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  1. #1
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default EB II Stability Improvement Test

    As many of you have noted, EB II seems to have become more unstable in our recent releases. One internal suggestion as to why this may be the case is that we're simply butting against some internal limits due to the size of our campaign_script (247k lines or around 13,000 Kb in size). A very large part of this script (+- 90%) consists of the recruitment limitation script introduced in 2.2. Therefore, we'd like to test what the impact on stability would be if we were to take out this part of the script. As such, we would like to enlist you (able and willing members of our fan-base) to gather feedback on whether stripping the recruitment limitation improves stability. We can't guarantee this will have any effect whatsoever, but this will most definitely not be save-game compatible. Moreover, since the limitation script impacts the CAI, the results there will likely also be different from what an players with a regular campaign_script may experience. Please keep all of this in mind if you want to test this change.

    I have read and understood all of the above and still want to help testing this:

    Great! Here's how you can make the changes needed to test all of this:

    0: If you don't have it already, download notepad++, install it and use it to make the necessary changes to the script. Regular notepad has a tendency to **** things up by introducing hidden characters the engine can't deal with.

    1: go to your campaign_script.txt file (located in ...EBII\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign) and make a backup of this file. If something goes horribly wrong somewhere, you'll still be able to restore things to the way they were (this will still most likely ruin your saves though).

    2:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus
    While I have my doubts that the size of the script is the issue, for testing that theory you can always remove the script from the line (+-28430) "; 26. Recruitment Limitation by Gigantus" until just before the "DO NOT ADD ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE!" line at the end.
    This is one way to go about things, but due to the sheer size of the limitation script I've found it easier to do things the other way around: to copy the things above it and the few lines below the "DO NOT..." line. Then add everything back together to look like this (these are the last few lines of the new script):

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
                if I_EventCounter HE_NORTHPUSH_declined = 1                set_faction_standing f_seleukid f_baktria 0.1        ; Seleucid's attitude declines
                    set_event_counter Bak_mission4_counter 0
                    destroy_units f_baktria indian elephant standard
                    ui_indicator_remove 0
                    ui_indicator_remove 1
                    terminate_monitor
                end_if
            end_if
    
    
        end_monitor
    
    
        ; === DO NOT ADD ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE! ===
    
    
        wait_monitors
    end_script


    Be sure to save the changes to the campaign_script.

    3: Go to EBII\data\world\maps\base and delete the map.rwm file.

    4: Run the game and start a new campaign. The game will appear frozen in the campaign selection screen, but this is simply a new map.rwm being generated, so please be patient.

    5: Play the mod, keep track of its stability and (hopefully) have fun!

    6: Report back in this thread if there's a difference or not compared to "vanilla" 2.2b. If you want to make a comment as to how the CAI behaves in this or another thread and have made the changes above, please mention it, so that the people in charge of AI members can keep track of what's what. From my own experience, I can say that the steps above if followed through properly shouldn't break the game, but if there are any other changes you think are relevant, please say so.

    We hope this may be the solution we've been looking for, but again, no guarantees. Thanks for your time and attention.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  2. #2

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Just reporting what I experienced in my ongoing campaign started when 2.2a was released. During the early game I was getting total CTDs with no error message quite frequently mostly on closing and opening scrolls, now I'm around turn 180 and the game is much more stable the only crashes I get are graphical error ones, mostly due to too much alt+tabbing which results in screwed up in game icons.

  3. #3
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    The only 'real' AI guy is me so I will keep an eye on what's going on in this thread.
    It is worth mentioning QuintusSertorius has been helpful in the EDU area with recruitment priority and a couple other ideas with the CAI building decisions etc. He has been working in so many areas of EBII it's hard to keep track of it all.
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  4. #4
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    I'm not about to start a new campaign, but best of luck with this! I might even test this in the near future. Playing as Koinon Hellenon, I've had all sorts of ridiculous problems with campaign map CTDs caused by clicking on and exiting out of scrolls, for whatever odd reason. It's really the only pernicious bug in my game at this point, and it happens seemingly at random. It usually happens when I'm looking at scrolls detailing units, though, and almost never happens when looking at other scrolls. Make of that what you will.

  5. #5

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    For what it is worth I have been playing on my Mac with Feral's port of MTWII and have found that 2.2b is very stable. Much more so than previously playing on windows 7 using bootcamp. While I tend to auto-resolve a lot I probably manually resolve about 10-20% of battles and have not had any CTD issues.

  6. #6

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Any luck with this so far or any other tests done by the team?

  7. #7
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Quote Originally Posted by romanius24 View Post
    Any luck with this so far or any other tests done by the team?
    Well, given the amount of feedback indication stability issues, I'd expected a larger influx of people willing to help.

    I'm privately testing this on the dev build, but my time is somewhat limited, unfortunately. No other team members specifically testing this AFAIK.
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Cohors_Evocata View Post
    Well, given the amount of feedback indication stability issues, I'd expected a larger influx of people willing to help.

    I'm privately testing this on the dev build, but my time is somewhat limited, unfortunately. No other team members specifically testing this AFAIK.
    I just can't imagine abandoning ongoing campaign I'm knee deep in for new one with no new features or fixes other than possible fix for intermittent campaign map crashes... I'll just hope for the best for version 2.3 or whatever

  9. #9

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Just played around 50 turns on a new campaign with these changes. Of the 50 turns, I've only had a single CTD when I was clicking around unit descriptions too quickly.

  10. #10

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    What does the recruitment limitation actually do?

  11. #11

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Quote Originally Posted by baldamundo View Post
    What does the recruitment limitation actually do?
    Stops AI stack-spam for the first 100 turns.

  12. #12

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Campaign around the 90th turn - still no crash aside from the one around turn 15.

    In other news, this campaign is tearing me apart.

  13. #13
    Cohors_Evocata's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Quote Originally Posted by hlidskjalf View Post
    Campaign around the 90th turn - still no crash aside from the one around turn 15.

    In other news, this campaign is tearing me apart.
    Thanks for the feedback, how does it compare to the unchanged campaign in terms of stability?
    I tend to edit my posts once or several times after writing and uploading them. Please keep this in mind when reading a recent post of mine. Also, should someone, for some unimaginable reason, wish to rep me, please add your username in the process, so I can at least know whom to be grateful towards.

    My thanks in advance.

  14. #14

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Cohors_Evocata View Post
    Thanks for the feedback, how does it compare to the unchanged campaign in terms of stability?
    That sounds normal to me. I almost never got CTDs while in campaign. Battles however mostly end in a crash.
    Right, I would crash far too often when going back into campaign from a battle. This has not happened a single time so far. Feels good! What else could you be referring to by stability?

    The only difference with CAI which I'm not sure is a definite difference is: the Romani seem to be fielding more Hastati than usual, and so their armies are walking terrors of the classical world.

    Stops AI stack-spam for the first 100 turns.
    This hasn't been an issue in my campaign; if anything I felt the CAI has been more timid than in previous playthroughs. H/H; isn't that bizarre.

  15. #15

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    That sounds normal to me. I almost never got CTDs while in campaign. Battles however mostly end in a crash.

  16. #16
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Quote Originally Posted by romanius24 View Post
    That sounds normal to me. I almost never got CTDs while in campaign. Battles however mostly end in a crash.
    Disclaimer: I'm not using the stability improvement patch.

    This is why the team is having such trouble figuring out the stability issue. Conflicting reports.
    I have never had a battle crash. I have never had a campaign crash on my turn.
    However, I have had dozens of crashes on AI turns. Although the campaign seems to have become more stable as time goes on. I'm now at ~turn 350 and have had very few crashes in the past 50 turns.

  17. #17

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    It does feel more stable with less campaign_script, I'm able to right click everywhere for unit and building descriptions and i have not had a crash yet. I'm on Turn 80 with Win 7, CDversion, 2+Gig RAM enabled.

    This is why the team is having such trouble figuring out the stability issue. Conflicting reports.
    I have never had a battle crash. I have never had a campaign crash on my turn.
    However, I have had dozens of crashes on AI turns. Although the campaign seems to have become more stable as time goes on. I'm now at ~turn 350 and have had very few crashes in the past 50 turns.
    Like Hummer mentioned I have a different experience from others. The worst problem for me was the graphic switching bug and a few Campaign CTDs or when you clicked on a random button its like playing Crashin roulette.

  18. #18

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    Playing Carthage on CAI VH/ BAI H, The game seems more stable, the only crash i got are when loading battle involving more than 2 full stack. Without the recruitment_script the AI seem less dead and inactive so i find my game is more of a challenge for the first 100 turns

  19. #19

    Default Re: EB II Stability Improvement Test

    I also noticed crashes more often when there are reinforcements involved.

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