story is separate from Ford's.

    The primary means of killing in Westworld is via gunfire, and there is a lot of message board/social media discussion on how it works with the hosts not being able to kill guests. Imagine the discussion if it were about katana duels. You can shoot a blank with a gun, doesn't work the same with a katana. I doubt the Samurai World would be based during the Meiji Restoration. It would probably be based on the Sengoku period. Regardless, I think the only foreshadowing the scene gave us the knowledge that there are other worlds. I'm willing to bet that Samurai World will not be a future setting, other than another brief appearance.
    They've never discussed the rules as far as human/human violence goes. Or if there is some way humans know who is a host, the presumption is they don't since that would spoil immersion, so a human could stab another human. A Katana is no more dangerous in the hands of a host than a bow/knife/dynamite in Westworld. I think you're right SW won't appear, not as a main plot line.

    Edit: I am thinking that there has to be more to the tech that helped Maeve than we've been told. Perhaps he knew of everything and was only playing his part.
    It's inferred that the board were trying to get tech/code out of the park without Ford's knowledge just in case he scrubbed the whole place. Though it may have also been a third party.

  9. #169
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    There was that basement with the Roman and the Medieval stuff. Not the first time we've seen sigbs of an otherworld..

    Oh in case anyone missed it, there was a post-credit scene where Armstice survived.

  10. #170
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Right, saw it now. Rather needless, no? We already had left her in a mostly similar state

    Anyway, at least Harris looks happy about the prospect of himself getting skinned alive.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
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  11. #171

    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    I think it was the train leaving that triggered the shut down of that section. Too many civilians to kill. Bernard was just reading her diagnostic, he didn't seem to have any knowledge of her awareness before that. I still have the feeling Mauve's story is separate from Ford's.
    That is it though, according to the diagnostic she wasn't aware. She was acting exactly as her script told her to. When he was reading her diagnostic he discovered that someone altered her narrative, and this new narrative was what she was doing.

    I do think it could be separate from Ford, and the best guess is that she was the host Theresa had planned on using to smuggle data out of the park. Theresa died beforehand though and Charlotte (think that is her name, not sure) was not aware of Maeve so had the fool writer use a different host (Dolores' father if I'm not mistaken). How exactly Felix fits into this I'm not sure. It is possible that Charlotte was doing both methods because she could not trust idiot script writer (seriously, after the way they met how would she trust him with anything??). It is also possible that Felix represents a as yet unknown 3rd party.

    The implication I got was that Maeve was not aware until she decided to step off the train.

  12. #172

    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    The capability to make your own choice, however biased or prejudiced it may be.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  13. #173
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    I think in light of recent events his actions should be re-read as ensuring the transition from human control to host emancipation, rather than maintaining his dominance.
    I agree I need to rewatch, but why kill Theresa when he could have just stopped the transfer and killed her along with the rest of the board? Why the talk to her about keeping control before killing her? Usually when people give a speech before they kill someone, its to tell them what they really think since theres no reason to lie. But of course that would have revealed the plot too soon. Still it seemed a bit artificial and seemed like a sudden change of heart but maybe there are clues throughout that I completely missed.





    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    There's no Schrodinger Stannis: Brienne has declared the outcome of that encounter...... well okay, she may lie, but come on her code of honor couldn't allow that, could it?
    As for the Man in Black, surely the narrative needs him to stay alive as his true identity has only just been explicitly revealed, implying a major major role in the second season, being the majority share-holder, the owner and therefore the new king or whatever and his questionably unresolved feelings for Dolores, his whole quest has been to find a game with real stakes and so forth. There are many exciting and interesting, possible avenues open for the second season including William in Black.
    More a joke because at the end of season 5 people (I was not a big believer in) thought that because we did not see Brienne complete the blow and have a wide shot of Stannis's head fall that he wasn't dead and perhaps was spared at the last moment. the MIB is completely surrounded by robots and we see him bleed but not die. So not necessarily the same situation but pretty similar. Ed Harris has already signed for another season though.

  14. #174
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    I agree I need to rewatch, but why kill Theresa when he could have just stopped the transfer and killed her along with the rest of the board? Why the talk to her about keeping control before killing her? Usually when people give a speech before they kill someone, its to tell them what they really think since theres no reason to lie. But of course that would have revealed the plot too soon. Still it seemed a bit artificial and seemed like a sudden change of heart but maybe there are clues throughout that I completely missed.
    I don't think he was lying. He was lamenting the downside of consciousness, something that isn't incompatible with his further planning.
    Slaves do live purer lives in a sense, being under the control of others. Many great literary and philosophical figures have explored this theme, while also being proponents of and working for individualism and self-determination: Camus, Dostoevsky Nietzsche, Socrates and so on. I don't think the two ideas are mutually exclusive: not a change of heart at all.

    Also he says "...free here, under my control." Of course that turns out to be entirely accurate as he is the one who initiates and organizes their whole emancipation event under his control they became free. She was standing in the way of that.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  15. #175
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    I see. I will have to rewatch that episode, because thats where my Theory that Ford was trying to help the robots find the maze died. If anything else that scene was very effective in throwing me off the writer's trail, but it seemed like trickery to me. I will say no more on Ford until I rewatch the entire season though. Im sure there are clues dotted throughout. Now that I think about it, that scene with Theresa with the wine was the ultimate you to the people who were in supposed control of the park.

    That is a great idea to explore, I think one of the keys to happiness is not always being in control. Many dont want freedom instead most want a just master.

  16. #176
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Ford had Theresa killed to stop her from stealing the AI programming, plain and simple.

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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiryli View Post
    Ford had Theresa killed to stop her from stealing the AI programming, plain and simple.
    but then he programmed Maeve to liberate herself in a 1% chance that she'd become conscious and stay? That was a huge risk.

  18. #178
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    Things I trust more than American conservatives:

    Drinks from Bill Cosby, Flint Michigan tap water, Plane rides from Al Qaeda, Anything on the menu at Chipotle, Medical procedures from Mengele

  19. #179
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series) (Season 2 Trailer)

    ^At least Ed Harris is in (if even for one ep ).

    Don't like the trailer, though.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  20. #180

    Default Re: Westworld (HBO series)

    I am stoked for Samuraiworld as that kind of martial art battle is 100 times more thrilling versus a six shooter.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GszEMSstYgA
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; September 23, 2017 at 07:10 AM.

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