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  1. #1

    Default 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    https://www.ft.com/content/cbd8f51c-...4-f193b105145e

    Corporate America’s most powerful chief executives are rallying to Apple’s side in its tax battle with the EU, appealing directly to European heads of government to overturn Brussels’ demand for billions of euros from the tech group.

    A group of 185 American CEOs has urged the leaders of 28 EU member states to reverse a European Commission ruling that requires Apple to reimburse Ireland for €13bn in underpaid taxes, calling the attempt a “grievous self-inflicted wound”.
    The push for national governments to intervene — contained in letters sent to leaders by the Business Roundtable on Thursday — marks an escalation in US attacks on the EU, whose decision has already been slammed as “political crap” by Apple boss Tim Cook.
    The corporate chiefs, who are already grappling with uncertainty over the outcome of the presidential election at home, warn the commission’s decision threatens to scare away investment by legitimising abrupt reversals of government policy overseas.

    “In the interest of all countries that respect the rule of law, this decision must not be allowed to stand,” said a letter from the Business Roundtable to German chancellor Angela Merkel seen by the Financial Times.

    Last month, Brussels sparked a transatlantic feud by ordering Dublin to claw back at least €13bn from Apple, arguing the favourable tax arrangements the company devised with Ireland constituted illegal state aid between 2003 and 2014.
    EU member states, acting unanimously, can override the Commission in state aid cases under “exceptional circumstances”. However Europe’s top court has ruled that such interventions must happen before a final decision is taken to recover illegal aid.* This suggests it is too late for member states to overturn the Apple ruling, even if there was support for it. Many EU countries back the €13bn tax penalty; Michel Sapin, France’s finance minister, called the decision “entirely legitimate”.
    Margrethe Vestager, the EU’s competition commissioner, has said Apple should have realised it had a tax deal that was “too good to be true” and has dismissed claims that she acted retrospectively to change Irish law. “The state aid rules apply since 1958,” she said. “It has never been a secret that tax exemptions could be state aid, and that if so, they’d have to be paid back. The only secrets were the [Irish] tax rulings themselves.”
    If upheld, the decision would set a precedent that undermines the legal certainty businesses need to make large-scale investments, the letter to Ms Merkel warns, adding that Brussels’ move is “a grievous self-inflicted wound for the European Union and its citizens”.

    “Absent [a] reversal, other countries outside the EU will interpret the decision as acceptable governmental behaviour and will put all companies with cross-border investments — including EU-headquartered companies — at risk of having their assets expropriated by foreign governments seeking extra revenue or seeking to punish a successful foreign competitor.”

    Related article

    The consequences of the commission’s complaint and the wider implications of its ruling

    There are already signs non-EU countries are following Brussels’ lead. Japan on Friday ordered Apple to pay ¥12bn ($117m) in back taxes after authorities ruled the company was liable for withholding tax on royalties paid from a local subsidiary to an Irish holding company.
    The Business Roundtable is chaired by Doug Oberhelman, chief executive of Caterpillar, and its vice-chairs are the leaders of Xerox, Honeywell, Lockheed Martin and Dow Chemical. Apple’s Mr Cook is not part of the group, but other members include the heads of Walmart, ExxonMobil, AT&T, GE and JPMorgan.
    By wading into the sensitive realm of ties between Brussels and EU member states, the corporate chiefs are following in the footsteps of the Obama administration, which has been sharply critical of the commission and accused it of behaving like a “supranational tax authority”.
    The letter to Ms Merkel says: “I urge you to work with your colleagues to overturn this decision and seek an end to the use of state aid investigations that override the ability of your country and other EU member states to determine and interpret their own tax laws.”

    The group’s message also echoes many of the arguments made by Apple executives in the aftermath of last month’s decision.
    “The ruling threatens to seriously undermine the sovereignty over EU member states over their own tax matters and the rule of law,” Apple finance chief Luca Maestri told reporters on the day the decision was revealed. “The impact of this decision will be devastating for the European economy.”
    Lessons from this:
    1 American big corporate world is a cancer for politics, nothing new here.
    2 Their alleged competitiveness relies on dodging taxes and demanding political favours, they are the definition of anti-free market competition.
    3 For once, the EU actually does what it's there for.
    4 It's quite frankly ridiculous to ask Merkel to overturn something she shouldn't really have any power on.
    5 They still have to explain me their claim that corporations evading taxes somehow benefit citizens, if anything the opposite because citizens will be squeezed even more to compensate the tax revenue lost.

    Finally, I for one welcome the day Europe will be free from Apple's overpriced crap.

    What do you think guys? Should Merkel bow down because oversalaried CEOs know what's best?

    In related news, Deutsche Bank has been slapped a 14 bn Dollars fine just yesterday. A case or a revenge?

  2. #2
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    And at the same time the US files lawsuits against Volkswagen and Deutsche Bank, condemning them to outrageous sums which would destroy them.
    them, seriously.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  3. #3

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    The situation is different, Volkswagen did something criminal, it lied to its costumers and to regulatory institutions around the world, Apple just takes advantages of fiscal loopholes.

  4. #4
    Harith's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Dear Apple and the lot,

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    I pay all my taxes
    So should you.

