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Thread: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

  1. #1
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    This mod is included in the SSHIP 0.9.6
    with the following levels, thresholds, and probabilities. In the patches some parameters may change, eg. I've moved Mining skills to GoodMiner trait, just to simplify the things. Anyway, go to SSHIP 096.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    -----------

    This mini-mod changes the conditions and probabilities in the triggers related to the education of the generals, young and older, and also of the benefits of the educational buildings. The goal is to provide players with more realistic gameplay, more realistic trait-acquiring by the generals, and more use of the educational buildings. There should be more decisions to be made when using the generals in the game and I hope common-sense decisions will be even more rewarded.

    Section VIII of the EDCT
    The minimod changes only Section VIII of the export_desc_character_trait.txt (EDCT file).
    In the section VIII (and, consequently, in the mod) there are 4 important issues dealt with:

    • Military Education and Administrative Education triggers: different for different factions, as a result there are 5 important traits coded “Military_Edu”, “Western_Edu”, “Eastern_Edu”, “Greek_Edu”, “Pagan_Edu”. The triggers in the section define when the education points can be gained (mainly for the young, but also for older generals), and also when they are lost.
    • Potential of young generals to get education and acquire different character traits. The important trait is “WantSchool” – set at the beginning to 16, then goes down so that there are 16 turn when many triggers fire. Most of the triggers in this section fire under condition “WantSchool >0”, which means they are only for young generals.
    • Educational “inclinations”: either Administrative or Military, and also the Scholar feature: these make it easier for some of the generals to get one of the kinds of education, which is also related with the question where and how should they spend their youth (i.e. those first 16 turns). Many triggers in this section are devoted to either Administratively inclind (or Minded: ADMind), or Military inclined (or Minded: MilMind) generals.
    • Benefits of the education buildings (“School” line, “Library” line). They main use is to enable the education of the young generals, but they also help gaining “after school” education (i.e. those older than 21 years, coded:WantSchool<1), and also provide nice other traits for the older generals. These triggers make the buildings worthy to build.


    Summary of the changes made by the mod:


    • Specialization in education: administrative education is mainly for Administratively Minded generals, military education is mainly for Military Minded. This was the principle already before, but it was very weak. Now the other specialization is very difficult to gain (the probabilities are very low or there're additional requirements).
    • A lot of modifications for getting Administrative Education: standard level is provided by mainly by universities; it is possible (though unlikely) that a non-scholar ADMind will get to the Advanced level; Libraries make difference for ADMind and, especially, for Scholars. It is possible to gain some Administrative Education also later, but only until the age of 50.
    • Scholars are now only ADMind, they learn quickly at every level of education (before it mattered only at the University after the Advances level); they can get Advanced education after the schooling age (as previously), but working at the bigger establishments (universities) will be more rewarded; they will learn longer in their lives and lose education in old age slower.
    • A lot of modifications for getting Military Education. While at an early age basics can be learned by MilMind even in the smaller castles without battles, further learning requires the experience of life in fortresses or citadels, and also successful battlefield experience: to get Advanced education a general must get the trait Promising Commander beforehand. Advanced/Master Education may be learned by the middle-aged generals who got famous in the battles (Great and Renown Victors) through complementing their education at the fortresses and citadels. However, after passing 40, they will no longer learn in the castles, they will be able to upgrade their education only on the battlefields. As far as the ADMinds are concerned, there are ways to gain Military Education, but it is much harder than for MilMind (and much harder than before).
    • Guilds’ buildings may impact on the acquired traits (not education) during the whole school age (not one-time at the age of 21, as before); also the normal guilds may impact. Probabilities of those impacts remain very small: during the whole schooling period there’s a cumulative chance of 48%/32%/24%/16% for getting a point, before it was usualy 20%/10%. If you compare it to the impact of the other triggers, it is really tiny.
    • There’re a few new triggers related to the educational buildings, providing the traits as Poet or Medical Training. Spending time in the settlement with educational buildings (also in the castles) may further the Administrative education of the middle-aged generals (age between 22 and 50), and so can successful management of the settlements (even if with very low probabilities).
    • Very old generals (passing 60) will gradually lose their education benefits, while those with Alzheimer (trait Senile) very fast.
    • Generals presented for marriage and adoption will be slightly better educated and Scholars may appear.
    • Some bugs have been fixed, e.g. education period (trait WantSchool>0 is now 8 years (or 16 turns), not 7,5 years as before), or Inspiring Teacher, or some double triggers for some traits like Drink, Girls ect.


    Gameplay-wise: the changes should make the player attentive to the education of the young generals. When your general comes of age, have a look at his inclination, plan his first 8 years in the right way. Put the ADMind in the best cities, and build the necessary educational buildings beforehand. The right guild (Merchants? Masons?) would also be beneficial, especially if at the Master level. If the general is Scholar educate him even if you don't have a university and even after he passes 21 - he can learn quickly thoghout his life. He will afterwards provide much income for your cities from the benefits of the Advanced Administrative education.
    From the very beginning let the MilMind general start fighting and dwelling a castle, even a small one. Once he gets some education, get him to a bigger castle, where he can learn - Castle, Fortress or Citadel. HorseBreeders’ or Sworsmen’ guild would be also welcome in that place. Later in his life watch if he gets the Great Victor or Renown Victor traits. If yes, then put him into a Fortress to get Master education to be fast and lead the troops in the battlefields better.
    On the other hand, don’t expect much from the long-living general who passed into their 60ties – they will not be as capable, as they used to be, and they will deteriorate fast.

    What does the mod do?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    • It modifies only the EDCT file, and only “Section VIII: EDUCATION TRAITS “ – nothing in the other parts of the file (in particular, I haven’t changed the benefits of education, the levels of education, the point-thresholds for getting a level). What follows, it does not change the text appearing in-game on the traits.
    • It does not substantially change the overall probabilities of getting the traits. Some have been lowered (eg. Administratively minded generals will not get so much Military Education), some have been bolstered up (eg. Benefits from the guilds), but at the end the number of the relevant traits your general get should be similar. The main change: the generals will have either Military or Administrative education, very rarely Basic of the other one.
    • It changes the triggers for Education included originally in the section VIII. A few triggers are not related to “WantSchool” trait (“After school education” - sitting in a town with bimaristan, school and library) but I kept them in the section for compatibility reasons.
    • It makes some order in the section for future modders to change it easier.
    • All the modifications have been listed below, in another entry.

    What hasn’t been changed:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    • The thresholds and points for getting a level in the relevant education (4 levels for Military Education, 3 levels for Administrative).
    • The benefits from being educated at every of those levels. [but for the next version they will - see here].
    • Probabilities of getting the Inclination (MilEdu is 70% for Cumans and Lithuanians, 40% for the other factions) at birth and marriage.
    • The whole logic of education:
      • 8 year-period for education, i.e. when a general can easily get education (Administrative, Military or Pagan)
      • Provision of education by educational facilities both in the cities and in the castles, with some impact of the guilds’ buildings (and by the wilderness, for pagans).
      • Administrative education is acquired in the cities, while Military – at the battlefields and in the castles.
      • Getting education is not deterministic – all probabilities lower than 100% of getting a point in education, so a general can spend all 8years in a city/castle and learn nothing. Alternatively, they may be a miracle of a MilMind getting to Advanced Administrative education. Yes, it would be really a miracle.
      • Different sorts of traits gained during Education (like Drink, Girls, Rublerouser etc.)

    • In the EDCT file there is one other trigger outside section VII, where “WantSchool” is used – (King_HigherEducation). I think should be used more often, but I haven’t touched it

    What you need to do to use the mod?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    • Replace “export_desc_character_traits.txt” in the mod/data with the attached file.
    • Or open your “export_desc_character_traits.txt” and cut-and-past the relevant part of text (section VIII – nothing was modified outside of this part).
    • I think it’s save-compatible (at least I use it like this and I see in-game the effects, but maybe there’s a dark witchcraft I’m not aware of).
    • I've used the EDCT file from SSHIP as the starting point. I have the impression that it's almost the same file as in the vanilla SS6.4 (some tweaks in percentages, no TeutonicOrder faction). I belive I've used the standard SS buildings and guilds in the triggers. In this sense this minimod may be used by the other SS-submods, I guess.
    • As far as the buildings in the triggers are concerned, it uses the “castle_library” building that is available only to some factions only in two places, which are irrelevant to the other factions (Poet trait, Hanseatic guild). As a result, all factions are equal and the mod is ready to be used with all the factions.
    • You may use the mod in your modifications as you please, changing it as you please. You may cut-and-paste the text from this forum-entry as you please (including the guide below). If you inform me about the fact of using my work by PMing on the TWC, it would be nice. If you put somewhere the credits, I’d be also happy. But it’s not essential.

    export_descr_character_traits.txt
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; February 18, 2020 at 04:35 AM. Reason: Complete change of the thread.

  2. #2
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Education and guilds - tiny modification for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Interesting
    Let's see how it works and I look forward the implementation for other cultures
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  3. #3
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (2)

    A guide for Education of Generals (for SSHIP 0.9.6, applies partly to 0.9.2)

    Administrative Education.

    Administrative Education provides generals with exceptionally valuable skills for squeezing out money from the provinces and for keeping order in the settlements. It has four levels: Basic, Standard, Advanced, Master. Each religion has own names and different set of benefits attached to each level. Education can be acquired by teenagers studying in the cities with educational buildings. Especially gifted generals, the Scholars, can study longer and achieve the highest levels of education. Some education can be acquired also thanks to the on-the-job experience during their life, if they’re intelligent.

    Any young general spending a whole turn in a city with school or university, and possibly with a library, can get the Administrative Education. Administratively Minded teenagers will be trained very efficiently, while the Military oriented ones may get only basic administrative levels. If a settlement has only a school, the Schooled trait is the most that can be achieved. For further studies a University is needed – if there’s non, the general has completed his education and is ready for service.

    The Intelligent teenagers are likely to learn fast, while the Ignorant ones are likely to lose their ignorance while studying. Slothfulness or insanity may impede the process, while father’s traits and a few ancillaries (like Tutor or Mentor or a book) may speed it up.

    During his life any general can learn things or two from the other sources – reading a book or managing a settlement with a guild or educational facilities. The main condition is that he’s got some intelligence, some other traits count as well. The Scholars will learn as adults as if they’re teenagers – until they attain the highest level of education. So keep them in a settlement with a university even if they passed 20. On the other hand, after a general passes 50 (for a scholars: 60), he’s likely to slowly forget his training due to the old age and ensuing senility.

