North RP planning thread - unofficial and WIP

[Pontifex Maximus]

The reign of King Rickard Stark has begun tumultuously. Although his House has asserted continued dominance over its immediate neighbors, The Marsh Kings remain entrenched in the swampy Neck, and have asserted control over Moat Cailin. To the west, the Ironborn have carved out small areas of control for themselves along the shores and Bear Island. To the east the Skaagosi remain the overlords of their island stronghold. The Night's Watch, although powerful, patrols a border hundreds of leagues long - and the Wildlings grow ever more daring. The Boltons and Umbers and other houses ever remember their ancient kingly titles and have been cowed only by the alliances and wars that hold their oaths in place to House Stark. The Kings of Winter will need no small amount of cunning, skill and strength to keep their kingdom united and the North firmly in their control.

All rules not modified by this thread will remain in effect, subject to flavor edits.

Playable Houses

Winterfell - House Stark of Winterfell, Lord of Winterfell, the King in the North. (Main Stark Branch, the King in the North) - Castle Cerwyn - House Cerwyn of Castle Cerwyn. - King's Course - House Cassel of King's Course. - Torrhen's Square - House Tallhart, Master's of Torrhen's Square. - Dawnforest - Special non-hereditary title bestowed by House Stark. Bearer titled "Lord Warden of The Wolfswood". Dreadfort - House Bolton of The Dreadfort. High Lords of The Weeping Water. (Former Kings) - Overton - House Overton of Overton. - Ethering - House Wells of Ethering. - Highpoint - House ???? of Highpoint. (available for a player to make up a house) Wolf's Den - House Greystark of Wolf's Den. High Lords of The White Knife. (Stark Cadet Branch) - Whitford - House Waterman of Whitford. - Oldcastle - House Locke of Oldcastle. (Former Kings) - White Knife - Special non-hereditary title bestowed by House Stark. Bearer titled "Lord Warden of The White Knife". Fealty owed directly to Winterfell. Moat Cailin - (Not Ruined) - No House. Controlled by House Reed, the Marsh Kings Karhold - House Karstark of Karhold. High Lords of The Grey Cliffs. (Stark Cadet Branch) - Weeping Bay - House Lightfoot of Weeping Bay. - Eastmelt - House Mollet of Eastmelt. Last Hearth - House Umber of Last Hearth. High Lords of The Last River. (Former Kings) - Seal Shore - House Holt of Seal Shore. - Last River - House Long of Last River. - Lonely Hills - House Lake of Lonely Hills Greywater Watch - House Reed of Greywater Watch. High Lords of The Neck, Marsh Kings of the Crannogmen (Independent) - Silvereed - House Fenn of Silvereed. - Churwell - House Marsh of Churwell - Greycronn - House Blackmyre of Greycronn Bear Island - House ????? of Bear Island. High Lords of The Bay of Ice. (Controlled by Ironborn) Barrowton (Barrowlands) - House Dustin of Barrowton. High Lords of The Barrowlands. (Former Kings) - Fever - House Marsh of The Fever River. - Goldgrass - House Stout of Goldgrass. The Broken Branch - No High Lord - Hornwood - House Hornwood of Hornwood - Ramsgate - House Woolfield of Ramsgate Sworn to White Harbor/Wolf's Den - Widow's Watch - House Flint of Widow's Watch - Sheepshead Hills- House Ashwood of Sheepshed Hills Sworn to White Harbor/Wolf's Den The Rills - House Ryswell of The Rills. High Lords of The Rills and The Stoney Shore. - Blackpool – House Slate of Blackpool Keep. (Former Kings) - Stony Shore - House Fisher of Stony Shore. (Former Kings) - Sea Dragon Point - House Condon of The Point. - Withered Heath - House Ironsmith of Withered Heath. - Rillwater Crossing- House Glenmore of Rillwater Crossing Flint's Finger - House Flint of Flint's Finger. High Lords of The Saltspear. - Cape Kraken - House ???? of Cape Kraken. (Controlled by Ironborn) - Flint Cliffs - House Flint of Flint Cliffs. Deepwood (Wolfswood) - House Glover of Deepwood Motte. Masters of The Wolfswood. (Former Kings) - Wolfswood - Clan Woods of The Wolfswood. - Ironrath - Clan Forrester of Blackgrove. - King's Grove - Clan Branch of King's Grove. - Acorn Grove - Clan Bole of Acorn Grove. The Mountains of The North - No High Chief - Flint Keep (Breakstone Hill) - Clan Flint of Flint Keep. (Former Kings) - Pinesend- Clan Liddle of Pinesend. - Crow's Edge - Clan Wull of Crow's Edge. - Arrendell - Clan Knott of Arrendell. - Shadowmoor - Clan Norrey of Shadowmoor. Skagosi Islands - No High Chief - All Independent Kings - Kingshouse (Skagos) - Clan Magnar of Kingshouse. - Deepdown - Clan Crowl of Deepdown. - Driftwood Hall - Clan Stane of Driftwood Hall. The Night's Watch* Castle Black: Seat of the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch Eastwatch by the Sea: Seat of the Commander of Eastwatch The Shadow Tower: Seat of the Commander of the Shadow Tower 1. Night's Watch characters gain a +1 charisma bonus with landed NPC lords or knights and a -10 modifier against any NPC beyond the wall. *These seats are necessarily the mechanical limits of castles able to be garrisoned by the Night's Watch at game start but are by no means the limit of expansion Any of the following castles may be built or rebuilt as may be the case: Freefolk 1. Register a tribe as a sellsword company 2. Select a tribe/culture: Cave People, Ice River Clan, Thenns, Hornfoots, Frozen Shore Clans 3. Free folk characters gain a +3 charisma bonus with other Wildling NPCs, Children of the Forest, or giants. They gain a -5 modifier to diplomacy with the Night's Watch Available titles: King Beyond the Wall Chieftain Recommended reading

