[INFO & ANNOUNCEMENT] WotN: Grand Campaign

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi Guys,
thanks for continuing to develop this great. It's really good that you care and this makes this mod stand out of the other (I wish Chivalry II: Sicilian Vespers or various versions of Stainless Steels to be continued with such a vigour and determination).

However, I'm somehow lost among different versions of the WotN. I'm not sure what's the relations between:
- Wrath of the Northmen: The Baltic: I think the 3.1 is the most recent one and it can be played with the submod Regnum Francorum 1.0) I wonder why it's not in the submod section - is it not a submod? Btw: Slavic Realism - is this one included in the later editions of the WotN?
- Wrath of the Northmen: Full Release (current thread ;-) I understand it's a general campaign with that bigger map of WotN, even with the Byzantines. Has it been released?
- The Last Kingdom: Wrath of the Northmen 3.9 - what's the difference with the previous two? (besides it starts one century later, map is concentrated on the British Islands and Scandinavia, and the very mod is perhaps much older - 2011)


For instance, I'd like to play the Frankish kingdom. Which mod should I play? I think I've got three choices: WotN, WotN:Baltics+RF, TLK:WoTN 3.9?

BTW - what's the adviced difficulty the mods are supposed to be played? In the different M2TW mods I usually play vh/vh - is it the case here as well?

cheers
JoC

[Aphain]

Hi Guys,
thanks for continuing to develop this great. It's really good that you care and this makes this mod stand out of the other (I wish Chivalry II: Sicilian Vespers or various versions of Stainless Steels to be continued with such a vigour and determination).

However, I'm somehow lost among different versions of the WotN. I'm not sure what's the relations between:
- Wrath of the Northmen: The Baltic: I think the 3.1 is the most recent one and it can be played with the submod Regnum Francorum 1.0) I wonder why it's not in the submod section - is it not a submod? Btw: Slavic Realism - is this one included in the later editions of the WotN?
- Wrath of the Northmen: Full Release (current thread ;-) I understand it's a general campaign with that bigger map of WotN, even with the Byzantines. Has it been released?
- The Last Kingdom: Wrath of the Northmen 3.9 - what's the difference with the previous two? (besides it starts one century later, map is concentrated on the British Islands and Scandinavia, and the very mod is perhaps much older - 2011)


For instance, I'd like to play the Frankish kingdom. Which mod should I play? I think I've got three choices: WotN, WotN:Baltics+RF, TLK:WoTN 3.9?

BTW - what's the adviced difficulty the mods are supposed to be played? In the different M2TW mods I usually play vh/vh - is it the case here as well?

cheers
JoC

Hi there,


thanks for the general interest. It is a bit complicated but I will try to explain everything in order.
First of all: Wrath of the Norsemen - Full Release is still in development and will remain so for a longer period of time
(I'm not a developer for the full release version but MrNygren et al. are currently really busy with other stuff).
So now to the difference between Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release and Last Kingdom: Wrath of the Norsemen:
Historically both mods have been developed independently by different teams with Last Kingdom actually having been finished some years ago.
Last Kingdom is based on the books by Bernard Cornwell and tells the story of the Viking invasions into England after the death of Ragnar Lothbrok.
It is therefore not completely historical but nonetheless great fun - note that East Francia is more of a side-faction, the actual main hub of the mod
is the area around the British Isles and the fight Saxons vs. Scandinavians. On the other hand Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release is a
historical mod set in the Baltic region concentrating mostly on different Slavic, Baltic, Scandinavian and Germanic people - thus its focus is more set
on Viking "politics" at home, the emergence of the Rus and the eastern expansions and christianization of different tribes performed by the East Frankish Kingdom.
It was never really "finished" but is in a more than playable state and, at least for me, great fun. Because it was never finished Wrath of the Norsemen - Full Release
is currently in development trying to finally finish the mod with the old goals of a larger map in mind which had been abandoned to finally release something playable.
You may now ask: So ok, there is Last Kingdom and there is Wrath of the Norsemen, so why is there a mod called: Last Kingdom - Wrath of the Norsemen?
This is because the current developer, MrNygren, of Wrath of the Norsemen - Full Release has also got the permission from the Last Kingdom team to use their
ressources and "continue" developing their mod in the form of a submod which takes stuff from Wrath of the Norsemen and incorporates it into Last Kingdom.
This submod is thus called Last Kingdom - Wrath of the Norsemen and is essentially a bastard of both mods - although the main part is still Last Kingdom.
So in the end you have three choices:
1. You can play Last Kingdom 3.06, which is based on the books by Bernard Cornwell, is set on the British Isles and is essentially finished.
2. You can play Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release 3.1, which is a historical mod set on the Baltic and Scandinavian regions and is also in a fairly good state.
3. You can play Last Kingdom - Wrath of the Norsemen 3.9, which is a mixture of both although mostly leaning on Last Kingdom.
If you choose Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release 3.1 you can additionally install my submod Regnum Francorum 1.6.1, which provides a lot of
additional stuff you can read about in the first post of the respective thread. If you want to play as Franks I highly recommend the submod because it is essentially
centered around the faction, thus the name, because it was fairly "underdeveloped" in the base version. I hope this helps a bit - I know it's confusing.
Whatever you choose - have fun and enjoy the mods! (Oh and regarding difficulty: I always play on m/h when playing WotN but I do not know if this is optimal or not)