    Military Education.

    Military Education provides a general with very valuable military skills. It has four levels: Soldier Training, Officer Training, General Training and Commander-in-Chief Training. The first two (and, exceptionally, the third one) can be acquired by teenagers studying in the castles. Two higher levels usually require real military experience in the battles and some further studying. Don’t forget however that the main way to get this type of education is by fighting battles!

    Any general spending a whole turn in a castle-type settlement can get the Military Education. Military Minded teenagers will be trained very efficiently, while the Administrative oriented ones may get only basic martial skills (Soldier Training, in very rare cases Officer). The higher the level of the castle, the better. The “Born to Command” or “Born Conqueror” youngsters may easily get the Officer Training here, while in rare cases even the General’s one. There are maximum levels that can be attained: if a youngster attains the Officer Training in a Wooden Castle, there’s no point to train him further unless he’s got exceptional skills (Natural Commander or better). Similarly, in Castles, Fortresses and Citadels the maximum is the General Training – except for those with good skills (Talent for Command, Natural Commander or better) in the Citadels. So once you’ve got message of a general attaining a level of training, he might be ready for fight before he reaches the age of 20.

    This means that training in a citadel with many military buildings is the most efficient. This is especially true if the guilds - and even better their master levels – are present in the castle. Father’s traits have a significant impact on education, and good natural military skills (I.E. Talent for Command, Natural Commander or better), positive cognitive traits (Smart or better), ancillaries (like Tutor or Mentor or military book) also count. On the other hand, being unfit physically or mentally may thwart education.

    Once a general matures, he should go for war and get the hands-on experience. This will give him additional Military Education but also prepares him for further studies. If he becomes an Aspiring or Proven Commander, Great or Renowned Victor, he can complement education at fortresses or citadels, spending a few turns there. However, if he’s older than 50, or unfit physically or mentally, he will not able to get this education.

    During his life any general can learn a thing or two also from other sources – reading a Military Book or living in a settlement with a guild may help, if he’s endowed with natural military skills. On the other hand, after he passes 55, he’s likely to slowly forget his training due to the old age and ensuing senility.


    Pagan Education

    Pagan Education provides pagan generals with valuable military and administrative skills. It’s available for the Lithuanians and the Cumans (Kipchaks maybe?). It has four levels: Basic, Standard, Advanced, and Master. Pagans get their education as teenagers by studying (I.E. spending a few whole turns) in their settlements where their shrines are built: altars, sanctuaries and temples (the bigger, the better). Alternatively, staying (I.E. spending a few whole turns) in the wild may help a bit. The higher levels of education are acquired easier by the administratively minded generals or those with natural military skills (I.E. those “Born to Command” or “Born Conqueror). Keep in mind that all generals (especially those military minded) can get the same knowledge by fighting battles!
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; January 28, 2020 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Guides added

  4. #4
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (3)

    Additional modifications already implemented (attention: they're not included into the files attached to this thread, but in GTCS minimod)
    -
    some bad traits are very likely to appear if you do teach generals according to the educational system. I've fixed the corruption issues and the sobriety issues, while the still-existing low possibility of getting some traits is intended.
    -
    Inspiring teacher coming from the Crown
    -
    Health triggers for education
    -
    Benefits from different levels of education - balancing and changes of the names and descriptions to provide more immersion.

    Future improvements
    Here I would like to gather the ideas what can be done (easily) if modifications would have been made also in the other parts of the EDCT file, and in the other files of the mod.


    Not yet in the files, but firm ideas (see below other entries in the tread):
    • Mentor, Tutor, Academic Advisor assist young generals in learning
    • Linking the Administrative / Military inclinations with probabilities of getting other governing traits (eg. Good Taxman, GoodBuilder etc.) - I'm doing it as a part of GTCS

    Changes related to the buildings (mainly in the section 8 of EDCT):

    • The role of Castle Library and Academy - I wanted to make it a typical educational establishment for further Military Education. But not all factions have access, so they should not be used in the general triggers. For now they are only in two: getting a Poet and learning from the Hanseatic guild. I've got some ideas: triggers making it easy for Adm_Mind to learn Mil_Edu or possibility of getting Adm_Edu at castles.
    • The impact of the non-educational buildings on young generals (WantSchoold >0):
      • City-military buildings: Local Recruitment, Cannon Foundry, SiegeWorks, MilitaryAcademy, MercenaryBarracks, Barracks – may provide some Mil_Edu in the cities.
      • Inns – distraction from learning at higher levels?
      • Churches – good for Adm_Edu, bad for Mil_Edu?
      • Monasteries / Medical Care / Hospital – some benefits, but not so much as bimaristans (knowledge of medicine in the West was not so widespread).
      • Music (Theater, Conservatorium) - the Poet trait?
      • Artists Studios, Iconic Art
      • Banks, Italian Merchants’ Quarters
      • Academia (Alchemist Lab and Alchemy School)

    • Triggers for Adm_Edu from other actions, in particular finishing the buildings (eg. CityHall) - the question is, should there be an impact on education?
    • Review of the triggers for Mil_Edu from finishing military buildings (they are in the other section of the EDCT file).
    • Review of the other effects (ie. on other traits) of the triggers in the section VII (education) of EDCT. Usually it's done while reviewing the other triggers, but a second round of review in the context of education will be useful.
    • Delete triggers for king getting education (starting with King_MilitaryEducated), but create triggers for the king getting Authority from being educated (might also be negative).

    I don't foresee changes:

    • Modification of the traits' point-thresholds (higher thresholds or adjustment of points) - I've managed to set up a system without changing it. I think it’s fine and the points should stay. If somebody modifies them, all the triggers would have to be adjusted as well - a hell of irrelevant work for an experienced modder.

    Potential changes, but unlikely to be done:
    • Review of education system from the point of view of other religions: Orthodox, Islam -- I think the present system is more-or-less ok, but after I play with those factions, or after somebody would make good suggestions, specific triggers / other adjustments can be made.
    • Review of the Pagan_Edu – as above: I’ve had a look and I think it's ok, but I haven’t played the pagans, so it can be reviewed in the future. Please comment, if you see it fit.
    • Linking the Education levels with probabilities of getting other traits (eg. Usurpers with Advanced Administrative skills may behave differently than Usurpers with Military edu) - it should be done by those modyfing the other triggers.


    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; March 29, 2018 at 11:14 AM. Reason: some update

  5. #5
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (4)

    The list of the changes and rationale behind

    You will find here much of my thinking which led to the choices I made while making EOG minimod.

    I. Administrative Education

    The framework:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Benefits and thresholds of the Administrative Education

    • (1) Basic: SiegeEngineering 5, Trading 2, TaxCollection 5
    • (3) Standard (Bachelors of Arts): SiegeEngineering 5, Trading 5, TaxCollection 5, Mining 5, Construction 5, Loyalty -1
    • (10) Advanced: SiegeEngineering 5, Trading 10, TaxCollection 10, Mining 10, Construction 10, Loyalty -2, Law 2, BattleSurgery 5, Piety 2


    Administrative Inclination
    The impact of the "Administrative Minded" (or GovernorInclination, as it is coded) it is really marginal: there's just one instance where it matters to get a trait, otherwise only at adoptions/marriages, it has no impact whatsoever on the education process, neither during school age, nor after it. The result is, the Military Minded generals are equally good pupils for management of the cities as those Administratively minded (and they better learn to fight). Which goes against the very idea of the trait. Therefore making this inclination meaningful is one of the most important goals of the mod.

    Principles

    • Specialization: administrative education is mainly for ADMind, military is mainly for MilMind. Both can gain the other qualities but MilMind with much lower probabilities. (now: there’s no difference)
    • Standard education provided by universities: Schools provide basic education, while Universities standard education (now: in a city with School+Library all generals can get standard education very easy).
    • Access to Advanced Education: it should be available (but very rarely) also for non-Scholars if there’s the a university/studia_generalia (now: only the rare scholars can get advanced education)
    • Libraries make difference for ADMind and, especially, for Scholars.
    • Scholars are special: they learn quickly administrative tasks at any level (also lower) (now: they make difference only for Advanced education from university level).


    Proposed scheme:

    • Schools provide basic education for AdMind (with some chances of standard level), while probabilities for MilMind to get that education is very low;
    • Libraries make the chances of education for AdMind higher (=they learn faster), and provide them with some chances of getting standard education; for Scholars they make much difference: they usually get standard; for MilMind there’s no difference.
    • Universities is where standard education is meant for AdMind, while militarist can also learn something (basic for MilMind). Scholars can get Advanced Education.
    • Great Universities: provide standard education fast for AdMind, give them some chances for advanced education; make standard education available for MilMind (with much time spent learning), and make advanced education easy to get for Scholars (who can learn it after the school age, after all).


    How long should the Administrative Education last?
    The table with %% of generals who get the education level within some years. Pro memoria: the school age in SS lasts 8 years.

    Building................ Levels .............. ADMind..........................Scholar..........................MilMind.......
    School ....................Basic ...........100% in 4 years................100% in 2 years..........15% in 4 years...
    ..............................Standard................. x ..................................... x ..................................... x...............
    ..............................Advanced............... x ..................................... x ..................................... x...............
    ........................................................................ ........................ ........................................................
    School + Library.....Basic ........... 100% in 4 years ...............100% in 2 years .........15% in 4 years..
    ..............................Standard .........20% in 4 years .................100% in 4 years ...................x..............
    ..............................Advanced ................ x ..................................... x ................................... x...............
    ........................................................................ ........................ ........................................................
    University.............. Basic ..............100% in 2 years ................100% in 2 years .......100% in 4 years
    ..............................Standard...........100% in 4 years ................100% in 2 years ........15% in 4 years
    ..............................Advanced................ x ....................................50% in 4 years ................x........
    ........................................................................ ........................ ........................................................
    Great University ... Basic ..............100% in 2 years ................100% in 2 years ........100% in 4 years
    ..............................Standard ........100% in 2 years ................100% in 1 year ...........50% in 4 years
    ..............................Advanced .........20% in 4 years ................100% in 4 years ............ x..................
    ........................................................................ ........................ .........................................................

    The implementation:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    For the figures from the conceptual framework to be visible in-game, in the code the probabilities to get a point in education per turn during the school age are:

    Building..................... ADMind.........Scholar.........MilMind.....
    ........................................................................ ............
    School .........................12................15..............3......
    ........................................................................ ............
    School + Library............17................35...............3......
    ........................................................................ .................
    University.....................35................50..............15......
    ........................................................................ ...............
    Great University ............50............70..................20......
    ........................................................................ .................

    It means that in the EDCT file for each of three religions (catholic, islam, orthodox) there are now:

    • 4 set of triggers for gaining 1 point of AdmEdu for Administratively Minded (for: school, school+library, university, great_university) with percentages: 12, 17, 35, 50.
    • 4 set of triggers for gaining 1 point of AdmEdu for Scholars (as above), with percentages: 15, 35, 50, 70.
    • 3 set of triggers for gaining 1 point of AdmEdu for Militarily Minded (no difference for schooling for library), with percentages: 3, 15, 20.


    As a result 16 turns spent during the schoolage (WantSchool > 0) in a city with proper building(s) gives on average the following number of points in AdmEdu:

    • school: AdmMind 1.92; Scholar, 2.4; MilMind 0.48
    • school+library: AdmMind 2.72; Scholar, 5.6; MilMind 0.48
    • university: AdmMind 5.6; Scholar, 8; MilMind 2.4
    • great_university: AdmMind 8; Scholar, 11.2; MilMind 3.2

    Given the thresholds for the AdmEdu trait (Basic 1, Standard 3, Advanced 10), the in-game results should be in line with the conceptual table.

    In the code, the caps (lines like “and Trait Western_Edu < 1”) have been removed; the role of the caps is now played by probabilities. However, this has another effect: a player may choose to gamble and to leave a general in the settlement even if he had gotten the required level. First, there’s always a chance of getting higher level. Second, a general can gather some additional points during the schoolage, which may be useful if sometime in life he gets additional points due to the “After School Education” trigger (at the end of the section there’s a trigger which gives a general a 5% chance to gain points in AdmEdu after the schoolage (WantSchool <0).
    NB: the triggers are identical for each of the 3 religions (so: Western_Edu, Eastern_Edu, Greek_Edu)


    II. Military education

    System in the Stainless Steel:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    There’re four levels of the Mil_Edu with the point-thresholds and effects are as follows:

    • (1) Basic: 10% Movement
    • (2) Standard: Command 1, Loyalty 1, Movement 25% (and + 5 SiegeEngineering)
    • (5) Advanced: Command 2, Loyalty 1, Movement 40%, TroopMorale 1 (and +10 SiegeEngineering, +1 LineOfSight, +2 Comm at Ambushing)
    • (10) Master: Command 3, Loyalty -1, Movement 50%, TroopMorale 2 (and +15 SiegeEngineering, +2 LineOfSight, +3 Comm at Ambushing)


    There are three ways of getting “Military Education” trait:
    • winning battles – with MilMind it’s easier to get education;
    • learning at a Castle or Wooden Castle during the school age (no difference for MilMind and AdmMind).
    • finishing the military buildings both in the castles and the cities – for MilMind.

    There are also triggers for other (good and bad) traits from staying in the castles during the schoolage.

    In particular, in the EDCT section VIII: Education of the SSHIP:

    • 25% chance for 1 pt. from ending move in a Wooden castle for both MilMind and ADMind during whole education, which made the expected value of 4 points (it means: close to Advanced Military Edu);
    • 33% chance for 1 pt. from ending move in a Castle or higher for both MilMind and ADMind during whole education, which made the expected value of 5,3 points (i.e.: Advanced Military Edu), additionally: Logistical skills – I think it’s much redundant since Mil_Edu gives faster movement by itself.
    • A set of triggers for good traits if a young general with MilitEdu >0 ends his move in any settlement (not only castle, despite the name)
    • A set of triggers for bad traits if a young general with MilitEdu >0 ends his move in any settlement (not only castle, despite the name)
    • A set of triggers for good / bad cavalry/infantry commander if a young general with MilitEdu >0 ends his move in any settlement (not only castle, despite the name)

    Actually, I’d prefer all three sets to work only in the castles, since in the cities even the Military Educated young generals have other things to do; besides there’re many other triggers related to the cities.

    How does it look elsewhere in EDCT file (actually, it's in the section related to the battles):

    • The Military Inclination does benefit generals on the battlefield – it’s easier for them go get more stars or other traits than for the Administratively Minded (including the Good Commander trait);
    • The Military Inclination does not benefit generals on the battlefield in developing their Military Education.
    • You can get Military Education from building military buildings in the castles and the cities. However, some triggers from some buildings (those new in the SSHIP, I think) are lacking (e.g. Local Recruitment).

    I've made no changes to these triggers.

    Conceptual framework:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Reminder:
    • I don’t want to change anything outside the EDCT file section VIII (Education). It means I deal within the logic of the four thresholds, using the already existing traits.
    • Mil_Edu is identical for all three religions, so there’s less triggers overall. Pagan_Edu is different, it's a mixture of Military and Administrative education for the two pagan factions. I don't deal here with Pagan_Edu, also because I find it's logic quite compeling (with educatin "in the wilde". Maybe after playing a pagan faction I'll have ideas.


    Principles

    • Specialization: military education is mainly for MilMind, while AdMind can learn something – both at the battlefields, and also “their way”: in a Castle Library and at a Military Academy
    • Military matters are acquired mainly at the battlefields, there’s very little education without practice possible.
    • At an early age basics can be learned without battles even in the smaller castles, but further learning requires the experience of life in fortresses or citadels.
    • Practical skills must be complemented by learning at the education establishments, this can be achieved also later in life. As a result access to Advanced/Master Education should be through learning at the castle libraries/academies while having earlier battlefield experience; age should play lesser role. However, given that not all factions have access to the castle libraries/academies, learning simply at a fortress/citadel will have to be enough.
    • Personal teachers (fathers, mentors) are of particular importance at an early age.


    The proposed framework

    • Wooden Castle +
      • Basic education for MilMind during the schoolage.

    • Castle +
      • Standard education for MilMind during the schoolage.
      • Basic education for ADMind during the schoolage.

    • Fortress
      • faster Standard education for MilMind during the schoolage,
      • possibility of Advanced for MilMind during the schoolage with battlefield experience,
      • some speeding up of the career of MilMind already with Standard level (any age, with battlefield experience) to get Advanced education,
      • Standard education for ADMind during the schoolage with battlefield experience.

    • Citadel
      • Advanced education for MilMind during the schoolage with battlefield experience,
      • speeding up of the career of MilMind already with Standard level (any age, battlefield experience),
      • speeding up of the career of MilMind already with Advanced level (any age, with serious battlefield experience) to get Master education,
      • Standard education for ADMind during the schoolage,
      • Possibility for ADMind (serious battlefield experience, any age) to get Advanced education.



    The benefits will stack (it’s what I mean by “+” sign), so starting your education at a WoodenCastle will be similarly beneficial for Military Education as starting at a Citadel, but as a general gets to the higher level of education, he will have to get to a bigger military establishment.

    Bear in mind that generals can always get their Military education just by fighting the battles. Since this would require a number of battles and much luck, learning later in the their career in a Citadel should be attractive for them.

    The impact of a skilled father is felt through Coming of Age triggers, so we may abstain from introducing a new trigger for education. However, there’s at least one interesting ancillary – the Mentor (15% chances of acquiring it at Coming of Age if the father has >2 authority). It gives +1 Command, but it could be used in the educational triggers as well. But it's a possible avenue of the future modifications, it'd required changed in the other files.

    Modifications
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Besides the principles mentioned in the previous post, I make the following distinction: for MilMinded the benefits come from ending the move in the settlement, while for ADMind they come from spending the whole move in the settlement (it’s analogical to their way of learning Adm_Edu).

    I’ve used the following traits for triggers:

    • For battle experience: Promising Commander (i.e. GoodCommander=1, comparatively easy to get)
    • For serious battle experience: Great Victor (gained after: BattleSuccess = crushing, PercentageEnemyKilled > 50, BattleOdds < 1), and alternatively Renown Victor (after BattleSuccess; BattleOdds < 2.5, NumFriendsInBattle > 750, but requiring a few battles won, since it has a threshold of 6).


    The player will know when a general is ripe for education since all the three traits are be visible as the general’s traits.

    I’ve translated the principles into the code in the following manner:

    • Wooden Castle
      • Basic education (only) in 2 years for MilMind during the schoolage ending move here (== probability 25% of getting 1 point a turn, there’s a cap of 1 point Mil_Edu)

    • Castle
      • Standard education in 4 years for MilMind during the schoolage ending move here (with very remote possibility of getting even Advanced) (== probability 25% of getting 1 point)
      • Basic education in 5 years for ADMind during the schoolage spending turn here, very low probability of getting Standard Education (== probability 10% of getting 1 point a turn);

    • Fortress
      • Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders during the schoolage ending move here (in 6,5 years) (== probability 40% of getting 1 point a turn)
      • Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders after the schoolage ending move here (10 years from zero to Advanced, but usually less if the general already gathered some points) (== probability 25% of getting 1 point a turn)
      • Standard education in 5 years for ADMind Promising Commanders during the schoolage spending turn here (== probability 20% of getting 1 point a turn)

    • Citadel
      • faster Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders during the schoolage ending move here (5 years from zero to Advanced, but usually less if the general already gathered some points) (== probability 50% of getting 1 point a turn)
      • faster Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders after the schoolage ending move here (7 years from zero to Advanced, but usually less if the general already gathered some points) (== probability 35% of getting 1 point a turn)
      • possibility to move up to the Master level for MilMind with serious battlefield experience after the schoolage (== probability 20% of getting 1 point a turn, but 40% if is both a RenownVictor and a GreatVictor)
      • possibility to move up to the Advanced level for ADMind with serious battlefield experience after the schoolage (== probability 20% of getting 1 point a turn, but 40% if is both a RenownVictor and a GreatVictor)



    Building..................... MilMind..............MilMindOlder.............ADMind..........ADMindOlder....
    .........................................................................................................................................
    WoodenCastle ............... 25 (cap) ....................................................................................
    ..........................................................................................................................................
    Castle.............................. 25 ................................................. 10 .....................................
    ...........................................................................................................................................
    Fortress.........................25+15*................25*...................... 10+10*................................
    ............................................................................................................................................
    Citated..........................25+25*...........35*+20#+20#......... 10+10* ......20#+20# (cap)...
    ............................................................................................................................................
    * - Promising Commander
    # - Victor

    Other changes:

    • 5% possibility of gaining LogisticalSkill has been removed (Military_Edu contains +Move benefit, so why it should be)
    • The three sets of triggers work only in the castles.


