Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 54

Thread: (OLD) Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Ltd.'s Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Carpathian basin - Székelyország
    Posts
    1,137

    Default (OLD) Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire


    Holy Roman Empire

    lat.
    Sacrum Romanum Imperium






    UNITS


    Early Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Emperor and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    High Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Emperor and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Late Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    The Emperor (Sigismund of Luxemburg) and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Dismounted MAA



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    The Duchy of Bavaria





    UNITS


    Early Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Duke and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    High Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Duke and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Late Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Duke of Bavaria and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Dismounted MAA



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    The Duchy of Brabant







    UNITS


    Early Era



    Pike Sergeants



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Knights




    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Duke and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    High Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Duke and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Late Era



    Knights



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Duke of Brabant and his guards



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Dismounted MAA



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    UNITS for all German duchies


    Early Era



    Mounted Sergeants



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Mounted Crossbowmen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Urban militia



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Sergeant Spearmen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Sergeants / Heavy Infantry



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Armored Sergeants



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Peasant crossbowmen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Heavy Crossbowmen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    High Era



    Mounted Crossbowmen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Mounted Sergeants



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Armored Sergeants



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Pikemen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Heavy crossbowmen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Late Era



    Mounted Crossbowmen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Pikemen



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Handgunners



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Please note: as always, this is not the final nor the complete roster

    Last edited by warman222; August 10, 2016 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #2
    FrozenmenSS's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Silistra,Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,014

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire


  3. #3

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Excellent as always, but I suggest to add more details for some shields.

    + rep


  4. #4
    hessam's Avatar Miles
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Castle Drakenhof
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Holy mother of Jehoshaphat!!! You better release an update for custom battle soon or we're gonna organize a mass suicide in a few days!!!

  5. #5
    Beregond's Avatar TWC boomer
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    4,476

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    fantastic! love the surcoats, units are looking splendorous.

    one small thing, I suppose some shields' (esp the ones that are mono-coloured) brightness could be toned down

  6. #6
    hessam's Avatar Miles
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Castle Drakenhof
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    agreed! those white shields reflect the light like shiny steel

  7. #7

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Very nice. Judging by the fact you specifically mentioned German duchies, does that mean the non-German minor factions of the Empire will have their own regional/individual units? I'm not sure which are meant to be playable, but I'm talking about Dauphiné, Provence, Savoy, Genoa, Pisa and the Lombard League?

  8. #8
    +Marius+'s Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Zagreb
    Posts
    2,418

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    The bucket helmets look disgusting.

    Everything else is magnificent

  9. #9
    Teutonic's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    787

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Effing awesome!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    could we have a standard bearer for the other units as well. Otherwise awesome work

  11. #11
    Ltd.'s Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Carpathian basin - Székelyország
    Posts
    1,137

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliverkahn View Post
    could we have a standard bearer for the other units as well. Otherwise awesome work

    I'm affraid that falls under the category " this is not the final nor the complete roster " .
    I'll be leaving town this weekend for three weeks, so this roster as it looks now is what I had time for. . There will be additions later, of course
    Also, to answer your other question in the "preview collection" thread: no, there will be no dismounted knights for the german factions. Generally speaking those dismounted MAA fulfil the same role for the late era, more or less, and for the earlier eras there are heavy sergeants who should be able to deal with anything that is not on horse.

    Btw, what is strange about the sergeant units' shields ?
    Last edited by Ltd.; July 29, 2016 at 01:29 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltd. View Post
    I'm affraid that falls under the category " this is not the final nor the complete roster " .
    I'll be leaving town this weekend for three weeks, so this roster as it looks now is what I had time for. . There will be additions later, of course
    Also, to answer your other question in the "preview collection" thread: no, there will be no dismounted knights for the german factions. Generally speaking those dismounted MAA fulfil the same role for the late era, more or less, and for the earlier eras there are heavy sergeants who should be able to deal with anything that is not on horse.

    Btw, what is strange about the sergeant units' shields ?
    That is what i suspected, and okay to the dismounted knights question.

