Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The County of Toulouse

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

Thank you very much! I enjoy making the units as historial as possible and I like that you guys appreciate it. I will be tackling the Kingdom of Castile next. I am looking forward to making some sick Santiago Knights as well as some other surprises.

[Filips Augustus]

I will be tackling the Kingdom of Castile next. I am looking forward to making some sick Santiago Knights as well as some other surprises.

Huzzah! More Spanish factions !

[Visarion]

Omg! One if my fav! hope there will be tercio pikemen in!

[FuzFuzFuz]

Omg! One if my fav! hope there will be tercio pikemen in!

Wasn't tercio developed after the timeframe of this mod?

[Visarion]

No... it appeated at the end of the 15th century. Portuguese adopted the Tercos in the 16th century.

Edit. During the 10 year war of Granada (1482-1492)

[FuzFuzFuz]

If it appeared at the end of the 15th century, and when the mod end-date is 1453, then it is over the timeframe...

[Kjertesvein]

If it appeared at the end of the 15th century

I've never heard of the Tercio (pike and shot) as a 15th century phenomenon. The exact date isn't known, but most likely a thing developed somewhere between 1503-1530s part of the Italian Wars.

~Wille

[FuzFuzFuz]

If you read the conversation between me and Visarion, it was him that stated that tercio appear in the end of the 15th cenury.

No... it appeated at the end of the 15th century. Portuguese adopted the Tercos in the 16th century.

Edit. During the 10 year war of Granada (1482-1492)

I included that sentence in my answer to state tercio was developed after this mod's timeframe, in which he responded that the timeframe was being extended to 1500. I would very much like confirmation on the extension, that was my first time hearing of such an extension.

[Visarion]

No the game now ends in 1500

[FuzFuzFuz]

No the game now ends in 1500

Can you find me a quote so I can confirm? I have been here awhile and I wasn't aware such a change was made.

[Visarion]

From what I know they extended the timferame... for instance there is Mathias Corvinus and Ltd. Said he is planning to add Vlad III "the Impaler" Dracula as a character as well.

At The_Fawn_Rescuer:


Btw will the Knight of Toulouse and Prince of Achaea be represented together with his Navaresse Company of Gascony and Navarre against the Sicillian Vassals Catalan Company of Ducgy of Neopatra and Athens?

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

From what I know they extended the timferame... for instance there is Mathias Corvinus and Ltd. Said he is planning to add Vlad III "the Impaler" Dracula as a character as well.

At The_Fawn_Rescuer:


Btw will the Knight of Toulouse and Prince of Achaea be represented together with his Navaresse Company of Gascony and Navarre against the Sicillian Vassals Catalan Company of Ducgy of Neopatra and Athens?

I don't know how detailed we want to get with the free companies. I think it is important to focus on fleshing out the main rosters first. I already have made some generic free-company units that appear on this roster. We'll see.

[Morifea]

The English and Spain wiki have the first use of mass pike formations for the Spaniards in the Granada War.

Their widespread usage began with el gran capitan, Gonzalo Fernandez de Cordoba, following his defeat in the Battle of Seminara 1495.
In the beginning Italian War they made an excellent counter against the French Gendarmes and the swiss Pikemen.

[Visarion]

Still I think they should be in as they were Castille's grandest "innovation", more like re descovering the Macedonian Phalanx but still... it is their identity mark...


Edit 3: Well making Naples playable as well as Sicily and representing their wars from Greece too would silve this issue, if not I guess the role of Naples can be played by some French expeditions in Italy and Greece... that would mean adding scripts... for both France and Sicily proper... so the version of Navaresse and Catalan Companies as mercs or even AoR stands...

Edit 2: @ The_Fawb_Rescuer... guess the Catalans and Navarrabs could be made mercs recruitable in the Balkans, Anatolia, France and Spain... alos Achaea is a faction so maybe having unique, self standibg units to represent the Catalan, Navaresse, Flemish, French, Angevin, Lombard, Florentin, Napolitan, Sicilian, Aragonese, Hospitaller, Toulousan, Venetian Overlords. In my oppinion it should be a playable faction due to the mass invasions and latge diversity of troops centered around the Duchy of Athens and Neopatria and including the Catalan and Navaresse overtaking.


