[Request] 4TPY for RS III?

[Octavius-Augustus]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would 4TPY mess with the economy? I thought it just 'stretches' time as far as everything else is concerned, if indeed building costs/times are not tweaked in any way. At least my Roman campaign seems to be going as usual, for now. Of course everything will be moving a lot faster e.g. what my date used to be ~630AUC it's now ~580AUC. I never bothered with the year since it's all an alternative simulation to historical reality, so it doesn't bug me much.

Anyway, what I meant to say is that playing Rome I've had income of ~115K before I applied 4tpy (which is not much at all when investing in buildings in a huge empire). I ran the submod and after several turns and no real change in my troops/income composition, I still have around the same income. Maybe being filthy rich is normal for Rome so I can't really tell the difference? I have to try out my Gallaeci campaign but I've ignored that save because it's H/H and Rome and Carthage have got me between the hammer and the anvil if you know what I mean

[Saul Tyre]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would 4TPY mess with the economy?

I've no idea tbh it just seems that way, I put the last save-game from my Pergamon 1-turn LP into another install I use for messing about with and added the 4tpy, I already had a decent infrastructure in tow and just continued in my normal way, I played around 60 more turns and kept building, increasing my military strength every turn and had 160,000+ denarii in the treasury lol. . Maybe I've got it wrong I don't know, it just seems a lot because I thought money was less with 1-turn, I had these sort of figures on 0-turn campaign and 2tpy playing Athens and I thought that was too much then, I queried it somewhere on the forum and was told it was ok . There seemed to be an upsurge in activity from the AI too, especially the Seleucids with attack after attack, then Macedon and Pontus declared war on me within 5 turns of one another, that on top of the GCS whom I was already at war with and brigands popping up all over the place. As far as I understand the only real benefit for using 4tpy was giving more time to conquer and more time to spend with your characters, so unless it's because I added it after having started the campaign on 2tpy I'm stumped

[Octavius-Augustus]

Hmm Saul, this is indeed a troubling situation. Money should not be a problem, but such overabundance could not be accounted for, at least for 1-turn, which I haven't played in RS III as of yet (thanks to the excellent WWC submod!).

I guess some more testing is in order, especially 1-turn. I'll try out another 0-turn 2-tpy savegame with 4pty and report the results. Then I'll start a new 0-turn one as Arverni I think and a 1-turn as some other faction. With feedback from everyone we can monitor the economy.

Maybe 4TPY is just not savegame compatible and messes with economy somewhat. We still have no idea how would that work, though.

[Saul Tyre]

@Octavius-Augustus an update for you laddie, I played 80+ turns as Belgae 1-turn campaign(hard) and 2tpy, because of my good gardening my economy has flowered well, good infrastructure in place, I have 2 full stack armies of mixed infantry, cav & missile , 2 half stack of replacement support, 1x half stack of "home guard", all settlements garrisoned with governor and at least 2 units of cheap units and a healthy 58,000+ in the bank. I then restarted using 4tpy following my previous build path etc for 80+ turns and have a treasury of 51,000+ so pretty close eh? the only noticeable difference was a slight increase in the amount of armies produced by the AI(mainly Rebel spam) but that could be anything, especially as I"Rule Britannia". My conclusion is that all is well

[Octavius-Augustus]

Thanks for the update Saul, as always I trust your expertise so I guess something strange must have happened in your first tests but since you were unable to replicate the economy 'boom' it's safe to say for now that this 4TPY submod does not break RS III economy model. More input will be appreciated like always, I'm sure. As for myself, I didn't have much time for RTW these days but this 4-turns thing is getting me excited to delve in a serious campaign soon enough. Wish you well, kind sir

[Saul Tyre]

@Octavius-Augustus; As much as I appreciate your compliment, "expertise" is a slight over statement I'm afraid, until I reach the level of the likes of ur-Lord Tedric, Alavaria, Seleukos99, Ferike_2007 I'd rather more modestly claim to be reasonably accomplished As for more input, I will run another test campaign just to be sure in my mind that it is what it appears to be. Good to know that you are going to get yourself immersed into a serious campaign, be sure to post your progress (with a few screenies here and there for flavor) in the "Roma Surrectum III - Post Your Empires" thread

[Octavius-Augustus]

Hehe sure, I wasn't trying to flatter you or anything, what I meant is that I know you do extensive testing, you apparently play the game and the mod a lot so you have a pretty good idea about it's balance and maybe even some of the mechanics.

Also with total respect to the figures you mentioned, you have been one of the most active on a forum of a very old game and a near-finished mod. So yes, I would say you have some expertise on regarding RS III, even if it's mostly gameplay-wise

Now to get a bit on topic: I do remember it's not the first time you invite me to share my campaigns. I have to say I'm pretty proud of my Rome and Gallaeci campaigns and while I would be honored to share screens here on the forums, I like to immerse myself in those playing hours so I rarely take the time (and thought) to take screens, let alone videos. So sure, next time I test out either of these campaigns with 4TPY I'll be sure to think of you and take some screenies to post here!

[Saul Tyre]

@Octavius Augustus; I'm always happy to try and help anyone who is less knowledgeable than myself, there's very few about to help nowadays and this great mod still deserves to be played, so new players are welcome and often need help/advice, that's one of the reasons why I stay active, it's sort of my small way of saying thanks for the pleasure I have had(and still have) from the mod and trying to help keep it alive and active.

As you mention I do still play regularly, this is my favorite mod bar none. I always play on H/VH difficulty(which is slightly unbalanced imo), I try to "arrange" most battles as full stack v full stack and they can last up to 2 hours as I get into immersive deployment and tactics, on LP's it has to be a different strategy for RT purposes so less massive battles and cleverly chosen ones to try and entertain. I think H/M is possibly the best balance for fun and enjoyment for many.