Cheers, Aphain

[Mr_Nygren]

Hi there,


thanks for the general interest. It is a bit complicated but I will try to explain everything in order.
First of all: Wrath of the Norsemen - Full Release is still in development and will remain so for a longer period of time
(I'm not a developer for the full release version but MrNygren et al. are currently really busy with other stuff).
So now to the difference between Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release and Last Kingdom: Wrath of the Norsemen:
Historically both mods have been developed independently by different teams with Last Kingdom actually having been finished some years ago.
Last Kingdom is based on the books by Bernard Cornwell and tells the story of the Viking invasions into England after the death of Ragnar Lothbrok.
It is therefore not completely historical but nonetheless great fun - note that East Francia is more of a side-faction, the actual main hub of the mod
is the area around the British Isles and the fight Saxons vs. Scandinavians. On the other hand Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release is a
historical mod set in the Baltic region concentrating mostly on different Slavic, Baltic, Scandinavian and Germanic people - thus its focus is more set
on Viking "politics" at home, the emergence of the Rus and the eastern expansions and christianization of different tribes performed by the East Frankish Kingdom.
It was never really "finished" but is in a more than playable state and, at least for me, great fun. Because it was never finished Wrath of the Norsemen - Full Release
is currently in development trying to finally finish the mod with the old goals of a larger map in mind which had been abandoned to finally release something playable.
You may now ask: So ok, there is Last Kingdom and there is Wrath of the Norsemen, so why is there a mod called: Last Kingdom - Wrath of the Norsemen?
This is because the current developer, MrNygren, of Wrath of the Norsemen - Full Release has also got the permission from the Last Kingdom team to use their
ressources and "continue" developing their mod in the form of a submod which takes stuff from Wrath of the Norsemen and incorporates it into Last Kingdom.
This submod is thus called Last Kingdom - Wrath of the Norsemen and is essentially a bastard of both mods - although the main part is still Last Kingdom.
So in the end you have three choices:
1. You can play Last Kingdom 3.06, which is based on the books by Bernard Cornwell, is set on the British Isles and is essentially finished.
2. You can play Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release 3.1, which is a historical mod set on the Baltic and Scandinavian regions and is also in a fairly good state.
3. You can play Last Kingdom - Wrath of the Norsemen 3.9, which is a mixture of both although mostly leaning on Last Kingdom.
If you choose Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release 3.1 you can additionally install my submod Regnum Francorum 1.6.1, which provides a lot of
additional stuff you can read about in the first post of the respective thread. If you want to play as Franks I highly recommend the submod because it is essentially
centered around the faction, thus the name, because it was fairly "underdeveloped" in the base version. I hope this helps a bit - I know it's confusing.
Whatever you choose - have fun and enjoy the mods! (Oh and regarding difficulty: I always play on m/h when playing WotN but I do not know if this is optimal or not)

Cheers, Aphain

Aye - Horsa is the real developer of the grand campaign of WotN though - having created the map and such.

- I finished the Baltic release 3.1 into it's current shape, beginning with the old alpha as a base to work from - TLK: WotN is my submod of TLK by Danova and team - Horsa had permissions from Danova to use TLK assets in WotN, and as me and Horsa were partners on the Grand Campaign i got his permission and Absinthias etc to also use the models from WotN in TLK.

About the Franks:

In The Last Kingdom you can only play as the Eastern Franks, using the TLK old roster that is less historically accurate and not as cool in my opinion.

In Wrath of the Norsemen 3.1 you can play as Absinthias much better looking Franks, also to be used in TGC (even though TGC has improved rosters of them) but it lacks as good details for the faction.

- Using the Regnum Francorum submod the Francs will be much better to play as in WotN 3.1.

Lastly in TLK: WotN you could play as both the Western Francs and the Eastern Francs, and both have a mixture of the TLK and WotN units/rosters - having five unique ones each. When conquering the other you also get to recruit their unique units - but only from those regions.