Land Incomes

Very Rich Provinces (70,000 Golden Dragons): Winterfell The Dreadfort Karhold Rich Provinces = (60,000 Golden Dragons): Barrowtown The Rills Last Hearth Deepwood Motte Very Prosperous Provinces (50,000 Golden Dragons): Deepwood (Wolfswood) Wolf's Den Greywater Watch Hornwood Flint Keep Flint Cliffs Prosperous Provinces (40,000 Golden Dragons): Bear Island Hornwood Torrhen's Square Flint's Finger Poor Provinces (30,000 Golden Dragons): Blue Hills Weeping Bay Eastmelt Seal Shore Last River Aylesvale Dawnforest Castle Cerwyn King's Course Overton Sheepshead Hills Lonely Hills Wolfswood Blackgrove King's Grove Acorn Grove Tine's End Crow's Edge Knifesport Cape Kraken Sea Dragon Point Withered Heath Whitford Arrondale Shadowmoor White Knife Ethering Oldcastle Fever Ramsgate Widow's Watch Coldgrass Moat Cailin (Ruined: See 'Ruined Holdfasts' Rules) Oldcastle Deepdown Kingshouse Driftwood Hall The Mountains of the North The Stony Shore Silvereed Churwell Greycronn

Northern Levy

Huge Levy – 7,500 Points Winterfell Large Levy – 4,500 Karhold The Dreadfort Last Hearth Barrowtown Greywater Watch Medium Levy - 2,750 Points Flint's Finger (aka Flint's Keep) Deepwood Motte The Rills Hornwood Wolf's Den Small Levy – 1,500 Points Torrhen's Square Bear Island Shadowmoor White Knife Moat Cailin Very Small Levy – 500 Points Kingshouse Deepdown Driftwood Hall The Mountains of the North Widow's Watch Silvereed Churwell Greycronn Cape Kraken Fever Coldgrass Ramsgate Whitford White Knife Ethering Oldcastle Blazewater Stoney Shore Blue Hills Sea Dragon Point Withered Heath Weeping Bay Eastmelt Seal Shore Last River Aylesvale Dawnforest Castle Cerwyn King's Course Overton Sheepshead Hills Lonely Hills Wolfswood Blackgrove King's Grove Acorn Grove Tine's End Crow's Edge Arrondale

*Followers of the Seven Houses replaced with random extinct northern houses

Naval Levy

35 Levy Ships per region Oldcastle Whitsford Ramsgate Flint's Finger Deepwood Bear Island Stony Shore Widow's Watch Barrowtown Karhold