Edit 1: As are the Crossbowmen for Portugal that managed to counter the French Knights...

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Still I think they should be in as they were Castille's grandest "innovation", more like re descovering the Macedonian Phalanx but still... it is their identity mark...

I am at work just now but should be able to check this tonight or sometime relatively soon - but for now, lest I forget, there may have been a Spanish unit of some 600 men established in 1495 with a mix of pikemen, primitive arquebuses and some swordsmen. I believe that the term tercio came into use in the 16th C, in the 1520s or 1530s when such units became more established. It would be pushing it to try to include tercio formations in a mod that ends in 1500, unless that end-date is only provisional. There is also the problem of how would you hold such a mixed unit together and keep it effective in battles with the Attila engine.

Edit 1: Russell F. Weigley puts the start date for the Spanish combined arms units of pikemen, arquebusiers and swordsmen to 1505 in his book The Age of Battles: The Quest for Decisive Warfare from Breitenfeld to Waterloo.

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

The Castillians will have Tier 3 pikemen, halberdiers, and handgunners just like most western factions in this mod. I probably won't call them Tercios, because that name is more of an administrative term that applied to the whole 3000-man pike and shot unit.

But, hey, If you want to form them up in a big square and call it a tercio, that's up to you, the player.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

That's fine. Maybe someone with a knowledge of Spanish could dig up some relevant information.

[Visarion]

About the Navaresse Company I read that they were hired from Gascony and Navarre, four groups in total, two captains from each region. The Gascons consisted of 500 Gascon Knights and 500 Gascon Horse Archers. First were hired by the Count of Beaumont le Roger and Duke of Durazzo for freeing Durazzo. Were organised in Angevin Naples unlike the Catalan Company that was organised in enemy Aragonese Sicily and only after reached the shores of the Adriatic in Durrazzo, near Epirus and Albania. Many more came on their own directly to Albania. The king of France contributed to this mission as well with large sums of money. It was a full success. From there some were hired by Aragon but others by Napolitan Achaea and Florentine Athens against the Catalan Neopatras. They were also in the service of Hospitaller Prime of Toulouse and Master of Achaea, being lent by Naples. In Athens they were hired by a Florentine magnat and aventurer, self proclaimed Lord of Corinth and Duke of Athens and Neopatras most likely accompanied by a mercenary army already. It would be nice to have them as we have the Amulghavars to represent the Catalan Company or at least Horse Archers in the Toulousan roster I guess... the other Free Company units can play their role and some French/Toulousan scripted missions in Italy, Albania, Epirus and the Peloponnese, Attica and Boetia/Thebes as well. Alongside some scripted missions for Aragon and Sicily in Greece and Anatolia I guess, even facing the Serbs in Thessaly. Serbians too had Catalan mercs together with Italian and German ones. These would represent the Navaresse and Catalan Companies, Florentine adventurers in Epirus and Athens and the Palatinate County of Zakynthos and Cephalonia getting involved in the Balkans. Aragon in Corsica and Sardinia too in the detriment of Genoa and Pisa.

Source is Wikipedia still so maybe not that reliable!?

Edit: Alongside some Gascon troops including HA you should also add some Aragonese troops including the Amulghavars or even the Catalan Company of the Sicilian Mercenary Captain, Adventurer and Count of Malta. And some Navaresse of course as the Gascons, Catalans and Navaresse were the most famous and flexible mercs in the area smth like the Italians, Germans, Czech, Cumans and Albanians in the east. Laters Serbs, Silesians and Bulgarians. Well the Swiss too in Central Europe. Aragonese troops representing the support of the King of Aragon against the Pope.

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

added Tier 3 units

[Slytacular]

Very colorful! Nice job!