What faction do you like most and least!? :D And why? :) Only constructive criticism please! Thread rule! :)

[Visarion]

[Draco]

Wow thats a very interesting question so here we go:

My favourite faction historically is Macedon but because of its gameplay .... nope.

My favourite faction because of its gameplay is Kingdom of kush. Because its roster is complete but nothing is extremely powerfull, everyhting that they have can be found in other rosters, but the great Heavy Infantry, combined with a lot of Archer units with a great dmg thx to poison arrows and the Armored Elephants makes them a faction capable to fight against everyone without being absolutely overpowered( Epirote League, Ptolemaic Kingdom, Seleucid Kingdom...).


Well i hate all factions that have ridicolously powerfull units that can be spamed so in a proper Order it would be: (Epirote League, Seleucid Kingdom, Ptolemaic Kingdom, Macedon...) And any other faction not mentioned that have acces to more than 3 tier 3 phalanxes that, in my opinion completely broke the overall balance of the game. I wanted to beleive it was my strat, but the lastest matches I have played show me the Truth: Phalanxes even exhausted dont rout because ridicolously high morale, and its very surpring how the best armie you can get is 20 Units of Tier3-2 Phalanxes with most of the Hellenic factions. Hmm i wouldnt have any trouble with a phalanxe being powerfull if Cavalry charges would deal much more dmg to them when they are catched from behind and/or with infantry, i have seen Agema pikemen killing and routing 2 units at the same time, 1 behind them and the other infront of them. It is so ridicolous, I think Phalanxes have to be powerfull but not like this completely unreal way. But there is hope, Tier 2 phalanxes have a very good performance but can be defeated and tier 1 phalanxes can be as good as tier 2 but you have to take care about how tired are them, I like more to play with this phalanxes than the tier 3 that is an easy pick.

I hope this was constructive, since Im still loving your mod a lot and liking the overall balance, that obviously can be improved .

The moment I love most is when I see someone taking Roman empire and me just imagining my armored elephants routing all that 19 armour stat legionaries....

[Fanest]

Phalanxes can be flanked while armoured elephants can not so i dont like playing against all factions that bring elephants on the field. Barbarians cant do anything against them. If u dont bring pikes or a bunch of heavy spears ur done.

And then there is Roman Empire - on higher funds completely overpowered faction. Nothing beats the cost effectiveness of legions and those armoured archers. On lower funds its possible to spam cheap infantry and beat them by establishing cav superiority and then hammer and anvil them somehow.

I also dont like playing with factions like Parthians, Saka, Scythians etc. cuz in my opinion they are incomplete.

[Draco]

Phalanxes can be flanked while armoured elephants can not so i dont like playing against all factions that bring elephants on the field. Barbarians cant do anything against them. If u dont bring pikes or a bunch of heavy spears ur done.

And then there is Roman Empire - on higher funds completely overpowered faction. Nothing beats the cost effectiveness of legions and those armoured archers. On lower funds its possible to spam cheap infantry and beat them by establishing cav superiority and then hammer and anvil them somehow.

I also dont like playing with factions like Parthians, Saka, Scythians etc. cuz in my opinion they are incomplete.

Armoured elephants can be routed, massive killed and make to panic mode, also are very easy to stop charge and cannot deal with Tier 3 Phalanxes. Hold the Elephant formation with 1 unit and hit the elephant with any shock cavalry or spear infantry you will kill like 4 or 5 elephants if not more. Is very usefull select the rally ability that gives your troops plus 5 morale so the unit is contining the elephants and sourronding units dont rout easily.

What should I do against 6 or 7 phalanxes? pray?

Tier 3 phalanxes when flaked dont loose any moral, I only achieve to rout them when I have killed all other enemie units, or i have killed more than half of the battallion. They hold the line well all the time no matter how tired they are.
It would be so easily balanced by quitting 3 or 4 morale points in all tier 3 phalanx.

[Fanest]

Armoured elephants can be routed, massive killed and make to panic mode, also are very easy to stop charge and cannot deal with Tier 3 Phalanxes.

not all factions have phalanxes

Hold the Elephant formation with 1 unit and hit the elephant with any shock cavalry or spear infantry

few factions have shock cav (of barbarians almost none), while what u said for spear inf doesn't work - tested

What should I do against 6 or 7 phalanxes? pray?

flank and then flank some more, 6 legions will win vs 6 phalaxes any day, shock inf works very well too - those thracians for example

Tier 3 phalanxes when flaked dont loose any moral, I only achieve to rout them when I have killed all other enemie units, or i have killed more than half of the battallion.

yeah u flank them to avoid the pikes not for morale penalty, warcry general helps in this endeavour as well

[Draco]

not all factions have phalanxes

Do you think I dont know?

few factions have shock cav (of barbarians almost none), while what u said for spear inf doesn't work - tested

It works for me thought obviously I dont just attack with 1 spear charge from behind but also ranged support and general support.

flank and then flank some more, 6 legions will win vs 6 phalaxes any day, shock inf works very well too - those thracians for example

5 legions vs 5 Agema can win? What game thought because this one not. I want you fight me Rome vs Epirote League or Macedon, and check if you can defeat my phalanx Line using Legionaries.

