US Presidential Election 2016: Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump

[empr guy]

That depends, can he issue an executive order so which ever staffer took his phone away has to give it back? If not we should be safe from him getting onto twitter.

[snuggans]

umm, No. What this shows is that outgo was higher than income. That means there was no surplus. If there had been a surplus then the debt would have gone down.
Facts don't care about popularity.

read your own links, it says 'outstanding debt' not budget summaries

None of Clinton's 'scandals' are blatantly racist like Trump's birther movement was, but they will be just as frustrating. The alt-right has embraced conspiracy theory and partially spread it to their mainstream GOP counterparts, so if Clinton wins, we're in for a long 4-8 years of countless wasted taxpayer money on congressional investigations that prove nothing. But we're in for an even longer 4-8 years if Trump wins and starts a war with Iran because they provoked him on the size of his genitalia on twitter, so...

even if he does not start a war, he still does a lot of damage, for example he's going to up protectionism and start a couple of trade wars while reducing tax revenue while spending heavily on military, that's a recipe for economic disaster worse than the Great Recession. and allowing Assad and Putin to run roughshod over Syria is going to lead to an even weaker EU and NATO, creating an environment of uncertainty and compartmentalization, which is something we haven't seen since before WW2 days

[Infidel144]

read your own links, it says 'outstanding debt' not budget summaries

Yes, outstanding debt. Outstanding debt increased. Every year. Every year since 57. It increased because spending was higher than revenue.
Spending -> revenue = deficit. Spending <- revenue = surplus.
Maths is hard...

[snuggans]

you realize you can have a surplus while debt still increases?

[Infidel144]

You realize that if you spend more than you take in you don't have a surplus?

Snuggans attempt to spin the fact that there was no real surplus, and has not been a surplus since 1957, is vaguely amusing, but the Treasury's cold hard numbers will refute any attempts.
Those numbers are the facts. They don't care about popularity, they don't care about spin.

[Phier]

Well I'm deciding how to spend tonight. Waiting for results, or playing PoE with global chat off (its really awful, think Barrens chat early wow) and just waking up to see if we have a long term future in this country or a slow slip into mediocrity and violent tribalism. Smart money is still on Tribalism, this election is 12 years too late I think, but people tend to not react to problems until said problems are already out of control.

I'm really leaning to PoE, working on a new build.

[Adar]

My plan is to go to bed early and check my mobile in the middle of the night in case I wake up.

I never watched the apprentice and I will just ignore USA if Trump becomes president. At least some of the members here seem to live a happy life convincing themselves that Germany is the leader of the free world .

[EmperorBatman999]

I really hope that no matter who wins, they will rise to the occasion and be at least a decent president come Inauguration Day.

[fkizz]

this election is 12 years too late I think, but people tend to not react to problems until said problems are already out of control.

Wisdom of Falcon. Way too true.

[seany65]

I really hope that no matter who wins, they will rise to the occasion and be at least a decent president come Inauguration Day.

Well, I suppose you should win a prize for being so optimistic, EmperorBatman999.

I'm just wondering, in Britain there has been absoloutely no mention at all, in any way shape or form of the other 2 cadidates in that poll list, so are they getting much of a mention in the yank press and tv?

None of Clinton's 'scandals' are blatantly racist like Trump's birther movement was, but they will be just as frustrating. The alt-right has embraced conspiracy theory and partially spread it to their mainstream GOP counterparts, so if Clinton wins, we're in for a long 4-8 years of countless wasted taxpayer money on congressional investigations that prove nothing. But we're in for an even longer 4-8 years if Trump wins and starts a war with Iran because they provoked him on the size of his genitalia on twitter, so...

Hmmm. Acco, are you sure there won't be a war with Iran if Hillary gets in? It seems to me that 'war' against Russia and agaist Iran seems to be on the agenda of the west. In fact, it seems to have been on the aganda against a wide variety of countries for a quite a few years.