Night's Watch and Free Folk Rules

The Night's Watch or Free Folk can establish new settlements or castles meeting the following requirements: The Night's Watch Income for the Night's Watch The Night's Watch generates a very small income of their own, but rely on other sources such as donations for any other need. The Night's Watch will generate 1 Dragon of income per year for each point of soldiers in the order. Players may donate money to the Watch as they see fit. Any money owned by a player character forced to join the Night's Watch is seized, by moderator discretion (eg based on the circumstances) by any of... - The King - A Lord Paramount - The character's family - Another player character - The Night's Watch This strongly depends on circumstance. In the majority of cases any money will be seized by the family (as a Tarly would, for example, keep any of his money in Horn Hill or in a family-controlled account somewhere) but powerful characters such as the King or Lord Paramount may order it surrendered to them personally, giving the family the chance to refuse or agree. In instances where there isn't a family to seize the money (eg the player being forced to go to the Wall is a sellsword, merchant, freeman etc) it will normally be seized by the character forcing them to take the Black, but again moderation will review the circumstances. Items The Lord Commander may take for free any set of weapons and armour. All other characters will have only the equipment they show up to the Wall with or that are bought for them by the Night's Watch or other player characters. Night's Watch - Total Levy = 17,500 points Important Note: The Night's Watch does not have a levy as such. All points below are considered standing troops, levied for free at all times. Major Castles - 3,000 points Castle Black Large Castles - 2,000 points Shadow Tower Eastwatch-By-The-Sea Nightfort Medium Castles - 1,000 points Westwatch-By-The-Bridge Queensgate Small Castles - 500 points Deep Lake Sentinel Stand Greyguard Stonedoor Hoarfrost Hill Icemark Oakenshield Woodswatch-By-The-Pool Sable Hall Rimegate Long Barrow Torches Greenguard Night's Watch Levy Composition 20% Light Infantry 30% Heavy Infantry 30% Archers 10% Light Cavalry 10% Heavy Cavalry (This will give the Night's Watch a strength of 13,708 Black Brothers if all castles are fully manned.) Building new castles To build a new castle for the Night's Watch funds equal to 50 times their levy points must be raised or granted to the Watch. Thus a 500 point castle needs 25,000 Dragons to construct. Due to the poverty of the Watch these funds are more likely to come from donations from other parts of Westeros or from funds brought by third+ sons of wealthy Lords. A new castle takes 1 RL week to construct. The Watch must have the manpower ready to garrison it when it is completed (a minimum of one third of the points value of the castle), else it will instantly become an abandoned castle and will have to be rebuilt again before becoming useable. Minimum castle garrisons In order for castles to remain active, a minimum of one third of their points value must be garrisoned there. The castles may be left vacant for short periods (eg if the Night's Watch marches to war or post-battle) but at least one third of the points value must have their "home base" at the castle for it to remain active. If the Night's Watch lacks the manpower to maintain a castle at one third of the points value, it is considered abandoned and falls to ruin. It may be reconstructed for half the money it would cost to build it brand new. It is a requirement for the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch player to maintain an up to date list of castles and their garrisons, detailing clearly the castle's points value, the current garrison troops, and their total points value. Failure to do so may cause the moderators to act and shut down castles they feel are not sufficiently manned. Castles manned at game start (Changes per setting) Current setting = North-only pre-Aegon's Conquest Major Castles - 3,000 points Castle Black Large Castles - 2,000 points Shadow Tower Eastwatch-By-The-Sea Nightfort Medium Castles - 1,000 points Westwatch-By-The-Bridge Queensgate - Does not exist yet. Small Castles - 500 points Deep Lake - Does not exist yet. Sentinel Stand Greyguard - Does not exist yet. Stonedoor Hoarfrost Hill - Does not exist yet. Icemark Oakenshield - Does not exist yet. Woodswatch-By-The-Pool Sable Hall - Does not exist yet. Rimegate Long Barrow - Does not exist yet. Torches Greenguard - Does not exist yet. Replacing dead Brothers The Night's Watch is not like any normal Lordship or fief in Westeros: the brothers are sworn to celibacy and thus do not replace their dead on their own. The Watch relies on outside sources to replace those lost in battle and this can be represented ingame in the following manners: The d20 roll outcomes produce points of recruits, not numbers of men. 1. Every player character joining the Watch (willingly or not) rolls a d20*10 for new recruits. This can be represented ingame as co-conspirators forced into exile with him, or smallfolk inspired to join as they see a nobleman pledging his life to the cause. 2. Every year the Night's Watch may request a d20*20 roll for new recruits, representing people coming willingly to serve the order. 3. One Player Lord Paramount may be approached each year (cannot stack with 4, delete one) for prisoners or recruits. If they are willing to pay 40,000 Dragons (representing the cost of searching their realm's dungeons and transporting them to one place) the Night's Watch gets a d20*50 roll for new recruits. - Not appropriate for the current setting. 4. Three Player High Lords may be approached each year (cannot stack with 3, delete one) for prisoners or recruits. If they are willing to pay 20,000 Dragons (representing the cost of searching their fief's dungeons and transporting them to one place) the Night's Watch gets a d20*10 roll for new recruits. 5. Any player character may donate money to the Watch to aid their recruitment efforts at any time, with 20 Dragons producing 1 point of recruits. Free Folk: Free Folk can establish Villages (the equivalent of a minor castle) for 40,000 dragons. All Free Folk characters that do not have a "home village" will be considered as sellswords until they become village/tribal chieftains by establishing a village. Establishing these villages is completely an RP element. Individual chieftains must find a location for a village and RP its founding. This will determine its income. Once a village is founded, it may be upgraded as with any castle. The previous sellsword company will become a standing army for the chief and considered militia for the purpose of upkeep. It may then be treated as any militia would.