    Nothing, it was just a thread comment which i had made in too much haste. It looks awesome, and no complaints here.

  13. #13
    BalrogOfMorgoth's Avatar Decanus
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Around Etampes, France
    Posts
    526

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Those dukes look gorgeous!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Indeed there are things to be added. We also intend to add Saxony and Austria to this selection of German factions. I do believe a couple of the Italian HRE vassals will be playable though we need to clarify which ones, Genoa is a given if nothing else.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Looking awesome guys!!

    I agree about the shields; it would be nice to see some emblems or symbols of the HRE (and it's duchies) on the shields of units like sergeants or sergeant spearmen. Some shields are just plainly one colour, which is a pretty much waisted opportunity to add in something cool.

    Also I'm pretty sad about no dismounted knights; they look very pretty in close combat, why not just add them like for France and England ? I understand that the MAA fullfill their role somehow, but just for esthetics it would be great to see them in battle. Unless you manage to have the AI use the dismount ability ofcourse, then you won't hear me complain xD.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Hi, first of all really, really nice units! I am absolutely excited that hre is in work now!
    I know, that the roster isn´t ready yet, but exactly for this reason i´ve some suggestions (btw, Bavaria is simply perfect );

    1. Color and shields:
    As stated above a tweaking of some colors and symbols on shields would be cool. A few colors (Hre late
    era knight´s coats, Hre late era emperor coats with officer coat and Hre late era MAA) are too garishly. A
    bit darker or "worner" (exactly like early era knights) would be just fine.

    Also the shield symbols would need some polishing. Hre had dozents of states, so shield symbols
    should be well varied (Like crusader states). For example Hre late era knights and duke, as like
    as brabant knights and duke have too similar symbols (only symbols, black-yellow-colors for example are
    perfect). But main point are the "universal" units and officers. Their shield colors and samples look
    really out of place. I know you have no time for too abstract symbols, but eventually you find some here (or maybe make
    all shields like the high era mounted sergeants)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Really universal symbols, only from free hre cities



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    2. Units:
    What I noticed was that hre has (until now) no remarkable "german" units (I mean there´re just "standard" knights, sergeants, MAA and so on)
    France has it´s Scots guard and Voulgiers, Sweden has Bondir, Huscarls and Hirdmen, England has its specific Longbows and Hobilars...
    My suggestion for Hre is that it has access to some regional units from it´s vassals (for example "Thüringische Burgherren" -medium/heavy infantry- from Thuringia) or to simply add some specific
    units to universal/hre roster.
    My ideas for additional units are; Reichsritter (dismounted troops with shields and maces/axes/swords + black-yellow-colors and eagle-symbol, hre specific),
    Lehensherren (medium mounted/dismounted troopswith medium, but noble armor, universal),Vasallen/Vogte (medium infantry, weapon doesn´t matter, universal, Deutschritter (mounted or/ dismounted
    elite troops, like your units from the teutonic order, hre specific) andSchildknappen (engl. Squire, rather light troops with inexpensive equipment)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    For "Lehensherren" like this;



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    For "Vasallen or Vogte" like this;



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    And for "Schildknappen" like this;



    Sry, for completely bad and ahistorical pictures, but I guess you get the idea...

    3. Renaming:
    Small work, huge immersion boost... Would love you for this
    -hre dismounted MAA to Verlorener Haufen/Forlorn-Hope-Kompanie
    -Armored sergeants to Kriegsknechte
    -mounted sergeants to Panzerreiter

  17. #17
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Miðaldir
    Posts
    6,679
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Reichsritter
    Lehensherren
    Vasallen/Vogte
    Deutschritter
    Schildknappen
    Verlorener Haufen/Forlorn-Hope-Kompanie
    Kriegsknechte
    Panzerreiter
    I can pronounce these words because my native language is part of the Germanic tree, but I wonder if it's appropriate to demand the lowbrow audience to deal with it. I remember in Divide et Impera, the annoying thing was to be unable to pronounce the name of my units. Like, what is the purpose of having a name for a unit if you yourself can not pronounce it? You end up sounding like GWB.