[snuggans]

obviously nobody wants war with anyone, but the US must defend itself and its allies from pretenders like Iran and Russia, whom want to be seen as superpowers and feel like acting out is one way they can get their point across that they want to be noticed and "equal"

does Hillary have to declare war on Iran? not at all, Iran has already been swiping at international troops in Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan. we already are in de facto state of war against them and their militias and terrorist groups. we have already been going after their 'special groups' for years

and arming Ukraine is not wanting war with Russia, it's just helping an innocent and relatively weaker nation like Ukraine defend itself from the annexing bully

[Prodromos]

I'm just wondering, in Britain there has been absoloutely no mention at all, in any way shape or form of the other 2 cadidates in that poll list, so are they getting much of a mention in the yank press and tv?

Unfortunately, whenever Gary is given any press coverage he somehow turns it into BAD press coverage.

A few examples:

[GrumpyPirate]

Arent we all missing the point that it is not only the job and moral obligation of a defence attourney to DEFEND their client but it is also the foundation of any fair and impartial legal system. Someone who commited crimes like he was accused of deserves a very non-chemical castration in my oppinion however they also deserve a FAIR and impartial trial which is properly executed. Otherwise we start a slide into a grey zone which ends in a very bad place.

Unfortunately, whenever Gary is given any press coverage he somehow turns it into BAD press coverage

Well we are talking of a guy who didnt know what or where Aleppo is. Just because you dislike the main parties and wish you had a good third option doesnt excuse voting on a guy that clearly has no idea what he is talking about and actualy manages to make Trump or Nigel Farage seem knowlegable. Wishing for a good third option does not create it

[Prodromos]

Arent we all missing the point that it is not only the job and moral obligation of a defence attourney to DEFEND their client but it is also the foundation of any fair and impartial legal system. Someone who commited crimes like he was accused of deserves a very non-chemical castration in my oppinion however they also deserve a FAIR and impartial trial which is properly executed. Otherwise we start a slide into a grey zone which ends in a very bad place.

There is no obligation to volunteer to defend a client or to lie, however.

[GrumpyPirate]

There is no obligation to volunteer to defend a client or to lie, however.

So your saying someone else should defend them but shouldnt they refuse as well based on this then? And if they refuse shouldnt the next one as well? Keep going this way and then no one defends them and right there you have the breakdown of the system. Of course its not so easy or simple and the whole thing most certanly deserves discussion but to make it out to be such a horrible unexusable point as anti-clinton campaigners do is simply neither a fair nor balanced view and most certanly not tinged with the necessary realism

This is not even mentioning it in relation to the person she is running against as that is a whole different point.

[Phier]

On a completely non partisan note...



Am I the only one who finds these childish and somewhat insulting to adults?

I get the concept of social proof, but do we really need to act like 2nd graders with gold star stickers over doing something like voting? Anyone swayed to vote by a sticker should probably not be allowed to vote.

[GrumpyPirate]

Very true on a very disturbing level.

The greatest good and the greatest weakness of democracy will always be the same. Everyone can vote.

[swabian]

Very true on a very disturbing level.

The greatest good and the greatest weakness of democracy will always be the same. Everyone can vote.

Or candidate.

[conon394]

Infidel144

(edits below missed the post since this morning)

You are mistaking Outstanding Debt and Surpluses and using how a surplus is used. There was a surplus of revenue over spending in both time frames and continued outstanding debt well. I may have a surplus in any one year in my budget - no matter if I choose to retire outstanding debt does not impact on the reality of surplus.

In any case recent history still supports snuggans' conclusion - seeing as Bush tax cuts followed a surplus that was not inherently stable (and the budget projections at the time of course proved very inaccurate) - producing a systemic loss of revenue that was balanced by any systemic reduction in spending.

--------

edit: You are still ignoring the basic difference between Outstanding debt and a yearly surplus or lack of such. Importantly you are ignoring the very real fact that economics of each era you cite are/were very different. It was for example argued fairly strongly by many that retiring debt would be a mistake given how that might impact bond markets.

Also you run into a different problem in that if your going to cite outstanding debt - you really need to cite the value of all assets held by the Government. Once you have that then you could accurately judge how the outstanding balance of the US government debt or assets was altered in any one year.

Treasury's cold hard numbers will refute any attempts.
Those numbers are the facts. They don't care about popularity, they don't care about spin.

OK so come back when you have a tally for all US government assets - because you are missing a really big part of hard facts.

[Acco]

The Trump campaign is essentially suing Nevada for letting too many Hispanics vote. Live footage.