Any serious, good competition to CA?

[Slaists]

Not sure this is the right forum for my question, but here it is. Does anyone know of any serious competition to CA in their old genre (as opposed to the "new", Warhammer-like games) of history based military strategy games with real time battles? Just a TW veteran here looking to "scratch that itch" with something new. To be frank, Warhammer does not do it for me.

[Meelis13]

wrong forum.

[Sir Adrian]

Not a review. Moved to other games

[cjm81499]

Age of Empires, both II and III are very fun in my opinion. 1 is good too, but not as good I don't think. They are very different from Total War but still good, RTS, and fun.

[eXistenZ]

I sometimes play AoE with a friends (2, HD), and then I realise that TW pathfinding actually is quite alright when you compare it to that

Keep an eye out for Ancient Empires.

[DaVinci]

Not sure this is the right forum for my question, but here it is. Does anyone know of any serious competition to CA in their old genre (as opposed to the "new", Warhammer-like games) of history based military strategy games with real time battles? Just a TW veteran here looking to "scratch that itch" with something new. To be frank, Warhammer does not do it for me.

There has been Knights of Honor (KoH). Medieval world strategy map with tactical battle mode.

Came out in the same year of RTW. Not sure if you can get it still, but it's very worth a try, especially superior strategical AI compared to RTW (and perhaps even to all Total War games, except the old MTW).

We had also a thread in this area here, surely very deep in the page numbers (maybe a search will put it up for you).

Or just google it.

Edit: (googled)

It's even on Steam http://store.steampowered.com/app/25830/?l=german
... but be careful with this Steam version, it's not patched.
Better try to get it from another seller in a patched version.
My own version is the original CD version in a box and patch has been available online.
Btw., there were mods as well.

[Destraex]

I have the same problem. Total war has not felt right for some time. It looks great until you zoom out, the combat no longer feels like unit combat. Total war is still a good game though. Still the best of it's kind. I like realism and history... total war has not improved on what it should have... such as mixing weapons and irregular formations for armies, supply lines etc for a long time. It has stagnated and become boring. Instead deciding to go the pure greed path that will get the most cash in the short term. I honestly hope something fills the gap. Perhaps because a separate team is now on a historical total war we will actually get some less gamey mechanics and some new realistic ones.. while the kiddies play warhammer.
There are some alternatives I know of. But as you want better, I don't know about that.

Chinese version is something like kingdoms at war... Cannot actually remember name
Hegemony is another series, but again amateur hour compared to total war
Oriental empires is one to look out for as well
Cossacks3 is more of an RTS than anything realistic but is old school enough to interest me slightly.. on the fence for this because they did not improve anything. No cannon crew, scaled down buildings, generic animations of troops stabbing each other in the back with bayonets etc.

Consider as well that ca is supposed to have a different team creating another historical total war.

Edit: Here it is, CHRONICLES OF THE THREE KINGDOMS


Hegemony


If you like ww2 I suggest combat mission final blitzkrieg in a similar vein. For which there is a demo. Lots of ww2 games coming along as well. Such as the tactical art of combat and close combat 3D.

[herne_the _hunter]

Graviteam Tactics Operation Star and it's sequal Mius Front. Turn based campaigns and real time combat Although the campaigns are not empire building games as Total War but in the context of an operational campaign. You should also have a look at Scourge of War Waterloo which has a sense of scale that makes the battle of Waterloo in Napoleon Total War laughable with also a sandbox campaign.

Back to Graviteam Tactics Operation Star and I must say it's the best realistic wargame I've played in ages it really is like going back to using tabletop minatures with a realistic set of rules. More realistic than Company of Heroes could ever hope to achieve if WW2 interests you and amongst the various addon dlc campaigns also has an Angolan War campaign set in 1989

[Destraex]

herne have you played any of the newer combat mission games... they all have demos.

Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy
Combat Mission: Red Thunder
Combat Mission: Fortress Italy
Combat Mission: Final Blitzkrieg
Combat Mission: Black Sea

[eXistenZ]

Hegemony games are really poor, don't recommend them at all.

there is the Seven Years War, on steam, but its very difficult to find gameplay of it.

If you dont mind going oldskool Imperial Glory was released around the time of Empire

[Turkeys!]

I wish they'd put the Combat Mission games on Steam or at least give some discounts. The Battlefront site has them but it's on the expensive side.

[herne_the _hunter]

herne have you played any of the newer combat mission games... they all have demos.

Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy
Combat Mission: Red Thunder
Combat Mission: Fortress Italy
Combat Mission: Final Blitzkrieg
Combat Mission: Black Sea

Thanks for the heads up i'll check them out in due course. Reading up about Combat Mission it started from an attempt to computerise Avalon Hills Advanced Squad Leader hex boardgame so it starts from a good heritage.

Imperial Glory uses the Risk style map of the first two TW titles but the lack of moral in the real time battles feels weird. If you just auto resolve you are better off just getting March of Eagles in thwe first place.

Can I also suggest Mount and Blade Warband and also the Viking Conquest dlc as alternatives. (Napoleonic Wars is multiplayer and With Fire and Sword is disqualified as it doesn't have any artillery pieces.)

Seven Years War is an interesting game with a real time campaign ala Paradox mixed with realtime battles ala TW. All designed and made by one person. There's a historical battle dlc coming out this month. There are some lets plays but not with the latest patch which was earlier this month.
The game is currently 25% off on Steam right now.

[leviath]

The Close Combat series has a turn based campaign, with real time battles. It's old and clunky but really great especially The Longest Day.

[Destraex]

did I mention scourge of war waterloo. Cannot remember. Graphics and interface are horrible though.... Really really bad.

[Inhuman One]

Would be nice if total war would get a real competitor. I think any succesfull game series needs that in order to stay sharp and keep pushing to improve. Whenever a franchise is unopposed, the developers or publishers tend to get lazy because it will sell anyways.

Thing is, if a competitor would come on the market, they would have to offer something new as well in addition to offering a similar experience to total war with the campaign map and battle map battles.

If it was a medieval game they could do that by adding moats and drawbridges as an option to castles and cities that are located near rivers. That would add a lot of new stuff to siege warfare. But most of all capturing the way battles worked in medieval 2 would be much appreciated since there they actually lasted quite a while and it allowed for more historical tactics. In later games its all more arcade-ish.

Customisation of generals could also be an interesting feature for a competitor to have. Being allowed to name new born family members, and customise their appearance when they come of age. Their face, eyecolor, hairstyle, facial hair, helmet and armor.
Being able to assign them to a different focus when in a settlement could also allow them to do more aside from fighting wars. They could host banquets to improve relations with other factions, host tournaments to allow knights to be recruited with more experience, crack down on crime in case of civil unrest, etc.

[Destraex]

Stronghold3 does a lot of that.

[prithupaul]

I had to refund both Warhammer and Charlamagne (last two TW releases I tried) due to generic-RTS like combat and lack of historicity.

Recently I had good fun (a lot more than recent Total War games) with Nobunaga's Ambition, Graviteam Tactics, Command Ops (no campaign in this one though), StarSector, Close Combat, Sengoku Jidai, AGEOD Wargames (no tactical battles) among others.

[Destin Faroda]

Recently I had good fun (a lot more than recent Total War games) with Nobunaga's Ambition

"Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence" is an excellent PC game with hundreds of historically correct officers, clans, a quest system and a beautiful map of Japan with Hokkaido.
Battles are a bit bland, but at least they use mixed formations.
They've recently announced an addon with even more goodness like officer play and sieges.

[prithupaul]

Battles are a bit bland, but at least they use mixed formations.

Indeed. Also, compared to Total War, warfare in Nobunaga / ROTK series features realistic troop numbers, realistic marching times, logistics and even a basic army structure / OOB.

[herne_the _hunter]

TBH if you ditch the requirements of real time battles then the gaming world is your strategy oyster...