A better understanding of Hellenic units

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A better understanding of Hellenic units, their origin, purpose and evolution especially for youtubers and their great channels, it started as a request from H for Havoc and I wrote this for his great efforts to show us previews, battle tactics etc.

Screening troops:


Peltasts of Macedon were trained recruits, proffesional soldiers first fighting as javelinmen, then as thureophoroi and thorakitai and like only after 10-15 years and combat experience they would become elites, and the elites were phalangites but like hypaspists of Seleucids and agema of Ptolemaics peltasts of Macedon were versatille, multiporposed units, ready to fight in any style and adapt to any enemy and also knew the strenghts and weaknesses of any enemy formation and type of unit. Other phalangites were the levy that were necessary to fill the gaps and fight in the left flank, in the right one usually the elite were placed. Still some Greeks, former hoplites managed to understand and embrace the phalanx fighting style much faster like the Megalopolitans forming the bronze shields and the Amphipolitans forming the white ones. Macedonians had a permanent elite contingent of phalangites as well, the agema, fighting only in the phalanx formation. Other Greeks even managed to overpass the Macedonians, the inventors of the phalanx formation. The Spartan pikemen were so well trained that they were never cought offguard, being able to change dirrections rapidly, facing flank or rear attacks and not depending so much on screening troops, they changed from the front lines to the back as well because in the front stood the best and most experienced. So the phalanx was adopted by the other factions too even if the traditional style was fighting as hoplites. The dawnfall of Macedon was that they were reluctant to change and didn't integrate in the army the new ideas and tactics of the age, as Romans did by copying the fighting style of the Iberian scutari for instance. They were proud Macedonians sticking to tradition and their arrogance was both their strongpoint and their doom. Corinthians on the other hand managed to adapt superbly their infantry to face the Romans, fighting as Thorakitai but had poor cavalry and no support, Boetians or Thebans can't remember, managed to defeat the invading Celts using their own fighting style and inventing the thureos, a copy of the oval Celtic shield, Dacians used falxmen to cut the shields, helmets and unprotected limbs of the Romans, inflicting great casualties and forcing the Romans to innovate and invent the lorica segmentata and so on. The tradition of fighting to the death of the Spartans and Thebans continued with the Corinthians and again Spartans during the Roman invasion. Corinth was demolished entirely by the Romans as a revenge and lesson to all the other Greeks. Seleucids erected a monument to the Spartans that have faced the Romans and died, similar to the deed of Phillip of Macedon who erected a monument for the 300 Thebans of the sacred band that died against the phalangites and cavalry regiments lead by Alexander even if the Athenians fled and we all know of the Spartans and Thermopylae.

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Peltasts, short history


The name peltasts was initially the name given by a Athenian general hired by the Thracians and then coming back, to a new type of hoplites that he had invented... lighter, swifter and having the pelte Thracian shield instead of haplon shield. He wanted to make hoplites more versatile and combined traditional Greek style with Thracian. Some even used javelins but there were native Thracian merc javelinmen as well also with the pelte and later Athenians and other Greeks started to call javelinmen of Thracian descent or Greeks adopting the style peltasts, especialy because elsewhere then Macedon they were replaced by a new innovation, the Thureophoroi, the name coming from the thureos shield, inspired by the Celtic migrations. Of course the Thureophoroi were upgrated to Thorakitai from thorax armor and later Machairophoroi from the fact that they renounced spears in favour of a Roman style of fighting, pila and short sword, the name comes from machaira or knife.

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The origin of peltasts:


Alexander the Great and Persian conquests


During Alexander especially, peltasts became skirmishers protecting phalanx units, the pezhetairoi or infantry companions and ashetairoi that were a rank above the pezhetairoi while also helping hetairoi or mounted companions and thessalian cavalry. Hetairoi came from the mountain clans while phalangites came from the cities. They also had Odrysian and Paeonian cavalry. Together with peltasts stood the agrianians or mountain clans that climbed the walls of the fortress of Lycia, if I'm not mistaken and Sogdian mountain dwellings, helped by their pickaxes. Practically Macedonians, like Romans only had phalangites and cavalry while Romans had legionaries and both had to use auxilary and foederati troops, allied and mercs or AoR and mercs. Hoplites of the Greek world were put to use and became the hyspaspists, also used to protect the flanks of the phalangites like peltasts but also as reserve and to protect the rear of phalangites. Later they also fought as swordsmen in India and together with phalanx infantry mounted horses in Sogdiana, they adapted to the enemies they faced. As swordsmen they went without armor as shock troops or armored if the enemy had lots of archers. At first Alexander's troops renounced heavy armor in favor of linothorax for the fact that the troops were swifter and the armors were easier to carry, because of logistics. Linothorax was reinforced on the way with chain and scale mail and even lamellar pieces were added. When facing the Parthians however they had to reintroduce the use of plate mail. Even in India they had troubles because of the arrows and javelins used in guerilla tactics. Alexander himself was wounded thus by a javelin thrown from a elephant tower if I remember. Successors or diadochoi also started to use elephants and alongside javelinmen placed archers and even phalangites. Only in India pezhetairoi changed their name to argyraspides or silver shields. Seleucids and Pontians also used the terms chalkaspides or bronze shields for the new recruits, as you can imagine the ranks had to be filled. Seleucids even used the term chrysaspides or golden shields for picked bronze shields phalangites.



Macedon and their isolation from the rest of Macedonians of Persia, India and Egypt that started to call themselves Hellenes


Macedonians remained behind and kept the old terms of peltasts, they even supported the Megalopolitans against Spartans and learned them to fight as phalangites to defeat the obsolete Spartan hoplites. Later Spartans also reformed their hoplites and fielded phalanx troops. Macedonians also gave the name leukaspides or white shields, for the inhabitants of a city that I can't remember it's name, that were learned to fight in this style like the Megalopolitans and also used the term chalkaspides or bronze shields for both Megalopolitans and new recruits from vassal states and their own cities including the Megalopolitans that chose to fight for them instead of being stationed as garrisons against Sparta. Macedon had garrisons in both Athens and Sparta as to protect them from the invading Ptolemaics only that Ptolemaics were in fact invited as liberators. Peltasts were the elites, the veterans, sons of the veterans and also retinue, guard troops.