Anyway I think this is already offtopic so I apologize for this.

[Fanest]

5 legions vs 5 Agema can win? What game thought because this one not. I want you fight me Rome vs Epirote League or Macedon, and check if you can defeat my phalanx Line using Legionaries.

Anyway I think this is already offtopic so I apologize for this.

You were right, we did the test and legions-the elite ones nor anything else can't win against them, elite pikes are officially OP . Draco will provide replay in some topic - donno which one. I guess that my successes at beating pikelines steamed form the fact that i used alot of cheap infantry beside which additionally bogged them down and surrounded them.

[Apio Claudio]

Romans and Parthia. Best Melee infantry for the romans and Parthia i love because it is a cavalry faction. I remember playing Arena total war I always Played with Scipio, tier Ix Praetorian Cavalry. I really like the swiftness and the charges made by cavalry and the hit and run tactic to devestate the enemy. The romans are enjoyable and my favourite because i m an eternal lover of Roman Empire, and seeing those cohorts holding their line and using testudos just make my day a lot happier !

Ovearall i don't dislike the other factions but i don't really play with them. I like to set for Germania and hold the limes with my numbered legions, i like to invade Britania with the II, IX, XX and XXI legions. Holding my ground in the East fronteir versus parthia. Most of the times i just recal Simon Scarrow's books or Anthony Richard's.

Most people here are aquainted with Cato and Macro, or Macro Valerius Aquila so using the roman Empire and trying mimicing them is a good way to spend some hours. For the people who live studying the roman period, either it be the history or the legal system as i do, i love the fact to be able to relive, in a way, these times .

[popovic]

Carthage.
Why? I was and am fascinated by Hanibal.

Also, in Rome 1 it was one of the rare factions that gave you a bit of a challenge (when played).

[Visarion]

Don't worry... the rule was "constructive criticism" strategy is good...

By the way another awesome preview of HforHavoc, Arverni a pretty decent faction alongside Iceni in the west

Arverni (HforHavoc)

https://youtu.be/1USxVeI0XMo

Iceni (a diplomatic meeting between Jackie Fish and Pixelated Apollo)

https://youtu.be/Jz1Rwt0chbw

[hlidskjalf]

i'm confused how arverni is going to deal with roma in the grand campaign. amassing the free warbands and naked fanatics in a charge against hastati doesn't work at all - i've tried it. the easiest way to deal with romani heavy infantry is in using macedonian tactics: phalanx line and heavy cav rear charges. seems so unhistorical! but i suppose arverni beating marian roma is unhistorical also :p

[Willhelm123]

i'm confused how arverni is going to deal with roma in the grand campaign. amassing the free warbands and naked fanatics in a charge against hastati doesn't work at all - i've tried it. the easiest way to deal with romani heavy infantry is in using macedonian tactics: phalanx line and heavy cav rear charges. seems so unhistorical! but i suppose arverni beating marian roma is unhistorical also :p

It's all in the recruitment and upkeep costs. You'll field 2 maybe 3 free warbands per unit of legionaries.

[Causeless]

It's all in the recruitment and upkeep costs. You'll field 2 maybe 3 free warbands per unit of legionaries.

That doesn't seem altogether accurate from a historical standpoint to me. Barbarian tribes were perhaps disorganized compared to Roman fighters (although even this isn't so true until after the Marian reforms), but I don't think it's entirely accurate for Barbarian warband to be quantity-over-quality.

If anything, it was the Romans who should have cheap unskilled infantry - the Romans were famed for their mass manpower and ability to raise huge armies, and often sacrificed quality for the sake of quantity (such as the army raised for the battle of Cannae).

By the time of the battle of Zama this is less true, definitely, but that's besides the point. The point is that really I don't think it's accurate to portray Barbarian tribes as being unskilled masses of troops. Barbarians considered quality of their weapons and armour to be very important, perhaps moreso than the Romans, and really had warfare and fighting largely ingrained into their culture. If may be true to say that they didn't quite understand the importance of higher-level battle tactics and strategy, but in terms of the quality of their weapons and armour I'd reckon it wouldn't be inaccurate to claim that man-for-man most Barbarian tribes had better individual fighters.

