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Thread: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

  1. #1

    Default How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    What's the best way to use these units (includes other thureophoroi-like units like the Illyrioi Hoplitai)?
    I usually use them in the flanks like they are supposed to but I'm not satisfied with my use of them against other infantry attempting to flank my line.


    How do you guys deploy them? Should I use them as reserve units like elite infantry?

  2. #2

    Default Re: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    I just use them as line infantry, generally. I know they aren't really meant for that role, but they do a pretty good job of it, imo. Line infantry, flankers, half-skirmishers/assault troops...They're fairly versatile, if a bit light on armor.

  3. #3

    Default Re: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    What's the best way to use these units (includes other thureophoroi-like units like the Illyrioi Hoplitai)?
    I usually use them in the flanks like they are supposed to but I'm not satisfied with my use of them against other infantry attempting to flank my line.


    How do you guys deploy them? Should I use them as reserve units like elite infantry?
    I generally build an infantry line with my heaviest units to the center, and working my way out from there to left and right, with the elites on the right and mercenaries on the left (because historical roleplaying and the right wing is the position of honour) for instance

    Ioudaioi - Thureophoroi/Hemithorakitai - Hoplitai - Phalangitai - Phalangitai - Argyraspidai - Hypaspistai - Peltastai Makedones - Uazali, and then a screen of skirmishers with javelins in the center, slingers to the flanks (so they can move out to the flanks to avoid causing friendly-fire as the centers close), and archers (ahistorically) cowering behind the center of the line

    In theory, Spearmen with javelins are well-suited to guarding the flanks of heavy-infantry because they can accord themselves well in hand-to-hand, respond to skirmishers with javelins, delay enemy cav until reinforced, and can be detached to support outmatched cavalry on the wings if needed (and move fast enough to make it to an often distant cavalry fight)

    EDIT: I don't often keep many units in reserve, if I do it will usually be an elite infantry unit behind one of the lighter units on the flanks of the infantry line, such as putting peltastai makedones behind the Uazali, instead of putting the Peltasts in the main battle-line, so they don't take as many casualties from missiles. Once the Screening unit is engaged, the reserve unit is used to run around the flank of the engaged enemy, or to counter any flanking enemy units. I don't keep anything behind my center except archers, if the center routs then a lot of other things will have already gone terrible wrong
    Last edited by Wolfgang von Zweibrücken; October 10, 2016 at 12:19 AM.




    "That war is a terrible thing I agree, but it is not so terrible that we should submit to anything in order to avoid it. For why do we all vaunt our civic equality and liberty of speech and all that we mean by the word freedom, if nothing is more advantageous than peace?" — Polybios, Historiai, IV.31

  4. #4

    Default Re: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    I've been struck by this question again, since I've been doing a proper play-through and using Hellenistic armies extensively. Hemithorakitai are really versatile, I tend to put them on the extreme flanks, both to cover my slingers/javelineers and be ready to march around the flank when my line is engaged. I also put my archers behind the centre of the line.

    They have the added bonus of having free upkeep, which makes them good for stiffening a garrison. My usual garrisons comprise Hoplitai Haploi, Akontistai and Toxotai, a single unit of Hemithorakitai steadies the line and gives something additional.

    I'm not entirely sure what to do with the glut of Thureophoroi I now have after the reform; I should probably relegate the Hemithorakitai solely to garrison duties, and replace them with the former. Even less sure how to handle the late reform reducing my Hoplitai, who are the anchor at the centre of the line.

  5. #5

    Default Re: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    The Thureophoroi are excellent on the flanks of the main battle line. The enemy skirmisher cavalry typically arrives there. In order to avoid a lot of casualties from the skirmish, I position the Thureophoroi is loose order.


    Also, if the Thureophoroi flank a phalanx in the main battle line, I position the Thureophoroi somewhat behind. This way, when they throw the javelins they move forward and position right next to the phalanx.


    It is also prudent to keep one or two non-javelin spearmen in reserve - in case enemy cavalry tries to attack you from behind. Without the javelins these spearmen can immediately move in to engage.


    Regarding the Hemithorakitai, they can be used in the same manner as the Thureophoroi. One important difference though, the Hemithorakitai have larger shields, which means that they can be deployed against archer cavalry. Armor and shields are good protection against arrows.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    I get all these light spearmen together in a squad and move with my cavalry, after my cavalry catch enemy cavalry on the flank and fix them in place, my light spearmen catch up and join the fray.

  7. #7

    Default Re: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    I generally divide my infantry into three "classes" - heavy, medium, and light.

    "Light" are skirmishers - javelin units, archers, slingers. These deploy ahead of the army and use their missiles to harass the foe. Once the lines meet (or rather, are about to meet) I withdraw them behind my main force where they act as ranged support.

    "Heavy" are the main line - heavy armour, big shields, all that good stuff. These are the brawlers who aren't expected to move around too much but are expected to fight toe-to-toe in grueling combat until everyone is dead or fleeing.

    And finally, and most pertinent to the thread, "Medium" are simply infantry who can do either of the above (though not as well as the specialists, obviously) and whose role is therefore versatile. They can skirmish in a pinch, they can fight brutal melees in a pinch - these units don't need a lot of support and do everything sort-of well.

    Often battles will not end up as tidy as you want them and units will be caught out of position, outflanked, or otherwise caught in a bad situation. "Mediums" like thureophoroi will always be able to respond to these situations in some way. Mostly I deploy them on the flanks of my main heavy line and have them act according to the battlefield situation - getting outflanked by cavalry? Use them to form a perpendicular line of battle so your heavies don't get rear-charged. Enemy committed all his troops? Swing them round the back and outflank the bastards.

    I always like to have at least 4 "Medium" infantry in a stack to give my armies some flexibility.

    tl:dr - Thureophoroi = versatility

  8. #8

    Default Re: How do you use the Hemithorakitai and the Thureophoroi?

    It depends on campaign progress.

    First 50-ish turns, they're decent line spearmen and quite abundant in starting armies, so they're positioned on far flanks, guarding against cavalry. Later on, as they become more "filler" troops, they move close to center, next to central phalangitai. In my experience, AI tends to attack center and far flanks, so this area sees lower intensity of combat.

    And they're cheap and quick to replace, which is important as my artillery fire usually arcs over my line at their section, and sometimes there are misfires.

    They're not bad as reserves, but I prefer Peltenai/Promachoi and similar troops for this role, as they can support the main line with javelins over the heads of phalangitai quite effectively while waiting for their turn.

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