Use of peltasts in Egypt, I found no sources, I only read about the agema. The fact is that they were squires, the ones from Seleucia: hypaspists and later silver shields or argyraspides that split 5,000 fighting as hypaspists, thorakitai and thureophoroi and 5,000 as phalangites from the initial 10,000 elite phalangites of both Babylon and Antioch, the ones from Macedon preserved their original name of peltasts meaning foreigner, auxiliary, screening troops fighting first as javelinmen and spearmen and only later as phalangites and the ones from Egypt were known as agema or the elite. The term agema was given by the Seleucids to their elite cataphract cavalry and Macedonians to their permanent elite phalangites.


To be honest I didn't knew the Ptolemaics did this as well, I only knew they had land owners and settlers receiving land, klerouchai owners of large estates but not citizens, they preserved the citizenship of the city they came from, katoikoi were immigrants that were paid for their military services. Agema was used instead of the Macedonian peltasts to reffer to the elite, while hypaspists from elite became supporting troops. in Macedon hypaspists became diplomats. At first they were squires but then adapted in aiding not only the cavalry companions but the foot ones as well and started to innovate as they gained experience in battle and facing many enemies fighting in many styles, they did their best to defend both the cav and phalanx against all kind of troops, they were prepared for everything and took the weapons and armor in accordance to the enemies they faced, as I said they even mounted horses. Argyraspides of Seleucia later split in two, the phalangites and the argyraspides hypaspists or thureophoroi and thorakitai, adapting the new innovation, the thureos shield and because of the Parthians started to use heavier armor, plate, scale and chain mail. Argyraspides, the original contingent was send by both Seleucids and Baktrians in the most dangerous missions in India to get killed because they were expensive and dangerous, as to their military prowess and the fact that they grew wiser.


Evolution of hypaspists in Baktria, Indo-Greeks and Indo-Baktrians. Dawnfall of Baktria and Indo-Baktrians by a people who spoke a strange language similar to both Greek and English.


In Baktria they fought many times as machairophoroi and it seems they even embraced the traditional fighting style of the Persians by wieldind greataxes because the enemies they faced were much faster and used ambush and guerilla warfare, the Indians and the Indo-Greeks and Indo-Scythians. Also Baktrians had to rely on heavily armored cataphracts capable in both ranged and melee fighting against the Parthians that settled in Parthia and Ecbatana, Indo-Parthians that settled in Arachosia and Gedrosia and later in Taxila of the Indo-Scythians, Indo-Saka or Indo-Scythians that settled Sistan or Sakastan, Gedrosia, Taxila and later Sagala, Barygaza, Pataliputra, part of the Saka that raided Sogdiana, Margiana, Parthia and Ecbatana fighting both Parthians and Baktrians, Asioi that settled in Bucephala near Taxila and Sagala, Yuezhi that demolished the capital of Ferghana, Eschate and finally Tocharians that managed to subdue Baktria, Sogdiana, Hindu-Kush and gave birth to the Kushan Empire and the Kushans that ruled Marakanda, Baktra, Alexandria Eschate or what remained of it, Alexandria on the Oxus, Alexandria in Arachosia, the fortress of Alexandria in the Caucasus, Taxila, Sagala, Alexandria Bucephala, Alexandria on the Indus and it's 10,000 Thracian veterans, Patala and even the Alexandrian port at the Indian Ocean, cities former ruled by Indo-Greek, Seleucid, Mauryan, Baktrian and Indo-Baktrian rulers. They also ruled the original urban areas of the Saka and Tocharians, Khotan and Kashgar by the Saka and Kucha and Karashar or Agni of the Tocharians from the Tarim Basin, a large and fertile oasis in a desert land, part of the Silk Route, rather advanced cities where both Saka and Tocharian was spoken and even Greek and Pali language of the Indians ingluding their script. Later the Chinese emperor became vassal over these lands conquering them together with the Xiongnu in the 1st century BC. It seems Saka also dwelled in Yarkant. The Khushans were in my oppinion the suzerains of the nomad Yuezhi and dwelled in the cities of Korla or Loulan, Kucha, Karasahr, Gumo and Turfan in the Xinjiang region part of the Xinjian-Uyghur Autonomous Region of China, the easternmost point of the Indo-Europeans, speaking, strangely enough, Centum not Satem, in the heart of China. Saka spoke a Satem language, like most of the easterners, similar to Sogdian. Ferghana was integrated in the empire of Alexander after he and the Kearezmian shah defeated the Saka. Yuezhi will destroy the capital of Ferghana and take control of the region but briefly. They will continue their journey of destruction south. Yuezhi were enemies of the Xiongnu who became masters of the Tarim Basin and pushed the ones who rebeled westwards in the lands of the Baktrians. Koucha also known as Qiuci, Kuxan, Kuchan, Gushan, Gu-zar or Kushan was probably the home of the elite of the Yuezhi or Yuet Chi, namely the Kushans and in their city state had 80,000 inhabitants and 20,000 soldiers. There were also other people named similar to the Kushans, the Gushi, some city dwellers of Turpan, a rich oasis on the Silk Road and other nomads of the mountanous regions. Karasahr or Agnidesa inhabited by Yanki, Anxi, Agni, Arsi or Arshi was the capital of a state on the silk route with nine walled cities, very good for agriculture and the people had horses, camels, sheep and cattle. It was renowned for it's horses similar to Ferghana or Dayuan. The people believed in Sakya or Buddha. Agni means in Indo-European "fire" and it makes me think about the Asioi, Asii, Osii, Asini or Aseni. Gumo was also known as Aksu meaning "white water" in Turkic and it was a smaller kingdom with about 5,000 soldiers and so was Korla or Loulan, where the mummies of Loulan were found. The last two were vassals to the Agni most likely. The Han ruler forced them to gather 30,000 men and fight against Khotan, the most important city of the Saka. The Han dinasty had serious problems with the people of the Tarim Basin and had to decapitate many royal heads to get a grip of the region. Later the Hephtalites emerged. Still Tocharians preserved the Greek traditions as did the Parthians and spoke both Baktrian and Greek, also they used the Greek alphabet. Honestly I feal sorry that this part of the map can not be representet properly! How was it? Mlechchas: Yavana-Greeks, Ghandaras-Ghandari, Pahlavas-Parthians, Sakas or Shakas-Scythians, Kambojas-Asioi, Tusharas-Tocharians, Hunas-Hephtalites. Baktria was later known as Tukhara, Tokhara or Tokharistan. I could not identify Paradas, Bahlikas or Rishikas but I guess Bahlikas were native Bactrians from Balkh, the Rishikas were probably Yuezhi also known as Rouezhi while Paradas might come from Parni but others locate them in the Tarim Basin as well. The Kambojas could also be the Kangju or Sogdians while the Yuezhi the Yanki of Agni or could be similar term, maybe the civilized part. The city of Khotan is very interesting because it had Saka, Ghandara and Greek influences and it seems Yuezhi were situated outside the Tarim Basin towards China and that they were merchants that took jade, carpets and silk from Khotan and traded with the Chinese until the Xiongnu, possibly related to the Huns attacked them and they were forced to flee to Ferghana. From there they forced the Saka to flee south. The Hellenic influence of Khotan may be due to immigrants from Ferghana and from Taxila that was attacked by the Asioi. That would explain the Ghandara influence as well. Like the Ghandari of Taxila, Sagala, Patala and the Kushans of Gu-zar or Kucha they were Buddhists. In Khotan, Greek items even related to the Ptolemies of Egypt seem to have been found. Looks like the other Saka were also heavily influenced by the Hellenes. Parthians, Saka and Tocharians took the lifestyle and culture of Greeks, Persians and Indians, especially Ghandari. This is not a wonder as Arachosia, Ghandara, Sogdiana and Bactria were heavily influenced by the Greeks and many immigrants came in these rich lands even before Alexander during the hegemony of the Persians. Baktrians too, managed to integrate or create new kingdoms in the already Hellenised states of India, even reaching and devastating Pataliputra.



