Clearing Up Misconceptions about Islam

[DaVinci]

DaVinci, he has only researched in Christianity as a monotheist and Abrahamic religion and he has opposed all of the religions because he has found this lack of philosophy and logic in Christianity but the bad part is he never approached Islam in the right way, if he would have done that maybe he had some different opinions about the religion and the god now but Alas!

Not really true. It is as following: I came to the conclusion, that a god's religion (written and preached by humans) is not mine, and that all is tight to nature laws.
This, after quite some spiritual times until into my twenties, where i was open to all kind of religious stuff (from christianic over islamic to buddhist approaches plus nature religions and even esoterics), and finally after i digged more and more into interdisciplinary sciences from on my thirties, there is still kind of spirit but not a religious one along existing world religions nor with other ideas like esoterics; i'm fifty now. Thanks btw. for the tip about 'holy scriptures and science' literature ... i know such investigations already (a lot), those don't change my mind, rather strenghen my approaches and views of religion. In whole, if there is an instance, that can be called like something what humans name "god" is a question, that can't be answered, imo., thus it is left to belief, simple as that. My 'god' interpretation is but, it is 'nature' - without religious mystification or mythification and by no way as a kind of personalised holy ghost whatsoever that speaks to humans or ventures with humans, as the abrahamic religions do it. In terms of existing religions, i'm more with buddhism as with every other religious approach, but not with institutional buddhism or its practices, but parts of its philosophy that sticks behind it.

I think, i tried to explain, from where the god's belief by humans comes (its very roots), just in this thread here. And i guess, those explanations are plausible, even very much logical. That means, the belief (first into gods, then into a one-god) is a logical development.

[Fardin]

Not really true. It is as following: I came to the conclusion, that a god's religion (written and preached by humans) is not mine, and that all is tight to nature laws.
This, after quite some spiritual times until into my twenties, where i was open to all kind of religious stuff (from christianic over islamic to buddhist approaches plus nature religions and even esoterics), and finally after i digged more and more into interdisciplinary sciences from on my thirties, there is still kind of spirit but not a religious one along existing world religions nor with other ideas like esoterics; i'm fifty now. Thanks btw. for the tip about 'holy scriptures and science' literature ... i know such investigations already (a lot), those don't change my mind, rather strenghen my approaches and views of religion. In whole, if there is an instance, that can be called like something what humans name "god" is a question, that can't be answered, imo., thus it is left to belief, simple as that. My 'god' interpretation is but, it is 'nature' - without religious mystification or mythification and by no way as a kind of personalised holy ghost whatsoever that speaks to humans or ventures with humans, as the abrahamic religions do it. In terms of existing religions, i'm more with buddhism as with every other religious approach, but not with institutional buddhism or its practices, but parts of its philosophy that sticks behind it.

I think, i tried to explain, from where the god's belief by humans comes (its very roots), just in this thread here. And i guess, those explanations are plausible, even very much logical. That means, the belief (first into gods, then into a one-god) is a logical development.

Fifty? My most sincere respect.
I have to insist on that you haven't approached the Islam in the right way(like talking to a reliable Islamic scholar).
I exactly know what you think about the belief in god because I have two minds in my brain, one is Muslim and another one is Atheist,there have been many debates between these two since my childhood but the Muslim one won after all!(I know! it's very ridiculous), You exactly have my opinions as an Atheist.I have to apologize from you because this is all I can say here for you,My way of guiding is more pragmatic and practical.I'll send more philosophical books to you.

[DaVinci]

Fifty? My most sincere respect.
I have to insist on that you haven't approached the Islam in the right way(like talking to a reliable Islamic scholar).
I exactly know what you think about the belief in god because I have two minds in my brain, one is Muslim and another one is Atheist,there have been many debates between these two since my childhood but the Muslim one won after all!(I know! it's very ridiculous), You exactly have my opinions as an Atheist.I have to apologize from you because this is all I can say here for you,My way of guiding is more pragmatic and practical.I'll send more philosophical books to you.

because I have two minds in my brain, one is Muslim and another one is Atheist,there have been many debates between these two since my childhood

Surprises me, but positive. That trait should ensure, that you won't become a radical religious person, a sheep without indvidualism and without self-unfolding.

but the Muslim one won after all

I guess, because of the social environment, in which you are integrated and have to react on, including that impressive islamic scholars influenced you - here just a mere soft express of indoctrination mechanics.

Perhaps, with growing age and further life experience plus more interdisciplinary science knowledge, you find yourself in the end, that the non-abrahamic-god-belief wins, eventually the "enlightment" that it is 'nature'.

A kind of bridge might be to look into buddhism, as said not the institutional and its practices, but the philosophy-core.

And i hope, that there will be no kind of religion-police that hinders you in a process of self-unfolding.

[Fardin]

as for the Pagans, it was Mohammed who said that God had daughters in line with Pagan belief never Jesus Christ.

I found most of your arguments funny and not worthy to spend time on that so I'll answer only to your accusations and misconceptions about Islam.
Can you quote the Muhammad's Hadith about your assertion?
Jesus Christ never said something wrong, this is your distorted and artificial religion that tows the name of Jesus Christ.You are making the Jesus ashamed because of this ignorance.

