View Poll Results: Choose a setting

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  • Option I

    1 6.25%
  • Option II

    4 25.00%
  • Option III

    9 56.25%
  • Other (explain and make an argument!)

    2 12.50%
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Thread: New Direction

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  1. #1

    Default New Direction

    For better or worse, the cat is out of the bag with talk of a restart. This is due largely in part because of the problem replacing LPs and our rather tangled web of player controlled houses makign it hard to do much in the RP that does not look like metagaming. In this post I will give an objective explanation of the most promising next settings for our game, in my next post I will be arguing for my preferred scenario. Use this non-binding​ poll to indicate tentative preferences.

    I will let LM edit in any descriptions of the two Targaryen settings as I am unfamiliar with the lore behind it.

    Option I - Reign of Duncan the Small

    WIP Character Roster
    Reign of Duncan the Small (244 AC)
    - Aegon V (44) (Dead at the beginning of 244) - married to Betha Blackwood
    - Duncan the Small (23) - married to Jenny of Oldstones
    - Jaehaerys Targaryen (20) - married to Shaera
    - Shaera Targaryen (19) - married to Jaehaerys
    - Aerys Targaryen (1)
    - Daeron Targaryen (16)
    - Rhaelle Targaryen (14) - betrothed to Ormund Baratheon

    - Vaella the Simple (22)
    - Daenora Targaryen (38) - Maegor's mother
    - Maegor Targaryen (12)

    - Aemon Targaryen (46)
    - Daella Targaryen (45)
    - Rhae Targaryen (42)

    - Aerys Blackfyre (53) - Captain-General of the GC
    - Calla Blackfyre (59) - Widower of Aegor Bittersteel (mod has him dead in 241 AC)
    - Daemon Blackfyre (27)
    - Maelys Blackfyre (24)


    Option II - Reign of Aerys I

    WIP Character Roster

    Reign of Aerys I (211 AC)
    - Aerys I (40) - married to Aelinor Penrose

    - Rhaegel Targaryen (38) - married to Alys Arryn
    - Aelor Targaryen (8)
    - Aelora Targaryen (8)
    - Daenora Targaryen (5)

    - Maekar Targaryen (37) - widower of Dyanna Dayne
    - Daeron the Drunken (21) - married to Kiera Tumitis, widower of Baelor Breakspear
    - Aerion Brightflame (19)
    - Aemon Targaryen (13)
    - Daella Targaryen (12)
    - Aegon Targaryen (11) - Being educated by Ser Duncan the Tall
    - Rhae Targaryen (9)

    - Brynden Bloodraven (35)
    - Shaera Targaryen (29)
    - Daenerys Targaryen (38) - Married to House Martell
    - Gwenys Rivers (36) - sister of Bloodraven (might be best to keep them out of the scenario)
    - Mya Rivers (37) - sister of Bloodraven (might be best to keep them out of the scenario)

    - Aegor Bittersteel (38)
    - Calla Blackfyre (25) - married to Aegor Bittersteel
    - Daemon Blackfyre (25)
    - Haegon Blackfyre (24) - married to Daenaerys
    - Aenys Blackfyre (23) - married to Elynna Plumm (might be best to omit this)
    - Daenerys Blackfyre (22) - married to Haegon
    - Aerion Blackfyre (21) - married to Merela
    - Aerys Blackfyre (20)
    - Merela Blackfyre (18) - married to Aerion


    Option III - (Single Kingdom) The North, Pre-Aegon's Conquest

    WIP Character List:

    Completely up in the air, we could choose anything. We might pick the reign of a particular King or make one up. All the rest of the northern houses would remain the same. No playing of none Northern houses.

    http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...s_in_the_North

    Potential conflicts:
    -Ironborn invasions
    -Wildling Incursions
    -Insurrections
    -Plenty of opportunities for infighting
    -Andal invasion
    -Aegon's conquest (eventually)

    Playable Factions: All Northern Houses, The Night's Watch
    Last edited by Lucius Malfoy; August 17, 2016 at 07:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: New Direction

    Note that not every char would be available for play that is listed. I will bold which chars are the important ones and that need to be filled when I get home.