The origin of the obscure peltasts in the classical age, the inventor was Iphikrates of Athens that also faught as a mercenary captain and later general for the Odrysian king. Athenians and even Spartans gave their services to all kind of factions, including the Persians and their 10,000 Greeks of Anatolia fighting as hoplites


Peltasts were initially Thracians and Athenians that fought for Athens. During Iphikrates the army was reformed, the first step towards the phalanx. He was a general and tactician that was in the use of both the Odrysians and Athenians and even fought against Macedonians. He reformed the Thracians and then came back in Athens. He integrated Thracians fighting as lighter hoplites, with linothorax instead of plate mail and longer spears, they were thus swifter, also the pelte shield of Thracian origin replaced the hoplon of the hoplites. The pelte was not that heavy and smaller permitting the new Iphikratean hoplites to make more actions with their spears and even carry javelins. Athenians were taught to fight in this style as well. Iphikrates, of Athenian origin also used Thracian fighting in their traditional style, javelinmen and Scythian foot archers in warships. The Athenians started to call the Thracians fighting in their traditional style, peltasts. Macedonians stole the concept and gave even longer spears to the Iphikratean hoplites of the Athenians, the lances of the cavalry, the xyston. They also made use of Thracian javelinmen and also Hellenic guards to screen the phalanx, similar to hypaspists only that they kept their reform name, peltasts, the name given by Iphikrates. Lysimachus also used peltasts and as his empire comprised the Odrysian Kingdom, Bithynia, Pergamum and Pontus some of the offshoots preserved the imperial troops. Both Lysimachus and it's former vassals used a lot of mercenaries, especially from Thrace and Anatolia. Later the successors of Lysimachus integrated the Galatians. Lysimachus also briefly controlled the lesser lands of Cappadocia, Lydia, Mysia, Pisidia, Caria, Lycia, Cilicia but after his death some fled to Seleucus and Antiochus while others to the Ptolemies and even to Bithynia or the Perso-Hellenic usurpers of Pontus. Those that remained, formed a pirate state. Hannibal after defeated retreated first in the lands of the Seleucids where he became the naval commander and then to Bithynians when the Romans asked that he was given to them in exchange for peace.



Origin of the thureophoroi, thorakitai, machairophoroi, cretans, tarentines and other units


Afterwards the thureos shield was invented as a copy to the Celtic shield. From the Iphikratean hoplitai, with the invention of the thureos, the thureophoroi were born. Also cavalry copied the methods of the Thracians and started using javelins and a round shield, smaller than the hoplon but larger than the pelte, I forgot it's name and of course took the name of the new invented shield. Thureophoroi and later thorakitai were the reformed Greek soldiers combining the Greek, Thracian and Celtic styles, spear, sword, thureos shield and javelins. Later they renounced the spears for swords and adopted the Roman gladius inspired, again I forgot the name of the sword, anyway straight not curved as machaira or kopis and even shields resembling the Roman ones.

Philopeomen a mercenary captain of the Achean League started using Cretan archers and also inventing the Tarentine cavalry while he was fighting for one of the Cretan cities, there were many civil wars there, as a copy to the original Tarentines that used javelins. He later became the ruler of Sparta.

Corinthians and Athenians started to innovate as well, using machairophoroi, a mix of thureophoroi and thorakitai and the Roman legionaries. The concept was taken by the Pergamese as well and later by the Seleucids and Ptolemaics.

Bithynians combined on their own, not influenced by Iphikrates or other Hellens, Greek and Thracian fighting styles and later invited the Galatian to settle their lands, Phrygia. of course Galatians fled to the Pergamese, Seleucids and Ptolemaics and so did the Thracians of the former Lysimachian Empire.

Pontus used Persian and Hellenic styles and later also the Scythohellenic innovations of the Thracian lead Cimmerian Bosporus but as the majority of the successor states also fielded Galatians and Greek mercenaries and even Thracians. Mithridates could levy troops from Taurians, Scythians, Cimmerian Bosporans, Maeotians, Colchians and even Cappadocians if I'm not wrong and was allied to many Greek city states and leagues, the Iazyges and the Armenians. He occupied Cappadocia, Bithynia, Paphlagonia. The Pontians aided the Cimmerian Bosporans against the Scythians allied to Taurians and Roxolani and the Greek cities besieged by the Romans. Iazyges were allies but found no evidence they were integrated in the army of Mithridates to be frank.