So, since the Father is a blinding Spirit upon Whom no man might look upon and live, Who was it that walked and talked with Adam in the garden, Who was it that walked and talked with Abraham, Who was it that wrestled with Jacob? That Person was not a son of God, but the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, our Creator. Now how does a Muslim get mercy if his heart is set on that course, the course of believing Satan who knows exactly Who the Lord Jesus Christ is but doesn't want anyone else to know and be saved? How is his black heart changed to appease the wrath of God? Why was it during Jesus' ministry that the devils dwelling in humans knew Whom He was and yet you don't? Ask yourself why it is that even Muslims are being brought to Jesus through love and nothing else? His people don't live under sharia law and don't need to because love, His love conquers all. Think about it.

First of all !
Who won that wrestling match? Who was the referee?
How do you know "even Muslims are being brought to Jesus through love and nothing else"? Do you remember what you told me, when I said "I know many Christians who have converted to Islam"? You said "they are only Christian by name" , My answer is same.
What do you know about Sharia law? I'm very curious about it.(just don't quote from Wikipedia again, be a man and say I don't know anything)
Your lack of philosophical thinking makes you vulnerable against these stupid beliefs, Jesus doesn't need to do anything to conquer you, you've opened the gates and fell asleep . I wonder have you ever thought about your beliefs? I myself have challenged Islam multiple times in my mind before and this made me a strong believer. Have you ever challenged one of your beliefs in front of your priests?
I don't know what do you do in your churches exactly but in our mosques we go and question our clerics about everything, We don't go and just sit there and listen to some one sided words, this is in the human nature to question everything. Think about it.
May the god Guide us all.

Surprises me, but positive. That trait should ensure, that you won't become a radical religious person, a sheep without indvidualism and without self-unfolding.

These stupid things are very rare between Muslims,Only a very very low percent are like that.

I guess, because of the social environment, in which you are integrated and have to react on, including that impressive islamic scholars influenced you - here just a mere soft express of indoctrination mechanics.

Exactly! This is the reason I'm insisting on that you should do as I did because you look like me but significantly one sided.

Perhaps, with growing age and further life experience plus more interdisciplinary science knowledge, you find yourself in the end, that the non-abrahamic-god-belief wins, eventually the "enlightment" that it is 'nature'.

Impossible!
I don't know what you thought about me but I think that you've quite unfairly underestimated me, I'm not as old as you are but I'm too old for these words,I don't want to compliment from myself so much but I think you've underestimated me in science too.

A kind of bridge might be to look into buddhism, as said not the institutional and its practices, but the philosophy-core.

And i hope, that there will be no kind of religion-police that hinders you in a process of self-unfolding.

If it is your suggestion I'll study in Buddhism philosophy as soon as I had the enough time, I recommend you to study more in Islam(I'll be happy to help if you wanted a source or a book about it).

I can ensure you there is not such a police in Iran,Even if there was such a thing, it won't have any affection on me, Thank you.

[basics]

Fardin,

OK, I can accept that then you can explain why of all the conflicts that are going on in the world today Islam is behind most, your country being accused of being the biggest sponser of Islamic terrorism which peoples all around the world are suffering from? For a religion of peace it sure leaves a lot of bodies in its wake. Its treatment of women, Muslim women, is a disgrace to any religion and as I said I know three Muslim ladies, one from Iran, one from Turkey and one from Madagascar, married to non Muslim men and they enjoy the freedom that that brings to their lives. So, why does a peaceful religion need Sharia law?

[DaVinci]

snip


These stupid things are very rare between Muslims,Only a very very low percent are like that.



Exactly! This is the reason I'm insisting on that you should do as I did because you look like me but significantly one sided.


Impossible!
I don't know what you thought about me but I think that you've quite unfairly underestimated me, I'm not as old as you are but I'm too old for these words,I don't want to compliment from myself so much but I think you've underestimated me in science too.


If it is your suggestion I'll study in Buddhism philosophy as soon as I had the enough time, I recommend you to study more in Islam(I'll be happy to help if you wanted a source or a book about it).

I can ensure you there is not such a police in Iran,Even if there was such a thing, it won't have any affection on me, Thank you.

Well. Please, if you have the time and will, re-read what i have written in this thread.

Then afterwards, you might know, that there is no religion, that can convince me in any way.
And especially not the abrahamic ones.

Again a core of my message: The Islam with all its by-work incl. Sharia Law is hopelessly outdated.
This is not to insult the Islam in particular or the believers, it is just fact for me.

There are a lot of mechanics which pull people together and this around a religion-construct (or ideology).
Those might have positive impacts on the human development, for a time.

Humans but obviously never learned how to adapt and progress properly (just stagnate often and/or fall back to same patterns),
and not seeing, what is or should be done to work for a proper future. From time to time, some progress-step is done, then two steps back.

