Dutch far right party, ahead in polls!

[alhoon]

The gist: The Dutch far-right party PVV, is ahead for several months in a row in general election polls for the Dutch elections that will happen in 6 months. The party runs on anti-immigrant, anti-EU, anti-islam agenda. The document of the PVV's program clearly states that they will close all Mosques and ban the Koran + they will try again to hold a referendum on leaving the EU (I'll call it Duexit) among other things.


My reaction can be simply surmised as:
I don't even know if the government of the Netherlands CAN close down Mosques and ban the Koran according to their constitution.
This is an UNVEILED attack on freedom of religion that if enacted would be unparalleled in the modern Western world and only encountered in parts of Middle East and Asia. We're not talking about half-measures like "no opening of new Mosques" like Switzerland, but CLOSING DOWN existing ones. Like the crusades or something.
On the back of that, a host of xenophobic and islamophobic proposals: The expected veil ban + closing the borders, closing asylum seeker centers, banning migrants from Islamic countries and of course, a referendum on Duexit. Add on this something called "administrative detention" I.e. arrest and detention of someone without a trial (like Guantanamo) + "Recording ethnicity for all Dutch citizens" (think stars...) + "Select policemen on "decisiveness." " (I kid you not! It's there!).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_...Party_platform

This is pure madness! I didn't expect to see a party like this gaining traction, let alone going near the government, anywhere in the West since the 50s.
You may dislike immigrants and consider them a threat. You may be distrustful of Muslims.
But at some point, DEEP in your heart you have to ask "is that even remotely approaching freedom of religion?" and even if you're against freedom of religion, you may ask yourself "If they're going to go that far against Muslims, will they stop with them?"

[Bobington]

I can do naught but laugh. As always the policies of the left have made the far-right's beliefs proven right, so they drag themselves and the ordinary and even some centre right people into the far far right. In return their policies make the left push further for their own crap, resulting in crap like the flood of refugees, and thus making the cycle repeat anew. We are somewhere in the middle of this. No doubt someone like snuggans will mosey over and would ask for more liberalism and left policy in the world being the spark to continue it into the next phase.

[Muizer]

I can do naught but laugh. As always the policies of the left have made the far-right's beliefs proven right, so they drag themselves and the ordinary and even some centre right people into the far far right. In return their policies make the left push further for their own crap, resulting in crap like the flood of refugees, and thus making the cycle repeat anew. We are somewhere in the middle of this. No doubt someone like snuggans will mosey over and would ask for more liberalism and left policy in the world being the spark to continue it into the next phase.

It's but how you define "left" I suppose. Since WWII, we've had 29 cabinets, only 7 of which were lead by social democrats (always in coalition with conservatives or right wing liberals. Only once did a more left wing party join). 15 cabinets consisted wholly of center-right or right wing parties.

[alhoon]

It's but how you define "left" I suppose. Since WWII, we've had 29 cabinets, only 7 of which were lead by social democrats (always in coalition with conservatives or right wing liberals. Only once did a more left wing party join). 15 cabinets consisted wholly of center-right or right wing parties.

When you see someone equating "Liberal" with "Progressive" you know you speak with someone that refers to the American system since Liberal means "Reagan-like and Thatcher-like policies" for the rest of the world.
As such, what people accustomed to USA politics refer as left is usually "moderate-rightwing" for most of the world.

[Muizer]

When you see someone equating "Liberal" with "Progressive" you know you speak with someone that refers to the American system since Liberal means "Reagan-like and Thatcher-like policies" for the rest of the world.
As such, what people accustomed to USA politics refer as left is usually "moderate-rightwing" for most of the world.

I did not actually intend a discussion of the definition of 'left'. I just wanted to point out Bobington is confusing policy with rhetoric. The left in our country has employed more optimist rhetoric about immigration and integration, but when you look at who has de facto been in power, it ought to be obvious the center-right has to take the 'credit' for the actual state of affairs.

[Fanest]

Violence breeds violence, and we are all human after all, ppl used to living in a bubble too often forget this.

[Bobington]

Yeah but when the violence stops, something has to make it be born again.

[Cabeceira]

well said..

[Mayer]

in before the Nexit

[Basileos Leandros I]

DUexit is very unlikely to happen - the Dutch are generally in favour of the European Union, and they have been a cornerstone of the EU for quite some time.

[Papay]

DUexit is very unlikely to happen - the Dutch are generally in favour of the European Union, and they have been a cornerstone of the EU for quite some time.

Exactly. Now they are capital of EU. Without EU they are nothing

[fkizz]

DUexit is very unlikely to happen - the Dutch are generally in favour of the European Union, and they have been a cornerstone of the EU for quite some time.

The Dutch had a referendum in 2005 to veto the creation of an EU constitution.

[mongrel]

The document of the PVV's progrom

Fixed.

[Mayer]

You are confusing dutch with Belgium.

[Roma_Victrix]

DUexit

Ugh! Could they come up with a better exit type phrase? This one is just so awkward sounding.

As for the OP, yeah, can't say I'm too surprised by all of this. Multiculturalism only works when there is a clearly dominant culture that every group integrates into despite keeping facets of their original foreign cultures to retain some degree of identity as ethnic minorities. The flood of migrants and refugees alike is almost unprecedented and the greatest movement of peoples in the Mediterranean and Western world since WWII. Obviously this was going to have consequences, both cultural and political, and we are seeing it now. There's no way that all of these people can be efficiently integrated all at once at such a high volume. There's no way to guarantee that a lot of them won't remain in poverty, causing a good many of them to become bitter and turn to lives of crime. This is bad for everybody, them most especially, since we all know that young male Muslims who turn to a life of crime in Europe are the absolute most susceptible group of people, demographically speaking, to turn to the hateful propaganda and message of ISIS giving them a way out: through martyrdom and jihad.

[sumskilz]

Ugh! Could they come up with a better exit type phrase? This one is just so awkward sounding.

Dutch isn't even analogous to Britain, analogous would be The Netherexit.

I am also not surprised by this development.

[Phier]

I am also not surprised by this development.

If I were a conspiracy theory type, I'd be convinced it was the plan all along being how painfully obvious this type of outcome is. I think though that we can't underestimate the power of human incompetence.

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

DUXit
IPSOS put PVV at 27 (<->35 two days later by dutch agency). Interesting because they also do American presidential polls

Oh the horror if the radical muslims will leave The Netherlands they will end up in Antwerp. But don't worry if you look at the election results. The liberals lose votes to PVV and the socialist are split between small green leftists parties. Almost no stable govenrment can be formed.

[Basil II the B.S]

Alhoon, you might as well post opinion polls:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...neral_election

To sum up, while at the moment Wilders leads with a 35% average, in December/January it was up to 40%.

Opinion:
N.1, The Dutch had a chance to fix the integration of Muslims over a decade ago, with Pjm Fortuijn, who was an actual moderate; Progressives murdered him, because that's their idea of tolerance.
N.2, Most of Europe has been having problems with mass migration to begin with and integration of Muslim masses secondarily. Everyone pointing that out has been dubbed racist by the mainstream parties who live secure in their wealthy areas, protected by the police and do not have to deal with the daily issues of the working class. The problem has been long denied, discussion has been prevented, solutions were not found. Now it's exploding in full force.
N.3 Wilders is a douchebag that takes tons of money from Zionists to promote generalize dislike of Muslims, so that they can go on with their Middle East plan.

Conclusion: They had their chance, the elite prevented it. They never did anything about it until now. Now the moderate is gone, enjoy the idiot. He's also quitting the EU too.

[Papay]

I want to see Wilders winning and then seeing how he will implement "the ban to muslims".