    I understand if there is a categorical word attached to the unit (`Schildknappen Horsemen´), if certain words are anglicized (`Panzer Cavalry´), or if a name is part of popular mindset (Forlorn Hope). It's also ok if it's limited to 1 or 2 unit with simple or short names, but if many units are like that... I don't know. Some people are going to disagree and that's ok, but that's my point of view at least. It's not a huge deal, but i thought I'd mention it.

    This may be relevant.

    Anyway, +1 For the "Thuringian militia" -suggestion. Cool name.

    ~Wille
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  18. #18
    hessam's Avatar Miles
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Castle Drakenhof
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    Agreed. German uses a Latinized alphabet and it's still confusing to someone who's not familiar with its rules of pronunciation. Just think of languages (like Arabic or Turkic ones) that have different alphabet and even produce different sounds. I's impossible both to convert them to a Latinized alphabet while retaining their original pronunciation (seriously, I've seen Farsi words in Latin alphabet and if you were to pronounce them they'd sound nothing like the actual word) and to make them understandable for a non-native speaker.

  19. #19
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Miðaldir
    Posts
    6,679
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    @Filips Augustus
    From a historical point of view, it's not such a dumb idea for most HRE and Italian knights to stay on their mount. They were a lot more mount centric than the English (and to some degree the french) style of fighting. When the lords of Burgundy forced their knights to dismount, in an attempt to imitate the English fighting style, the capital punishment had to be installed. That tells you how popular it was for them to get down from their high horse... I'm not saying this was universal, but it's a general trend in German and Italian areas of a mounted tradition, and that reflects their armour. Knights who fought mounted would also have made their armour ideal for that style of fighting, such as shorter faulds (skirt) or the inside of their thigh (cuisses) remain uncovered. From a gameplay perspective, I understand where you're coming from and I wouldn't mind a dismounted knightly unit every now and then, but that's just me.

    @Ltd.
    I'm just looking at every single choice of element of armour. The tassets/polyens/arm harness; the general lack of sabatons; the use of shirts of textile or mail cover over plate; men-at-arms half-swording; much coat of plates (DYK, most of mid 14th century English coat of plates were imported from the low counties[1]), etc. I'm just nodding my head, this is HRE. Nicely done.

    4 suggestions
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Firstly, silk and patterns in textile
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I would like to see more velvet or silk with extravagant patterns on a few knights here and there to spice it up. I'm not sure how exactly to portray it (I'm color blind) or if it's practical for you, but the_Fawn_Rescuer also did an excellent job with the pattern of the officer's cuirass in his roster.

    As a bit of further context.

    A few replica


    Ratio of high end coverings
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    From 16th century surviving examples, we know coat of plates were made by plates riveted on a base layer of hemp. Then over the base layer, a thinner outer protective layer, sometimes decorated. In the Visby grave, some of this outer layer was leather, but in most cases, such as account letters, it's textile. From 1353-60 (Rothwell’s account), we can see a general classification of coat of plates in terms of pricing:
    "
    - Plain coat of plates with hemp cover would cost you 13s. 4d.
    - Better Coat of plates, covered in plain fustian, £16s. 8d.
    - The best covered in velvet or other silks with gilded rivets for £2."

    With the old £sd. system, the most expensive coat of plates were, 3x or 1.5x more costly, than the basic hemp and fustian coat of plates respectively. So the pricing might provide some suggestion as to the frequency of high-end coat of plates.


    Secondly, if you're ever looking for more variation of harness' for the extremities for german territories in the high period, here are some suggestions:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Overview by Augusto Boer Bront.
    Arm harness
    Leg harness

    And the Italian version, just in case.

    Arm harness
    Leg harness


    Details such as scale or leather would also be interesting to see in small quantity in German territories during the transitional period.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Scale
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I made a post here with lots of pictures of scale from western and central Europe, mostly from HRE territories. Matt Easton seem to speculate that scale, when it was used, was done to cover joints due to it's flexible nature. It seems to be placed over existing mail as a little bit extra protection, rather than other forms of plate.