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Evolution of hypaspists in Baktria, Indo-Greeks and Indo-Baktrians. Dawnfall of Baktria and Indo-Baktrians by a people who spoke a strange language similar to both Greek and English.


In Baktria they fought many times as machairophoroi and it seems they even embraced the traditional fighting style of the Persians by wieldind greataxes because the enemies they faced were much faster and used ambush and guerilla warfare, the Indians and the Indo-Greeks and Indo-Scythians. Also Baktrians had to rely on heavily armored cataphracts capable in both ranged and melee fighting against the Parthians that settled in Parthia and Ecbatana, Indo-Parthians that settled in Arachosia and Gedrosia and later in Taxila of the Indo-Scythians, Indo-Saka or Indo-Scythians that settled Sistan or Sakastan, Gedrosia, Taxila and later Sagala, Barygaza, Pataliputra, part of the Saka that raided Sogdiana, Margiana, Parthia and Ecbatana fighting both Parthians and Baktrians, Asioi that settled in Bucephala near Taxila and Sagala, Yuezhi that demolished the capital of Ferghana, Eschate and finally Tocharians that managed to subdue Baktria, Sogdiana, Hindu-Kush and gave birth to the Kushan Empire and the Kushans that ruled Marakanda, Baktra, Alexandria Eschate or what remained of it, Alexandria on the Oxus, Alexandria in Arachosia, the fortress of Alexandria in the Caucasus, Taxila, Sagala, Alexandria Bucephala, Alexandria on the Indus and it's 10,000 Thracian veterans, Patala and even the Alexandrian port at the Indian Ocean, cities former ruled by Indo-Greek, Seleucid, Mauryan, Baktrian and Indo-Baktrian rulers. They also ruled the original urban areas of the Saka and Tocharians, Khotan and Kashgar by the Saka and Kucha and Karashar or Agni of the Tocharians from the Tarim Basin, a large and fertile oasis in a desert land, part of the Silk Route, rather advanced cities where both Saka and Tocharian was spoken and even Greek and Pali language of the Indians ingluding their script. Later the Chinese emperor became vassal over these lands conquering them together with the Xiongnu in the 1st century BC. It seems Saka also dwelled in Yarkant. The Khushans were in my oppinion the suzerains of the nomad Yuezhi and dwelled in the cities of Korla or Loulan, Kucha, Karasahr, Gumo and Turfan in the Xinjiang region part of the Xinjian-Uyghur Autonomous Region of China, the easternmost point of the Indo-Europeans, speaking, strangely enough, Centum not Satem, in the heart of China. Saka spoke a Satem language, like most of the easterners, similar to Sogdian. Ferghana was integrated in the empire of Alexander after he and the Kearezmian shah defeated the Saka. Yuezhi will destroy the capital of Ferghana and take control of the region but briefly. They will continue their journey of destruction south. Yuezhi were enemies of the Xiongnu who became masters of the Tarim Basin and pushed the ones who rebeled westwards in the lands of the Baktrians. Koucha also known as Qiuci, Kuxan, Kuchan, Gushan, Gu-zar or Kushan was probably the home of the elite of the Yuezhi or Yuet Chi, namely the Kushans and in their city state had 80,000 inhabitants and 20,000 soldiers. There were also other people named similar to the Kushans, the Gushi, some city dwellers of Turpan, a rich oasis on the Silk Road and other nomads of the mountanous regions. Karasahr or Agnidesa inhabited by Yanki, Anxi, Agni, Arsi or Arshi was the capital of a state on the silk route with nine walled cities, very good for agriculture and the people had horses, camels, sheep and cattle. It was renowned for it's horses similar to Ferghana or Dayuan. The people believed in Sakya or Buddha. Agni means in Indo-European "fire" and it makes me think about the Asioi, Asii, Osii, Asini or Aseni. Gumo was also known as Aksu meaning "white water" in Turkic and it was a smaller kingdom with about 5,000 soldiers and so was Korla or Loulan, where the mummies of Loulan were found. The last two were vassals to the Agni most likely. The Han ruler forced them to gather 30,000 men and fight against Khotan, the most important city of the Saka. The Han dinasty had serious problems with the people of the Tarim Basin and had to decapitate many royal heads to get a grip of the region. Later the Hephtalites emerged. Still Tocharians preserved the Greek traditions as did the Parthians and spoke both Baktrian and Greek, also they used the Greek alphabet. Honestly I feal sorry that this part of the map can not be representet properly! How was it? Mlechchas: Yavana-Greeks, Ghandaras-Ghandari, Pahlavas-Parthians, Sakas or Shakas-Scythians, Kambojas-Asioi, Tusharas-Tocharians, Hunas-Hephtalites. Baktria was later known as Tukhara, Tokhara or Tokharistan. I could not identify Paradas, Bahlikas or Rishikas but I guess Bahlikas were native Bactrians from Balkh, the Rishikas were probably Yuezhi also known as Rouezhi while Paradas might come from Parni but others locate them in the Tarim Basin as well. The Kambojas could also be the Kangju or Sogdians while the Yuezhi the Yanki of Agni or could be similar term, maybe the civilized part. The city of Khotan is very interesting because it had Saka, Ghandara and Greek influences and it seems Yuezhi were situated outside the Tarim Basin towards China and that they were merchants that took jade, carpets and silk from Khotan and traded with the Chinese until the Xiongnu, possibly related to the Huns attacked them and they were forced to flee to Ferghana. From there they forced the Saka to flee south. The Hellenic influence of Khotan may be due to immigrants from Ferghana and from Taxila that was attacked by the Asioi. That would explain the Ghandara influence as well. Like the Ghandari of Taxila, Sagala, Patala and the Kushans of Gu-zar or Kucha they were Buddhists. In Khotan, Greek items even related to the Ptolemies of Egypt seem to have been found. Looks like the other Saka were also heavily influenced by the Hellenes. Parthians, Saka and Tocharians took the lifestyle and culture of Greeks, Persians and Indians, especially Ghandari. This is not a wonder as Arachosia, Ghandara, Sogdiana and Bactria were heavily influenced by the Greeks and many immigrants came in these rich lands even before Alexander during the hegemony of the Persians. Baktrians too, managed to integrate or create new kingdoms in the already Hellenised states of India, even reaching and devastating Pataliputra.