Trade

Trade All noble Houses start with two trade routes at the beginning of the game and can gain one more trade route through building upgrades and one more by employing a player controlled merchant. Each region carries a specific trade good which carries a bonus. Each designated High Lordship and its sworn houses may trade in the enumerated resource. Stone. +2 Siege Defence, -10% Building Cost Bronze. +1 to land battles, +250 Land Levy points Grains. +1,200 Militia Points Furs. +5% Income, +1 to any rolls to convince an AI character to do something (Includes calling your vassals to war) Amber. +2 to any rolls to convince an AI character to do something (Includes calling your vassals to war) Superior Steeds. -15% Professional Cavalry Hire Cost, -10% Professional Cavalry Upkeep Cost Gold. +10% Income Salted fish. +600 Militia Points, +1 to any rolls to convince an AI character to do something (Includes calling your vassals to war) Leather. -15% Professional Infantry Hire Cost, -10% Professional Infantry Upkeep Cost, -10% to purchasing weapons and armor Furs/skins: Wolf's Den, Greywater Watch Stone: Last Hearth Grains: Dreadfort Bronze: Karhold Amber: Winterfell Salted fish: Rills, Bear Island Gold: Flint's Fingers, Barrowtown Leather: Deepwood Superior Steeds: Broken Branch Trade income is now worth a standard rate of 10,000 per trade route. Merchant Trade: Merchants will still function as the outlined in the rules but they will also now have a new role to fulfill. That of freelance contractors who can add additional routes to a lord's trade for a set amount of time. To do this a merchant must be willing to use their caravans or ships or warehouse for a Lord's benefit. E.g. I have three ships. I use two for my own private ventures (usual income generation) and I hire one out to Lord Serry for trade. This mean the ship will not generate usual profit but 10,000 dragons for the Lord less whatever fees the Merchants charges. This will benefits both parties, but beware, a greedy Lord may try to seize your assets! Note, in order to prevent abuse, if a merchant character is created solely for the reason to add an additional trade route for a lord or a group of lords and he or she is not consistently played, then the mod team reserve the right to terminate the merchant and his contracts. Trade Contract Lengths:All NPC trade routes will only last for three years before they must be renegotiated. This includes trade routes for Essos. Trade routes between two players will never expire unless one side wants to intentionally break the agreement. Trade Difficulty for NPC Trade Routes: Easy: Base 10/20 chance Medium: Base 5/20 chance Hard: Base 1/20 chance Trade Modifiers: In order to represent their positions as a major port, trade center, or influence (like Lord Paramounts or the King), certain cities/provinces will gain a modifier to increase the chance of gaining a trade deal. Any two bonuses can stack. House of Influence: +1 -- Defined as an LP House or any House that holds a powerful position (Small Council, non-hereditary title held by family member, Marshal of your region, etc) – Can only be considered once so multiple positions do not stack. Renewal Bonus: +1 from attempting to renew a trade agreement Center of Trade: +2 Major Port City: +3 -- Defined as being any city/province with a +1 trade lane Merchant Bonus: +5 In addition, any bonuses from charisma related things like the actual trait or trade resources only grant half of their value rounded down with a minimum of 1. So a +7 combined charisma bonus becomes a +3 modifier while a +1 charisma is still +1 for that minimum.