    A. The after-school Mil_Edu is now possible only up to the age of 40, the Adm_Edu up to 50 (well, older generals were not susceptible to the new ideas, weren’t they). Scholars are less affected – they can learn even in the old age, even if with slightly lower efficiency.
    .
    B. In my Polish campaign almost all my young generals got drunk. As I’d noticed in the code, this was due to the fact that actually two triggers related to the young age generals fired: one for starting Mil_Edu and one for starting Adm_Edu. Given that the education was ongoing for everybody on both paths, everyone could drink for two. And these triggers are very high (8%, which meant 16% a turn to get that trait, it’s like second education…), and they fire irrespectively of what they were doing (sitting in the woods?). I have modified these triggers so that only one trigger will fire at a time: for Mil_Edu if a general is in a castle, Adm_Edu if a general is in a city.

    Furthermore, I have reviewed those traits and I’ve

    • removed possibility of gaining GoodCommander (NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 3) since it should be gained through battles and the Mil_Edu already provides +Command;
    • lowered the probability to get Bad(Cavalry and Infantry)Commander – what’s the point of going to school if the likehood to become Bad and Good Commander is the same?
    • for Adm_Edu secondary traits introduced the requirement for spending the whole turn to get them (just to fulfill the logic: Mil_Edu you need to end the move in the settlement, for Adm_Edu you have to spend the whole turn).
    • I hesitated a lot if the probabilities for Drink/Girls/Rubblerouser should not be lowered, given that now it’s almost certain to be Drunk after education (if you spend 16 turns in a city you get 128% chance to get a point), but I decided not to change it. This to be checked in practice and also checked with the other triggers for these traits.
    • However, given that life in a small castle provides less possibilities for Girls, I made these bad secondary traits available only from Castle+.


    Actually, at one point in the future, the description of the Promising Commander, Great Victor and Renown Victor may be updated with the word “He can now further his Military Education at a Castle or a Citadel”.


    III. Guilds and education

    Issues
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    1) There's just one moment in life of a general when he can benefit from a guild building present in the settlement he's getting education in (line: "Trait Wantschool = 1"). So a player has to be attentive to put a general exactly at the age of 21 to a city with a guild.
    2) Only the Master level of guilds is beneficial, the "normal" levels make no difference for education.
    3) The impact of guilds is negligible - during the whole schoolage there's a 20%/10% chance of getting 1 point in a trait.
    4) Guilds provide benefits only in the cities, not in the castles (line: ">= school").
    5) It's just "meeting the guild" (EndedInSettlement), not spending the whole turn and learning their dealings.
    6) Some guilds provide useful modifications (Merchants', Masons'), some rather useles (Thieves, Horsebreeders, extreme case: Assassins').
    7) For Military minded generals the work of some guilds (Horsebreeders, Swordsmiths, Archers) is directly linked to their education - they should have a bigger impact. (conversely, for Administratively minded generals the work of the guilds is not directly related with their skills so the impact should be lower).
    8) In the middle ages a general managing a settlement with a Master's guild was likely to learn something also after the schoolage (he constatantly dealt with the guild matters, didn't he?). Of course, he was less receptive, but still it should be felt somehow.

    Modifications
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    1) I'v spread the probability of getting a trait throughout whole education. Now every turn during the shooling age (first 16 turns) in a city with Master_guild there's 2% probability of getting a point in the possitive effect and 1% probabilty of getting a point in the negative trait (before one time 20%/10% probability).
    1a) In two cases I've swaped probabilities for bonuses in the following manner:
    - Masons: one time (GoodBuilder 3 Chance 20) -> into 16turns of: (GoodBuilder 1 Chance 6)
    - Merchants and Hansa: one time (GoodTrader 12 Chance 2) -> into 16turns (GoodTrader 1 Chance 24)

    2) Additionally to the triggers for Master_guild I added also triggers for lower levels of guilds with probabilities halved ("RandomPercent > 50").

    3) As a result, the cumulative effects (if a character spends all 16 turns in the settlement with the guild building) of getting a point in a trait are:
    - for Masters 48% and 24% (slightly higher than before: it was 20% and 10%, one time; the exception: for the Theologians guild it was 25% and 15%);
    - for normal: 16% and 8%.

    4) I have made the relevant guilds (Masons', Swordsmiths', Archers', Horse Breeders', Hanseatic) available in the castles.

    5) I've required the generals to spend the whole turn in a settlement (RemainingMPPercentage = 100) to get the benefits (exceptions: Explorers, Hansa - no such requirement).

    6) I've added benefits for the guilds that are inferior from the point of view of education:
    - Explorers: GoodTrader 1 Chance 2
    - HorseBreeders: HorseRacer 1 Chance 1
    - Theologians: Prim 1 Chance 1
    - Thieves: Gregarious 1 Chance 1
    - Archers: NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 2
    - Assassins: Brave 1 Chance 1

    7)I added 6% chance a turn that Master: Horsebreeders', Swordsmiths' and Archers' guilds give a point in Military_edu for Military minded general if he stays the whole turn in the settlement during his schoolage and has little military education (it's capped at 2 points of Military_edu, so guilds can provide only very basic education). A a comparatively high chance of 6% is set because spending a whole turn in a settlement during his schoolage is rather unlikely (unwise?) for a Military minded general.

    8) I've added a trigger for after school age learning: every whole turn spent in a city with Master guild gives 1% probability of getting a point in the possitive effect and 0,5% probabilty of getting a point in the negative trait.

    9) I've added names of guilds in the headlines in the file (no impact for gameplay, just for an easier look through the EDCT).
    /note that Hansa is one-level guild and in all cases a normal guild functions like a Master one/


    IV. Other triggers

    Issues
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    1. There's an error in the lenght of the schooling process: - there're now 15 turns of schooling, not 16. This is because the Edu_timer subtracts 1 from the starting 16 immediately, before getting the traits. I think the idea of the SS creators was 16 (in the file there's the trait Level Kindergarten 16) so I think it's an oversight.
    2. As I have already mentioned, a Scholar is somebody without military inclination. It bothered me when I saw a combination MilMind-Scholar in my game, besides it's useless for gameplay.
    3. There's a bug concerning the Inspiring Teacher trait (a general gets it immediately, not after having a Great Academic 5 years, as intended).
    4. The generals offered for marriages and adoptions have little education and they have no chance of education (no “WantSchool” trait). Scholars are also very rare while among those adopted, I think they should appear more frequently (if you adopt somebody it's for his extraordinary skills, isn't? On the other hand, you don’t choose your kids).
    5. The way of after-school learning for the Scholars is quite deterministic (odds at 50%), while they should develop more erratically.
    6. Sitting in the city with Studia Generale or castle with Military_Academy should teach something a general even after he is 22 years old. Furthermore, the benefits from a library in a castle are currently little. Or the very act of managing any settlement does not further the education (as it shold be). All in all, I think a few more triggers could be added.
    7. Very old generals can be very efficient administrators and very fast moving due to the benefits of education. Even those with Alzheimer (trait Senile). I think in the old age they should loose (some) of their abilities.

    Modifications
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    1. I've moved some triggers to other places in the section to make their place more logical, and I've done some fixing:
      • Trigger Start_edu_count is set 17. Given that Edu_timer fires just after, it will de facto start from 16, what makes it working as intended;
      • Medical_Skill_Edu moved from the middle to the end since it's life-long learning;
      • Guild triggers are now at the very end, it's a long section;
      • all the section have clear headings so that one can easily got his bearings while modding.

    2. I've added "not Trait MilitaryInclination = 1" as a requirement of the Scholar birth, but doubled the probabilities of getting this trait for administratively minded generals (at birth). The probability of such birth for most of the factions is now slightly more than 6%.
    3. The bug concerning the Inspiring Teacher trait has been fixed cost-efficiently (by adding threshold 10 instead of 1) (even if not perfectly: theoretically, the father can have an Inspiring Teacher in his young age, then lose him, but the trait will already be high (say 20), and will go down to 10 when the son CoA, but in fact he had no teacher in his childhood - well, that's very unlikely and we can say that there're disciples of the Great Academic, after all).
    4. Marriage and Adoption changes:
      • Scholar can be only AdmMind, lower chance of getting one at adoption (6% because only 60% of Govts are AdmMind, was 10%; for the Pagans it’s even lower), but added possibility that the general for marriage is a Scholar - as a result the occurence of Scholars stays the same.
      • More chances for getting an educated general at adoption (12,5% for StdAd for the three religions, pagans get minimal higher odds as well) .

    5. Scholars changes:
      • his trigger now concerns indeed “After School Education”, not during school;
      • slightly slower pace of learning (each turn in a city with university 10%, additional 10% learning from Great Library - before it was 50% just from university);
      • to get Advanced Admin education after the schooling age, he has to work at the university (previously it was school+library);
      • he can learn even in the old age (no "50year-old" cap for him), even if he is not spared from Alzheimer and other old-age deteriorations of mind.

    6. I've added triggers for after-school training:
      • “Sitting_Around_Castle_Education” - same trait existed for cities with School+Library, but not for a castle: now it's does;
      • separated benefits from School from that of Library - just to make schools more attractive, it’s a very minor change;
      • “On-The-Job Training” - if a general successfully (people are happy) manages any settlement for at least 2 years, it has a 1% chance of getting one point in Adm_Edu (Inclination doesn’t matter).
      • “Medical_Training” - a general can get it if stays whole turn in a city with the highest level of university (very low probability: 2%; the other trigger for this trait which existed in the file is bimaristan" 10%) - even with the ignorance of the West concerning medical studies, it's legitimate to give such a chance, I think.
      • “Poet” - a general can get it if stays whole turn in a city with Great Library and he can get it from the castle with Castle Library and Academy as well (both cases very low probability: 2%; two other triggers which existed in the file are Troubadur event for the king, and finishing building Library+ for the generals) - I think it's legitimate given that poetry florished in the biggest castles and greatest cities.

    7. 60year-old generals have chance to lose their education (20% chance to lose a point in Adm_Edu, 30% Mil_Edu), and those with Senile are losing it fast (100% chance to lose 2 points a turn).

    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; October 30, 2016 at 03:20 AM. Reason: Some polishing.

  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (5)

    reserved just in case

  7. #7
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (6)

    Wise Men assist generals in learning

    I’m looking into cost-efficient ideas of the changes in education. I mean – I don’t want to either create new ancillaries (pictures, entries in the different files etc.), or new traits. I just want to use the existing ones. I would like also to make more use of them.

    The problem with ancillaries is that you cannot make conditions in the triggers directly dependent on a particular ancillary. You can put only a condition “HasAncType”. Furthermore, reportedly, the condition FatherAnc doesn’t work, while FatherTrait and FatherAttribute do work.
    So if one does not want to create a new type, one should use the existing in an innovative way.

    The idea is as follows:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    There’s a trait called “Inspiring Teacher”. It’s acquired if a general has a Great Academic ancillary for 10 turns. [In the code: “HasAncType GreatAcademic … Affects AncillaryTeacher 1 Chance 100” and the Threshold for the trait is 10.]
    The Great Academics are usually historical great people (Maimonides, Copernicus, Abelard, Petrarca etc.), they are available in the particular moments. They are not transferable so they die with the death of the general. I think that they may re-emerge, but it may be only in a short span of time.

    There is also one generic Great Academic: “brilliant_inventor”, which is transferable.

    There are three ancillaries which I want to make use of for teaching.

    • Mentor gives +1Command, and is non-transferable (acquired at CoA at 15% if FatherAttribute Authority >= 2)
    • Tutor gives +5Tax, +1Piety, and is transferable (acquired at CoA at 33% if Ignorance <= 1)
    • Academic Advisor gives +5% Tax and +5% Trade, and is transferable (acquired with 33% after SettlementBuildingFinished >= library)


    I would like to use each of them to a different purpose:

    • Mentor: joins the MilMind general at CoA to make it easier gaining Mil_Edu, especially at young age (WantSchool>0).
    • Tutor: joins the AdmMind general at CoA to make it easiergaining Adm_edu (West_Edu, East_Edu, Greek_Edu), especially at young age (WantSchool>0).
    • Academic Advisor, joins a general at a university+ or after having built a library+ building to make it easier gaining Adm_edu (West_Edu, East_Edu, Greek_Edu), especially at young age (WantSchool>0).

    All will be non-transferable, but they will later provide their sons with Mentors/Tutors at their CoA.


    The plan for the changes:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    • change type of the ancillaries Tutor, Mentor and Academic Advisor into “GreatAcademic”
    • make Tutor and Academic Advisor non-transferable
    • change “brilliant_inventor” into “Academic” (he remains transferable)
    • I don’t want to change benefits of the ancillaries, they are ok and the positive effect for education process is an additional one. The Brilliant Inventor is powerful enough.
    • create triggers for getting Tutor and Mentor as ancillaries:
      • FatherTrait = InspiringTeacher; then conditions:
        • MilMind – gets a Mentor
        • AdmMind – gets a Tutor
        • one may also add additional conditions, like FatherAttribute Command >5 (for Mentor) and FatherAttribute Piety >5 (for Tutor)

      • there’ll be no possibility of getting Mentor/Tutor without father’s „InspiringTeacher”, but if the education buildings exists in the settlement where CoA occurs (Castle_Library, Iconic_Studio etc.) then it will be possible to get “Academic Advisor”, who will provide his sons with Mentor/Tutor

    • create trigger for getting Academic Advisor – related to educational buildings, but no relation to MilMind/AdmMind
    • create additional triggers with conditions “hasAncType GreatAcademic” and “WantSchool” and “Inclination” which make Academic Education process easier for generals having them
    • Change descriptions in the file “export_ancillaries” for
      • Mentor
      • Tutor
      • Academic Advisor


    Disputable situations:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    • A young general Mil_Mind acquires a unique Great Academic (say “Maimonides”) while he’s still young (WantSchool>0). He gets the trait InspiringTeacher and it’s easier for him to learn Mil_Edu. The relation-to-reality problem: the GreatAcademic doesn’t know anything about fighting but still he teaches the general military things. My answers: 1. The influence of a GA is more through the attitude of a youngster: they show that’s better to learn anything, 2. Actually, any GA has disciples and friends with him, and they teach the youngster military matters; 3. utterly rare situation (GA are very rare, the time-span for this argument to work is very short: only 8 years).
    • Father has a Tutor, which gives him the trait “InspiringTeacher”, which makes his Mil_Mind son to acquire a Mentor. The relation-to-reality problem: why a Tutor gives a Mentor? My answer: the influence of a GA is more through the attitude of a youngster: they show that’s better to learn anything.
    • Tutors and Mentors will stay in all generations if a general gets one or any Great Academic. This is because sons will also have a trait “inspiring teacher”, so the grandsons will inevitably get also Tutors and Mentors, and so on. The problem: there’ll too big spread of the ancillaries. My answers: 1. there will be still limited number of generals with T/M (not all generals have children and daughters don’t transmit these ancillaries), 2. it’s ok since this is the benefit of having great generals among the ancestors.


    For the moment I have one problem, which seems to be also a more general one. If the father is not in a settlement when a child Comes of Age, then these children CoA in the capital. The triggers related to the buildings of CoA will fire. Therefore effectively, only buildings in the capitals matter – a general far-away from the capital will leave a settlement (say, into the wilde), and his child will CoA at the capital. Hmm.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; September 30, 2016 at 05:07 AM.

  8. #8
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (7)

    Inspiring Teacher coming from the Crown


    • Getting the Crown of .. (HRE, England, Turks) means that the king has a great court with many wise people from different parts of his kingdom employed. Among them teachers and tutors for his children are present, for sure.
    • In-game:
      • The trait “Inspiring Teacher” is actually difficult to get. To this end, a general has to acquire a Great Academic, and have him for 10 turns. Very rare.
      • Ancillary “Crown_of_something” will trigger the same effect as a Great Academic: give more education at Coming of Age and/or (if implemented) give the ancillary Tutor/Mentor.

    • A trigger in EDCT:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    ;------ father has a Crown at least 5 years -------
    Trigger Inspiring_teacher
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition IsGeneral
    and HasAncType Crown

    Affects AncillaryTeacher 1 Chance 100


    We may also change the current description in the “export_ancillaries”
    -------- from:
    {Inspiring_Teacher_desc}This man has acquired an academic tutor who will not only aid him, but also any children he has.
    {Inspiring_Teacher_effects_desc}Increase in education
    {Inspiring_Teacher}Academic Teacher
    -------- Into:
    {Inspiring_Teacher_desc}This man has acquired a gifted tutor who will teach his children many things.
    {Inspiring_Teacher_effects_desc}Increase in education of sons
    {Inspiring_Teacher}Has a Teacher for Sons
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; September 30, 2016 at 04:22 AM.

  9. #9
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (8)

    Health triggers

    One of the issues with the current education-triggers-system is that it can only move up, not down. I would like the generals also lose education points. Well, if you something happens to your health, your education doesn’t have similar effects as before.
    So I’ll link education to the health conditions, both stemming from illnesses and from old-age.

    Brain injury: After a general is seriously wounded in battle, he has a chance to have a brain injury which means he forgets things (in game: loses 1 point in education with 10% chances)

    Illness complications: When a general is seriously ill, he has a chance to have complications which means he forgets things or gets bad habits (in game: he loses 1 points in education with 2% chances)

    Old age consequencess: if a person gets old and physically and mentally unfit, he begins to forget things (ingame: if Beyond Battle started - 10% for losing a point in Military Education; if Senile - 10% of losing a point in any education).

    Triggers were already present in the first version of this minimod, but now they're tweaked a bit: lower triggers, Senile consequences start from the 2nd level, no-age-related triggers - only Senile and Beyond Battle.
    For Senile description there'll be a warning in the EV file: “He may also forget some things he learnt in his youth." and "risk of losing education benefits", and for BeyondBattles "He is also likely to forget things he learnt in his military career." as below,

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    ;======  Loss of Education due to Health ==========
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger BrainInjury_Worsens_Education
     WhenToTest PostBattle
    
     Condition IsGeneral
           and Trait SeverelyWounded > 0
    
     Affects Military_Edu -2 Chance 30
     Affects Pagan_Edu -2 Chance 30
     Affects Western_Edu -2 Chance 30
     Affects Eastern_Edu -2 Chance 30
     Affects Greek_Edu -2 Chance 30 
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger Disease_Worsen_Education
     WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    
     Condition IsGeneral
           and Trait Diseased > 1
    
     Affects Military_Edu -1 Chance 2
     Affects Pagan_Edu -1 Chance 2
     Affects Western_Edu -1 Chance 2
     Affects Eastern_Edu -1 Chance 2
     Affects Greek_Edu -1 Chance 2 
    
    ;--------------------------------------------
    Trigger Senile_Education_Old_Age_loss
     WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    
     Condition IsGeneral
           and Trait Senile > 1
    
     Affects Military_Edu -1 Chance 10
     Affects Pagan_Edu -1 Chance 10
     Affects Western_Edu -1 Chance 10
     Affects Eastern_Edu -1 Chance 10
     Affects Greek_Edu -1 Chance 10
    
    ;--------------------------------------------
    Trigger BeyondBattle_Old_Age_loss
     WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    
     Condition IsGeneral
           and Trait TooOldToFight > 0
    
     Affects Military_Edu -1 Chance 10
    Code:
    {Senile_desc}This man has clearly become senile. He is often incapable of keeping his mind on matters at hand and may also forget some things he learnt in his youth.
    {Senile_effects_desc}-3 Command, -2 Authority, 10% penalty on tax income, -2 from law (reduces public order), -4 to movement points (decreases movement range), risk of losing education benefits
    {Senile}Senile
    
    {Totally_Senile_desc}This man's mental degeneration is complete. His moments of coherency are fleeting and he forgets things he learnt in his youth.
    {Totally_Senile_effects_desc}-6 Command, -3 Authority, 15% penalty on tax income, -4 from law (reduces public order), -6 to movement points (decreases movement range), risk of losing education benefits
    {Totally_Senile}Totally Senile
    
    {Beyond_Battle_desc}This man is no longer physically capable of taking the field of battle any longer. He is also likely to forget things he learnt in his military career.
    {Beyond_Battle_effects_desc}-1 Command, -4 from general's hit points, -3 from movement points (decreases movement range), -1 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, risk of losing military education benefits
    {Beyond_Battle}Beyond Battle
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; November 10, 2016 at 01:40 AM.

  10. #10
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2 (9)

    Buildings’ triggers

    There’re educational buildings which should impact on education, but currently don’t have such impacts. In this entry I’ll develop and describe the triggers related to them.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; October 22, 2016 at 07:16 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Jurand this minimod will be compatible with the next release of sship? You could talk with MWY or Lifth for they include your minimod for the next release and enjoy for us
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT NOW,
    THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE!!!



    Sign the petition to remove hardcoded limits for M2TW

  12. #12
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Quote Originally Posted by j.a.luna View Post
    Jurand this minimod will be compatible with the next release of sship? You could talk with MWY or Lifth for they include your minimod for the next release and enjoy for us
    Well, until now it changes only one section of the EDCT file. As I don't see the reason for anyone to modify this section but changing the educational system, it's just cut-and-paste.
    The extension with the Crowns and Health triggers will also be easy to accomodate.
    The extension with Tutor/Mentor will change very little in 2 other files. I still need to make the triggers and texts.
    Basically, I think it's very easy to include if MWY and Lifthrasir would see it fit.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; October 04, 2016 at 03:44 AM.

  13. #13
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    My experience with with the EOG ver. 1 after having played some weeks with it:
    - there’s indeed specialization: very few generals gain both Military and Administrative education. Majority of them stay on one path. One exception was when an Adm_Mind general gained Military_Edu due to the battles he fought (there're such triggers. That's legitimate, they guy has proven himself a good commander despite his inclination so he can move up Mil_Edu). The other exception was when a general had studied at a university, got a BA, then went to a castle and managed to get a level in Mil_Mind (he had 10% chance) while he was still at schoolage. The valuable benefit for him is the +Move.
    - the old generals lose their education very quickly: already in their 60ties. Given that a few live past 80ty, this renders them much less useful. This is a good effect, an equivalent to the "Beyond Battle" trait, but happens too quickly. (BTW, I think Beyond Battle should have even more -HP value, or the HP benefits from other sources should be lowered, like +4HP of Fine Armour).
    - the names of the educational levels are generic but a few: Standard Western Administrative Education is called “Bachelors of Arts”, Advanced Western Administrative Education: Masters Degree, Master Military Education: Master Strategist. It would be in the spirit of the game to give them some “flavor” and more cohesion.
    - the descriptions of the benefits are barely legible - there're so many benefits of education that the SS elaborate text for each benefit [like "10% bonus on all trade income" or "+1 to law (improves public order)] makes it difficult to the player to get orientation in the trait. It's better to put "+10% tax", "+1 law". Also some graphical manouvering, eg. putting a bar between description and benefits.
    - the existing benefits for the educational levels should be adjusted, both for the historical reasons and also for the gameplay (eg too big movement benefits in the original SS Military_Education);
    - benefits between the different faiths are not really balanced - there're some traits much more useful, and some less.

    So these are the resons for making modifications for this minimod. They are as follows
    • Change of the names of levels to provide more immersion.
    • Adjustment of the benefits to make them more reasonable, balance between cultures and give flavour of their differencies.
    • Lower values for losing education in the old age - see here. As a result the generals will retain (part) of education until their 70ties so they will be useful for management longer.




    Names and descriptions of the educational levels
    /WIP - not in the file version 1, but check my other submods, might be already included there/

    Military_Edu (I hope they'll be easy to associate for the players, they convey the information, and I think they're pertinent to the subject):
    Basic Military Education: Trained Soldier
    Standard Military Education: Trained Officer
    Advanced Military Education: Trained General
    Master Military Education: Trained Commander-in-Chief

    Western_Edu (whole catholic Europe used Latin, so the latin terms are used):
    Basic Administrative Education: Baccalaureus Artium
    Standard Administrative Education: Magister Artium
    Advanced Administrative Education: Doctor Philosophiae

    Eastern_Edu (compromises needed as the system was very different):
    Basic Administrative Education: Hafiz
    Standard Administrative Education: Faqih
    Advanced Administrative Education: Mujtahid

    Greek_Edu (according to information gathered here).
    Basic Administrative Education: Apophoitos
    Standard Administrative Education: Maistor
    Advanced Administrative Education: Didaskalos

    Pagan_Edu: no ideas yet. Please tell me if you have some.

    Code in the EA file
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Old names and descriptions in SS/SSHIP
    Code:
    {Basic_Eastern_Ed_desc}Has studied at a school and grasped a understanding of secular knowledge.
    {Basic_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc}+1 Piety, +5 siege equipment build points, 5% bonus on tax income, +1 to popularity (improves public order)
    {Basic_Eastern_Ed}Basic Eastern Education
    {Basic_Greek_Ed_desc}Has studied at a school and grasped an understanding of liberal arts.
    {Basic_Greek_Ed_effects_desc}+5 siege equipment build points, 2% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income, +1 to law (improves public order)
    {Basic_Greek_Ed}Basic Orthodox Education
    {Basic_Military_Ed_desc}This person has served as a squire and gained a basic understanding of military matters.
    {Basic_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+2 to movement points (increases movement range)
    {Basic_Military_Ed}Basic Military Education
    {Basic_Pagan_Ed_desc}This person has served as a warrior and gained a basic understanding of Pagan matters.
    {Basic_Pagan_Ed_effects_desc}+2 to movement points (increases movement range), +1 to sight range
    {Basic_Pagan_Ed}Basic Pagan Education
    {Basic_Western_Ed_desc}Has studied at a school and grasped an understanding of liberal arts.
    {Basic_Western_Ed_effects_desc}+5 siege equipment build points, 2% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income
    {Basic_Western_Ed}Basic Western Education
    
    {Standard_Eastern_Ed_desc}Has studied at a University and gained an understanding of both secular and religious knowledge, for as the prophet said, "Attainment of knowledge is a must for every Muslim."
    {Standard_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc}+2 Piety, +5 siege equipment build points, 1% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income, 5% decrease in construction costs, 5% bonus on mining income, +1 to popularity (improves public order)
    {Standard_Eastern_Ed}Bachelor of Arts
    {Standard_Greek_Ed_desc}Has studied at a University and gained an understanding of the liberal arts, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, music theory, grammar, logic, and rhetoric.
    {Standard_Greek_Ed_effects_desc}+5 siege equipment build points, 5% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income, 5% decrease in construction costs, 5% bonus on mining income, +1 to law (improves public order)
    {Standard_Greek_Ed}Bachelor of Arts
    {Standard_Military_Ed_desc}This person has gained a firm understanding of military matters.
    {Standard_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+1 Command, +1 Loyalty, +5 to movement points (increases movement range), +5 siege equipment build points
    {Standard_Military_Ed}Standard Military Education
    {Standard_Pagan_Ed_desc}This person has been gained a firm understanding of Pagan military matters.
    {Standard_Pagan_Ed_effects_desc}+1 Command, +1 Loyalty, +1 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +5 to movement points (increases movement range), +1 to sight range, +1 Command when ambushing
    {Standard_Pagan_Ed}Standard Pagan Education
    {Standard_Western_Ed_desc}Has studied at a University and gained an understanding of the liberal arts, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, music theory, grammar, logic, and rhetoric.
    {Standard_Western_Ed_effects_desc}-1 Loyalty, +5 siege equipment build points, 5% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income, 5% decrease in construction costs, 5% bonus on mining income
    {Standard_Western_Ed}Bachelor of Arts
    
    {Advanced_Eastern_Ed_desc}Has spent may years studying at a Studium Generale to obtain a master's degree, gaining a knowledge of law, medicine and theology.
    {Advanced_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc}+3 Piety, -1 Loyalty, +5 siege equipment build points, 5% bonus on all trade income, 10% bonus on tax income, 10% decrease in construction costs, 10% bonus on mining income, +2 to popularity (improves public order), +2 to law (improves public order)
    {Advanced_Eastern_Ed}Master's Degree
    {Advanced_Greek_Ed_desc}Has spent may years studying at a Studium Generale to obtain a master's degree, gaining a knowledge of law, medicine and philosophy.
    {Advanced_Greek_Ed_effects_desc}+1 Piety, +5 siege equipment build points, 10% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income, 10% decrease in construction costs, 5% bonus on mining income, +2 to law (improves public order), increased battlefield casualties recovery chances
    {Advanced_Greek_Ed}Master's Degree
    {Advanced_Military_Ed_desc}This person has received advanced training on military tactics and strategy.
    {Advanced_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+2 Command, +1 Loyalty, +1 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +8 to movement points (increases movement range), +1 to sight range, +2 Command when ambushing, +10 siege equipment build points
    {Advanced_Military_Ed}Advanced Military Education
    {Advanced_Pagan_Ed_desc}This person has received advanced training on Pagan tactics and strategy.
    {Advanced_Pagan_Ed_effects_desc}+2 Command, +1 Loyalty, +1 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +8 to movement points (increases movement range), +2 to sight range, +2 Command when ambushing, 5% bonus on tax income, +1 to law (improves public order)
    {Advanced_Pagan_Ed}Advanced Pagan Education
    {Advanced_Western_Ed_desc}Has spent may years studying at a Studium Generale to obtain a master's degree, gaining a knowledge of law, medicine and theology.
    {Advanced_Western_Ed_effects_desc}+2 Piety, -2 Loyalty, +5 siege equipment build points, 10% bonus on all trade income, 10% bonus on tax income, 10% decrease in construction costs, 10% bonus on mining income, +2 to law (improves public order), increased battlefield casualties recovery
    {Advanced_Western_Ed}Masters Degree
    
    {Master_Military_Ed_desc}This person has studied and grasped all there is to know about military matters.
    {Master_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+3 Command, -1 Loyalty, +2 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +10 to movement points (increases movement range), +3 to sight range, +3 Command when ambushing, +15 siege equipment build points
    {Master_Military_Ed}Master Strategist
    Names and descriptions I'm going to implement (WIP - didn't look at the Greek and Pagan yet)
    Code:
    {Basic_Eastern_Ed_desc}He has learnt at a maktab school and learnt Qu'aran by heart, getting pious but also grasping the basic ideas of management.
    {Basic_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc}+5% tax, +1 Piety, +1 popularity, small bonus on siege equipment build
    {Basic_Eastern_Ed}Hafiz
    {Basic_Greek_Ed_desc}He has studied at a school and grasped an understanding of liberal arts.
    {Basic_Greek_Ed_effects_desc}+5% tax, +2% trade, +1 law, small bonus on siege equipment build
    {Basic_Greek_Ed}Apophoitos
    {Basic_Military_Ed_desc}He has served as a squire and gained a basic understanding of military matters.
    {Basic_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+2 to movement points
    {Basic_Military_Ed}Trained Soldier
    {Basic_Pagan_Ed_desc}This person has served as a warrior and gained a basic understanding of Pagan matters.
    {Basic_Pagan_Ed_effects_desc}+2 to movement points (increases movement range), +1 to sight range
    {Basic_Pagan_Ed}Basic Pagan Education
    {Basic_Western_Ed_desc}He has spent some time at school, read Holy Bible and was told many things by the teachers. He can now manage the provinces better.
    {Basic_Western_Ed_effects_desc}+5% tax, +2% trade, +1 law, +1 Piety, bonus on siege equipment build
    {Basic_Western_Ed}Baccalaureus Artium
    
