Spying Rework Poll
New Spy Rules Prerequisite: Be a Lord (or higher), be Master of Whispers, or be a Merchant Prince.
In a Spy Network you may employ a maximum of five spies, each costing 30,000 dragons hire fee and 5,000 dragons salary. These spies may be sent to spy on specific characters, and can start feeding information back to their master after one week.
All rolls are modified by the Spymaster and Counterspy traits of the Spy's employer and the Character being spied on respectively.
Spys attempt to infiltrate into the Household of the target:
1-2 spy caught during infiltration
3-6 spy unable to infiltrate
7-12 spy partially infiltrates(request another roll next week with a +5 modifier) 13-20 spy infiltrates
Once a spy has infiltrated a target you will begin to gain passive information on them. You learn they have called their banners 50% faster than a player you don’t have a spy you also learn of any secret meetings but not the details that are discussed within.
You may then request two action rolls per week:
Actions include:
Information rolls- Allow you to learn secret plots of the character you request them against
Subterfuge Rolls- Allow you to stat Rumors about the target in question
Sabotage rolls- Can slow down the production of troops or building, or make them more expensive
Infiltration rolls- Having a man in a castle can be used to give positive modifiers on escape or assignation rolls.
Information Roll
1 spy is caught
2-5 no information gathered
6-10 vague information (eg, who they meet with, where they went)
11-15 some information (eg, the general tone of discussion: treason, rebellion, framing someone)
16-19 most information (eg, some specifics. Rebelling against the King, framing the Master of Laws)
20 Everything
Subterfuge Roll- modifiers applied by how believable the request is.
1-5 Rumor fails to gain traction
6-10 Rumors is believed by some
11-15 Rumor is treated with skepticism
16-19 Rumor is believed by most who hear it
20 All believe the Rumor
Sabotage Rolls
1-4 Spy is caught
5-8 Spy fails to sabotage
9-12 delays project for 3 real life days
13-16 Delays project for 1 real life week
17- 19 Delays project for 1 real life week and makes it 50% more expensive
20 Delays project for one real life week and causes it to be 100% more expensive
Infiltration roll
1-5 Spy is caught
6-10 Spy fails
11-15 +2 to escape, capture or assassination rolls against target
16-19 +4 to escape, capture or assassination rolls against target
20 +6 to escape, capture or assassination rolls against target
If the spy is caught, he reveals information. Torture Roll:
1-5 spy dies revealing nothing
6-10 spy survives, but cannot be cracked. He can be used as evidence if his employer can be determined through other means, or executed.
11-15 spy reveals his employer
16-20 spy reveals his employer and any information he's already passed back
Important Note: This rule set applies only to the 5 hired spies a player character can employ. If a player character wishes to spy directly themselves, they will need to RP themselves into places where rolls can be made. That can be as simple as RPing breaking into someone's office in King's Landing after dark and looking for something, or making it known your character is following the person secretly. Naturally risk rolls will always be conducted, and if your character tries to infiltrate something very important like a Small Council meeting those risks will be much higher.
New buildings
Tier 1
Spy guild- allows for the recruitment of 1 additional spy
Tier 2
Veteran Spy guild- allows for the recruitment of 1 additional spy and gives +1 to all spy rolls
Tier 3
Master Spy Guild- allows for the recruitment of 1 additional spy and gives +1 to all spy rolls Spy upkeep 25% cheaper
Tier 4
Grand Master Spy guild- allows for the recruitment of 2 additional spy and gives +1 to all spy rolls. Spy upkeep 25% cheaper.
So completed Spy tree gives 5 additional spies and +3 to spy rolls and 50% cheaper spy upkeep.
New Retinue
Middle man +1 Spy trait
Poach's proposal for information rolls The reason spying was dropped from the game was because every time a successful roll gave someone access to sensitive information there was a huge OOC falling out over it and people took to trying to RP ridiculous security measures like meeting someone alone in the middle of a field and contending that this meant spy rolls were forbidden or writing a paragraph about how they had two hundred guards including several sitting on the roof so any spy rolls should have huge negative modifiers.
I would therefore suggest the following:
- A spy having infiltrated will pass passive information without rolls. Passive information includes calling of Banners (you'll learn 50% faster than the rules say you should) and where they go (eg they went to Lannisport), but not who they met with.
- Rolling for more specific information has the following table:
1 The spy is caught.
2-5 The spy fails to gather any information.
6-15 Specifically who they met, but not what was discussed.
16+ Who they met with and information on the tone of their conversation, but no target information (eg "a marriage agreement was reached", "Plans for war were discussed", "Trade was discussed", "Some plot was being discussed")
Natural 20 only: A vague target location is learned (eg "a marriage agreement with a Reach house was reached", "Plans for war in the Riverlands were discussed", "A plot in King's Landing was discussed")
The reason I'm suggesting a degree more vague than the proposal suggests is because it gives only a general idea of the intention, even with a perfect roll. The absolute best information you'll get is that the Tyrells are looking at marriage in the Reach, when the whole truth is that they're actually looking to prevent a marriage happening somewhere in the Reach, or that the Lannisters are preparing for war, when the whole truth is they're making ready to march to their allies aid should the Starks make the first move, or that there's some subterfuge going on in King's Landing, when the whole truth is Lord Footly is plotting to murder the Master of Laws. Even then that's a natural 20, most of the time you'll only get "Lord Footly went to Highgarden to discuss marriage": it might not even have been with the Tyrells.
People threw their toys out the pram when a good spy roll meant their character was conclusively revealed to be specifically plotting to murder specifically the Master of Laws specifically because he was an ally of the Tyrells. That is unreasonably specific and since we can't keep OOC and IC 100% apart it's unreasonably powerful: given the chance people will have their characters believe completely the OOC-known truth because they themselves know what the truth is and can't stomach having their characters not be shrewd detectives who can see the truth through all the haze. I've seen it happen several times, I've only ever dropped characters in anger once and it was because of that behaviour. Very few people will willingly make their characters select the wrong answer if they think they can get away with selecting the right one, no matter how tenuous the truth looks or how much evidence seems to support the lie.
As such I propose making the results far more vague so that spying becomes only a pointer, not an answer. Spies tell you the Lannisters are talking war: that sets your suspicion, allows you to look at it further, maybe lets you warn whoever you think the likely target is (from other IC information) that you have it on trustworthy authority that the Westerlands is considering the military option. There should not, by spying, be any way to gain any appreciable specifics about a plot, in my opinion.
This will be a Poll with four options
1. Original unmodified proposal I wrote up
2. Original Proposal with Poach's change
3. No Spying is dumb never again
4. I don't care do what you want
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by ficenzi