In my opinion it would be more accurate if the Romans had mass relatively weak infantry and Barbarians had less but higher-quality infantry, at least at the very beginning of the campaign. Under skilled commanders such as Scipio the Romans were noted for executing relatively complex maneuvers in the midst of sieges or battle. Being able to control 3 (weaker) infantry instead of 1 (stronger) infantry unit allows more freedom in troop movements and battle tactics, and so I think it'd be fair to claim that it'd be more historically accurate for the Romans to have cheaper to recruit infantry units and be able to recruit 2 or 3 for every Barbarian warband rather than the opposite.

[Petellius]

Well, they are against imperial romans who are much better armoured and drilled to perfection. Against the republic you'll find most barbs units will have the upper hand.

In terms of manpower Rome is almost infinite, Gauls definitely less so, but it is much more about available manpower. Rome has lots of territory to cover and can only have so much manpower used against you. Just influence the other tribes to attack Rome or confederate and then stop them gaining any land in which they could recruit units.

Retreat and starve them of supplies and you'll do fine in the campaign.

[Causeless]

Well, they are against imperial romans who are much better armoured and drilled to perfection. Against the republic you'll find most barbs units will have the upper hand.

In terms of manpower Rome is almost infinite, Gauls definitely less so, but it is much more about available manpower. Rome has lots of territory to cover and can only have so much manpower used against you. Just influence the other tribes to attack Rome or confederate and then stop them gaining any land in which they could recruit units.

Retreat and starve them of supplies and you'll do fine in the campaign.

Definitely post-marian legionaries are better armoured, trained and drilled than the levied armies Rome used beforehand, and most of what I said is mute in regards to post-marian legionaries.

However, hlidskjalf was initially talking about barbarian balance against Hastati which is the only reason I mentioned it.

[TSD]

i'm confused how arverni is going to deal with roma in the grand campaign. amassing the free warbands and naked fanatics in a charge against hastati doesn't work at all - i've tried it. the easiest way to deal with romani heavy infantry is in using macedonian tactics: phalanx line and heavy cav rear charges. seems so unhistorical! but i suppose arverni beating marian roma is unhistorical also :p

I played against republican rome with one of the spanish factions. Rome had 4 triarri, 6 velites, 4 equites, and the rest Princeps. I Had the best of everything (mind you i dont remember what all the units were called, but I was able to pick all elite units with money to spare). 6 skirmishers, 4 spears, 4 cav, rest elite sword infantry.

I literally routed the entire Roman army quickly but the Triarii and my 20 stack ALMOST got routed by the Triarii 20 V 4. They just would not falter despite being completely surrounded and my units eventually started routing 1 by 1. By the time I routed the last Triarii, I was down to 6 units that hadn't routed out of a situation I outnumbered them 20-4.

Obviously many of those units weren't 100% once I had them down to 4 triarii, but At worst I had a few units at 80 troops left.

I know balance goes beyond stack v stack. Obviously, if I wanted factoring in equal money spent, I probably could have fielded another 6 or so units for the amount of money spent on my roman opponent, but I thought it was nuts how hard those triarii fought after the entire rest of the Army was driven from the field, to the point I literally thought at times my entire army was going to route and lose to 4 triarii.

[hlidskjalf]

I played against republican rome with one of the spanish factions. Rome had 4 triarri, 6 velites, 4 equites, and the rest Princeps. I Had the best of everything (mind you i dont remember what all the units were called, but I was able to pick all elite units with money to spare). 6 skirmishers, 4 spears, 4 cav, rest elite sword infantry.

I literally routed the entire Roman army quickly but the Triarii and my 20 stack ALMOST got routed by the Triarii 20 V 4. They just would not falter despite being completely surrounded and my units eventually started routing 1 by 1. By the time I routed the last Triarii, I was down to 6 units that hadn't routed out of a situation I outnumbered them 20-4.

Obviously many of those units weren't 100% once I had them down to 4 triarii, but At worst I had a few units at 80 troops left.

I know balance goes beyond stack v stack. Obviously, if I wanted factoring in equal money spent, I probably could have fielded another 6 or so units for the amount of money spent on my roman opponent, but I thought it was nuts how hard those triarii fought after the entire rest of the Army was driven from the field, to the point I literally thought at times my entire army was going to route and lose to 4 triarii.

i had a similar playtest with agema pikemen. three of them, completely surrounded, i had 20 units attacking them, my units were routing. 20 minutes later the agema routed but i was sure i was going to lose it

[Petellius]

I find fanatics can destroy legionaries in a charge, hit them in the rear when fatigued! As for pikes, I'll look into it

[Visarion]

Like the way people chat here! Keep it up guys!

Btw here is a preview of the mighty Galatian from the one, the only, HforHavocccc!

https://youtu.be/d7t__RqNtms

[Petellius]

It's happened before IRL to be fair