Regional Bonuses

Winterfell Bastion of Strength: Though those in the North will fight on even if Winterfell is taken, it represents the strength of the North, and whoever holds it gains a huge morale boost and the loyalty of many in the North, allowing its owner to recruit troops at 75% of the normal cost, though upkeep remains the same. In addition, Lord Stark receives an additional +2 to his AI reaction rolls when dealing with Northern Lords. Wolf's Den As descendants of House Stark they are of the royal blood, and therefore gain an advantage in their interactions with other Houses. +1 AI Interactions with Northern Lords. Dreadfort ​Ruling Through Intimidation: +2 to AI reaction rolls for its vassals. Greywater Watch Wandering Castle: Greywater Watch is built on one of the strange floating islands found in the swamps of the Neck, and is notoriously difficult to find. Any wishing to siege the castle must roll to see if they can find it (20% chance). If they do not, they may try again in a year. Dangerous Swamps: Greywater Watch is surrounded by bogs and marshlands, almost impossible to navigate without a local guide. Any army wishing to pass through the neck must either have the permission of whoever holds Greywater Watch or lose a % of their men dependent on a d15 (so up to 15%) Bear Island Targeted by Raiders: Despite its lack of wealth, Bear Island is often attacked by raiders from the Frozen Shore or the Iron Islands. As such, all characters have some naval prowess, and get +1 to sea captain near the island. Warrior Women: When the men of Bear Island are away, the women are left to defend their homes, and this has created a warrior culture among the women. Bear Island gains an additional 750 defenders when besieged (1d10). Moat Cailin The Causeway: Moat Cailin controls the only safe land route out of the Neck from the South, and into it from the North. Those who wish to travel through have three options - besiege the fortress, pass through with the permission of the Lord who holds it, or risk the dangerous swamps, losing a % of their men dependent on a d10 (so up to 10%) Skagos Perilous Waters: The mountainous island of Skagos is surrounded by rough waters, so that any attacking the island by sea get -2 to their rolls. Deepwood Motte The Wolfswood: This sprawling, dense forest can prove a dangerous maze for those unfamiliar with it, and provides excellent opportunities for ambush. The houses that live around Deepwood Motte are excellent woodsmen, so the controller of the castle gains +3 to battle rolls in the woods, including at Deepwood Motte itself. Barrowton Prosperity of the Barrowlands: Barrowton sits upon one of the most fertile areas of the North on a great plain near one of the tributaries of the Fever River. This makes it an idea location for commerce and trade. +10% to land income. Karhold The Karstarks are the principal bannermen of House Stark, and fearsome warriors. The lords of Karhold pass down an ancestral weapon from one father to the son, and have for decades. (Karstark character may select one free weapon that is the ancestral weapon of their house) Castle Black The Wall provides a huge defensive bonus, and secret stores may hold the key to banishing an ancient evil. +8 siege rolls, Obsidian weapon stores. Shadow Tower The fortifications of Shadow Tower provide strong defenses. +4 to Siege rolls. Obsidian stores. Eastwatch Hidden obsidian stores Additional bonuses may be added based upon RP in the founding of new castles, villages, etc.

Additional Military Rules for Northern Setting

1. Militia points may not be spent on heavy cavalry. 2. Professional points may not be spent on heavy cavalry, elite cavalry, or AOR cavalry. 3. For professional troop recruitment, consider the flavor of the setting. "Dismounted knights" therefore might be better characterized as simply "Heavy Infantry" as a vanilla characterization or something else such as "Bolton Heavy Swordsmen (heavy infantry)"

Expressions of Interest

House Stark King: Skylord, Iron Aquilifer, Pontifex Family: LM, Iron Aquilifer, Gandalf Reeds: Trot, Skylord Greystark: Poach, Skylord Karstark: Vilgefortz, Iron Aquilifer, Skylord Hornwood: Vilgefortz, LM, Oznerol Wulls: LM Ryswell: Pinkerton, Barry Goldwater Norrey: Blastoise Glover: Iron Aquilifer, Poach, Barry Goldwater Umber: Iron Aquilifer, Jokern Dustin: Gandalf Bolton: Jokern, Skylord, Pontifex Flint (of Flint Keep): Jokern Locke: Oznerol Players who voted in the other thread but have made no claim yet: Oznerol Xion Lillyana Mic1402 Barry Goldwater

[Pontifex Maximus]

I'm doing this by myself and without any official statement that this will definitely be our next setting. I imagine we will set up a poll for that soon. But I think having this here will answer many questions about what I have in mind for this setting. Feel free to make suggestions here.

