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Thread: Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

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  1. #1
    StOuFf's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Sons of the North

    Late Era , StainlessSteel 6.4 Hotseat

    Creator of the Hotseat: Stouff

    Admins of the Hotseat: saleska
    Modder descr_strat: saleska2




    ~~~~~
    SS Settings: ~~~~~

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    ~~~~~ Map + Updates ~~~~~





    Map Updates: We will have map updates every 10 turn to see the progress. Every map update will have a 5 turn delay!

    ~~~~~ Victory Conditions: ~~~~~
    All living factions must unanimously agree to a winner to end the campaign.
    The winner can be a single faction or your alliance, as long as everyone agrees that a faction/alliance is clearly the winner.




    ~~~~~ Factions + Players: ~~~~~

    Kingdom of Denmark -
    Mithridate Hannibal2001
    Kingdom of Scotland - Lord Luka Ramble12
    Kingdom of Norway - ArBo
    Kingdom of Poland - StOuFf
    Teutonic Order - Ramble12 defeated by Poland (StOuFf)
    Duchy of Lithuania - Captainnorway defeated by Poland and Novgorod (stouff&kolu)
    Republic of Novgorod - kolu2210
    - subbed by StOuFf
    Kingdom of England - themzr defeated by Scotland (LordLuka)

    ~~~~~ Hotseat Rules: ~~~~~


    - EVERYONE BE SURE TO READ THIS:

    It is your responsibility to pay attention to the rules. If a new rule has been made, I will post it in the thread first and discuss it with the players.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Basic Rules:

    - One turn peace. This means that players cannot attack/enter lands of those players who have not yet played their turn for the first time in the hotseat.
    - You are allowed to reload your saves as many times you want to.
    - Turns must be played within 24 hours or you will be skipped by an admin or a player volunteers to sub. Arragne subs if you cannot do your turn in time. If you fail to do your turn more than three times, without notifying anyone, you will be removed from the hotseat.

    - Once you have finished your turn and uploaded the save, please PM or leave a Visitor message for the next player.
    - If you suspect one of the players have broken any rules or cheated, please contact
    the Admin and ask him to check it.
    - You are not allowed to expand beyond the white border shown on the map above.

    - No exploits/bugs allowed. F.e. movement bug, merchant stack/fort, naval attack spam, agent stomping, surrounding armies/navies to deny retreat, armies on ships to go through enemy zone of control (brown tiles where armies should stop), spies spreading plague, abandoning settlements so you may sack them repeatedly.. ect
    - If you are discovered using an exploit/bug/cheat of any kind then you will be removed from the HotSeat. So if you think what you are doing might be considered an exploit then confirm with the Admin before posting your turn.


    Battle Rules:


    - Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list. Attacking defeated armies the following turn is allowed. Armies standing in fortifications (fort/settlement) when defeated are excluded from this rule.
    - Heroic victories vs players aren't allowed (exception when it's impossible to get another result)

    - Its ALLOWED to use siege weapons to attack city straight instead of waiting siege equipment to construct.Siege weapons must be shown on a pre-battle screenshot.
    - All battles must be auto-resolved. Note: Screenshots are to be posted as evidence of auto-resolve.(The Odds, Army banners and Results windows must not be edited in any way. Editing out Map info, Cash, and any Units/Agents/Regions not involved in the attack is fine). No screenshots against AI.
    - No surrounding enemy armies with one unit armies, solely to deny any survivors a retreat. Blocks of landbridges, bridges or similar, to cut the retreat is allowed if not in contact with the enemy army (which means the red zone around the enemy army)
    - No attacking ships inside a port.You cannot leave a blocked port without fighting the enemy ships first.
    - No hiding armies inside a ship in a port
    -Limit of 3 forts per region. At least 4 units must be stationed at a fort.
    - Not allowed to sally out if the result is a defeat.


    Building Rules:

    - You may not gift a region to another faction if the city is at risk of capture.

    - No destroying of any buildings if city is at risk of capture

    - Barracks, Ranges, stables and buildings allowing you to build siege equipment cant be destroyed. All other buildings can be destroyed if the settlement has been under your control for at least 5 turns.

    - You are not allowed to exterminate a city. You must either sack it or occupy it. This is to prevent huge cities from turning into villages.


    Crusades and Jihads Rules:

    - Crusades are banned from the Hotseat.
    You are not allowed to join a crusade.



    Diplomacy rules

    -No allying Pope
    -No giving provinces in war zone to a faction controlled by the AI (it means regions bordering-by land- with a faction you're at war with). It's ok giving it to a human-controlled faction.
    -Any new player taking command of a faction previously held by another player cannot attack a faction he's officially allied with for at least 5 turns, or until the allies of that faction break the deal.
    - Any regions that are gifted, sold, traded with another Faction must have all units except one disbanded immediatly!
    -Is not allowed to make an AI faction a Vassal


    Agents Rules:

    - Spies aren't allowed to spread plague.
    - Spies can open gates of settlements, castles and forts, but you need 2 spies in the city/fort to be allowed to attack AND both have to have a min. of 60% chance to infiltrate the city/fort. (must be shown by screenshot)
    - Assassins can sabotage everywhere. BUT they have to have a min. of 60% chance to succed in their action. (must be shown by screenshot)
    - Assassins can only kill:"Priests/imams/spies/assassins/merchants/generals". BUT they have to have a min. of 60% chance to succed in their action. (must be shown by screenshot)
    - Limit of 3 assassins per faction, with an additional assassin allowed for every 5 regions you control. Example. When you have 5 regions your are allowed 4 Assassins, 10 regions you are allowed 5 Assassins, 15 regions you are allowed 6 Assassins... and so on.
    - The use of Agents against AI factions is legitimate without any restrictions and the need of screenshots.
    - Princesses are allowed to marry generals - no Family Members
    - No exploiting merchants in the form of merchant stack - (Putting several
    merchants in an army or fort/military-unit securing a resource).
    - Merchants may acquire other merchant's assets only if they have at least 60% chance of doing so. (screenshot required)
    -Diplomats are allowed to bribe - Screenshots of bribe must be shown.


    ~~~~Campaign Information~~~~~

    Campaign Length: Long

    Campaign Difficulty: Medium

    Battle Difficulty: Medium

    Manage All Cities: Yes

    Password: Yes






    Last edited by StOuFf; May 10, 2017 at 11:26 AM. Reason: format

  2. #2

    Default Re: [Starting] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    I will choose faction later but ill join

    Campaign settings should both be on Medium. If the settings are on very hard it will affect autoresolve in an unfair way. When settings are on very hard battles will be in favor of the defending player. Therefor most battles with 1:1 odds suddenly become far harder for the attacker and battles on huge scales with multiple stacks will go in favor of the defending player. When settings are on medium, no bonusses are applied to anything and everything is just normal m2tw
    Last edited by saleska2; August 17, 2016 at 06:45 AM.

  3. #3
    StOuFf's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Starting] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Players that have said to join:
    saleska
    Mithridate
    thermzr
    awesomesheeps
    Ramble12
    Lord Luka

    All if this is just a basis on which we can discuss rules and setting.

    I have chosen the Northern Campaign because it suits the amount of players and there were some personal preferences.

    I have a few questions for the participants:

    1. The rules are my suggestion and are open for discussion. Please immeditaly bring up any suggestions for changes or balance. The agents rules in particulary. This sould get accepted by all before we start. Personally I would like to include Agents with restrictions as I think they are a powerful and interesrting tool to use. But especially assassins might need harder restrictions with killing and sabotaging.

    2. As a change to the first "Sons of the North" I would add England and Novgorod as playable factions. So we would have 8 factions. that should definitely be enough.

    3. As for balance and strength of factions. Would you prefer a very balanced campaign with equal strong factions -> lots of work in descr_strat beforehand or would you prefer stronger and weaker kingdoms so that diplomacy is more important than skill. I personally dont mind but I think unbalanced factions would be interesting too as I love to make diplomacy

    4. Would you like to have your factions randomly assigned or would you like to pick and discuss so that everyone is fine with his faction? Im fine with both really.
    Last edited by StOuFf; August 17, 2016 at 06:24 AM.

  4. #4
    Ramble12's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Starting] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Give me a spot too, please. I choose Novgorod now before I see balancing from Saleska. I also quit my summer job yesterday, so I will have more time to compete
    Last edited by Ramble12; August 17, 2016 at 06:29 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    1. I like needing 2 spies, seems balanced enough

    3. I think factions are fine as it is (Ill make England balanced as much as I can) I like the idea of diplomacy being a must adds something to the HS that can change alot of things

    4. factions assigned at random please. I cant choose which one I want Tho I'd rather not have Novgorod or Poland haha)

  6. #6
    Oathsworn's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    ah forget it. i want to join if its still open.
    i prefer Novgorod/Scotland/Poland if i can
    If you wonder about the guy in my profile photo,
    Here he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d39FBRxBM8k

  7. #7
    zender9's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    1.If you want vh/vh and all battles auto resolve including AI then i don't believe one can capture any settlement
    2.I assume the %60 rule with spies is to entering settlement unlike opening gates right ? As admin i must clarify this.
    3.You cannot level a city to the ground, what is the meaning of this ?
    4.For siege weapons we can add a rule like catapults can attack large cities and trebuchets huge cities etc. (i have to check first for actual names of city levels to add such a rule)
    5.I would vote for random factions too.As saleska2 will design the descr_strat i dont want anyone to think wrong things about balance and saleska2.

