TTIP allegedly dead.

[Basil II the B.S]

According to the vice-chancellor of Germany Sigmar Gabriel.

http://www.thelocal.de/20160829/vice...s-failed-us-eu

"The talks with the US have de facto failed because we Europeans of course must not succumb to American demands," he told public broadcaster ZDF.

"Nothing is moving forward."
Negotiators from the US and the EU are in talks to finalize the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) which would create the world's largest free trade area.
But the European Commission on Monday insisted that talks on the trade deal were on track.
"The ball is rolling right now. The Commission is making steady progress," Commission spokesman Margaritis Schinas said when asked about Gabriel's comments.
"Talks are now indeed entering a crucial stage but ... provided the conditions are right, the Commission stands ready to close this deal by the end of the year," Schinas told a regular press briefing.
The EU and US began work on TTIP in 2013, aiming to create the world's largest free trade area by the time President Barack Obama leaves office in January next year.
But the negotiations have been bogged down over the terms of the agreement as well as Britain's shock vote to leave the EU and rising opposition to the deal in France and Germany.
The setbacks have raised serious doubts that it will be achieved by the end of the year as hoped.
Activists who have opposed TTIP since negotiations began in 2013 say the deal would only benefit multinationals and harm consumers.
France's Prime Minister Manuel Valls has said it would be "impossible" for the two sides to conclude negotiations on a trade deal by the end of 2016.


Behind the scenes, top diplomats have told AFP talks may be suspended until after the US presidential election in November as well as elections in France and Germany next year.

In the interview on Sunday, Gabriel was more upbeat about a Canada-EU free trade agreement, which he called "a big step forward", adding he would fight for its ratification.
The deal known as CETA was formally concluded in 2014 and requires the approval of 28 EU member states and European Parliament.

So, with establishment politicians losing consensus and impending elections, it looks like none of them wants to sacrifice their career in the name of corporate overlords. Personal interest vs corporate interest; the winner? The people.

Now, let's not undo this victory by giving another term to treacherous politicians so that they can claim the war after losing a battle. Shall we?

A good day for the people of Europe and North America, a bad day for the globalist elite.

What's your take guys?

[Gallus]

This is great news, but I fear it will be like you said, the treaty will be signed after the elections.

[Gäiten]

Gabriel is a 24-carat moron.

Free trade is going to be the most important element in todays world. Instead of taking part in the negotiations and so actively construct the deal he simply gives up.

[Condottiere 40K]

Certainly for the British, they're no longer in the back of the line.

[Mayer]

TTIP is a bad deal, it grants multinationals the power to sue european governments. Maybe we can negotiate a good treaty with President Trump without the globalist agenda.

[Heathen Hammer]

TTIP is a bad deal, it grants multinationals the power to sue european governments. Maybe we can negotiate a good treaty with President Trump without the globalist agenda.

Indeed, I can see why Obama was rushing to push the deal through, since his corporate owners realize that this was their last chance.

[Mangalore]

Indeed, I can see why Obama was rushing to push the deal through, since his corporate owners realize that this was their last chance.

That makes no sense. Supposedly everyone in power is owned by corporations so why should that be the last chance? If one wants to peddly conspiracy theories one should stay consistent.

Quite frankly the problem with most diplomatic agreements is that really few people on the supporting or detracting side have any actual clue about the deal which is also still under negotiation aka a reason a lot of stuff is not agreed upon, yet. Not sure how that is mitigated but overall the big support or opposition in the broad area of the populace are solely down to feeling not any facts about what that agreement actually will or will not do.

Liking my place in the middle where I can smartass about everything I doubt the deal is as bad as people think nor as good as other people think...

[Gaidin]

That makes no sense. Supposedly everyone in power is owned by corporations so why should that be the last chance? If one wants to peddly conspiracy theories one should stay consistent.

Politicians change. Power structures don't. There's always going to be a corporation here and there in the political power structure of the world. Maybe occasionally depending on who and how someone wins an executive office they have to effect things differently for a few years. But they're still there. In 2017, whoever wins the election, the question is, which ones.

[Basil II the B.S]

The usual academia is now tearing its vests over this and their new narrative has been decided: excess of democracy, blaming the ignorant masses, laughable explanations of how globalization is the best thing ever (for whom?).

[Love Mountain]

Yeah... it's gonna be signed after the elections.

The usual academia is now tearing its vests over this and their new narrative has been decided: excess of democracy, blaming the ignorant masses, laughable explanations of how globalization is the best thing ever (for whom?).

For whom? For consumers. Don't blame Globalization for decline of the middle class. Blame organized money.

[Cyclops]

Yeah... it's gonna be signed after the elections.

This.

Bill flipped on NAFTA, apparently that was dead too. I wanna make a joke about zombie capitalism but I'm too depressed.

Weird thing IIRC the Canadians elected an anti-NAFTA PM and he flipped too. [US accent] Darndest thing, its like no matter who you goshtarned electumacated it got done [/fake US accent].

We signed the TPP and is expected our economy will become pretty warped by that, as corporations change our laws pretty much at will. They are lying doggo ATM as the treaty is still fresh but once its rusted on I expect McDonalds to sue so they can open outlets in kindergartens.

Apparently the effect in Mexico has been for small farmers to go broke and corporations to buy them out. I guess this makes for more unofficial migrants for texas farmers to exploit until they get bought out by totally-not-Monsanto.

[Basil II the B.S]

Yeah... it's gonna be signed after the elections.



For whom? For consumers. Don't blame Globalization for decline of the middle class. Blame organized money.

I blame those who have power, the politicians.

As for whether it'll be signed or not, it depends on whether people will choose to surrender to globalists or not. There aren't just American elections coming next. There will be all over Europe. Expect surprises on the latter.