    Be aware that the Aerys setting may see Blackfyre PCs limited to 1 or 2 at a time due to how many there are.

    Edit: for further reference, let's hold off on claiming till we decide something. Keep in mind what you wanna play though for all three options

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  3. #3

    Default Re: New Direction

    I'd prefer the Aerys setting but ultimately would play anything going


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  4. #4
    Pinkerton's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: New Direction

    If the player base is small, we could try this thing we talked about.

  5. #5

    Default Re: New Direction

    I am completely in favor of Option III. I am flexible to an extent in terms of which Kingdom, but not much. Allow me to explain.

    Reasons why games fail:

    1. Players in key positions leave. It is just a fact of the game. In these proposed Targaryen setting, we will need no fewer than 9-10 dedicated players to cover all the LPs and royal characters. If we double up on characters then we will be in the position of players looking like they are metagaming if they support certain of their characters with others, or be forced to fight against their own interests. Fighting against your own interests is easy enough, I do it all the time, but how does that work when you have a war against yourself? For example, in this setting I set up the Freys for 17 weeks to supplant the Tullys. Meanwhile the region most hostile to the Riverlands were the Westerlands, a region I control. So either way, someone else would have needed to control one of those regions that wasn't me. That just isn't tenable.

    2. If two LP players leave within a short amount of time of one another, the game will fail. This has happened probably a dozen times.

    3. A single Kingdom setting will eliminate all these problems because we will need a minimum of 1 dedicated player as King in the North to organize affairs. Everything that follows is flavor Rp, the best sort of RP. Want to plot to overthrow the King? Do it. Want to be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch? Do it. Want to build a powerful bannerman house? Do it.

    4. The game will be driven primarily by player creativity and fuller immersion. This is highly doable. The BEST regions in a realm wide game are the regions with the most players in them. Imagine a region where all the high lordships are taken.

    5. As players, this last setting has shown that we have all gotten much better with micro-RP. A setting more limited in scope would allow us to pursue this further. Imagine the impacts of something like an organized professional force in a single kingdom setting. (what I mean by this also is higher lords allowing their vassals to fight it out without immediate intervention)

    Therefore:

    1. Do not vote for a setting because you want to be X character. Characters die, your interest diminishes, and we are back to another restart.

    2. Consider the fact that one player can't hold two simultaneously powerful positions with any ease. Even with Greyjoy NPCed, we have had issues with LP turnover in the last game to a lesser extent than in any game prior where settings often died because 2-3 LPs would go inactive for a period without adequate replacements.

    Drawbacks of single kingdom setting

    1. We will need to rework trade rules. Easy enough, divide the North into seven regions and distribute the trade goods among those goegraphic regions/houses.

    2. Marginally more moderator intervention with running NPC events.

    In conclusion, if we go for a non single Kingdom setting, I will not be participating. I'm tired of building houses up from the ground to have games end before I get to execute all my plans for them.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; August 17, 2016 at 07:02 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: New Direction

    Personally, I'd like to see how Lucis' Endhammer would go down.

  7. #7
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: New Direction

    If we go solo region, let's not do the Reach nor Iron Islands as those have been done before.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: New Direction

    It is impossible for me to stress any more how unwise I think it would be to choose another realm wide setting and overstate the merits of a single kingdom setting. Especially one like the North.

  9. #9
    The Mad Skylord's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: New Direction

    I'm up for a single kingdom setting. It'd be nice to have one highly active region, where you can do stuff without being kerb stomped by all of Westeros.

  10. #10
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: New Direction

    Just have to pick the right region that works for everyone.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: New Direction

    I can think of no better region than the North. Especially in the age of heroes.

  12. #12

    Default Re: New Direction

    Beyond The Wall. I wanna hire some Giants.

  13. #13

    Default Re: New Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by LillyanaKabal View Post
    Beyond The Wall. I wanna hire some Giants.
    lol, "hire" - good luck with that

  14. #14
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: New Direction

    I too would be cool with the North-only single-kingdom setting, it's a region with a fascinating backstory and plenty of cool starting points with the potential for an exciting game from the myriad Wildling invasions to Argos Sevenstar's ill-fated adventure and the struggle that followed the reign of Brandon the Daughterless. I'd vote for that too if this poll allowed more than one choice, but as it doesn't, I cast my sole vote for 'Other'. If I may, I have a suggestion to make for the next starting point:

    Storm on the Trident
    Picture a Westeros where Aegon's Conquest still happens...but it's of Essos. To further explain, and following in the vein of 'alternate history' starts like the Blackfyre game we just played, (I'll admit I was inspired by a playthrough where I had Aegon attack Essos instead of Westeros in the AGOT mod for CK2 ) imagine Westeros at 0 BL. In this universe Aegon, for whatever reason, decides 'let's not go to Westeros, 'tis a silly place' and instead goes off to forge a Valyrian Empire in his people's home-continent to the east. West of the Narrow Sea, a generational struggle can now reach its crescendo without his interference shaking up the entire continent: that of Argilac the Arrogant, the old but still mighty Storm King, and Harren the Black, King of the Isles & Rivers and the worst and most far-reaching tyrant the continent has known up to that point. Two generations earlier, Harren's grandfather Harwyn Hardhand had seized the Riverlands from Argilac's own grandpa, the Storm King Arrec, with the aid of a bunch of Riverlords who were useful idiots that served him under the mistaken notion that he'd restore their independence; and one generation earlier, Harren's father Halleck held the Riverlands against & eventually killed Argilac's own father, Arlan V. Throughout their lifetimes, Harren's been busy raiding the borders & shores of the Storm Kingdom (as well as those of his other neighbors) for thralls to work on his greatest project - Harrenhal, an icon of House Hoare's new status as a continental powerhouse.

    But Argilac, who took the throne as a boy and immediately fended off a Dornish invasion before spending most of his reign at war with one power or another, has gotten fed up with this and seeks to break Harren's power. His attempt to broker an alliance with Aegon of Dragonstone fell through for some reason (perhaps Aegon still offends him by offering to marry his bastard half-brother Orys to Argilac's only child and heiress Argella, but Argilac has the grace to send his envoy away un-mutilated to not give him a casus belli), but still he's determined to fight Harren, avenge his father & grandfather, and reclaim the Trident for the Stag. Caught between both juggernauts of men lie the Riverlanders themselves, whose last native King of the Trident and his entire family were struck down by Argilac's ancestor Arlan III ~350-300 years ago, but who might still be looking to free themselves from both the Ironmen & the Stormlanders under a new King of the Trident or by dividing the land back up into numerous petty-kingdoms.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    The map would comprise three regions: the Stormlands, the Riverlands, and the Crownlands, although the latter was technically not its own separate region yet - it's still divided between the former two. However, the only playable King at the start of the game would be Argilac himself. Harren would best serve as an NPC central antagonist for everyone to focus on as a common enemy, I'd think, plus making him playable means the Iron Isles would have to be opened up as well. The advantages to this start in my opinion are:

    • A little more variety available to players than a strictly single-kingdom start. However, there's not so much open ground that either the Storm Kingdom or the Riverlands should be half-empty either.
    • Only one dedicated head-honcho figure needed at least at the start, in Argilac himself since Harren's an NPC, essentially filling in the role of the King in the North in Pontifex's proposal.
    • As mentioned above, Harren is a central antagonist who can draw everyone's fire and keep the game focused early on as its 'stage one final boss' of sorts. Basically everyone hates him - Argilac for screwing the Durrandons over several times and occupying a title he believes to be rightly his, the native Riverlords for being an oppressive tyrant and all-around evil. His only really loyal supporters are his own Ironborn, the rest of the Rivermen could care less if he got roasted by a dragon (as actually happened in canon) or gets his chest caved in by Argilac.
    • The potential for post-Harren struggles: can Argilac complete his ancestor's work and reclaim the Riverlands from the Twins to the Blackwater Rush for House Durrandon? Can the Riverlords re-assert their independence or will they be content to serve under a less awful foreign overlord than Harren? Will a claimant belonging to one of the old royal dynasties of the Riverlands (Fisher, Mudd, Justman and Teague) re-emerge to complicate matters, or even more than one? For that matter, can they work together to achieve whatever goal it is they're after or will they be undone by internecine fighting? Argilac's own succession isn't totally secure, as his only child and heir is a woman (Argella), and the Durrandons have at least one male-line cadet branch (House Bolling, I think) lying around, as well. And for an extreme circumstance, the NPC Westerlands and the Reach (who have an alliance at this point in time) could invade to either ensure he doesn't secure the Riverlands for the Storm Kingdom, to carve out chunks of an independent Riverlands for themselves, or to take advantage of a war between Argilac & the Riverlords.


  15. #15

    Default Re: New Direction

    I'm not a huge fan of the Riverlands lore in that respect and I'm not entirely sure the main antagonist should be an NPC with the power and influence of Black Harren. And we're a bit close to Aegon's conquest there as well which would seem more like an imminent occurrence as opposed to an elective possibility.

  16. #16
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: New Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of the Riverlands lore in that respect and I'm not entirely sure the main antagonist should be an NPC with the power and influence of Black Harren. And we're a bit close to Aegon's conquest there as well which would seem more like an imminent occurrence as opposed to an elective possibility.
    Well, strictly speaking, Black Harren was something of a paper tiger. When Aegon invaded, basically all of the Riverlords either immediately betrayed him & joined the Dragon or at least sat tight & disregarded his call for arms; after the very first engagement of the war where the Darklyns & Mootons tried to stop Aegon (and immediately bent the knee after their defeat), there's absolutely no mention of even one Riverlander fighting for him, just Ironborn (who went on to be bloodied in the battles leading up to the Burning of Harrenhal). While Argilac attacking would probably not cause such a rapid & dramatic betrayal on account of him not having medieval WMDs, I'd still imagine that most of the Riverlanders would still try to stay home, declare for Argilac or declare themselves River Kings rather than actually aid their tyrannical overlord depending on player choice, forcing him to rely on just the Ironborn & Harrenhal levies (also NPC). If Harrenhal were to go down, so would Harren's regime. As for the start, we could start the game after Aegon does something that definitively establishes himself in Essos, like landing on Pentos.

  17. #17
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: New Direction

    If we did do Riverlands, I would propose Post-Mudd, Post-Justman and Post-Teague.

    Post-Mudd would still have us during the times of the Andals, Post-Justman is a good middle scenario where its after the Andal invasion and Post-Teague would just have an enlarged Stormlands were we could rp as Riverlords and Stormlords.

    After speaking with Ponti, I am gonna vote the pre-Conquest setting.
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  18. #18
    Dirty Chai's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: New Direction

    About the North.. What if someone wants to be an Andal? Discounting Manderly. Not everyone likes the North.

  19. #19

    Default Re: New Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilgefortz of Roggeveen View Post
    About the North.. What if someone wants to be an Andal? Discounting Manderly. Not everyone likes the North.
    Same as when someone wanted to be a Saxon in the GSTK settings post Norman Conquest. Have a viable back story and be ready for discrimination. But more will be readily discernable when we settle on a time period of the Northern Kingdom. It lasted quite a long time.

  20. #20
    Dirty Chai's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: New Direction

    I personally am not that against the fur-coated tree worshippers, but I was curious on behalf of those who might be

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