  8. #8
    StOuFf's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Quote Originally Posted by zender9 View Post
    1.If you want vh/vh and all battles auto resolve including AI then i don't believe one can capture any settlement
    2.I assume the %60 rule with spies is to entering settlement unlike opening gates right ? As admin i must clarify this.
    3.You cannot level a city to the ground, what is the meaning of this ?
    4.For siege weapons we can add a rule like catapults can attack large cities and trebuchets huge cities etc. (i have to check first for actual names of city levels to add such a rule)
    5.I would vote for random factions too.As saleska2 will design the descr_strat i dont want anyone to think wrong things about balance and saleska2.
    1. saleska allready informed me that hotseats ar enow played on M/M. VH/VH was standard back in the old days but with everyhting being AR it might be smart to have it M/M I agree and I changed it.

    2. Yes, 60% for infiltration for both spies. Entering the city needs 60% chance. Change OP regarding

    3. this just means that you cant destroy every building in ca city but since we have the other rule too which says we can not destroy baracks, stables etc. we can probably erase this. It was taken from the old Sons of the North HS Rule deleted in OP

    4. I am against any rule that further regulates the use of siege weapons I find catapults are more than enough to enter any city IF you can win the battle. Since spies can open gates further regulation wouldnt make much sense I believe.

    5. That sounds fair enough but let us the opportunity to switch factions if e.g. we play this faction in another hotseat allready. for me this would be Denmark, england, Novgorod. I could live with Novgorod but Denmark I would rather switch with someone. ofc only if someone is willing to switch.

    *Updated OP and made rules clearer!
    Last edited by StOuFf; August 17, 2016 at 07:03 AM.

  9. #9
    StOuFf's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    I would also like to hear some opinions on the other agent percentages suggested.
    is 60% for assassins to low? Mith might have an idea here

  10. #10
    zender9's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    What players wants is more important than what i want.So you can set the rules however you like.

  11. #11
    zender9's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Quote Originally Posted by zender9 View Post
    What players wants is more important than what i want.So you can set the rules however you like.
    If the majority of the players would allow it then we will allow it.It would be nice if everyone says his opinion so we can set the rule.I'm just trying to rule the hotseat as fair as i can and if you ask me it shouldn't be allowed as i believe it created advantages/disadvantages.

  12. #12

    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    I will not change anything about factions other than Novgorod and England unless asked for. I will also post the descr.strat here so all players can judge the map.

  13. #13
    Ramble12's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    60% is definitely low. What about 45% infiltration for both spies and 35% on killing agents/60% on killing generals/60% on sabotaging

    Also, there must be some restriction on marrying enemy generals. I'd say 35%

    Why change something about Novgorod?

  14. #14

    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Novgorod loses about half its settlements I better give them a bit of compensation

  15. #15
    themzr's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    60% inflitration is fine imo. Also I think we should be allowed to play battles against the AI factions. For me that is half the fun of hotseating
    "I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion."

    ----- Alexander The Great


  16. #16

    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    I rather not play battles manually against AI. It kinda takes away the point of a strong garrison in a rebel settlement of settlements that are supposed to be hard to take.

  17. #17

    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Alright, this is how I came up with the final map:




    Here is the descr.strat: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...i1SRkEyVk1Sc1U

    Some things:
    -Scotland/England is damn hard to balance so im not entirely sure now. I gave Scotland 2x shipwright while England still has more ports. I also gave Scotland a better general with Nightfighter. Their militiary power is equal, I hope this can make up for the better settlements that England has but I cant be sure, please look at it.
    -I had to give Norway and Lithuania a few small buffs. TO could take 2 Lithuanian settlements on turn 3 easily and Denmark rush on Norway was also incredibly easy. They are still the weakest faction but you cant rush em anymore.

  18. #18
    StOuFf's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    Quote Originally Posted by saleska2 View Post
    Alright, this is how I came up with the final map:




    Here is the descr.strat: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...i1SRkEyVk1Sc1U

    Some things:
    -Scotland/England is damn hard to balance so im not entirely sure now. I gave Scotland 2x shipwright while England still has more ports. I also gave Scotland a better general with Nightfighter. Their militiary power is equal, I hope this can make up for the better settlements that England has but I cant be sure, please look at it.
    -I had to give Norway and Lithuania a few small buffs. TO could take 2 Lithuanian settlements on turn 3 easily and Denmark rush on Norway was also incredibly easy. They are still the weakest faction but you cant rush em anymore.
    Thanks! be sure to rep the man for his work!

    ill check out the file tomorrow.

  19. #19

    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    i'd like poland or scotland, but random factions sounds interesting.
    Last edited by awesomesheeps; August 17, 2016 at 02:42 PM.
    starting new hotseat? sign me up :3

  20. #20
    Lord Luka's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: [In Creation] Sons of the North - LateEra - SS6.4

    The rules are ok. 60% chance for infiltration is ok. Personally I would also like that diplomats can bribe units and stuff but no biggie if not . Sign me up for random faction.

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