[Saul Tyre]

BTW - what's the adviced difficulty the mods are supposed to be played? In the different M2TW mods I usually play vh/vh - is it the case here as well?

cheers
JoC

As Aphain and Mr_Nygren have explained the differences I thought I would add that I play on vh/vh, I do not know if that is optimal but it floats my boat just fine. I am presently doing a Let's Play of TKL:WotN on youtube, I'm not that great a player but it may give you some idea if you want to check out my channel, I'm confident you will enjoy the submod

cheers ST

[Jurand of Cracow]

Thanks, Guys, this clears things up. I think it would be beneficial to compile your messages into a note explaining what's what (perhaps with succinct descriptions of the mods) for the other players and make a sticker on the main pages of the mods.

I'm looking forward to the grand WotN campaign - keep it up, I'd really like to play on that bigger map.

I'm going to play: Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release 3.1 y+ Regnum Francorum 1.6.1 on vh/vh. I think the Franks may be an easy faction to play (who'd have a better economy and better horsemen?)

I'll have questions and comments - I'll leave them in the relevant thread (I think Regnum Francorum sumod one)

@Saul Tyre - yes, I've seen your let's play, thank's for sharing!

cheers
JoC

[Mr_Nygren]

As Aphain and Mr_Nygren have explained the differences I thought I would add that I play on vh/vh, I do not know if that is optimal but it floats my boat just fine. I am presently doing a Let's Play of TKL:WotN on youtube, I'm not that great a player but it may give you some idea if you want to check out my channel, I'm confident you will enjoy the submod

cheers ST

Yes, Very Hard/ Very Hard is the optional difficulty level to play on as far as i know.

[Mr_Nygren]

Thanks, Guys, this clears things up. I think it would be beneficial to compile your messages into a note explaining what's what (perhaps with succinct descriptions of the mods) for the other players and make a sticker on the main pages of the mods.

I'm looking forward to the grand WotN campaign - keep it up, I'd really like to play on that bigger map.

I'm going to play: Wrath of the Norsemen - The Baltic Release 3.1 y+ Regnum Francorum 1.6.1 on vh/vh. I think the Franks may be an easy faction to play (who'd have a better economy and better horsemen?)

I'll have questions and comments - I'll leave them in the relevant thread (I think Regnum Francorum sumod one)

@Saul Tyre - yes, I've seen your let's play, thank's for sharing!

cheers
JoC

That is not necessary, you are in fact supposed to find the mods at moddb.com - where they have different moddb-pages (one for the grand campaign, one for WotN 3.1, one for TLK/TLK:WotN) but i understand the difference between WotN and Regnum Francorum - or between TLK and TLK:WotN could need some notes.

- Btw, the old TLK is using vanilla settlements while the other versions of all these mods have custom settlements. So if you want to have custom settlements in battle anyone but the old TLK is an option, and if you want vanilla only the old TLK is an option.

The problem with the Grand Campaign will be stability - i could finish everything i wrote at MODDB that i wanna finish but still it will probably CTD often. It's not gamebreaking, but a CTD like every fifth turn is still pretty annoying. It's always possible to restart and continue playing but it happens way too often..

- You could sometimes play 40 turns before it CTD, but after that CTD one can expect like a CTD once every fifth or so turn. I still enjoyed playing it but most players do not enjoy mods where they need to restart often.

About the Francs i believe their economy isn't that good in WotN - that's their weak spot. Not their whole Empire is on the map after all. But they sure do have the best cavalry of any faction.

- They have more provinces in TLK/TLK: WotN and a better economy - but in that mod the best horsemen would be the Magyars, followed by the Francs/Normandy and Gwynedd.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Thanks, Mr_Nygren and again thanks for the mod. I've enjoyed it a lot since your're supposed to build everything from the beginning.

About the Francs i believe their economy isn't that good in WotN - that's their weak spot. Not their whole Empire is on the map after all. But they sure do have the best cavalry of any faction.
- They have more provinces in TLK/TLK: WotN and a better economy - but in that mod the best horsemen would be the Magyars, followed by the Francs/Normandy and Gwynedd.

I've played a number of turns on vh/vh and, actually, I don't complain about their economy. However, this might be for 4 reasons: 1. the AI is very non-aggressive and it didn't give me quite a challenge what makes me keeping just one army, what doesn't put any strain on the economy; 2. related reason: you're in the corner of the map and you're not threatened by many factions (plus Obrodrites turn to be your allies by script), 3. there're a few independent villages around you may rise quite big (7 settlements) without wars, 4. traits of Charlemagne and Karl are great for city building (-20% building costs, -4 squalor etc.) - I've managed to build a Large Town within 20 years.
Anyway, I find them rather easy on vh/vh - I'll report later.