***PLEASE NOTE***
1. House Stark will have 2-3 players cotnrolling different family members in it. These players will work on a family tree by themselves and control characters as they agree. It will be during the reign of King Rickard Stark, son of Jon Stark.

2. Houses Greystark and Karstark are of Stark blood, and are cadet branches. They will be controlled by single players.

3. Several titles exist in this game that are "lost." This means they can be revived.

4. Several places are independent of Stark rule.

5. Night's Watch and Free Folk are playable.

6. Although not specifically mentioned, Andal Sellswords may also be played.

7. Ironborn are unplayable with the exception of an Ironborn sellsword character currently occupying Bear Island.

8. If any region has no high lord or high chieftain, that title may be claimed. (credit to trot for that idea)

9. Opinions on Valyrian Steel? Ice and Longclaw only appeared 400-500 years before Aegon's landing. From the best of my research I can't figure out where Rickard's reign begins. (It might be that eventually we open up the possibility for houses to get VS weapons when Andals start coming in higher volume?)

10. Please feel free to indicate which House/character you would like to take (NON-BINDING)

11. At the end of the day I'm here trying to create a game you will enjoy.

[Trot]

All right the Following houses were reduced from petty Kings to Vassals during the Stark's Conquests

The Flint's of Breakstone Hill

The Slates of Blackpool

The Umbers of Last Hearth

The Lockes of Oldcatle

The Glovers of Deepwood Motte

The Fishers of Stony Shore

The Ryders of the Rills

and possibly the Blackwoods who once claimed to have ruled the entity of the Wolf's Wood before being driven south by Stark.

Dreadfort was said to have ruled from the last River to the White Knife as far south as Sheepshead Hills.

Add to the list of Playable houses the three sisters as House Stark, and House Arryn often waged wars for control of the Island.

Mormont did not rule Bear Island until after Rodrick Stark reclaimed the Island for the North one of Hoares Children would rule it if it were to start in Ironborn hands. Stony Shore would also be in Ironborn hands depending on out time period.

Now according to my copy of A World of Ice and Fire King Rickard added the Marsh to his demesne, It would be Theon Stark the Hungry Wolf who dealt with the Andal invasion(He also drove the Ironborn from the Cape Kracken and from Bear Island for the first time.) He also went to Essos to raise Lands from the Andles taking a number of towns and villages and putting them to the sword. He seems to have come after Rickard so Cape Kracken would have to be in Iron Born Hands.

Skagos has a legacy of independence and often caused trouble for the Starks

The Wulls are the mightiest of the mountain clans.

The Marsh Kings were not seen as traditional Kings, but more as the First Among equals. They probably operate under a more traditional clan structure.

The New Gift is still in Stark hands.

The Starks owned a sword called Ice before the Valyrian Steel blade came into existence it and Long Claw were possibly spoils from the raids on Andalos.

The Manderly's were given the Land that would become White Harbor 1000 years before the Conquest.

[Pontifex Maximus]

All right the Following houses were reduced from petty Kings to Vassals during the Stark's Conquests

The Flint's of Breakstone Hill

The Slates of Blackpool

The Umbers of Last Hearth

The Lockes of Oldcatle

The Glovers of Deepwood Motte

The Fishers of Stony Shore

The Ryders of the Rills

and possibly the Blackwoods who once claimed to have ruled the entity of the Wolf's Wood before being driven south by Stark.

I wouldn't be opposed to any of those Houses claiming themselves as kings. I'm just not sure that even in this setting that at the outstart, if they did, they would survive.

Dreadfort was said to have ruled from the last River to the White Knife as far south as Sheepshead Hills.

Isn't that reflected? if not, then how could that better be reflected?

Add to the list of Playable houses the three sisters as House Stark, and House Arryn often waged wars for control of the Island.