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Edited this post with referances about Bactria, Indo-Greeks and Indo-Bactrians and the invaders: Parthians, Indo-Parthians, Saka or Indo-Scythians, Indo-Saka, Asioi, Yuezhi, Tocharians, Kushans, Xiongnu, Wusun, Han dinasty, Hephtalites. I was wondering if the Saka and Yuezhi will be represented somehow. Thank you! Bactrians indeed had some peculiar shields, I read that a unit with that kind of shields will be added, that's nice but even nicer would be a in depth story in that area. Had a book but I can't remember the name, a very good source, I'll check.

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Special troops:


In Bosporus the Thraco-Greek hegemony combined the armored hoplite with the poorly equiped but skilled Scythian archer and thus invented the Scytho-Hellenic archers used by Pontians as well. Other innovations were of course the armored Galatians, adopting Greek gear and discipline.

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I wrote that the macedonian phalangites took the xyston of the cavalry but I meant sarissa lance, about 4 meters long.

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Later Sarmatian kontophoroi were used by the Romans as far as Great Britain and some say they inspired the knights of Avallon. Anyway the medieval knights were their copy. Romans used especially Iazyges, enemies of the Dacians and later Alans when facing the allies of the Dacians during Decebal, the Roxolani. Prior to that both Iazyges and Roxolani were used by Mithridates of Pontus who managed to unite Greeks once more against the Romans and also had a powerfull ally protecting his rear, Tigranes of Armenia, the new ruler of Seleucid Antioch. Mithritades also gave armor to the Galatians and made them elite infantrymen, placing them as far as Boporus as garrisons, because they were oathsworn similar to the later Varangian guard of the Byzantines and Kievans. The Seleucids after losing Babylon to the Parthians and establishing to Antioch had to take immediate measures and invited settlers from Thrace, Galatia, Thessaly, Macedon, Lydia to form new infantry contingents and cavalry as well, thus Galatians became the royal infantry guards instead of Macedonians, new invited Macedonians were enrolled as phalangites, recruits from Achaea and Aetolia became thureophoroi, thorakitai and later machairophoroi and even Arabs and Thracians were taught to fight in this style while Ptolemaics had to give more armor to the native Egyptians, the Machimoi, and insert them in phalangites corps, Judeans as screening troops, recruit Lybians as cavalrymen. Seleucids after losing the Medians, their best cataphracts to the Parthians started to use Thessalians from Larissa, 1,000 men and Lydians to form the Hellenic cataphracts. Anatolia and Egypt became a melting pot of cultures and ethnicities as it was the main theatre of war, the playground of the successors of Alexander.

[Visarion]

Cavalry contingents:



Oh yes the cataphract lancers seem to have been invented by the Greeks of Seleucia or Baktria by combining their lancers with the armored horses of the javelin throwing Persians. It is likely that Parthians, Sassanids and Sarmatians took the idea from the Hellenes but with their traditional lamellar armor instead of platemail thorax. That and the armored horse archers of Saka gave birth to the Parthian lancers/horse archers. Both Parthians and Sarmatians were cavalrymen that had bows, mace or that club, how is it called, later, the spatha sword and that specific axe of the Saka and Scythians. Of course nomads made the lance even longer and from the xyston, the kontos emerged. Sarmatians used lancers to countercharge the Scythian horse archers and became hegemons. Seleucids also kept the traditional Median and Persian and even Parthian horse archers and javelinmen and also used Cappadocian, Scytho-Sarmatian, Parthian, Median and Nissean cataphracts. The Sarmatians were used by Pontians actually and Colchians too. Scythians during Seleucids fought as horse archers. Also the Tarentines emerged as a copy to the original inhabitants of Italy. Seleucids had lonchophoroi, xystophoroi, kontophoroi, both armored and unarmored horses and ranged cavalry, javelinmen and horse archers. A distinct contingent was the agema. Thracians were also kept as prodromoi or scouts using javelins and the ones with lance were named sarissophoroi from the pike of the phalangites, the sarissa.

[Petellius]

very happy this thread exists, thank you for the wealth of accurate information Hopefully AE's units will now be better understood.

[Visarion]

very happy this thread exists, thank you for the wealth of accurate information Hopefully AE's units will now be better understood.

Hmmm I thought I answered your post... strange... Thank you! I am a big fan! Honestly I think this is one of the most accurate mods ever without the ever present "assumptions", exagerations, over-nationalism and biasing.

[Petellius]

Hmmm I thought I answered your post... strange... Thank you! I am a big fan! Honestly I think this is one of the most accurate mods ever without the ever present "assumptions", exagerations, over-nationalism and biasing.

We made sure to stick straight to the facts and rule out anything we weren't extremely sure about.

[Visarion]

Gortyna Faction Preview is out on youtube from Havoc! Cool preview! They look very Spartan like! HforHavoc sorry! He really did cause Havoc!

https://youtu.be/7lb5DM2F3EI

[Visarion]

Armenia from HforHavoc! Nice preview!

https://youtu.be/qK9fOrfoW4U

[Visarion]

Gr8 news guys! The seleucids r here!

https://youtu.be/HuvIQzRYGts

[Visarion]

4 all the guys that asked 4 parthia

https://youtu.be/387UeITfLBE

[Visarion]

They are here! My ancestors are here!!!

https://youtu.be/AFh8zQ5fZwc

[Thyra13]

They are here! My ancestors are here!!!

https://youtu.be/AFh8zQ5fZwc

Are you from Hellas friend?

[Visarion]

Are you from Hellas friend?

No but I've searched my family past based on local legends and found out that my family from my father's side came from Macedon to Crimea and Odessa where Filiki Eteria was born like about 250 years ago and then tried to came back in 1821 but remained in Romania, Dobrudja because only Morea was freed. They may be the remnants of the Sacred Band of Alexandros Ypsilantis.

