Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire (REVAMP)

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

So its been some time since we got an update on the faction, I really don't want to be too impatient, but it would be great to know when we can expect to see more and what the future plans regarding this faction are.

Been waiting on some new assets. Several have been rigged, so I can start work on some of these things.

[Knight2708]

Been waiting on some new assets. Several have been rigged, so I can start work on some of these things.

Great, cant wait.

[Oliverkahn]

The Empire is pretty large, will there be different diplomatic statuses in the imperial estates, like the German duchies will be vassals while the Italian factions will be something different? just wondering

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

Because several people have been asking about it for so long, here's some screenshots of some stuff I'm working on for HRE. This stuff is in progress and not a final version. Just a taste of things to come:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

15th Century Pre-Maximilian Gothic Plate:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

late 14th-early 15th century plate

Still to come: articulated helmets, more tabards, painted/hammered/low-grade armor

[Visarion]

Now we're talkin'... keep 'em comin'

[Knight2708]

Wow, just wow, the gothic armor looks spectacular. You just made my day. I honestly cant think of a way in which it could look better, and that is saying something coming from someone as nitpicky as me.

[Slytacular]

Don't get too crazy with low quality stuff. The 14th century units have a round helmet with rondels which I normally see as a 15th century minus the nasal guard? The 14th century guys also wear some incredibly silly looking spaulders that doesn't seem to relate to anything I've seen (the football pads that have some brown around the sides).

I would like to emphasize that we would like to try keeping our 14th century guys more around 1350-1390 rather than 1390-1420, so that technology difference between centuries is a bit more obvious (unless they're both 15th century units?).

[Kjertesvein]

I'll try not to go too far with my comments on armour. That can easily happen.

The breastplate, plack belt and daggers look gorgeous. :') As for tabards, they look perfect. The only thing is the open chest tabard, displaying the plate underneath in this particular fashion is something I've not encountered in the 14th century. Here are two examples from 15th century Denmark: 1 2. I know Osprey have drawn inspiration for an identical style of tabard in one of their publications on the Hansa, displaying what I believe to be a 15th century Dutch/Belgian soldier from a church sculture. I've also seen similar "open chest tabard" on German late 15th century artwork of some HRE soldiers marching into Italy if I remember correct, 1498 or 1499, but 14 century is a bit of a mystery. Does what I say make sense or do you disagree? What is your inspiration for putting open chest tabards in the 14th century?

The tier 2 limb defenses, I don't know if that is new. (Please excuse me but my memory often escape me) In any case, the half-tubed arm and leg armour that is used on your units fits with my understanding of plated defenses in this section of the world. Awesome. I'm less knowledgeable on the upper arm and shoulder area, so I won't comment too much. I know Easton, Capwell and Laspina have noted on the, at times, incorporation of just mail over the upper arm or a 3 quarter arm harness at least for the 14th to early 15th century.

The hourglass gauntlets on a gothic armour, as you're probably aware of, is a bit of a "hmmm". They're a bit outdated last time I checked with Ian. Anyway, those breastplates look sexy af. Keep up the good work.

Still to come: articulated helmets, more tabards, painted/hammered/low-grade armor

Every one wants the flashy stuff, but I might be the only one all excited for the low grade armour.

Don't get too crazy with low quality stuff. The 14th century units have a round helmet with rondels which I normally see as a 15th century minus the nasal guard? The 14th century guys also wear some incredibly silly looking spaulders that doesn't seem to relate to anything I've seen (the football pads that have some brown around the sides).

I could be mistaken, but I agree with the side-rondels on the helmets, that those are a 15th century thing. The Nasal guard is something I've seen in all periods, so I'm not bothered about that.

~Wille

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

some incredibly silly looking spaulders

They looked better in the Variant editor, that's one of the reasons I like to look at the units in-game, to see all the variations and look at clipping or rigging problems. You're right, I'll take those off.

What is your inspiration for putting open chest tabards in the 14th century?

A lot of German effigies and manuscripts depict breastplates OVER tabards. I thought the open-tabard breastplate looked similar enough. Is it too out of place?

The hourglass gauntlets on a gothic armour, as you're probably aware of

Oh trust me, I'm aware. Hopefully we can get a glove model. I have an idea to experiment with something. If it looks good, I'll show you. If not...maybe I'll PM it to you if it looks hilarious enough.

Every one wants the flashy stuff, but I might be the only one all excited for the low grade armour.

No way! I'm most excited to work on that stuff! It's also way more challenging to texture than the monochromatic shiny 'expensive' armor. I hope I can make something good. I'd appreciate any images you have for extant pieces of low-grade armor.

Looking to make some stuff like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also want to experiment with making one of the scale-helmets you see depicted in 14th century manuscripts:

Edit: that was way easier than I thought it would be

I could be mistaken, but I agree with the side-rondels on the helmets, that those are a 15th century thing. The Nasal guard is something I've seen in all periods, so I'm not bothered about that.

~Wille[/QUOTE]

You and sly are right! I really thought I had seen depictions of that earlier, but I can't find anything in the 14th century. My bad! The round helmets serve pretty well in my opinon as this type of bulbous shallow-bascinet you see in a lot of manuscripts:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[You_Guess_Who]

They looked better in the Variant editor, that's one of the reasons I like to look at the units in-game, to see all the variations and look at clipping or rigging problems. You're right, I'll take those off.

Oh trust me, I'm aware. Hopefully we can get a glove model. I have an idea to experiment with something. If it looks good, I'll show you. If not...maybe I'll PM it to you if it looks hilarious enough.

AFAIK, isn't Banskie have a rerigged spaulder models? Those you used are older variants with faulty rigging or something

Also, there's a really underused plate mittens model. It can supplement the gauntlet model so its less repetitive.

[Ltd.]

... The 14th century guys also wear some incredibly silly looking spaulders that doesn't seem to relate to anything I've seen (the football pads that have some brown around the sides).

That´s probably because those shoulder pads were in fact initially meant for the byzantine themed or influenced armies as part of their lamellar armour, but now most western armies seem to have them as well.

@Fawn: very nice textures you applied there and also good to have you back

[Heisenburrg]

Fantastic work, Fawn, very detailed! Looking forward to some further stuff.

[Visarion]

Maybe some margins on the chest side 9f those tabards

[Visarion]

No tabards are ok but do some sewings at the margins... volours are way better than those flashy one you used to use before... when you started modding and stiff like that...

[Heisenburrg]

@Fawn_Rescuer
But please dont use too much colored armor. In my life I already saw many pieces of armor and among many dozenz of "normal ones" were only a few colored pieces. Because of that I still got the feeling this is rather the excpetion than the rule.

[The_Fawn_Rescuer]

@Fawn_Rescuer
But please dont use too much colored armor. In my life I already saw many pieces of armor and among many dozenz of "normal ones" were only a few colored pieces. Because of that I still got the feeling this is rather the excpetion than the rule.

I realize this is the perception a lot of people have, and it's the sort of reaction many people had to the painted armors for toulouse. But actually, painted armor was MORE common than shiny armor. The problem is that 1. those lower-quality armors were less likely to be preserved and survive to modern days. 2. Those victorian-era douchebags didn't like painted armor as much, because it wasn't 'in vogue' so they POLISHED THE PAINT OFF OF IT . super frustrating. So as a result, we in modern times have a somewhat different impression of what was actually most common back then.

Dr. Capwell talks about this here: https://youtu.be/COAIQPsgZWY?t=40m10s

[finix]

I realize this is the perception a lot of people have, and it's the sort of reaction many people had to the painted armors for toulouse. But actually, painted armor was MORE common than shiny armor. The problem is that 1. those lower-quality armors were less likely to be preserved and survive to modern days. 2. Those victorian-era douchebags didn't like painted armor as much, because it wasn't 'in vogue' so they POLISHED THE PAINT OFF OF IT . super frustrating. So as a result, we in modern times have a somewhat different impression of what was actually most common back then.

Dr. Capwell talks about this here: https://youtu.be/COAIQPsgZWY?t=40m10s

Even if it is as you say, it does not stay good in Attila TW. Keep in mind that lower settings will always look terrible

[Heisenburrg]

I realize this is the perception a lot of people have, and it's the sort of reaction many people had to the painted armors for toulouse. But actually, painted armor was MORE common than shiny armor. The problem is that 1. those lower-quality armors were less likely to be preserved and survive to modern days. 2. Those victorian-era douchebags didn't like painted armor as much, because it wasn't 'in vogue' so they POLISHED THE PAINT OFF OF IT . super frustrating. So as a result, we in modern times have a somewhat different impression of what was actually most common back then.

Mhm... Interesting thought, did not know that. One question stays though; this only explains the rarity of colored armor pieces, but in medieval manuscripts shiny armor is more common too (around 2/3 of depictions I would guess). In this case no "preparation-errors" could be the cause for that.

Dont know if I just did not pay attention to colored armor pieces in manuscripts but if I look at the first random pictures I found, it seems like that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...and so on.

Yeah, but I know, what you mean.

[Visarion]

Yeah agree i like better this panzer/messersmith strategy of colours too

[Visarion]

Aaaa smth similar to the Greek Stues and atmour bith I guess!?