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Thread: [CAMPAIGN] Split Army (WIP)

  1. #21

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    The issue with renaming Neapolis to be Capua is its port access. I don't know why CA is is so in love with having Naples represented. Did the same thing in Rome II. Capua would be my own preference, but geographically, it makes less sense here. We are starting at the end of the Second Punic War and Naples/Neapolis was rising in significance as it remained loyal.


  2. #22
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Are "captains" drawn from the army pool if possible?

  3. #23

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    The captain character comes from the "other candidate" pool, if empty it will just create a new one.

  4. #24

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Can you create a function whereby scout units can split from the main army and actually act as scouts, scouting ahead on the campaign map?(But not too far ahead of the parent army)That would be really cool and would certainly add to the realism. If that's not possible, then maybe scouts can increase an army's campaign sight.

  5. #25
    Willhelm123's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Just recruit an agent and attach them to your force.
    AE Dev, mainly units

  6. #26

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by wrath of germania View Post
    Can you create a function whereby scout units can split from the main army and actually act as scouts, scouting ahead on the campaign map?(But not too far ahead of the parent army)That would be really cool and would certainly add to the realism. If that's not possible, then maybe scouts can increase an army's campaign sight.
    Well just recruit a captain and take some cav out in front of you
    Vespasian's own: Up the Augusta! For Cato!

    AE: Battle Balancing and BAI.

  7. #27
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    This looks amazing, awesome job! Is scripting stuff like this as hard as it sounds (on par with splitting the atom), or if you actually know what you're doing would you say it's fairly easy? I've got nothing to base this off, so all I can say is...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    I've got a few suggestions/ideas:
    a) Captains could be more likely to be affected by enemy agents, eg getting their army hindered or whatever because of their inexperience compared to a general.
    b) Link the number of captains that generals can raise to the level of the general? I haven't played Attila campaign for ages but I remember in Rome 2 generals could get up to level 10, so maybe something like level 1 - 1 captain. Level 4 - 2. Level 8 - 3. Level 10 - 4.
    c) Make captains weaker than generals (I believe someone else already suggested this).
    d) If a general raises a captain, the loyalty of all other captains raised by them is lowered because their position isn't as rare? Idk, just feel loyalty could play in.

    Of course you don't want to put too many negatives on so awesome a feature, lest people decide its better to just ignore it.
    Last edited by Commissar Caligula_; August 09, 2016 at 08:48 AM.



  8. #28

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caligula the Mad View Post
    This looks amazing, awesome job! Is scripting stuff like this as hard as it sounds (on par with splitting the atom), or if you actually know what you're doing would you say it's fairly easy? I've got nothing to base this off, so all I can say is...
    I would say that given you know what you are doing, it's fairly easy. It's easier than binary file reverse engineering or .exe modifications, I would say.

    However, getting the knowledge to say that you know what you are doing is fairly hard. You need to know how to script in general but also need to know about Attila's quirks and idiosyncrasies, as well as having an understanding of the limitations of the scripting system (and how to work around those limits).

    Compared to "real" software development, scripting for Attila is fairly interesting. There's, for the most part, less complex coding and certainly less complex algorithms as most of the scripting has relatively simple goals. However the actual implementation of features can be quite complex simply because workarounds needs to be found due to the limitations in Attila's system.

    I'd almost argue that writing scripts for Attila is almost akin to playing a puzzle game, as generally speaking the limitations are more obtuse and almost arbitrary in comparison to the limitations when writing a real game (which is typically mainly performance).

    When writing code for proper games and software, I've had a lot less "aha!" moments were I see a solution when away from a computer. When I think of a solution to a software problem I typically need to actually write the code and test that it runs quickly and accurately enough. The joy from knowing how to solve the problem only really comes for sure once you actually see the code running suitably in front of you.

    By contrast, I've often had moments when on the bus, away from a PC, and had a sudden revelation on how to work around an issue with Attila's scripting. It's like a puzzle game in that you find very particular and contrived solutions to problems with similarly particular and contrived limitations!
    Last edited by Causeless; August 09, 2016 at 09:30 AM.
    modificateurs sans frontières

    Developer for Ancient Empires
    (scripter, developed tools for music modding, tools to import custom battle maps into campaign)

    Lead developer of Attila Citizenship Population Mod
    (joint 1st place for Gameplay Mods in 2016 Modding Awards)

    Assisted with RMV2 Converter
    (2nd place for Warscape Engine Resources in 2016 Modding Awards)

  9. #29
    SinisterOmen's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Is this somewhat similar as how it was back in Medieval 2 in which you could take units from different armies and let them move on their own (in this case selecting a captain as a leader) to reach different armies across the map?

  10. #30

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    WOW! this is fantastic hardballer!!!
    Congratulations and good luck polishing it

  11. #31

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Very innovative! Looks well implemented too, cool concept.