More details about my personal research:

"From Moskopolis and Ioanina Greeks and Aromanians indeed migrated mainly in Italy, Austria and Romania but still they were involved in the efforts of reestablishing the Byzantine Empire by publishing books and manifestos and offering money and moral support to the resistance. Many Aromanians moved in Macedon, Thessaly and Epirus from Albania after Moskopolis, a center of Greek culture of great importance was utterly destroyed by the Ottomans and possibly some joined the first wave of migration into Russia but the majority started herding animals in mountainous areas and migrated only later in Romania. Even so they were involved in every uprising from Rumelia, in Ioanina, in Thessaloniki, in Adrianopolis. They were forced to leave their city lifestyle and from that point onward their culture was preserved orally. The same happened to the Byzantines that spoke Greek. Ottomans tried to destroy their civilization and culture and burned their centers of knowledge from many important cities, one of this being Ioanina. Also Larissa and Thessaloniki were transformed into military headquarters of Rumelia. Thessaloniki was populated with Jews from Spain that fled the Inquisition and was the headquarters of the Janissary, with the role of protecting Rumelia. After all were assassinated in 1826 Larissa became the seat of power regarding military might in Rumelia. I must search if that was the center of the Sipahi as the Ottoman military strategy relied mostly on a powerful cavalry charge with the role of massive psychological impact. In Russia the first wave of migration was from Sinope and Trapezous, Pontos area. People from here came especially for financial reasons as Crimea if freed was a new market. The next waves were from Pella, Thessaloniki, Larissa, Adrianopolis, Saranda Eklisis, Constantinopolis, Mani, Cyprus. These people came for another reason, the dream of creating a new home, a new center of Hellenic knowledge and culture and of course for freedom. Even so all were promised important privileges, no taxes and military support against the warlike Tartars inhabiting the peninsula. Few but influential and learned people came for a third reason, a secret reason, forming an army of devout members with the intent of freeing all the Byzantines and Hellenizing once more the lands lost to the Turks in the 15th century. No info about Athina and Smyrna but Athina was of little importance having only 8,000 citizens in comparison to Moskopolis that had 60,000 before being destroyed. The merchants of Smyrna had a lot of privileges, similar to those of Epirus before the uprising so they probably stayed neutral. Destinations of the incoming people of Greek, Bulgarian, Russian, Ukrainian and German origin especially: the new or developed cities of Odessa, Sevastopol, Kherson, Slavinska, Nikolaev, Mariupol, Taganrog and the old cities of Simferopol, Balaclava, Kerch, Theodosia that already had a significant number of Greek inhabitants. They had a lot of Tartaric influences in language and culture but most preserved their identity with all the persecutions and never stopped thinking about freedom and hegemony over their self proclaimed lords. The Greeks already settling the before mentioned towns and cities of Crimea were sympathetic to the Russian invasion but most fled eastwards, over the frozen Sea of Azov fearing the revenge of the Tartars because they defected to the Russians when the last entered Crimea. Another reason was the suggestion that they do so by the Russians. They didn't know that the Russians had in fact another plan, depopulating Crimea even if it meant slaughtering the Tartars to make way for their own and for the people they needed. Russians took their revenge for the more than two million Russians and Ukrainians sold by the Tartars to the Ottomans over the past two hundred years as slaves. Another reason was to present themselves as liberators of all Hellenes, giving them sanctuary in their own lands. Many Greek volunteers came from the lands enlisted a few rows above to join the Russian forces especially because many aristocrats of Byzantine royal blood and rich and influential merchants settled in Russia, including the family of Alexandros Ypsilantis, that will play a crucial role later on. They hoped their own will use their influence to give them the best conditions and their prayers were not in vain. After Crimea was annexed by Russia it received even more people of different nations, in numerous waves of migrations but only Greeks were given the right to organize and govern the new colony. A reason for this was the sounding victories the Russians won over the allied Ottomans and Tartars, inflicting many casualties while suffering few. Their army was professional and won over enemies double the size. A young Russian commander did the unthinkable, he charged the enemy consisting of 75,000 mixed Ottoman cavalry and infantry troops with less then 45,000 troops and with no help on the way, near Kagul river in southern Bessarabia. The confederate army consisted of 30,000 Ottoman Infantry, 45,000 Ottoman cavalry and between 80,000 and 100,000 Tartaric cavalry garrisoned at only 20 km away. The Russians went for life and death, they played the Russian roulette and won. The element of surprise was the winning factor as it rapidly routed the Ottomans and gave no chance for the Tartars to intervene. You see we are not so different you and I, we both go for all or nothing, I Tan I Epi Tas (ἤ τᾶν ἤ ἐπί τᾶς). The Russians attacked with such fervor that they instantly killed and wounded 20,000 confederate troops while suffering only 1,000-1,500 casualties. It was a tremendous victory and it meant the end of the Tartaric hegemony and a great lose for the Ottomans regarding prestige and support. The Russians also used strategy and were compared to the Romans later on. They pretended to withdraw, fooling even their own emperor, remaining hidden for months in a raw, waiting for the Turks to advance and try to recapture the lost lands and encircling them. The Turks had about 70,000 troops and left 20,000 to guard the provisions. The Russians moved swiftly around them and slaughtered the 20,000 left behind with almost no casualties. They encircled the enemy but left their leader escape the encirclement on purpose so that he would negotiate for peace. Their strategy was fruitful as the Ottomans had no supplies and there were too many souls to be sacrificed. The commanders of the Russian army were true tacticians of the battlefield and benefited from great sympathy in the Orthodox world. Greeks those days still considered themselves Romans, descendents of the empire of Constantine and Helen and fought for Orthodoxy. Russians used this in their advantage promising help against the Ottomans and support for freeing the traditional lands of the Eastern Roman Empire and providing military assistance to the possible new country. It is true that in the past Russians were inspired by the Eastern Romans that later became Byzantines and borrowed many elements of their culture including their religion and writing. Let us remember that the Cyrilic script was invented by a Byzantine monk using the Greek alphabet for the Russians. Russians and Slavs in general were admirers of the Byzantines and traditional allies. Afterall they provided the Varangian guard that played a crucial role for the Byzantines, being used in the critical moments of the battle. The Varangians also served as the personal guard of the emperor and were very loyal, fighting to the death, it was an oath made to their leader. Greeks trusted the Russians as they kept their promise of providing military assistance to their fellow Orthodox in the past and their trust will be rewarded with their freedom later on when the Russian army will fight for the Greek cause in the name of their general of Greek origin, Alexandros Ypsilantis, a hero of the Napoleonic Wars and a very popular figure alongside Kardasis, minister of foreign affairs in Russia, even if at first both will be considered and treated as deserters and traitors. The actions and sufferings of Ypsilantis will soften the heart of the Russian emperor and he will use the social and political struggles of the Greeks in his favor, he will weaken the Ottoman Empire that was already crumbling even more and reduce the influence of the Western powers in the Black Sea region and the Aegean. Alongside Greeks other people came to the lands of the victors and they were frenzy about getting there. The Russians even supplied ships to get them safe across the Black Sea but the great majority came in caravans. Russians called Bulgarians and Ukrainians for agriculture, Germans for wine-farming and Greeks for trading. From all the nations Greeks became the most important as they were born merchants and brought a lot of money to the Russians and themselves by trading wheat especially, by sea from the ports in the immediate areas, developed or created by empress Catherine the Great. German colonies started flourishing as well and the newcomers bought farms from Russians when there was no more land. Even more came and started planting cereals instead of grape vines later on. They even had their own hospitals. Later many of the Greeks that arrived in Crimea settled in Mariupol as well, they started building churches and schools there, symbols of Orthodox civilization. Crimea became Mikri Elada, the same name given to our village by the Greek representatives that visited us in the past years, they knew why. It seems the population there is from the northern part as it presents vowel deletion and other specific modifications of the languages of the north like the replacement of the vowel e with i or o with u. They also have many Turkic, Bulgarian and Aromanian influences. The traditional clothes were Bulgarian, they used many words borrowed from Turkic dialects and the elder also knew the official language of the Ottoman Empire, they used it to hide certain things from the young. The music is very similar to the ones of the Aromanians. This again shows affiliation to the inhabitants of Epirus, Macedon and Thessaly as in these places lived alongside Greeks many Bulgarians, Turks and Aromanians. Many Circassians, allies of the Ottomans were relocated in this places as well. From what I know the later had a similar role to the Cossacks. From what the elders say Macedon was our home but they also say they first migrated in Russia from where seven families decided to return but because of a baby being born remained in Dobrudja, Romania. In fact Dobrudja was still part of the Ottoman Empire back then but the population was scarce. They were hosted and given protection by Ali Bey Koy. They stood hidden in the forests for a long time and lived in improvised homes, always with the intention of packing and leaving. They probably remained for so long because they later heard that only Morea was freed. The fact that they gave Turkic names to the surrounding places and their own shows similarity with the old inhabitants of Mariupol. As we know there was a great mix there and many didn't adapt. Most returned in Crimea where the climate wasn't so harsh. After the Russians ended the privileges given to Greeks for settling the new conquered lands and changed their view over the area some chose or were forced to leave. The ones that did were no longer the ones that came, because most had mixed with the local population of Tartaric and Greek descent. We can see this in the features of the inhabitants of our village as there are people with very different aspect. If some have dark complexions other have a very light skin and blond hair. Some also have Asiatic features. The question is if the influences of Turkic origin regarding the language are from the Bazaar language spoken in Crimea as well but that needs further research. Greeks that settled in Crimea from before Christ moved to the other side of the Azov Sea and settled in many villages that later united to form Mariupol. Migrants from Fanarios, Constantinopolis moved there and in Odessa as well, being followed by merchants from Pontos. In Odessa a large contingent of armed troops gathered, including inhabitants of the islands, you can see the skeleton, symbol of the pirates, on the hats of the members of the Sacred Band of Ypsilantis. They were mainly scholars from the Pontic areas and the islands of the Aegean Sea but later received volunteers from Rumelia as well. This was the new front of the Byzantines, they wanted to reestablish the Byzantine Empire, that was their goal. The learned merchants from Constantinopolis, Ioanina, Thessaloniki mainly and possibly the remnants of Moskopolis founded a brotherhood with the intend to free the former Byzantine territories and managed to gain the support of the Russians, Serbians, Montenegrins and Romanians using their influence in the Russian army and government. They spread all over the Balkans, in Italy, Austria, Romania as well and waited for the right moment to act and unite, to rise from the ashes. The inhabitants of Rumelia followed, Romania or Roumania (Ῥωμανία/Ῥouμανία - our version Romania/Rumania) as the Byzantines called the Balkans. They were mainly from Epirus, Macedon and Thessaly. They spoke Romaic, Rumeyka or Rumaiika (Ρωμαίικα - our version Riuimeica) and called themselves Rhomaioi, Romioi or Roumaioi (Riumeii/Roomii/Rumeii). The Pontic language is called Romeyka, Rumca or Rumcika, the last versions being the Turkish ones derived from the Turkish word Rum, denoting ethnic Greeks living in Turkey in general. In Greece even now in the northern part if one calls you Rhomaikos, Rhomaios, Roumaios or Romios (Riumeicos/Riumeos/Rumeeus/Romios) it is an honor, you are Roman, Byzantine, not Greek. It usually means Hellenized Roman. The names Român/Rumân or Armân have the same meaning only that the first kept their Latin language even if the Slavs, Hungarians and many other Turkic, Germanic and Alorodian people migrated in their lands while the others used two languages, one being used on a daily bases, the spoken one with a similar role to Dimotiki, the Aromanian Latin language and the other one Katharevousa, the written Koine Greek, used in liturgical and scholastic books, official documents and writings of all sorts and kept almost unchanged from the time of Alexander the Great as a Bazaar language and as a language of the clerics, scholars and officials. The Romanized population from the north was split in two, after the Slavic migration led by Iranian or Turkic rulers took place, and their Latin languages evolved separately. Relations between these two people were insignificant as the Slavic populations forced the Aromanians to settle the hills and mountains and isolated them from the other Romanized populations. Nonetheless the Aromanians from Moskopolis, Moschopolis, Voskopolis, Moscopole or Moscopolea how you prefer kept permanent contact with the Hellenized Romans and even if they kept their Latin language considered the former as their confederate friends. They even wrote a dictionary in four languages in Greek, Aromanian, Albanian and Bulgarian with the intent to Hellenize all the people of the Balkans because they shared the idea that Byzantine Greek should be the new official language of the empire and used in all the documents