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Thread: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

  1. #1
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Every second battle I fight is a 40 degrees mountain slope. It's annoying enough to deal with for me because of silly ancient camera angles in M2TW, but AI just can't handle it like at all. Others mods generally favour flatter battlefields for those two reasons, why can't EB do that too?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Geography is really messed up on the campaign map. It probably has something to do with that too.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Don't attack in the Alps, don't attack in Greece. My recipe for avoiding disaster.

  4. #4
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Ugh the Alps??? today I fought 40 degree slope in front of Sardis on the road to city.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Just wait for the AI to attack you if the map shows any kind of high ground. I messed up maybe 3 times... in over 500 battles(still won, though).

  6. #6
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    But that's a stupid immerson-breaking exploit to keep winning on defence. I can win a battle agaisnt AI much faster if I am the one attacking, anyways. I just want a battlefield that makes sense. Like in EB1, those were very nice and wide and flat.

    Game's much more challenging on VH/autoresolve anyways.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    No, that's luring the enemy into his doom. I learned this a long time ago, via EB:
    "A good general not only sees the way to victory; he also knows when victory is impossible."
    Autoresolve is treason.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    But that's a stupid immerson-breaking exploit to keep winning on defence. I can win a battle agaisnt AI much faster if I am the one attacking, anyways. I just want a battlefield that makes sense. Like in EB1, those were very nice and wide and flat.

    Game's much more challenging on VH/autoresolve anyways.
    Have you not played EB1's southern/central Iranian plateau battlefields as the Pahlava or the like? Those were bumpier than anything I've ever seen, the furthest thing from flat. EB1's battlefields were most certainly not more flat on an average basis, imo; there were tons of hills, slopes, bumps and mountainous as hell maps. Some maps were so bumpy I'd use the fort building exploit to make flat land in mountainous areas. Right outside Athens in EB1 there was a MASSIVE hill sloping up out from the city that the AI would sometimes set up on.

    Anatolia is not that flat of an area(look at a topographical map of the area--it's so hilly and mountainous). Terrain is an important part of warfare, and I think it's a bit silly to assume every battle fought was always on flatter ground. Some areas are very hilly or mountainous on the campaign map, and I personally believe the battlemaps should reflect that.
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; August 25, 2016 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Not that the battle map bothers me very much, but historically wouldn't most battles in this time period been fought on flat or at least mostly flat terrain, unless they were surprise attacks of some kind or occurred at a choke point. Why would an army that hadn't been trapped or forced into battle engage in unfavorable terrain? Couldn't an army just go around an enemy to threaten a settlement or other important location to lure them off of superior terrain? Plus it seems like most (large) battles especially in the Hellenistic sphere were fought on even terrain since neither side would risk their army on poor terrain unless forced in some way.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Take you light troops and cavalry and try to outmanouver them climbing the hill while your shock troops march divided up.

  11. #11
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Is it an issue with how the campaign map was created? Is it unfixable at this stage of development?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    I can easily say that asia minor should be much more flat compared to its depiction in EBII. It has high altitude which is correct but land itself is pretty much flat except for some mountain ranges. Source: Experience, I live there

  13. #13

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Just for reference:

    http://atlas.geo.cornell.edu/gifs/GSA.3.gif

    A really nice image of the kind of topographical features I was talking about.

    As well, look at the Balkans:

    https://thehistoryofbyzantium.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/topographical-map-of-the-balkans-from-wikipedia1.jpg

    And East of Baktria/near where the Saka are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geogra...an_topo_en.jpg

    Flat land isn't exactly in abundance in our world map, but typically in areas which should be flatter(egypt/nile delta, lots of Baktria, Pannonia/Eramiski--modern day Hungary is almost Steppe-like AFAIK--, most of Germania, Eurasian Steppe and etc) you do get lots of flat or smooth battlefields, imo. I personally think the battlemaps should try to conform to the geographical features of an area rather than try to be overall flatter. In many parts of the map, it's simply non-sensical to have flatter battlefields.

    As regards to changing lots of battlemaps, that would be a pretty big rework, as well AFAIK. I have no idea if there are ever plans to rework them, or who within the team would/could do that(not that I'm against the notion in some areas).

  14. #14
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    Ugh the Alps??? today I fought 40 degree slope in front of Sardis on the road to city.
    Come on, man. Everyone knows that Mount Everest is on the way to Sardis.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    My Anatolia suggestion is not related to the land having high altitude or being mountainous, it has to do with a size of a EBII battle map (we'd get an idea by scaling it to units) in ratio to the proper scale of your topographical map. What I mean is that if you could put a EBII battle map into that topographical map using the same scale, you'd see that almost all of the battles you'd play except pontus and the eastern mountain ranges would feature much more flatter battlefields, just like the real life places those battles were fought in.
    EBII battles are large army clashes, minor skirmishes are symbolized as devastation etc so battlemaps should feature places which would have large army clashes instead of guerilla war/ambush ranges so as I said almost everywhere in anatolia should have flatter maps.

    Mine is just a suggestion to the team but I wanted to be clear (I'm still not sure if I am) on why I suggest it hence the long post.

  16. #16
    Rafkos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Paste this into your Medieval II Total War\mods\ebii\data\world\maps folder and delete map.rwm. Let me know if it helps. (You will have to start new campaign)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vov9j7anm7...ights.rar?dl=0

  17. #17
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Way better. Any chance this cna make it into the main game?

  18. #18
    Rafkos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    It will be included in 2.2c. The descr_geography.txt file still causes the main issue of the hilly mountains but it should be fixed today as well (thanks to xHolyCrusader).

  19. #19

    Default Re: Maybe flatten the battlefields a little?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafkos View Post
    It will be included in 2.2c. The descr_geography.txt file still causes the main issue of the hilly mountains but it should be fixed today as well (thanks to xHolyCrusader).
    Wow, great response by the mod team!

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