That makes no sense. Supposedly everyone in power is owned by corporations so why should that be the last chance? If one wants to peddly conspiracy theories one should stay consistent.

Quite frankly the problem with most diplomatic agreements is that really few people on the supporting or detracting side have any actual clue about the deal which is also still under negotiation aka a reason a lot of stuff is not agreed upon, yet. Not sure how that is mitigated but overall the big support or opposition in the broad area of the populace are solely down to feeling not any facts about what that agreement actually will or will not do.

Liking my place in the middle where I can smartass about everything I doubt the deal is as bad as people think nor as good as other people think...

Save it. The deal is about two things:
-ISDS. And about this one I've yet to hear anything positive about it. The only ones who want it are the mega corps that can afford the offshore tribunal.
-bypassing food standards. Another thing where few gains, everyone else looses.

[Heathen Hammer]

That makes no sense. Supposedly everyone in power is owned by corporations so why should that be the last chance?

Globalism isn't exactly the most popular thing among the population, since it mostly benefits the elite and not the masses and elections are coming up in a number of Western countries where anti-establishment politicians and parties are gaining more and more popularity.

The usual academia is now tearing its vests over this and their new narrative has been decided: excess of democracy, blaming the ignorant masses, laughable explanations of how globalization is the best thing ever (for whom?).

Thing is, globalism in the nutshell is an utopian idea that belongs in the past century. Just like Marxism it clearly doesn't work with human nature. With elite-owned MSM's losing their influence to grassroots and social media, and thus no longer being able to control the narrative and losing the "war on minds" we will probably see establishment growing more and more desperate, chances are a lot of "democratic" governments in Western countries may go full Erdogan and attempt to abolish democratic process or even impose martial law to preserve its power.

[Sir Adrian]

Globalization is good for consumers? Mate, open your eyes. Do you not see the obesity epidemics triggered by the usage of stuff like corn syrup in every product? The rising hearty and lung diseases among 20 year olds, the weakening of national cultures and family values? Globalization is only good for corporations

[Love Mountain]

Globalization is good for consumers? Mate, open your eyes. Do you not see the obesity epidemics triggered by the usage of stuff like corn syrup in every product? The rising hearty and lung diseases among 20 year olds, the weakening of national cultures and family values? Globalization is only good for corporations

I'm not talking about their health... I'm talking about cheap products.

[Sir Adrian]

He probably means that free trade increases variety of goods and reduces prices. Nowadays people realize that more factors come into play.

I'm not talking about their health... I'm talking about cheap products.

Then why has the purchasing power of the average American dropped as globalism became more prevalent? Yes it does produce lower prices at the cost of equally lowered income and growth as companies can tap poorer work-force markets and jobs are lost at home. Alternatively for poor countries globalism bring increased prices as corporations will undercut all local competition and gain a monopoly (or oligopoly) while they will almost universally pay the minimum required wage to their workers.


Please note that globalism and free trade are not the same thing. You can have free trade without globalism and you can have globalism without free trade.

[Love Mountain]

Then why has the purchasing power of the average American dropped as globalism became more prevalent? Yes it does produce lower prices at the cost of equally lowered income and growth as companies can tap poorer work-force markets and jobs are lost at home. Alternatively for poor countries globalism bring increased prices as corporations will undercut all local competition and gain a monopoly (or oligopoly) while they will almost universally pay the minimum required wage to their workers.

Don't blame globalization for decreased purchasing power of the common citizen. Blame organized money. America is pretty much all about service jobs. Death of organized labor and wage increases are the result of intense lobbying by corporate interests that demonized minimal wages as "Socialist Communist Evil" and Unions as "Anti-Labor".

Please note that globalism and free trade are not the same thing. You can have free trade without globalism and you can have globalism without free trade.

Globalization is ultimately a positive force. I want everyone in the world to have access to good schooling, technology, and food.

[Sir Adrian]

Don't blame globalization for decreased purchasing power of the common citizen. Blame organized money. America is pretty much all about service jobs. Death of organized labor and wage increases are the result of intense lobbying by corporate interests that demonized minimal wages as "Socialist Communist Evil" and Unions as "Anti-Labor".

The only reason those companies were able to get away with it is because of globalism. They could tell their employees there is always somebody in India ready to take their job for a quarter pay and they could tell the government that there are always poorer countries who will welcome all their profits and business. If globalism did not exist, if corporations did not have the option to simply "run out of town" they would have no other solution but to provide decent conditions for their workers.

Furthermore to call an ideology which promotes the destruction of local culture and practices, without exception, the maximization of exploitation of both natural and human resources by market players (aka corporations) and the creation of an elitist global super-government a force for good is both laughable and very frightening at the same time.

Globalization is ultimately a positive force. I want everyone in the world to have access to good schooling, technology, and food.

None of those things have anything to do with globalism, at all. In fact if you look at china, africa, south america and india globalism did the exact opposite. Bolivians no longer have free access to clean water because globalism allowed Bechtel to muscle in and confiscate all water in the country, Brazilians are starving in the thousands because globalism allowed american and european soy producers to move in and ruin the land, Africa is full of epidemics because globalism allowed Nestle to dump its failed artificial baby milk in the guise of real milk and destroy the immune system of tens of millions of people across three generations.

Or maybe you like to learn how you iphone, nokia, fubu, adidas, nike, reebok or ugg boots were made. That is the real face of globalism, not the sweet lies you get told in infomercials and pamphlets.

[Mayer]

He probably means that free trade increases variety of goods and reduces prices. Nowadays people realize that more factors come into play.

[mongrel]

A good day for the people of Europe and North America, a bad day for the globalist elite.

What's your take guys?

Only one answer required (warning contains images of black people some TWC members might find upsetting.)