Ah interesting. Should that be added as playable, or just as a location potentially open for warfare for ambitious lords? I guess what I'm asking is how should we do it: Arryn in control of it currently with the Stark men attacking to wrest control, or the opposite?

Mormont did not rule Bear Island until after Rodrick Stark reclaimed the Island for the North one of Hoares Children would rule it if it were to start in Ironborn hands. Stony Shore would also be in Ironborn hands depending on out time period.

I believe that's more or less reflected.

The Marsh Kings were not seen as traditional Kings, but more as the First Among equals. They probably operate under a more traditional clan structure.

That's important to know for whoever plays the Reeds. They are primus inter pares.

The New Gift is still in Stark hands.

Interesting, how should that effect the proposed ruleset if at all?

The Starks owned a sword called Ice before the Valyrian Steel blade came into existence it and Long Claw were possibly spoils from the raids on Andalos.

Right. Do you have an opinion on when that sword might have become the VS Ice?

The Manderly's were given the Land that would become White Harbor 1000 years before the Conquest.

When was Rickard King in relation to the Conquest? I still don't know!

There is no word on what New Gift's original name was, but the GoT mod calls it North Road and ruled by a house named Queenscrown, which is actually a location in the New Gift. Most likely named after Queen Alysanne. So I would say that New Gift/North Road would be an available title for King in the North to grant and would be directly sworn to Winterfell. We could even have a title attached to it.

So make another hereditary title?

[Dirty Chai]

I think I'd like to play Hornwood or Karstark

[Lucius Malfoy]

There is no word on what New Gift's original name was, but the GoT mod calls it North Road and ruled by a house named Queenscrown, which is actually a location in the New Gift. Most likely named after Queen Alysanne. So I would say that New Gift/North Road would be an available title for King in the North to grant and would be directly sworn to Winterfell. We could even have a title attached to it.

Also the wikia says that it was Rickard's son who wrestled the Ironborn for control of Bear Island while Rickard himself extended rule into the Neck and subjugated the Marsh Kings.

My guess is that the Blackwoods are already exiled to the Riverlands, mostly because there is no title in the Wolfswood for the Blackwoods to take.

Edit: Damn! I was hoping to look into Hornwoods too.

Well, I guess I could still throw my interest down for Hornwoods, Wulls and a Stark character (not the King, but a brother of Rodrik).

[Dirty Chai]

Andal invasion was supposedly somewhere between 6 and 2 thousand years before the timeframe of the books

[Lucius Malfoy]

Well if Jon Stark, Rickard's father, created Wolf's Den and the Greystarks were to rule Wolf's Den for five centuries, followed by House Flint for a century, House Locke for almost two centuries... and plenty of more houses. Then it was attacked and burned by the Arryn Kings and was controlled by slavers during the reign of Edrick Stark... I would say this is maybe a two to three thousand years before the Conquest. Thus one or two thousand years before the Manderlys arrive.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Wolf's_Den

So I would say the Andals are still invading the Seven Kingdoms south of the Neck and much of the North has been united under the Starks for several generations. I would pin this setting at -3,000 to -2,000 BC (Before Conquest). So right in the middle of the Andal invasions, but a very long ways off from Targaryens coming to Westeros.

[Xion]

Then the Sisters may be independent of the Eyrie as it was the first invasion of the Sisters around two thousand years prior to Aegon's Landing that led to the Sistermen swearing fealty to the Arryns and causing the war over the islands.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I am not very opposed to moving up timelines if it suits the game. For example, let's say the Greystarks die in week 2. Very unlikely but let's just say so for the purpose of argument. If that happened I wouldn't be opposed to the Manderlys showing up soon thereafter. Why not?

On the same token, let's say the Starks somehow bring all the independent regions in the North under their control in the first 4 weeks. I wouldn't be opposed to starting to introduce Andal sellsword companies, Ironborn reavers/conquerors, or worse on the North.

