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Thread: Troll CTD - help required

  1. #1
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Icon4 Troll CTD - help required

    Battle-load/-play crashes have been known to occur when Trolls (both kinds) are involved in battles. We've checked everything we can think of and cannot track down this seemingly random issue. It tends to trigger more often when there are more trolls in play.

    Could I ask players to do three things:

    1. Load up a custom battle where one side is Adunabar and use all your money to recruit hill-trolls.

    2. Run the battle and report any error and when it occurred

    3. Let us know you system specs and game settings.




    Thank you.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  2. #2

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    I get crashes in battles with trolls, happens for me ~30% of the time
    64-bit Windows 10, Intel i7 @ 2.30GHz, Nvidia GT 650m, 8gb RAM and a large address aware BI exe

    been playing around with different video settings, doesn't seem to affect the frequency of the crashes
    I initially thought it must be a problem with the 3d model, but substituting different CAS files for the troll model doesn't seem to change anything either

    visual studio's debugger says that it's throwing an Access Violation exception, not sure how relevant that actually is

    this must be really frustrating

    are there definitely players who definitely never (ever) get crashes with trolls?

  3. #3
    webba84's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    I have never got a crash with trolls during the regular course of a campaign, but I can force one by putting 20 units of them into custom battles. We were almost certain that it was something related to the model but trying them out with our new models gets the same result.

    My computer specs are nothing special either

    64-bit Windows 7, Intel i5 @ 2.3Ghz (second generation), 2GB GTX 650 Ti, 16GB ram. I get the same results from a large address aware BI exe, and the steam version.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    would it be difficult (impossible?) to rebuild the troll units entirely from scratch? There's something unique to them that is causing the crashes. If you remade the units, thoroughly testing them in custom battles every step of the way, eventually you'd figure out what that thing is.

    e: or go the other way, remove their unique properties one at a time until either the crashes stop or they become identical to a normal unit
    Last edited by acci_dent; August 24, 2016 at 02:11 AM.

  5. #5
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Thanks - no, I've removed and replaced everything I can think of and the crashes still occur. I would also like to know if there is anyone who does NOT have crashes on a full-troll custom battle army. If we can find such a person then it might be related to settings. I suspect, however, it is something deep and hardcoded - and something that seems random.

    I've run Proc Mon and it doesn't report anything seemingly of use.

    Specs: Windows 10, 64-bit, Intel i5-4460 3.2 GHz CPU, 8 GB Ram, Nvidia GE Force GT 705, running Steam Gold version (LAA).


    Yes, it is annoying. I get crashes 100% in CBs where there is more than a few trolls, and about every other battle in-campaign (where there is usually 1 troll unit). Basically it puts me off playing the game where I am playing Adunabar or likely to meet them in the west...
    Last edited by MasterOfNone; August 24, 2016 at 03:46 AM.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  6. #6

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    I suspect it might have something to do with skeleton scale, did you try to put the skeleton back into default settings. Personally, I've never had a CTD during campaign (up to 3 - 4 trolls units, in battles), but the game itself is installed on (hold breath ) old Pentium 4 (I got crushes on my newer machine when capturing settlements).

  7. #7
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    I've tried different skeletons, including vanilla, and it does not remove the error. I had the problem on my old laptop as well. And it's not the DMB scale either.

    I just fired up an Adun. campaign and it crashed on the first battle with a troll unit present.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  8. #8

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Here's what I'd have done, just an idea:
    take another unit model and texture, say Nurn Guard(a unit which is tested and doesn't cause crush) and make a new entry and call them for instance, hillTrollsNew then go through the common procedure of unit integration(from scratch, do not copy anything from current troll), except scaling them up and changing units size, spacing inside unit, their speed, then test it, does it crush? If not, now scale them up and test again, if its OK, test the rest one at a time. This way there're good chances that either you''l find where the bug is or you'll end up with a unit that doesn't crush, and there only remains to replace model and texture.
    the same procedure can be repeated with a unit with different animation set, like one-handed swordsman.

  9. #9
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    If there are people who are not having this issue then I need to know their specs and settings. It might give a clue.

    I've tried the build-up approach, though it's not entirely doable due to the unique nature of the trolls. All of the elements have been tested, so I can only imagine it is something hardcoded in the elephant class in the descr_mount file for the troll... that suggests sound or animation, but there's not really any way to know... there is no issue with Mumakil so it must be some incompatibility issue, but with what perplexes me.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  10. #10

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    A major difference in TNS, where I never got these crashes, is that the Trolls had no formation. Have we tried making the Trolls in DOM have no formation and seeing if that makes a difference?

  11. #11
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Yes, tried that long ago. Gave them horde instead of square. Have even adjusted formation numbers. Issue remains...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails trollerrorscreen.jpg  
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  12. #12

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Today I fought several CBs with 10 - 12 troll units each and never got a CTD.
    Later, I'll can post a screenshot or two.

  13. #13
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Yes, please post your PC and Game settings
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  14. #14

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    There it is:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 








    PC is Pentium IV CPU 2.00 Ghz, 1 GB of RAM, Radeon 9250(256MB), XP SP3,
    though one thing to note is I always kill off antivirus from task manager before running the game and I run a registry cleaner program from time to time.

  15. #15
    webba84's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Well that more or less confirms it is unrelated to computer power...

  16. #16
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    I'd say I get CTDs during campaign battles with the initial one unit of hill trolls probably 8 out of 10 battles. This seems a lot higher than others are reporting. Why?

    EDIT: I still get better results when I use a different cas file. Both the old and new (unreleased) hill-troll causes problems, but when I swap the cas for the Uruk berserker one I had no errors in 2 campaign battles and only 1 error in FOUR custom battles...
    Last edited by MasterOfNone; September 02, 2016 at 07:14 AM.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  17. #17
    webba84's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    MoN, is the number of troll battle crashes you get consistent between your old and new computers?

  18. #18
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Hard to say (I no longer have my laptop) but I'd say it was worse now with a better PC...
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."


  19. #19

    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    Necroing the hell out of this thread, but trolls seem to crash my game instantly. The only solution has been to play on very low settings, but if I accidentally move within 3D render range while unpaused, my game immediately CTDs. Is there some way I could simply remove the 3D models just for trolls, and have only their 2D sprites instead? I'm in the middle of a pretty epic campaign vs Adunabar in the north as the Elves, and it is presently unplayable.

    Edit: This post https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15530963 showed me how to do just that, and it seems to have worked so far at least. It looks like garbage, as up close the sprites look even worse than the old MTW1 sprites, but that's not a deal breaker for me for just two units so I will live. Perhaps this solution should be posted somewhere prominent?
    Last edited by SnuggleBunnies; January 08, 2020 at 12:12 AM.

  20. #20
    webba84's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Troll CTD - help required

    It's a good idea. I've sticked this thread and I'll add the information to our FAQ and announcement pages as well.

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