I recommend once more (to everybody who is an abrahamic religion believer): Widen your horizont.
When doing that, for a while try to filter out everything that is influenced by islamic "power" (or for the other abrahamic branches, in that sense).

There is so much to learn outside of the (abrahamic) religion-spheres.

[Fardin]

A few Hadiths(quotes) from 12 Imams:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

One from peophet












This one is the code of my life.

[Bobington]

What say you about Islamists pillaging the wonderful city of Constantinople?

[Fardin]

What say you about Islamists pillaging the wonderful city of Constantinople?

Do you mean by Ottomans?

[Abdülmecid I]

Quite a lot of posts got edited or even deleted. Please, remember that the thread's subject is whether Islam is justly or unjustly criticized for various of its aspects, not the Christian teachings or the alleged links of some members to terrorism. Thank you, for your understanding.

[Anna_Gein]

I suppose this is the best thread to ask a few question about Islam.

Can someone explain me what Sharia and Fiqh are exactly ? I do not fully understand the difference. :/

[Hunin]

I suppose this is the best thread to ask a few question about Islam.

Can someone explain me what Sharia and Fiqh are exactly ? I do not fully understand the difference. :/

Sharia is practical real judiciary/legislative – the fiqh is the theory to understand the legislative system.

Of course you can make it more complex or complicated and go but, but, but, but to do X you need A,B,C etc. - nevertheless is that the overall difference.

What Sharia is?
If you for example dance around in public to the Happy song and film it and load it up on YT – your souls needs saving.
This is why good Muslims come to arrest you and put you in front of a judge.
You are a person in need. Islam is a peace-full and caring religion.
This judge looks at your un-Islamic behavior and then sentences you to 10 or 100 leashes.

In the Fiqh we then try to decipher the logic what hitting each other on the butt has to do with any impact on your soul in the after-life.
No. Just kidding.
That is without question totally logical.
We try to figure out why chopping off your head would not be more appropriate and why god wants us not to dance around in public to the Happy song.

In case this was not clear enough. Another example:

Sharia:
If you for example live with a partner without marriage in the same building.
This unmoral behavior is a risk for your soul in the after-life.
This is why police has to come to save your soul, by arresting you and put you into prison.
Now a judge sentences you to pay a lot of money to the Muslim social charity organization – that is mostly the regional mosque you are at.

In the Fiqh we try to figure out now why money can save your soul instead of a butt slap.

[PointOfViewGun]

I suppose this is the best thread to ask a few question about Islam.

Can someone explain me what Sharia and Fiqh are exactly ? I do not fully understand the difference. :/

Sharia is basically any law that is inspired from Islam. It depends a lot on how people interpret the Quran and the Hadith as they look to those sources to establish Sharia laws. That's also why there is no one Sharia law. Almost every country, or Islamic community within a country, has different Sharia laws.

Fiqh is something like what people understand from those Sharia laws and how they apply it. Perhaps we could translate is as precedent.

[betto]

whats your opinion about isis beheadings and muhammad beheadings (Banu Qurayza) ?

[Fardin]

whats your opinion about isis beheadings and muhammad beheadings (Banu Qurayza) ?

Beheading was the usual punishment of that era for crimes like murderers, rapist, sodomites, huge crimes and... , ISIS doesn't behead people justly, They even behead the kids and teenagers, Beheading is considered quite brutal nowadays so it's better to use another kinds of punishments.
You'd better use this source for any further study in Islam not Wikipedia:
http://en.wikishia.net/view/Battle_of_Banu_Qurayza

[PointOfViewGun]

whats your opinion about isis beheadings and muhammad beheadings (Banu Qurayza) ?

We do not have any accurate account of what exactly happened to Banu Qurayza. The accounts range from beheading of only the tribe leaders to the entire male population. Some accounts even suggests that hundreds of people were beheaded by a single man. On the other hand, Lesley Hazleton points at a curious fact that there is no Jewish account of such executions even though Jews were known to best at record keeping. Even if we accept the worst account of what happened to Banu Qurayza it's still a case where the verdict was given by a Jew based on their own laws. That's not really what ISIL is doing today.

[betto]

thats the point : ISIL says : we behead because Mohammad beheaded then its rightous act.

"Indeed, in the messenger of Allah a 'good example (uswatun hasana / أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَة)' has been set for the one who seeks Allah and the Last Day and thinks constantly about Allah." (Qur'an 33:21)

[PointOfViewGun]

thats the point : ISIL says : we behead because Mohammad beheaded then its rightous act.

"Indeed, in the messenger of Allah a 'good example (uswatun hasana / أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَة)' has been set for the one who seeks Allah and the Last Day and thinks constantly about Allah." (Qur'an 33:21)

So, you didn't read anything I wrote?

[betto]

Mohammed sword Dhu al-Faqar or “Cleaver of Vertebrae" . people usually give names to objects that they use a lot and like to use so creating a sentimental bond.

[PointOfViewGun]

Mohammed sword Dhu al-Faqar or “Cleaver of Vertebrae" . people usually give names to objects that they use a lot and like to use so creating a sentimental bond.

I guess that's a "no" to my question...