I've actually got a question on the settlements' growth. I like the solution where there's no base fertility of a region and you've got to build farms. What I've seen in WotN is that trade can provide 2% (and perhaps more?) growth even in small villages. Could you have a look at my discussion with Gigantus here - I wonder how it's possible and what parameter rules this issue (or what are the hardcoded rules - this is a puzzle to me).

cheers
JoC

[Mr_Nygren]

Thanks, Mr_Nygren and again thanks for the mod. I've enjoyed it a lot since your're supposed to build everything from the beginning.

I've played a number of turns on vh/vh and, actually, I don't complain about their economy. However, this might be for 4 reasons: 1. the AI is very non-aggressive and it didn't give me quite a challenge what makes me keeping just one army, what doesn't put any strain on the economy; 2. related reason: you're in the corner of the map and you're not threatened by many factions (plus Obrodrites turn to be your allies by script), 3. there're a few independent villages around you may rise quite big (7 settlements) without wars, 4. traits of Charlemagne and Karl are great for city building (-20% building costs, -4 squalor etc.) - I've managed to build a Large Town within 20 years.
Anyway, I find them rather easy on vh/vh - I'll report later.

I've actually got a question on the settlements' growth. I like the solution where there's no base fertility of a region and you've got to build farms. What I've seen in WotN is that trade can provide 2% (and perhaps more?) growth even in small villages. Could you have a look at my discussion with Gigantus here - I wonder how it's possible and what parameter rules this issue (or what are the hardcoded rules - this is a puzzle to me).

cheers
JoC

Ah, Regnum Francorum and it's tweaks are Aphains work - not mine. I know he changed a lot of buldings and stuff for the Francs.

- As for the old version i did not do that part of the mod. My work were adding the music mod, adding the custom settlements, adding a couple of new pics, fixing some descriptions, adding hotseat plus fixing the issues in the mod with names and silver surfers etc.

- Everything else is the older teams (Horsa, Absinthia, Leif Ericsson and Ulfhednin) work. I did also change names of settlements, fix some issues with settlements and overall improved the mod from alpha to more finished beta.

- All the scripts were the old teams work, but i believe Regnum Francorum made some tweaks to them.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Ok, this means I'm amazed not by your work, but the other team members . But it's your baby now, in all the aspects.
Seriously: I'm really surprised how the well the mods play. I like it a lot, and the changes to the Regnum Francorum are very good (I don't know how it is without them). The government system is very good as are the other changes.
However, after my experience with the other mods, I'll have some opinions on the gameplay. In general, I find it (too) easy on public order, religious change and diplomacy.

[ArsenalGunner17]

I'm a bit confused about the different mods. I have found The last kingdom, the The last kingdom wrath of the Norsemen 3.9 sub mod, and wrath of the Norsemen 3.2, but i'm not sure if there are any more based on wotn, and which mod the beginning of this thread is talking about. Thanks.

I also found the wotn grand campaign release on Moddb but there arent any files, so I don't know if it hasn't been released yet, or if it can be found somewhere else.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I also found the wotn grand campaign release on Moddb but there arent any files, so I don't know if it hasn't been released yet, or if it can be found somewhere else.

I think Mr_Nygren has already answered this question. I understand there're no publicly available files yet.

The problem with the Grand Campaign will be stability - i could finish everything i wrote at MODDB that i wanna finish but still it will probably CTD often. It's not gamebreaking, but a CTD like every fifth turn is still pretty annoying. It's always possible to restart and continue playing but it happens way too often..

- You could sometimes play 40 turns before it CTD, but after that CTD one can expect like a CTD once every fifth or so turn. I still enjoyed playing it but most players do not enjoy mods where they need to restart often.

- They have more provinces in TLK/TLK: WotN and a better economy - but in that mod the best horsemen would be the Magyars, followed by the Francs/Normandy and Gwynedd.

[Mr_Nygren]

Wrath of the Norsemen: Grand Campaign WIP Plans!

The first part out of two explaining the future plans of WotN: Grand Campaign. Mod crashed when clicking the symbols and i couldn't add the file to the Movie Maker program cause of it getting corrupted. Therefore i had no choice but to upload two parts instead of one combined part.



The second and longer part of the WotN: Grand Campaign WIP Info videos. I will go through the plans i have for this project and what remains to be done before the first release as far as i am conserned.

[Rudes]

hello, I would like to praise this mod because I've been hungry for a long time where I can play great moravia, I'm just curious or do not you know when this mode will be done?

[Mr_Nygren]

hello, I would like to praise this mod because I've been hungry for a long time where I can play great moravia, I'm just curious or do not you know when this mode will be done?

Thanks for the support .

A Modder never knows when a mod will be done, because mods do not have a deadline - in this mods case it has a very annoying CTD-issue but if that issue can be fixed i am sure it could be released before the end of this year. On the other hand, if it's not fixed - then i sadly won't waste my time.

[absinthia]

great moravia

you will find that Greater Moravia is also playable in the Great Conflicts mod, when it is released.