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  12. #32

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Nice feature, hope you can make it with an alternative bodyguard. Concerning that, I made a mod for an alternative bodyguard when Attila first came out. It has some restrictions, but having one alternative bodyguard is doable currently. Here you can find some info: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-the-campaigns

  13. #33

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    I have another option to prevent the abuse of this feature. Maybe you can consider the kind of solution I have created for new commanding generals in my mod (the one I referred to in your manpower thread).

    It's basically a trait for any newly created or replacing officer, but it goes further than that. It's a permanent trait as I like to call it... Like the houses and the bonds if you are familiar with the trait mods I have been working on. It is always there but is replaced under certain circumstances, like the ability trait.
    In this case, when a general is created or is a politician he has the trait "statesman" that gives various military penalties which don't do any harm while he is a politician, but will give a penalty the first turn he is leading an army, both when he creates an army or replaces a general. The second turn this statesman trait is replaced by another... In my mod I have a few, but that does not matter here. I originally created this design to get some balance for the feature in the game that replaces a general unit when a general dies.

    NOTE: I never saw the AI replace a general that is still alive, so it is only affected then. However, for a human player it will make him think twice before replacing a general "conveniently right before an enemy attacks" as it has serious consequences in the first turn.

    Some more details for those interested:
    - In the mod I make a difference between:
    > Low-ranked Statesman
    > High-ranked Statesmen (rank higher than level 3)
    (Originally I made different traits for non-human players, but I changed that)

    - After their first turn with a force these statesman traits get replaced with others based on the same higher/lower ranking & the amount of units they have in the force.
    > Commander & Elite: general unit + 1 other unit (low) / general unit + 2 other units (high): mainly gives a lot of unit xp to create a strong elite unit & bodyguard, more movement range, ability radius, etc.
    Similar with:
    > Overqualified Military Commander
    > Qualified Military Commander
    > Unqualified Military Commander (only for low-ranked officers who have more than 11 troops... again this gives a penalty: movement range, ability radius, etc.)

    When a general returns home as a politician he gets the statesman trait again to "prepare" him for when he has to lead an army again...
    Last edited by Viking1978; August 12, 2016 at 02:44 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Would it be possible to make armies formed by Captains smaller than a generals army?

  15. #35

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    You mean a limit in units, right? Nobody has ever done that... A workaround is the penalties through traits like "unqualified general" which strongly recommends to keep less than x units. You can have these traits affect the player only, but if you have penalties like less movement range, area of radius, etc, it should be suitable for AI as well in my opinion.
    Last edited by Viking1978; August 19, 2016 at 04:48 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking1978 View Post
    You mean a limit in units, right? Nobody has ever done that... A workaround is the penalties through traits like "unqualified general" which strongly recommends to keep less than x units. You can have these traits affect the player only, but if you have penalties like less movement range, area of radius, etc, it should be suitable for AI as well in my opinion.
    I think it would be possible to impose limits via scripting there, limiting army merging and recruitment perhaps via disabling buttons. It's not something I've actually done though, so there may be unexpected issues.
    modificateurs sans frontières

    Developer for Ancient Empires
    (scripter, developed tools for music modding, tools to import custom battle maps into campaign)

    Lead developer of Attila Citizenship Population Mod
    (joint 1st place for Gameplay Mods in 2016 Modding Awards)

    Assisted with RMV2 Converter
    (2nd place for Warscape Engine Resources in 2016 Modding Awards)

  17. #37

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Causeless View Post
    I think it would be possible to impose limits via scripting there, limiting army merging and recruitment perhaps via disabling buttons. It's not something I've actually done though, so there may be unexpected issues.
    We looked through this option and its not something we thought we wanted in game, especially if we had captains take over armies should a general die (not saying they will but it was one idea) as then we'd need more than one captain to run the army which could become messy and confusing. Personally I don't think we need a hard cap, not a big fan of hard caps for anything, much prefer soft caps like making the captain struggle under the weight of a sizeable command and debuffing the army as a result.
    Vespasian's own: Up the Augusta! For Cato!

    AE: Battle Balancing and BAI.

  18. #38

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Yeah, we already have a discussion on this on our dev slack.
    So yes it possible to do with script but not something we want.

    Anyway, thanks everyone so far for the support and good ideas, work on this is halted until our first release, expect more update from me here in october/november.

  19. #39

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    This is awesome.


    IB:Restitutor Orbis Signature courtesy of Joar.

  20. #40

    Default Re: [Game Mechanic] Split Army (WIP)

    Would it be easy to write a script which has generals start out on their own? I mean start with a unit of 1/80 or 1/160 the same way that garrisons refresh from zero after being sacked? That's another workaround that I would like to see... Wouldn't even mind this kind of system for all units, but it would make a lot more sense with dead generals that are replaced this way or the split armies you are working on...

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