and writings, as a Bazaar language, especially because alongside Turkish, Greek or Romeyka was already a lingua franca in the peninsula. Even so the written and the spoken Greek differed and the first was accessible only to learned persons and the process of creating a new language was inevitable. This shows that they were still loyal to the Byzantine concept. As I said before they were protectors of the Hellenism and it's culture and with the money gathered from trading with Venice, Vienna, Budapest and Leipzig they financed the Byzantine secret organizations with the role of liberating the Balkans and uniting all the people of the peninsula under one flag, one nation, one religion, one dream, the dream of Constantine and Helen and always tried to convince their neighbors to join their cause, the common cause, the cause of the Byzantines and the protectors of Orthodoxy and Hellenism, defenders of faith and nation, of royal blood. They used cultura animi to enlighten the neighboring nations, not war and that was their end, the Albanians turned against them, were attracted by their riches and not by their heart, their dream and knowledge. The Turks led by the half Albanian Ali Pasha fallowed and Moscopole turned to fire and ashes. Aromanians then migrated in the lands of their clients and in the land of their agelong allies, the Greeks to unite and fight against everything that stood in their way and not besides them under one Alexios (defender/protector/guardian/general/leader/emperor) and avenge the cavaliers that gave their life for their sacred land, Moscopolea. The ones that died for their city asked the young people to find another place for their nation and transmit their endless efforts for a free and prosperous home to the generations to come. Returning to the people that migrated in Russia and prepared the revolution, last but not least, the heroes of Mani embarked Russian vessels to save themselves from the invading Egyptians. Let's remember that Mani was the place from where Mavrocordatos started the rise of Hellas. It was the place where Byzantines of Fanarios, Constantinopolis settled and planned the uprising together with the diaspora from Odessa. They are the true saviors of the Balkans. It is an honor to be a diaspora if a diaspora had such an important role. Unfortunately our goal is not over, we still have the dream of our forefathers to fulfill, to rise from the ashes and conquer all that stands in front of us and not besides us. Long live the dream of Constantine and Helen! Long live the dream of Mega Alexandros and his Hetairoi, Timomenoi Philoi. Again the old population from mainland Greece call their language Roman and so do the few that remained in Anatolia after the population exchange, pretending to be of Turkic descent to keep their houses. The ones from Crimea and Odessa also call their language Roman not because they were part of the Byzantine Empire but because they were allies of the Romans instead of Mithridates and his subjects during the Mithridatic Wars and say they speak the language of the empire that included them in the Pax Romana system even if in fact they speak the most archaic form of the Ionian Dialect, specific to their Anatolian Metropolis of Miletus, due to their isolation and autonomy during the contests of Alexander of Macedon, in Byzantine times and the German, Iranian, Turkic, Ugric and Alorodian migrations near and in their lands that isolated them even further from the rest of the Hellenic world. They were at first an Emporion, it is true but evolved separately and assimilated many Thracian, Iranian, Germanic and Slavic populations over the time. Even if they managed to preserve their culture with all the migrations, merging with the invading Roxolani, the last of the Scythians, becoming friends with the Goths, Tartars were the ones that enslaved them and tried to destroy their culture. They did this by killing as many men and raping their women, by forcing the submitting people to work the fields and asking high tribute. Many Greeks willingly chose to renounce their identity and adopt the way of the Tartars and their language receiving the new name of Urum but even more chose to resist. Urum is the Arabic word for Roman but was used to denominate the Byzantines and later Greeks as well. Few know that the official language of the Ottomans was a mix of Arabian and Persian. They affiliated themselves with the Empire of Trebizond but the empire had a short life. Later the proper Greek inhabitants of Crimea received help from the Italians over the Tartars. They ultimately destroyed their torturers with the help of Empress Catherine the Great of Russia. They have similarities with the Northern dialects and Pontic most likely because of the mass migrations during the late medieval period. Guess who else call their demotic language Roman even if in fact is the last form of Byzantine Greek spoken by a community and not isolated groups or persons? The remnants of the Byzantine Empire of course, the ones that speak Cappadocian Greek, remnants of the Empire of Nicaea, the ones that speak Pontic including the Mariupolitan dialect, remnants of the Empire of Trebizond and Mikri Elada of Odessa and Crimea, the speakers of the Northern dialects from Epirus, Thessaly, Macedon and Thrace remnants of the Despotate of Epirus, Kingdom of Thessalonika and Byzantine Empire proper. Most now live in Northern Greece, being relocated after the exchange of population fallowing the Treaty of Sevres but many live in Romania, Ukraine, Russia, Georgia and Turkey as well. Most of the last languages of the Byzantines are highly influenced by Turkish due to isolation and vicinity. My grandparents and relatives that went to Greece wondered if we truly are of Hellenic heritage because our language is so odd in comparison to the modern one but the answer lies in history. When Morea was liberated the Ionian dialects based on ancient Athenian and Maniot were the base of the new language. Even so the written language was the clerical one, the ancient one kept in churches. People had trouble understanding what the officials spoke and slowly the two languages mixed, Dimotiki, the spoken one and Katharevousa or the clean one and gave birth to Standard Modern Greek. The process was similar to the one in Romania to clean the language of borrowed words but if Romanians chose words of Latin origin from French, English and Italian mostly, Greeks used the recorded original Koine, born from the ancient Ionian dialect. From all the dialects of antiquity Ionian and Dorian remained in Greece but the last in isolated groups. Two other Greek languages derived from the Dorian language are spoken by very few people in Italy, Apulia and Calabria. These are the remnants of the ancient colonists of Magna Graecia. The ones from Apulia speak Griko and the ones from Calabria speak Greek-Bovesian. The Ophitic language of the Pontian Greek Muslims is another archaic language of Ionian descent, together with Mariupolitan. Ionian was taken by Alexander the Great of Macedon further than any other Greek language, that is why most of the current languages have a Ionian descent. The language spread by Alexander is called Koine, the common tongue. Hope I answered your question."

[Visarion]

Kingdom of Kush, Africa, enemies of the Ptolemies I presume, similar to the ancient Egyptians with pyramids and stuff. Remnants of queen Sheba?

https://youtu.be/Iwb1I9y882E

[Tenerife_Boy]

Kingdom of Kush, Africa, enemies of the Ptolemies I presume, similar to the ancient Egyptians with pyramids and stuff. Remnants of queen Sheba?

https://youtu.be/Iwb1I9y882E

18:48 pikemen without pikes fighting....no way