[Dirty Chai]

Andals are still possibly just coming over as adventurers and mercenaries most likely, I imagine it's possible we could treat this as the very first initial part of the invasion; like Hengist and Horsa as foederati for Vortigern or the Normans as mercenaries in southern Italy

[Pontifex Maximus]

Andals are still possibly just coming over as adventurers and mercenaries most likely, I imagine it's possible we could treat this as the very first initial part of the invasion; like Hengist and Horsa as foederati for Vortigern or the Normans as mercenaries in southern Italy

I agree. No reason why they can't be sellswords

[Lucius Malfoy]

Actually, I would go as far to say -4,000 to -3,000 BC at the max while minimal would be -3,000 to -2,000 BC. Either way, we start in the middle or tail end of the Andal Invasion. So we will be getting plenty of Andal raiding or invasion events.

[Dirty Chai]

Actually, I would go as far to say -4,000 to -3,000 BC at the max while minimal would be -3,000 to -2,000 BC. Either way, we start in the middle or tail end of the Andal Invasion. So we will be getting plenty of Andal raiding or invasion events.

Never said there would be no raiding. The eastern coast of the North, including the Wolf's Den is like basically the Saxon Shore in Britannia. I'd intend to have some backstory with a house there with Andal Raiders and settler attempts.

[Trot]

AWOIAF isn't giving me any dates, but it seems the Sisters would start in Arryn hands, and be conquered by Theon Stark which is set after the reign of Rickard how far after is unknown. Theon also landed an army in the Fingers, but was repulsed by the Arryn's.

In a Rikard setting the Iron Born control Cape Kraken Bear Island and Stoney Shore.

I just noticed I doubled Shepshead Hills and will need to fix that, but I got work tomorrow, so I'm going to bed soon.

Put me down as the claimant for the Reeds I guess I'm not 100% sure on what I'm playing yet though.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Actually, I would go as far to say -4,000 to -3,000 BC at the max while minimal would be -3,000 to -2,000 BC. Either way, we start in the middle or tail end of the Andal Invasion. So we will be getting plenty of Andal raiding or invasion events.

I think we should be flexible on exact dates like that to maximize conflict.

AWOIAF isn't giving me any dates, but it seems the Sisters would start in Arryn hands, and be conquered by Theon Stark which is set after the reign of Rickard how far after is unknown. Theon also landed an army in the Fingers, but was repulsed by the Arryn's.

In a Rikard setting the Iron Born control Cape Kraken Bear Island and Stoney Shore.

I just noticed I doubled Shepshead Hills and will need to fix that, but I got work tomorrow, so I'm going to bed soon.

Put me down as the claimant for the Reeds I guess I'm not 100% sure on what I'm playing yet though.

Do you have a source for Ironborn control over Cape Kraken and Stoney Shore?

What would have these guys (pre-conquest northmen) looked like? I mean do you guys have like a historic reference, so I can picture them as something different than cavemen (which is what comes to my mind now )

I'd like to state my interest in House Ryswell

Picture the Anglo-Saxons but with bronze age tehcnology.

[Pinkerton]

What would have these guys (pre-conquest northmen) looked like? I mean do you guys have like a historic reference, so I can picture them as something different than cavemen (which is what comes to my mind now )

I'd like to state my interest in House Ryswell

[Dirty Chai]

What would have these guys (pre-conquest northmen) looked like? I mean do you guys have like a historic reference, so I can picture them as something different than cavemen (which is what comes to my mind now )

I'd like to state my interest in House Ryswell

Picture the Anglo-Saxons but with bronze age tehcnology.

Like this, but with a lot of fur:


I also remember speculating with Oz once that maybe the First Men used chariots like the Celts did during the Bronze Age (and continued to use them in Britain until conquest by Romans)

[Lucius Malfoy]

Alright some major updates:
- I have added in all the houses that were formerly kings
- Cape Kraken is controlled by the Ironborn as well as Bear Island, but Stony Shore is not controlled by them. They fall under Ironborn control during the reign of Theon Stark and Harrag Hoare, the first Hoare to become King of the Iron Islands. Instead, they are still controlled by House Fisher, which is also a former First Men King.
- There are a couple locations with ???? houses which means those who ruled them before the current houses of the GoT timeline did not exist. So those locations can have made-up houses either by a player or added in by whoever their liege is.
- Moat Cailin is controlled by the Marsh Kings until they are annexed by the Starks.

Also, it seems that a House named Ryders once ruled the Rills before the Ryswells. Although it doesn't state when this happens. As there is vague evidence, we will keep it as Ryswell.

[Blastoise Groudon]

I did some research and I won't mind doing Shadowmoor if possible. When the time comes I can try to make art for you guys if time permits on my end.