    Sincerely,
    Everyone else

  5. #5
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    The situation is different, Volkswagen did something criminal, it lied to its costumers and to regulatory institutions around the world, Apple just takes advantages of fiscal loopholes.
    Actually only US standards, which are so strict because the americans protect their automobile industry which is too incompetent to build a Diesel which can compete with german efficiency.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  6. #6

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Actually only US standards, which are so strict because the americans protect their automobile industry which is too incompetent to build a Diesel which can compete with german efficiency.

    Actually, the americans were the first to notice but several other countries have initiated their own investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...rnment_actions. Remember that out of 11 million cars worldwide only 500 000 in the US were recalled.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by Harith View Post
    Dear Apple and the lot,

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    I pay all my taxes
    So should you.

    Sincerely,
    Everyone else
    Seconded. Also, we don't need Apple. The only thing they're good at is pretty design. Everything else can be done by other companies which have you pay less simply for the brand. Or even by Linux...

  8. #8

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Seconded. Also, we don't need Apple. The only thing they're good at is pretty design. Everything else can be done by other companies which have you pay less simply for the brand. Or even by Linux...
    There are a ton of alternatives out there, unfortunately nobody besides Samsung and Apple has a good line-up of products and eco-system. There are a ton of companies that are also just plain bad at business...

  9. #9
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Also, we don't need Apple. The only thing they're good at is pretty design. Everything else can be done by other companies which have you pay less simply for the brand. Or even by Linux...
    If only the sheep (sorry, consumers) knew or cared about it? The pretty designs seem to sell better then Linux, or other companies' cheaper products.

    Edit: Have you seen the latest leaked eyepod version?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Gigantus; September 17, 2016 at 06:30 AM.










  10. #10
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    A Hollywood drama, the 0-emissions-limit was practically impossible to achieve, VW's Clean-Diesel was a threat on the US automobile market which only has a miniscule proportion of diesel cars. GM, Chrysler and Ford couldn't build a economical Diesel engine, so their special interests lobbied against VW. Nato's underlings are just following their overlord.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  11. #11

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Does not change the fact that the company commited a crime, regardless of your political position on the issue.

  12. #12
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Last century they wrecked our economy with bombs, now they use lawsuits.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  13. #13

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    I seem to recall germany was the agressor twice.

  14. #14
    ShockBlast's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    I seem to recall germany was the agressor twice.
    You recall incorrectly, Germany was the aggressor in the WW2 not WW1.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmouth View Post
    If Europeans don't like it then pressure your crumbling union into action to close the loopholes. And then pull your heads from your butts and acknowledge the differences between exploiting loopholes, and crimes.

    Really? Volkswagen and Deutsche Bank are what you come back with in some attempt to draw a parallel? That's awful. Chimp logic.
    There is a huge difference between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law.

    Even if the letter of the law could be partially be interpreted to mean what the corporations want it to mean it doesn`t mean that EU or Germany will bend over if the law was made to do exactly the opposite !
    Last edited by ShockBlast; September 18, 2016 at 03:05 AM.

  15. #15
    StarDreamer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Meh the fine is too small anyways. It should be larger, the CEO's.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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  16. #16

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    I always thought Corporate taxes were stupid. Yes, corporations should pay for any taxes related to the environment, employee-related , and expenditures. What the hell is the point of taxing the profits though? It's just so goddamn dumb. Increase taxes on individuals. 70% income taxes on the highest 0.1% will give you plenty of tax revenue... While retaining a competitive edge on countries that do charge corporate taxes... Idk, I don't know nearly enough on the subject but I do know that corporations pay a mind boggling amount in taxes before it even gets to shareholders. And the dividends given out are also taxed again. Like jesus wtf. And you wonder why everyone has an army of lawyers dedicated to loopholes.

  17. #17

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I always thought Corporate taxes were stupid.
    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Corporations don't pay taxes
    They raise their prices to collect them from you
    Last edited by Infidel144; September 17, 2016 at 10:01 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    If it becomes widely known, likely another electoral backlash.

    I remember predictions that the world is going to end up in regional trading blocs.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  19. #19
    Caelifer_1991's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    The fine should be revised upwards by $1Bn just to tell the American companies that have been shafting E.U. trade and tax laws for 5 decades to go themselves.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; September 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Censor bypassing and unnecessary image.

  20. #20
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: 185 CEOs ask Merkel to drop Apple's tax evasion case

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    https://www.ft.com/content/cbd8f51c-...4-f193b105145e



    Lessons from this:
    1 American big corporate world is a cancer for politics, nothing new here.
    2 Their alleged competitiveness relies on dodging taxes and demanding political favours, they are the definition of anti-free market competition.
    3 For once, the EU actually does what it's there for.
    4 It's quite frankly ridiculous to ask Merkel to overturn something she shouldn't really have any power on.
    5 They still have to explain me their claim that corporations evading taxes somehow benefit citizens, if anything the opposite because citizens will be squeezed even more to compensate the tax revenue lost.

    Finally, I for one welcome the day Europe will be free from Apple's overpriced crap.

    What do you think guys? Should Merkel bow down because oversalaried CEOs know what's best?

    In related news, Deutsche Bank has been slapped a 14 bn Dollars fine just yesterday. A case or a revenge?

    Since we are at that, can 185 ministers and MPs ask Merkel to drop Greece's debt? Oh, wait. We did ask that.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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