I will look forward with interest to your posts, I don't necessarily mean for you to do it like an AAR but just generally how your campaign is playing out, what difficulties you might have, how the balance is, unusual occurrences etc

[OJ33DA]

I'm having trouble activating the 4tpy submod by Immortal_Hoplite while playing Syracuse on M/M. I c&pasted it into my RSIII folder using the mk3 version of the submod. I made sure it was the "3.0" folder that I copied and the game is running well. Actually, the first time I tested the submod, I had an issue saving the game—the 'save game' and 'load game' options were grayed out. I "reinstalled" the submod and now the save game issue is gone but it is still 2tpy. I activated the RSIII script so is there something else I have to do to activate the 4tpy?

[OJ33DA]

P.S.
I tried the script in a Rome 0 turn campaign and it worked beautifully. It only seems like Syracuse campaign that is giving me trouble. I'm using the Summerx3 Winterx1 files.

Also, how do I edit my replies?

[OJ33DA]

Soooo I took a look at the code for the "4tpy" for Dacia (which I can confirm works) and Syracuse (the one I was having trouble with) and there was an error with the coding for Syracuse. The "end_script" command was inputted before and after the lines of code for the "4tpy." I removed the "end_script" lines inputted before the code and now the Syracuse campaign works just fine. @Immortal_Hoplite and whoever is having trouble with the 4tpy script, take note of this issue.

Also, this script makes the campaign start in summer of 536 AUC which is inaccurate. I will be changing the code so that all campaigns start in winter.

[Octavius-Augustus]

OK, I can confirm the Sparta 4TPY script seems to be broken, too.. Maybe some of you guys can test it further to replicate what I'm getting... I've overwritten the files necessary and loaded my save, just as I have with my Roman save (works supremely). Now in my Spartan save the unit movement is as 4TPY but the year changes after 2 turns as usual I'll try the fix posted by OJ33DA but a revision is needed to this crafty, long-awaited and otherwise well-executed submod. Thanks again!

EDIT: It worked! Indeed the end_script line was there before 4tpy in background_script for Sparta. However, after removing it, activating script in-game and ending turns I still had 2tpy. It seems the whole semicolon section /;;;;/ had to be removed in order for the script to work as intended. It's probably self-explanatory for someone well into modding RTW but it's a much needed clarification for less experienced users. It would be nice if a simple text file check to be made and this easy fix applied to all 4TPY scripts where required. Immortal_hoplite, if you are busy maybe some of the others here can do it

By the way @OJ33DA, to edit your post like I'm doing now just click the "Edit Post" button just below your posts (where the Reply, Reply with quote etc. buttons are).

[OJ33DA]

I never posted a fix but I'll be happy to do it. Unfortunately I deleted those files but it shouldn't be too difficult to whip it up again. I also plan on making a WWC version, lowering to 4tpy then to 0-turn recruitment.

Note: I also plan on keeping movement points to their default values. Hannibal reportedly was able to travel from Spain to Italy in under a year but currently (2tpy, default movement points), just over half of that distance is able to be covered.

[Octavius-Augustus]

I understand and I look forward to the eventual fixed version and/or the WWC versions of your mod.

As to movement speed, I find the current values to be realistic. Let's keep in mind Hannibal, Caesar etc. were brilliant military commanders back in their day. I doubt many other generals could pull even half of what the Barcid was able to, and the march to Italy especially. Games like RTW are not realism-based, so even a pretty realistic mod such as RS III does not keep attrition in check. Hannibal lost maybe half his army in his march to Italy and crossing of the Alps.

To summarize, I do not believe that the current movement points for your 4TPY mod are inadequate, on the contrary, they are quite realistic. I'm not sure if trait movement bonuses stack but I believe they do and if that's the case, giving someone like Hannibal all possible movement % traits will surely simulate his ability to move massive armies over long distances in a pretty short time

[OJ33DA]

Yes, I suppose you're correct, Hannibal's march was too onerous to be considered the norm. I will be changing the year to 537 AUC, however. The timing of Hannibal's location in the game and the year, 536 AUC (218 BC), doesn't match up with history. Check out this nice map to see what I'm talking about.

[Octavius-Augustus]

Sounds correct. Great to see you appreciate feedback.

Some more polish like that and your 4TPY submod could be the final touch to RS III (3.1 at least, with no new patch in sight) and maybe even WWC.

[OJ33DA]

Finally got around to doing it. I only included the RS3 SUMMERx3 WINTERx1 version as I figure that's what most people will use anyways, and I honestly believe that Europe wasn't as cold during Classical Antiquity as it was during the Dark Ages, and especially not as cold as it is now. Check out this article for more info on that. The game will start in the summer of 69 537 AUC, should work for all campaigns--haven't gone around to testing it but theoretically, nothing should go wrong. If the script doesn't automatically start then just click on any owned settlement and click on the advisor. This must be done every time the game is loaded or else an army of Bear Warriors will rain down on your empire!

jk that won't happen, the script simply will not execute and your save runs a higher probability of being corrupted--way scarier than an army of Bear Warrior imho.

Link has moved here.

[Octavius-Augustus]

That's good news, OJ33DA! Just a quick question, are the broken 3x/1x versions mentioned in the above posts fixed in this archive?

Thanks in advance

EDIT: Also, for some reason on opening the downloaded file, I receive an error the archive is broken or something similar. I use WinRAR to open .rar archives. Hasn't really happened to me unless the file is really broken. Would be nice if someone else could test it.

[OJ33DA]

Attempt #2. I packed the files in an older version of Winrar, maybe that'll work for you. And yes, ALL the campaigns should be fixed.
4tpy(attempt2).rar

[Octavius-Augustus]

I guess that was the issue. It works just fine now, thank you very much!!