    {Standard_Eastern_Ed_desc}He has studied ijtihad at a madhhab school and gained an understanding of both secular and religious matters, following what the Prophet said: "Attainment of knowledge is a must for every muslim." He is an outstanding jurist who can manage efficiently the provinces, even if he can be at times defiant to the rulers.
    {Standard_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc}5% bonus on tax income, 1% bonus on trade income, 5% bonus on mining income, 5% decrease in construction costs, +2 farming output, +2 Piety, -1 Loyalty, +1 to popularity (improves public order), +1 law (improves public order and lowers corruption), +5 siege equipment build points
    {Standard_Eastern_Ed}Faqih
    {Standard_Greek_Ed_desc}Has studied at a university and gained an understanding of the liberal arts, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, music theory, grammar, logic, and rhetoric.
    {Standard_Greek_Ed_effects_desc}+5 siege equipment build points, 5% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income, 5% decrease in construction costs, 5% bonus on mining income, +1 to law (improves public order)
    {Standard_Greek_Ed}Maistor
    {Standard_Military_Ed_desc}He has gained a firm understanding of military matters and can command soldiers better. He also has gained more confidence in his superiors.
    {Standard_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+1 Command, +4 to movement points, +5 siege equipment build points, +1 Loyalty
    {Standard_Military_Ed}Trained Officer
    {Standard_Pagan_Ed_desc}This person has been gained a firm understanding of Pagan military matters.
    {Standard_Pagan_Ed_effects_desc}+1 Command, +1 Loyalty, +1 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +5 to movement points (increases movement range), +1 to sight range, +1 Command when ambushing
    {Standard_Pagan_Ed}Standard Pagan Education
    {Standard_Western_Ed_desc}He has studied at university the liberal arts: arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, music theory, grammar, logic, and rhetoric. He sees the world differently now and is more efficient at managing economy, even if he is slightly less loyal to his ruler.
    {Standard_Western_Ed_effects_desc}+5% tax, +5% trade, +5% mining, -10% construction, -1 squalor, +1 law, +1 Piety, -1 Loyalty, small bonus on siege equipment
    {Standard_Western_Ed}Magister Artium
    
    {Advanced_Eastern_Ed_desc}After years of studying at madhāhib and elsewhere has was granted the "ijāzah al-tadrīs wa al-iftā'"("license to teach and issue legal opinions"). During these years he gained in-depth understanding of both secular and religious matters. He is a master jurist who can manage efficiently the provinces, but his obsession with  jurisprudence leads him to be very defiant to the rulers.
    {Advanced_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc}10% bonus on tax income, 5% bonus on trade income, 10% bonus on mining income, 10% decrease in construction costs, +3 farming output, +3 Piety, -2 Loyalty, +1 to popularity (improves public order), +2 law (improves public order and lowers corruption), +5 siege equipment build points
    {Advanced_Eastern_Ed}Mujtahid
    {Advanced_Greek_Ed_desc}Has spent may years studying at a Studium Generale to obtain a master's degree, gaining a knowledge of law, medicine and philosophy.
    {Advanced_Greek_Ed_effects_desc}+1 Piety, +5 siege equipment build points, 10% bonus on all trade income, 5% bonus on tax income, 10% decrease in construction costs, 5% bonus on mining income, +2 to law (improves public order), increased battlefield casualties recovery chances
    {Advanced_Greek_Ed}Didaskalos
    {Advanced_Military_Ed_desc}He has received advanced training on military tactics and strategy. He can now lead the armies in a professional way.
    {Advanced_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+2 Command, +1 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +1 to general's hit points, +6 to movement points, +1 to sight range, +1 Command when ambushing, +10 siege equipment build points, +1 to law
    {Advanced_Military_Ed}Trained General
    {Advanced_Pagan_Ed_desc}This person has received advanced training on Pagan tactics and strategy.
    {Advanced_Pagan_Ed_effects_desc}+2 Command, +1 Loyalty, +1 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +8 to movement points (increases movement range), +2 to sight range, +2 Command when ambushing, 5% bonus on tax income, +1 to law (improves public order)
    {Advanced_Pagan_Ed}Advanced Pagan Education
    {Advanced_Western_Ed_desc}He has spent may years studying at university, listening to the professors and sitting at the library. In addition to the artes liberales he gained knowledge of law, medicine and theology. It makes him a brilliant, pious governor, but he looks down on his superiors.
    {Advanced_Western_Ed_effects_desc}+10% tax, +10% trade, +10% mining, -10% construction, +2 law, -2 squalor, +2 Piety, -2 Loyalty, healing of the wounded at battlefield, bonus on siege equipment
    {Advanced_Western_Ed}Doctor Philosophiae
    
    {Master_Military_Ed_desc}This person has both fought heavy battles and studied books on tactics, strategy and history. He has understood and practiced all what is important in the art of war. He is qualified to command all faction armies.
    {Master_Military_Ed_effects_desc}+3 Command, +2 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +2 to general's hit points, +8 to movement points, +3 to sight range, +2 Command when ambushing, +15 siege equipment build points, +1 to law, -1 Loyalty
    {Master_Military_Ed}Trained Commander-in-Chief
    New Inclination descriptions (to make a new player a bit more aware what's going on)

    Code:
    {Governor_Minded_desc}This person has a gift for bureaucratic matters, although he can still get some military skills.
    {Governor_Minded_effects_desc}Able to gain more from administrative education - should be sent to school or university in the young age.
    {Governor_Minded}Administratively Minded
    
    {Military_Minded_desc}He has a gift for military matters, although they can still learn administration skills.
    {Military_Minded_effects_desc}Able to gain more from military education - when young he should be sent to castles to get experience.
    {Military_Minded}Militarily Minded
    Inclination descriptions in 0.9.2

    Code:
    {Governor_Minded_desc}This person has a gift for bureaucratic matters, although they can still learn military skills.
    {Governor_Minded_effects_desc}Able to gain more from education
    {Governor_Minded}Administratively Minded
    
    {Military_Minded_desc}This person has a gift for military matters, although they can still learn administration skills.
    {Military_Minded_effects_desc}Able to gain more from military education
    {Military_Minded}Militarily Minded


    Adjustment of the educational effects
    /WIP - not in the file version 1, but check my other submods, might be already included there/

    Military Education effects:

    (1) Basic: Movement 2
    Changes: none.

    (2) Standard: Command 1, Loyalty 1, Movement 5, SiegeEngineering 5
    Changes: Movement 4.
    Rationale: the benefits for movement are very big, and dwarf similar benefits from the other sources (like Ancillary “Intrepid Explorer” Movement 3). I feel they should be smaller.

    (5) Advanced: Command 2, Loyalty 1, Movement 8, TroopMorale 1, SiegeEngineering 10, LineOfSight 1, Ambush 2
    Changes into: Command 2, Movement 6, TroopMorale 1, SiegeEngineering 10, LineOfSight 1, Ambush 1, HitPoints 1, Law 1
    Rationale:
    A) Movement – as above
    B) Loyalty – should get lower, as with Master is -1; which is rational: if you’re educated you can assess things with cold blood, what lowers mindless Loyalty
    C) Ambush nerfed a bit for balancing, benefits should strat from 1.
    D) HitPoints – again: such education makes a person more careful and aware of the dangers in battle
    E
    ) Law – advanced military education is related also to ability to control masses of people, what can be useful for managing the cities as well.

    (10) Master: Command 3, Loyalty -1, Movement 10, TroopMorale 2, SiegeEngineering 15, LineOfSight 3, Ambush 3
    Changes into: Command 3, Loyalty -1, Movement 8, TroopMorale 2, SiegeEngineering 15, LineOfSight 3, Ambush 2, Law 1, HitPoints 2.
    Rationale: as above.

    Administrative Education

    Principles
    *
    differences between cultures should be rather small since - taking a big, big picture - they had very much in common (and if we have in the game university for the Greeks and Muslims... we've alredy done big approximations);
    * the "value" of effects should be simillar between different cultures. I made a spreadsheet and weighted the benefits for each level - the Eastern education was overpowered compared the the Greek and Western. See the table below, I also weighted the benefits. For instance, +mining is of rare use given the rarity of the mines, while +tax is very powerful, giving a lot of money almost each turn.
    * the education affects almost every part of personality and behaviour, so there should be many effects (and yes, the SS took this approach, I'm just making it more rational, or historic if you like);
    * benefits should be easy to remember for the player, which means - in contradiction to the previous sentence - that there should be not so many benefits (I hesitated a lot if not to add Authority for the highest level...);
    * another thing to make it easier for the players is to keep cohesion - many similarities between factions;
    * yet they should have some historical flavour: Muslim education was more about religion and law, Greek education was quite similar to the Western but slightly more about religion, while the Western education had slightly more subjects conducive for "technology";
    * with education there's always a trade off between benefits and Loyalty. So it comes at a cost not only of years spent at university, but also of problems to keep the educated loyal. I hope it provides more immersion and role-playing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Western Administrative Education effects

    (1) Basic (Baccalaureus Artium):
    Currently: Tax 5%, Trade 2%, SiegeEngineering 5
    Changes: Tax 5%, Trade 2%, SiegeEngineering 5, Law 1, Piety 1.
    (education was closely related to religion and law)

    (3) Standard (Magister Artium):
    Currently: Tax 5%, Trade 5%, Mining 5%, Building Costs -5%, Loyalty -1, SiegeEngineer 5
    Changes: Tax 5%, Trade 5%, Mining 5%, Building Costs -10%, Loyalty -1, SiegeEngineer 5, Law 1, Squalor -1, Piety 1.
    (Western education was slightly more practical and technical than the other)

    (10) Advanced (Doctor Philosophiae):
    Currently: Tax 10%, Trade 10%,
    Mining 10%, Building Costs -10%, Loyalty -2, Piety 2, Law 2, BattleSurgery 5, SiegeEngineering 5,
    Changes: Tax 10%, Trade 10%,Mining 10%, Building Costs -10%, Loyalty -2, Piety 2, Law 2, BattleSurgery 5, SiegeEngineering 5, Squalor -2.
    (the advanced education at the universities - medecine, law, theology - helped to develop bigger cities)

    Eastern Administrative Education effects

    (1) Basic (Hafiz):
    Currently: Tax 5%, Piety 1, LocalPopularity 1, SiegeEngineering 5.

    Changes: Tax 5%, Piety 1, LocalPopularity 1, SiegeEngineering 5, Law 1.
    (to underline the relation of the education to law. The popularity element is related to Hafiz' popularity due to remembering the whole Qu'aran)


    (3) Standard (Faqih):
    Currently: Tax 5%, Piety 2, Trade 1%,
    SiegeEngineer 5, Mining 5%, Building Costs -5%, LocalPopularity 1
    Changes: Tax 5%, Piety 2, Trade 1%, SiegeEngineer 5, Law 3, Loyalty -1, Squalor -1.
    (to show the relation of the education to law and religion, while less connections to technology. The Popularity has been changed into law, given that Faqih was about jurisprudence, strictly applying law while the common folk on streets would prefer somebody who doesn't whip for sins. Loyalty penalty is common for all cultures, here it shows that men knowing relevant verses from Quaran were more defiant to the rulers behaving badly. Squalor benefit shows that with education it was easier to manage cities with big population)
    From the gameplay point of view: it's more difficult not to have bonuses for construction, but high low gives a lot of money from limiting corruption.

    (10) Advanced (Mujtahid):
    Currently: Tax 10%, Trade 5%,Mining 10%, Building Costs -10%, Loyalty -1, Piety 3, Law 2, LocalPopularity 2, SiegeEngineering 5.
    Changes: Tax 10%, Trade 5%, Mining 5%, Building Costs -5%, Loyalty -2, Piety 3, Law 4, BattleSurgery 5, Squalor -1,
    SiegeEngineering 5.
    (with such advance level of education also technical skills are acquired; Law is still higher, and due to the w
    ell-advanced medicine in the Muslim world the BattleSurgery is acquired; Loyalty: after analysing all the arguments in Quran, an educated men was devote to promotion of virtue and prevention of vice, what made him much more defiant to the rulers behaving badly.

    Greek Administrative Education effects


    (1) Basic (Apophoitos):
    Currently: Tax 5%, Trade 2%, Law 1, SiegeEngineering 5.
    Changes: Tax 5%, Trade 2%, Law 1, SiegeEngineering 5, Piety 1.

    (education was closely related to religion and law)

    (3) Standard (Maistor):
    Currently: Tax 5%, Trade 5%, Mining 5%, Building Costs -5%, Law 1, SiegeEngineering 5
    Changes: Tax 10%, Trade 5%, Mining 5%, Building Costs -5%, Law 1, SiegeEngineering 5, Piety 2, Loyalty -1.
    (Tax: Byzantine education took experience from the best fiscal system of the time; Piety: learning was always related to the monks and reading of the holy books, especially in the Orthodox church; Loyalty: educated people are more defiant to the rulers. Monks' riots in Constantinople testify.)

    (10) Advanced (Didaskalos):
    Currently: Tax 5%, Trade 10%, Mining 5%, Building Costs -10%, Law 2, Piety 1, BattleSurgery 5, SiegeEngineering 5.
    Changes: Tax 10%, Trade 10%, Mining 5%, Building Costs -10%, Law 2, Piety 3, BattleSurgery 5, SiegeEngineering 5, Loyalty -2, Squalor -1.
    (Squalor: with Orthodox education it was much easier to manage cities with big population. After all, Constantinople was for centuries a huge city)

    Code of the whole relevant section in EDCT
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trait Military_Edu
     Characters family
    
     Level Basic_Military_Ed
       Description Basic_Military_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Basic_Military_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 1
    
       Effect MovementPoints 2
    
     Level Standard_Military_Ed
       Description Standard_Military_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Standard_Military_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 2
    
       Effect Command 1
       Effect Loyalty 1
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5
       Effect MovementPoints 4
    
     Level Advanced_Military_Ed
       Description Advanced_Military_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Advanced_Military_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 5
    
       Effect Command 2
       Effect SiegeEngineering 10
       Effect TroopMorale 1
       Effect LineOfSight 1
       Effect Ambush 1
       Effect Law 1
       Effect HitPoints 1
       Effect MovementPoints 6
    
     Level Master_Military_Ed
       Description Master_Military_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Master_Military_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 10
    
       Effect Command 3
       Effect SiegeEngineering 15
       Effect TroopMorale 2
       Effect LineOfSight 3
       Effect Ambush 2
       Effect Loyalty -1
       Effect Law 1
       Effect HitPoints 2
       Effect MovementPoints 8
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trait Western_Edu
     Characters family
    
     Level Basic_Western_Ed
       Description Basic_Western_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Basic_Western_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 1
    
       Effect TaxCollection 5
       Effect Trading 2
       Effect Law 1
       Effect Piety 1
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
     Level Standard_Western_Ed
       Description Standard_Western_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Standard_Western_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 3
    
       Effect TaxCollection 5
       Effect Trading 5
       Effect Mining 5 
       Effect Construction 5
       Effect Law 1
       Effect Piety 1
       Effect Squalor -1
       Effect Loyalty -1
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
     Level Advanced_Western_Ed
       Description Advanced_Western_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Advanced_Western_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 10
    
       Effect TaxCollection 10
       Effect Trading 10
       Effect Mining 10 
       Effect Construction 10
       Effect Law 2
       Effect Squalor -2
       Effect Piety 2
       Effect Loyalty -2
       Effect BattleSurgery 5
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trait Eastern_Edu
     Characters family
    
     Level Basic_Eastern_Ed
       Description Basic_Eastern_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Basic_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 1
    
       Effect TaxCollection 5
       Effect Piety 1
       Effect LocalPopularity 1 
       Effect Law 1
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
     Level Standard_Eastern_Ed
       Description Standard_Eastern_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Standard_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 3
    
       Effect TaxCollection 5
       Effect Trading 1
       Effect Law 3
       Effect Piety 2
       Effect Squalor -1
       Effect Loyalty -1
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
     Level Advanced_Eastern_Ed
       Description Advanced_Eastern_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Advanced_Eastern_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 10
    
       Effect TaxCollection 10
       Effect Trading 5
       Effect Mining 5 
       Effect Construction 5
       Effect Law 4
       Effect Squalor -1
       Effect Piety 3
       Effect Loyalty -2
       Effect BattleSurgery 5
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trait Greek_Edu
     Characters family
    
     Level Basic_Greek_Ed
       Description Basic_Greek_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Basic_Greek_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 1
    
       Effect TaxCollection 5
       Effect Trading 2
       Effect Law 1
       Effect Piety 1
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
     Level Standard_Greek_Ed
       Description Standard_Greek_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Standard_Greek_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 3
    
       Effect TaxCollection 10
       Effect Trading 5
       Effect Mining 5 
       Effect Construction 5
       Effect Law 1
       Effect Piety 2
       Effect Loyalty -1
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5 
    
     Level Advanced_Greek_Ed
       Description Advanced_Greek_Ed_desc
       EffectsDescription Advanced_Greek_Ed_effects_desc
       Threshold 10
    
       Effect TaxCollection 10
       Effect Trading 10
       Effect Mining 5 
       Effect Construction 10
       Effect Law 2
       Effect Squalor -1
       Effect Piety 3
       Effect Loyalty -2
       Effect BattleSurgery 5
       Effect SiegeEngineering 5


    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; August 05, 2017 at 01:31 AM. Reason: New ideas

  14. #14
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    For Greek, you can use Latin names as well

    If I find something about Eastern factions, I'll post it here.
    What about the Muslims factions?
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  15. #15
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Eastern factions = Muslim factions.
    Eastern_Edu requires islam.

    Concerning Greeeks - I would expect something in Greek exists, and given many ERE-fans here, I hope somebody may have some proposals.

  16. #16
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    From my post about their army hierarchy subject:
    Quote Originally Posted by myself

    • Command hierarchy and unit composition


    Under the emperor, the commander-in-chief of the army was the megas domestikos (Grand Domestic). His second-in-command was the protostrator. The commander of the navy was the megas doux (Grand Duke), who was also the military commander for Crete, the Aegean Islands and the southern parts of mainland Greece. A commander entrusted with an independent field force or one of the major divisions of a large expeditionary army was termed a strategos (general).

    Individual provinces and the defensive forces they contained were governed by a doux (duke) or katepano (though this title was sometimes bestowed on the senior administrator below the doux), who was a military officer with civil authority; under the doux a fortified settlement or a fortress was commanded by an officer with the title kastrophylax (castle-warden). Lesser commanders, with the exception of some archaic titles, were known by the size of the unit they commanded, for example a tagmatarches commanded a tagma (regiment). The commander of the Varangians had a unique title, akolouthos (acolyte), indicating his close personal attendance on the emperor.

    During the Komnenian period the earlier names for the basic units of the Byzantine cavalry, bandon and moira, gradually disappear to be replaced by the allagion, believed to have been between 300 and 500 men strong. The allagion, commanded by an allagator, was probably divided into subunits of 100, 50 and 10 men. On campaign the allagia could be grouped together (usually in threes) into larger bodies called taxeis, syntaxeis, lochoi or tagmata. The infantry unit was the taxiarchia, a unit type first recorded under Nikephoros II Phokas; it was theoretically 1000 men strong, and was commanded by a taxiarches.
    I know that it doesn't fully answer to your question but at least and hopefully, it gives you ways where to look
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  17. #17
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Thanks, Lifhtrasir, this is interesting, although reated to the positions, not education.

    The Military Education is common for all factions (but pagans), so we have to use quasi-generic names (as I proposed).

    The Pagan Education is for the two pagan factions, which are so different that it'll also not possible to invent something specific.

    The Administrative Education is different for the Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims. What I'm looking for are the names in Greek and Arabic, which described somebody with simple school-education, somebody after the university-equivalent, and somebody with very advanced education. So it's about civilian words, not releated to military. I think somebody interested in history of those parts of the world would give a hint.

  18. #18
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    I understood that. My previous post is more related to the military education (as you mentionned )
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  19. #19

    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Jurand,do you continue with rhis work about generals education? Do you upload a new version or you continue with your researchs? I hope implemented at least in my sship soon
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  20. #20
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: EOG: Education of generals – a minimod for SSHIP 0.9.2

    Use the version 1. It works in all the aspects, don't worry about implementing version 2 in future as it'll be save-compative (with minor quirks).
    For now I need to implement Mentor/Tutor/AA things, the fix on the titles helped to understand some mechanics. Besides, I'm trying to gather info about the Greek and Muslim education names, but I got 2 names out of 6 (well, Hafiz and Mujtahid).

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