    Leather
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Boiled leather (Cuir bouilli) pops up ever now and then. In the Tower armouries, it appears as 'black leather rear braces' quite a lot. I've also seen it on knightly effigies in Sicily, also as rerebrace.

    "Many of the arm defences were of leather, and an example of a tooled leather defence for the upper right arm of this period survives in the British Museum (figure 8). It came from the Roach Smith collection, and wasfound in London. The decoration, a diaper design of foliage inhabited by birds andmythical two-legged beasts, is very similar to that shown on the Bures brass."

    Here is an example of a purchase of relatively numerous leather rerebraces compared to other elements of protection. This wasn't always the norm, but it's worth mentioning. "The indenture for issues to Thomas Snetesham for the fleet in 1337 included325 bacinets (for which there were 262 aventails, as mentioned above under mail), 167 pairs of plates, thirteen aketons of plates, 120 pairs of rerebraces of tooledblack leather and 127 pairs of gauntlets of plate.164 The pairs of plates had variousdifferent coverings: black and green, and white leather, fustian and twill, striped(reye) silk, red taffeta."


    Rerebrace of tooled leather, probably English, mid-fourteenth century. British Museum, no. 1856.07-01.1665.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    According to Easton, Master Armourer Chris Dobson apparently reconstructed some convincing cuir bouilli after a lot of experimentation, alas, I've jet to find a picture of it.




    Thirdly
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    , a foot knight unit with short spears, half swording estoc blades and awlpikes. By armoured men, to fight other armoured men. I understand Attila lack a "crowbar animation" or a purely "2 handed stabbing weapon", so it's perfectly ok that such a unit isn't present in 1212, but yeah... Sigh lol sorry, I just have problem not talking about it, because in all media, steel tipped 5-6 foot 2-handed spears are such an undervalued weapon for knight, jet the evidence for it is overwhelming.

    http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/25628
    http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/25623
    http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/26714
    http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/25085
    http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/26736


    Lastly, slashed clourful clothing and cod pieces for landsknechts.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A must for any sassy late German mercenary infantry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYv4iO9QjCs

    EDIT: Here is an actual slashed cloth, mid 15th century:

    "Back view of the conjoined hose of the 15th century. The man on the right has slashed undersleeves. Note V-shaped back neckline, 1460s."
    French 15th century painter Meister des Jouvenel des Ursins.


    [1] "Information about the sourcing of armour in the early period is also very interesting. Though the only previously published details suggested the Low Countries origin of much English armour of the mid-fourteenth century, the details in Fleet’s account (1325–44) confirm it, and show how important Cologne and Maastricht were as armour-making centres at that time. 77% of the bacinets, 96% of the helms, 66% of the kettle hats, 84% of the pairs of plates, 83% of the arm defences, 86% of the gauntlets, 85% of the cuisses and 70% of the greaves were imported from those two centres."

    The medieval inventories of the Tower armouries 1320–1410, Roland Thomas Richardson


    EDIT: This is what a 360 degree view of a replica of a late 14th century Coat of Plates with silk and gold look like. sexy af https://plus.google.com/112410089144...89144735130011

    Saturated medieval colours and sassy rich people with a small army of valets to take care of their every need.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The following pictures were from a book, purchased by the French King's brother in 1416.
    For example these images.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Liédet. 1468-79



    di Bartolo, 1441-42







    ~Wille
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; August 01, 2016 at 11:35 PM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Holy Roman Empire

    I have no problem with historical shield pattern. It's just a little cosmetic error. Just these sheilds don't have any details - soiling, shades, etc. These are very clean if these were created click on the fill color in Paint. Probably some of you forgot to give the filter on the texture.





    This picture shows good where is a problem:




    Shields haven't any filter but shields have a correct filter texture - soiling, shades, etc.
    Last edited by KLAssurbanipal; July 30, 2016 at 08:20 AM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •