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  1. #1
    Dirty Chai's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Battle Rules, First Draft

    Voila. Mostly done. Probably playable now. Just needs some polishing. The rules are there though.

    Below this line is how the the rules will be structured (in a thread separate from the main rules, because of size):



    Pre-Battle Planning Phase
    This phase represents the night before battle or a brief meeting before entering the field of combat. Troops have not yet been placed onto the chosen field of engagement, and the commanders usually only have a rudimentary understanding of the battlefield.

    When it is decided that a battle will take place and both players or groups of players have agreed that a battle will take place (not agreeing would usually mean one of the armies has to retreat, usually the one refusing to fight when the other is agreeing to fight), a GM will eventually send both of the armies’ leading players descriptions of the battlefield before them. The GM will PM both sides their own “view” of the situation and what they reasonably know of the terrain and enemy before battle is committed.

    Advice for GMs:
    A way to decide terrain is to use google maps terrain mode and find a rough approximation of where you think the battle will take place, and base the terrain you draw in Roll20 off of that. Take the maneuvering of armies into account; such as if one army says it takes a defensive position along a river and if the opposing army agrees to attack them in that state, then that should be on the battlemap under the appropriate parameters.
    Do not send images, however, to the players when you give them their descriptions of the battlefield; keep it textual to simulate their limited knowledge (like scouts telling them about the battlefield). Lastly, try to keep copies of your sent PMs in your sent folder if you can so that you have personal documentation of what you’ve sent to the players so that you can keep all factual information consistent.
    Weather: Roll a d20. 16 or higher is rain (or snow if it's in the first or last days of the RL week/IC year). Roll another d20. 12 or higher is light wind, 16 or higher is strong wind. +4 to that if there is rain (or snow). If there is wind, roll direction on another d20: 1-5 up, 6-10 left, 11-15 right, 16-20 down. See Conditions section for effects.

    Each commander should then share this information with his allied/sub commanders by preferably forwarding the PM from the GM to those players. From this point, those players can then begin planning how they wish to approach the battle, tactically and strategically.

    At this point, either army can still choose to retreat. This is the last moment at which an army can retreat from prospective battle without taking risk of casualties, ie. without entering the battle system.
    Deployment Phase
    This phase represents the armies deploying their troops into their starting formations for battle. The army that is considered to have chosen the field of battle, ie the army that arrived first, deploys first. The army that deploys second can see the first army’s deployment (within reason of what they can see across the field), and a third army can see the first and second army’s deployment as well (and so forth).

    Armies are divided into “battaile” as groupings of units. Each “battaile” can be as small as you like, but the max unit cap for each “battaile” is 15 units, which equates to around 3000 men usually. Thus, larger armies will generally have more battailes than smaller armies. These battailes can be shaped however the commander likes, but the units composed in them should connect up with one another or be within close range (so no battailes mixing up between each other). Each unit takes up one square. Every map square is made to be about 1000 square feet with 100ft in distance between the center of each square.

    Do not separate characters from their retinue troops unless it is impossible to fit them all into 1 battaile or unless those characters give express permission to allow other characters to command part of their retinue troops.

    Any player with troops in the battle can choose to lead his troops personally as long as one his relevant characters is present (so that lord, a son of that lord, etc) and physically able to lead them (not bedridden etc.). He must compose his troops into one battaile. If he has more troops than what can reasonably be composed into one battaile grouping, he must either leave his extra units out of the battlefield entirely or give command over them to another character (who can be the same player) in another battaile formation.

    From there, an overall commander, the commander-in-chief, is selected from amongst the characters leading troops. This is invariably either the highest ranking faction character in charge of the army or a character appointed by that highest ranking character to lead in his or her stead. An example of this is Margaret of Anjou appointing Beaufort to lead her army in battle.

    The commander-in-chief is the overall leader of the army and can, and should by all accounts, reasonably expect in-character for his sub-commanders to follow his in-character commands.

    Any players not wishing to control their character commanders in battle or for whatever reason simply cannot be present, can give the control over those character commanders over to whichever player controls the commander-in-chief character. That player then must control those extra commander characters as if they were other players, obeying the initiative order and the messenger system.
    Initiative Rolling Phase
    Commanders now roll initiative to determine the turn order of their controlled battailes;
    Initiative for each commander/battaile is 1d20 + the Battle trait.. (we should really diversify battle-related traits)

    So if Commander A rolls a 20, Commander B rolls a 3, Commander C rolls a 7, and Commander D rolls 13, the turn order in each round is: Commander A, Commander D, Commander C, Commander B. In this way, you may have a battaile on one side move first, then followed by a battaile on another side, or any random order.
    Rounds & Turns
    The battle is conducted now in a series of rounds; a whole round consists of 1 turn for each present battaile, the order of which is determined by the initiative rolls done above. So if there are 11 battailes total on the battlefield, then there will be 11 turns in each round.

    There is no limit to rounds in a battle; the battle will end when one side involved achieves some form of victory from the list of possible victory conditions (see the victory conditions section).

    In each round, the battle moderator will PM each player in turn order (that is, each bataille) with an image of the map (or what they can see of it anyway) depicting the situation at the start of their turn. The mod will describe to the player, in practical and brief language, what the player’s character sees and should tell them how many complex actions they have available. For new players to this battle system, the battle moderator should quote the “Basic and Complex Actions” section for that player.

    From here, given an image of the map situation during his/her turn, the bataille commander’s player will then issue orders to the units, conforming to the rules and only taking as many complex actions as they are allowed. The best way to do this is by simple, clear commands, with an copied and edited version of the image the mod gave them, drawing lines for movement orders.
    Basic and Complex Actions
    In each turn, a battaile commander has a set of actions available to him. He can give 1 Basic Action command for each of his units in his battaile, and he has a minimum pool of 3 Complex Actions that he can command on each of his turns, modified by +1 Complex Action for every Battle +1 trait. That Battle trait also modifies chances of success for each Complex Action.

    Basic Actions do not require rolls and they include:
    - Moving a unit straight forward or straight backwards within its movement range.
    - Ordering a unit to attack/charge a unit it is facing within its remaining movement range.
    - Ordering a unit to disengage from combat with another unit, taking the Disengage penalty (see Standard Melee Combat).

    Complex Actions require rolls for success and they include:
    - Moving a unit left or right or diagonally within its movement range. D20, success being on 10 or higher. Failure means that the unit keeps moving in the same direction as before (so marching straight forward before means it will continue to just move straight forward).
    - Turning a unit on its axis to face a different direction. D20, success being on 10 or higher. Failure means that the unit does not change its facing direction. Units however do automatically turn to face the closest enemy if that enemy is within movement range.
    - Ordering a unit into a formation. D20, success being on 10 or higher plus the formation’s difficulty level. Failure means that the unit does not change formation. See the Formations section.
    - Ordering a unit to attack in formation. D20, success being on 10 or higher plus the formation’s difficulty level. Failure means that the unit attacks normally (disorganized).
    - Ordering a unit to orderly retreat from combat without routing. D20, success being on a 14 or higher. Failure means that the unit takes the Disengage penalty as normal.
    - Attempting to pull a Shattered Unit back into the fight within the commander’s remaining movement range. D20, success being on a 14 or higher.
    See the Abilities section for unique Complex Actions for specific units.

    Complex Actions are free and always successful for the commander’s personal unit.
    Standard Melee Combat
    Melee combat will engage once, in any turn, a player commands their unit to attack (in any way) against another unit. The combat will be considered to have occurred on that turn, but the defending unit gets their combat role in that turn as well.

    D10 vs D10 for two units; the highest result, after modifiers, wins that combat.

    For loser’s casualties: Take the difference between the two rolls (ex. a 3 if the results were 6 and 9) and multiply that by another d10 roll and then double that (ex. 3xd10x2). The winner’s casualties are equal to the loser’s casualties divided by the difference between the two resulting rolls (ex. [3xd10x2]/3).
    Morale Shocks, Shattering & Routing
    Morale shocks are rolled when units might shatter and flee from combat. They are rolled as D20 rolls, with different thresholds for success or failure below. The Morale stat applies to the results of any such rolls, so a stat of 2 gives a +2 to the roll result.

    Morale shocks occur under 3 circumstances:

    1. The first trigger is when a unit loses a melee combat roll by a margin of at least 5 on the opposing D10 rolls (counting modifiers). Getting a 1-5 on a D20 is a shatter.
    2. The second trigger is when a unit loses 100 men or more in any single melee combat they lose (if you lose 100+ men but you won the combat, no roll of this type). Getting 1-8 on a d20 is a shatter.
    3. The third trigger is whenever a unit in any circumstance goes down to 50% health (ie, 150 out of 300 men), then down to 30%, and then down to 15%. At 50%, getting a 1-10 on a d20 is a shatter. At 30%, getting a 1-15 is a shatter and instant rout (cannot be saved). At 15%, getting a 1-17 is an instant rout (cannot be saved).


    When shattered, a unit flees from the battlefield until it reaches the edge of the map and routs off of it. When shattered, a unit can be saved by a Morale Save via a Complex Action taken by the Commander if the Commander is within movement range of that shattered unit. Routed units cannot be saved. For more, see the Complex Actions section.
    Combat Disengage Penalties
    Disengaging or otherwise pulling out from a melee combat (including shattering and routing from combat) inflicts Disengage penalty. To avoid the penalty, see Orderly Retreat in the Complex Actions section.

    This penalty is represented by another combat roll in which the disengaging unit does not get to do damage to the other unit but its casualties done by that other unit are halved.
    Archery
    Longbowmen have a max range (on a sunny, windless day) of 1400ft. Beyond that, their arrows will do no damage. Between 1400 ft and 700 ft, arrow volleys do long range damage and between 100ft and 600ft away the arrow volleys do deadly damage.

    Long Range - 700ft to 1400ft distance
    D10. Reduce the result by the defender’s armor rating. Multiply that by another d10 roll. Then divide that by 2. The formula is ([D10 -AR]xD10)/2. Divide that result by 3 and that defending unit takes that much casualties. If he has other units on his flanks or otherwise within 100ft of him, up to two of those units also take the same amount of damage. IE, divide that damage between three units, or only give ⅓ damage to one unit if it is alone.

    Deadly Range - 100ft to 600ft distance
    Formula is [D10 -AR]xD10. Target one unit. Divide the result by 3 between 3 units (2 units within 100ft of the first unit) or do ⅓ damage to one unit if it is alone.

    Longbow units have a total of 6 volleys available to each of them. Once they have used all 6 volleys, that unit is out of arrows.
    Gunpowder
    There are two unit types which make use of gunpowder in this era: handgunners and gunners.
    Both types are unusable in snow and rain.
    Handgunners Handgunners cannot shoot over other units as it must have a clear line of sight to its target.
    Its range is 100ft to 400ft being Deadly Range and 500ft to 700ft being Potshot Range.

    Potshot Range - 500ft to 700ft distance
    D10. Reduce by armor rating of the target. Multiply by D10. Divide by another D10. Casualties caused. (Ex. Rolled a 10, target has 2 AR, rolled 10 then a 5. Casualties caused are 16. Could’ve caused 80 casualties if the last roll was only a 1, however.)

    Deadly Range - 100ft to 400ft distance
    D10 x D10. Ignore armor ratings. That’s it. If you get 2 10/10’s, that’s 100 casualties. Get p’wned.

    Handgunners gets 4 shots total. One a unit has shot 4 times, it’s out of ammo for the battle.

    Cannons Cannons in battle have a range of 700ft. With that range, targeting a unit uses the following formula: D10 x5. Then divide by a D10. Ignore armor ratings. Result is casualties caused.

    Cannons however are most specialized in barraging defensive enemy positions.
    Field Fortifications are forthcoming/WIP..

    A Cannon unit can fire once per turn.
    Stats, Traits, Abilities, and Conditions
    Stats are measures of ability, strength, and quality that all unit types have. Traits are constant features that certain units permanently hold. Abilities are special actions that certain units can use, usually as Complex Actions. Conditions are temporary status effects that come into being through situational contexts in combat, such as effects from the environment or being surrounded by enemy units.

    Stats
    - Melee: This stat reflects how well this unit performs in melee combat. Each Melee +1 gives a +1 to their melee combat rolls.
    - Armor: Reflects how well armored the unit is and how well it deflects Arrows and distant Handguns. Each Armor +1 gives a -1 to Archery rolls and Potshot Handgunner rolls against that unit.
    - Morale: Each Morale +1 gives a +1 to Moral Shocks and Morale Saves for that unit.
    - Movement Range: Reflects how much space a unit can move in each turn. Ever 100ft is one square on the Roll20 (or otherwise) battle map that it can move.

    Traits
    wip

    Abilities
    wip

    Conditions
    - Rain/Snow: All units move slower, reducing movement range by 100ft. Archers reduce their total range by 300 ft, and their subsequent deadly range down by 200ft. Handgunners and cannons are unusable in this battle.
    - Wind: Light wind running the opposite direction (against) your longbowmen reduces their range by 300ft and their deadly range by 200ft. Light wind running sideways from your longbowmen (left or right) reduces range by 20 ft and deadly range by 100ft. Light wind running in the same direction as your longbows’ arrows increases deadly range by 200ft. Heavy wind does all the same as this, but with an additional 100ft tacked on to all effects.
    - High ground: If the unit is on a significant slope facing a lower enemy, it gets a +4 to all melee combat rolls.
    - River crossing: If a unit is guarding a river shore from another unit, it gets a +4 to all melee combat rolls.
    - Forest/Wetland: Mounted units move at infantry speed in forests, thickets, and wetlands, and infantry units defending against cavalry in these terrains get +2 to melee rolls. Furthermore, units hiding in forest get -2 to Archery rolls against them.
    - Flanked/Surrounded: For every extra side after the first side (including diagonally) that a unit is being attacked on, it gets a -2 to all rolls. Ex. attacked on 3 sides gives that unit a -4 modifier.
    - Shattered: Unit is broken formation and running from the battlefield. Can take a morale save from a commander. Otherwise every turn the unit takes a 12/20 chance of routing. If the unit reaches the edge of the battlefield before saving, it routs anyway.
    - Routed: Unit is routing off of the battlefield or is already gone. Cannot be saved and will not turn around to return to battle.
    Victory Conditions
    Any single one of these will grant a faction victory in the battle
    Wip (stuff like “rout 60% of the enemy while only losing 25% of your own” etc)

    Formations
    Ordering a unit into a formation is a Complex Action. 10/20 on a D20 is the base difficulty level for success; A formation’s difficulty level adds on to this, so a formation with a level of 2 makes the success threshold 12/20.

    Here is a list of formations that can be used:
    - Cavalry Wedge: Grants a combat bonus of +4 for the first combat roll after charging in. Difficulty level 2.
    - Infantry Wedge: Grants a +6 combat modifier against Shieldwall/Spearwall formations. Reduces speed by 200ft. Difficulty level 3.
    - Shieldwall/Spearwall: Grants a +4 combat modifier. Reduces speed by 200ft. Difficulty level 3.
    - Schiltron: Nullifies the negative effects of being surrounded or flanked. Difficulty level 4.

  2. #2
    Dirty Chai's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    Unit Stats

    English Militia Footmen: Melee 0, Armor 0, Morale 0, 300ft
    Militia Longbows: Melee 0, Armor 0, Morale 0, 300ft
    Heavy Footmen: Melee +1, Armor +1, Morale +1, 300ft
    Men-at-Arms: Melee +2, Armor +2, Morale +2, 300ft (400ft when mounted)
    Yeomen Longbows: Melee +1, Armor 0, Morale +1, 300ft
    Knights: Melee +3, Armor +3, Morale +3, 300ft (400ft when mounted)
    Foreign Gallowglasses: Melee +3, Armor +1, Morale +2, 300ft
    Border Reivers; Melee +2, Armor +1, Morale +2, 300ft (500ft when mounted)
    Gens d'Armes; Melee +4, Armor +4, Morale +4, 400ft mounted (assume dism. Knights stats when dismounted)
    Coutiliers; Melee +3, Armor +3, Morale +3, 400ft mounted (assume dism. Men-at-Arms stats when dismounted)
    Switzers; Melee +4, Armor +4, Morale +4, 300ft
    Handgunners; Melee +1, Armor 0, Morale +1, 300ft
    Cannons; Melee 0, Armor 0, Morale 0, 0ft (stationary)
    Last edited by Dirty Chai; September 16, 2016 at 03:54 PM.

  3. #3
    Dirty Chai's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    Requesting that the playerbase give suggestions for victory conditions in battle. Feel free to suggest things and critique, but ATM we could specifically use some suggestions on victory conditions.

  4. #4
    The Mad Skylord's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    How about killing the enemy commander in chief triggers a roll to see if the enemy withdraws or not.

    Looks good overall. I would suggest adding a couple extra foreign units, Irish Kerns, who have a ranged attack and a melee attack. Also Irish Hobelars, who have a really long range when mounted but get good stats for foot combat.

  5. #5
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    I already suggested Hobelars. The English had their own version that went out of style by the time of Richard II who replaced them with Cheshire Archers which were first formed by Edward III. BF didn't agree to the addition

    Also Kerns come with the Gallowglasses, according to what BF told me. I think i read that they seem to have been used by the English-Irish Lords of Ireland as a base infantry so they can't be counted as foreign.

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    Last edited by Lucius Malfoy; September 16, 2016 at 04:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    oh my god. RIP moderators

  7. #7
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    Not as hard as you think it is. This is pretty much gonna be DnD battles on Roll 20 from what BF has told me. More visual and everything.

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  8. #8
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    I think it'd be best if we stuck to fairly simple and straightforward victory conditions, at least for our first battle at Towton. Something like:

    -Kill the supreme commander (Ed IV for York, Marge d'Anjou/Somerset for Lancaster in the context of Towton) of the other side, like Skylord suggests
    AND/OR
    -Get 25% of the other side to die/rout

    Just to keep the battle from dragging on and on, and especially considering that the battles of annihilation in the Middle Ages where one side fought to the absolute last man were the exception, not the rule. I've read that more Lancastrians died in the rout than from actual fighting at the historical Towton, for example.
    Last edited by Barry Goldwater; September 16, 2016 at 05:16 PM. Reason: phrasing, getting your own supreme commander killed shouldn't be a victory condition lol

  9. #9

    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    Battles will take hours, if not days (and probably more like days) to resolve based upon this.

  10. #10
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    Again, not entirely true as we are thinking of having the mods control the units and have the players just send orders. That way we don't have to worry about time zone differences. This should be faster than what we have in GoT, but we will have to see how it goes with Towton being the testing grounds.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    I wish you the best of luck

  12. #12

    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    This battle system has an incredible depth to it, it's so fleshed and intuitive. We would be able to think tactically much easier and we can even react in RL to whatever the enemy does. For the first time we would actually be able to flank, profit from a flank, disengage, etc... Very excited with this, is very well-done and I'm eager to try it with Towton. I think we could have Ferrybridge first, to test how this works; thus, we would be stepping on solid ground when we're finally fighting at Towton.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    It's a testament to how the GoT battle rules are

  14. #14
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    We can try Ferrysbridge tomorrow then if you feel the system is ready, BF.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    It's a testament to how the GoT battle rules are
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucius Malfoy View Post
    We can try Ferrysbridge tomorrow then if you feel the system is ready, BF.

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    Do we know how many troops did both sides field there? Aproximate compostion and such?

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  16. #16
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    I could do research tonight when I get home from work

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  17. #17
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    It probably won't be a big encounter, more of a skirmish at best.

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  18. #18
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    Ferrybridge appears to have occurred in three stages: first Warwick drove away a Lancastrian contingent of mostly archers that was holding the bridge, then a day later Clifford got the jump on Warwick's men while they were repairing said bridge and inflicted some losses (~3000 according to Wiki, but that seems weirdly excessive for what was a largely irrelevant skirmish) on them before fleeing. Finally Fauconberg led a Yorkist cavalry detachment in pursuit, ran Clifford's men down in sight of the main Lancastrian army and managed to get away, all of which implies that both he and Clifford commanded small, highly mobile forces. I'd suggest something along the lines of 5-6000 Yorkists divided into two groups, a larger one (35-4500 I'd say) at the bridge itself and a 1-1500 or so strong all-cavalry group upstream, vs. a Lancastrian force similarly split in two: a larger, stationary force with many if not most being archers (smaller than its Yorkist counterpart, maybe 15-3000 men) holding the bridge, and a smaller cavalry-heavy force matching its Yorkist counterpart in numbers that's en route to the bridge.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    War of the Roses


    Here are numbers I got for both sides from this site here.

    Yorkists - 36,000
    Lancastrians - 40,000

  20. #20
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Battle Rules, First Draft

    That's Towton and I already have the armies set up.

    We are talking about Ferrysbridge.
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